DUBLIN – A fiercely debated, nine-year investigation into Ireland's Roman Catholic-run institutions says priests and nuns terrorized thousands of boys and girls in workhouse-style schools for decades — and government inspectors failed to stop the chronic beatings, rapes and humiliation.
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But the commission said its fact-finding — which included unearthing decades-old church files, chiefly stored in the Vatican, on scores of unreported abuse cases from Ireland's industrial schools — demonstrated that officials understood exactly what was at stake: their own reputations.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse)
And the Catholic Church says LGBT people are immoral and sinful. Even the Vatican knew about this. They stored the damaging files.
Read the entire article. It's shocking.
Julie
The commission dismissed as implausible a central defense of the religious orders — that, in bygone days, people did not recognize the sexual abuse of a child as a criminal offense, but rather as a sin that required repentance.
In their testimony, religious orders typically cited this opinion as the principal reason why sex-predator priests and brothers were sheltered within the system and moved to new posts where they could still maintain daily contact with children.
It cited numerous examples where school managers told police about child abusers who were not church officials — but never did this when one of their own had committed the crime.
All of that, including the paragraph that Julie quoted that would have followed the first two, would be laughable if it weren't so despicable.
Institutional culture seems to be the same all over, "we didn't know, and even if we did we were not as bright as we are now." And then to top it all off, not even an apology, just the demand that no names of any perps ever be revealed or the actual reports ever released if the evidence was to be seen.
"Organized religion" indeed. Are we to think that even deity demands sex with children?
*stews with barely concealed loathing for 'religion'*
I think jesus was a great guy, but if he could see what his 'followers' have done...
This irks me something fierce. I almost go blind with rage when ever I hear of a child being abused by a person in a "sacred" office. Let the "holy man" play with the children all he wants after all he's celibate so he would never hurt them but oh my god don't let the GLBT person live any closer then 500 yards from the school! Idiots....
Religion isn't what did this, human beings are.
And amongst human beings there are people capable of horrible things.
And amongst human beings the "us versus them" mentality that is in our nature can lead to horrible men being protected, cause they're one of us, not them.
And so, human beings do horrible things, and cover and protect those they consider their own, even when they do horrible things.
The bible ain't got nothing to do with it.
I am not suprised! These kind of things need publicity and also justice but Ireland is so near of being Roman catholic theocracy I would not probably happen.
Thats the Irish and this is why I hate all religions.
Jay
Quote from: DarkLady on May 20, 2009, 03:21:47 PM
I am not suprised! These kind of things need publicity and also justice but Ireland is so near of being Roman catholic theocracy I would not probably happen.
Much less so now than even 10 years ago. 10 years ago the study never would have been done at all, and wasn't. Things have changed in Eire as evidenced by the report. That they haven't changed 180 degress? Well, neither have many other countries in 10 years. :)
Quote from: Miniar on May 20, 2009, 11:36:18 AM
Religion isn't what did this, human beings are.
And amongst human beings there are people capable of horrible things.
And amongst human beings the "us versus them" mentality that is in our nature can lead to horrible men being protected, cause they're one of us, not them.
And so, human beings do horrible things, and cover and protect those they consider their own, even when they do horrible things.
The bible ain't got nothing to do with it.
Human beings define their religion by deciding what's acceptable and what's not. The haters, the fear mongerers, the phobes, all take what was intended to be good and abuse it for their own benefit. Then they tell you it's God's will.
I saw a special on LOGO where they interviewed a minister who preached hatred toward gays. When asked about a young gay man in the area who had recently been brutally murdered because he was gay, he said it was the parent's fault. If they had taught their son the way of the Lord he would have learned that being gay was wrong. Then he went on to add the murdered young man was in hell and anyone who does what he did will end up there too and they will all be screaming at each other for eternity. If you read this minister's eyes you'd see seething hatred.
And he claimed to be a man of God.
Yes, human beings can be evil and it's up to us to recognize who is and who isn't and ignore their self proclaimed identity, the words they spew out or the cloaks they wear.
Beware of false prophets. I see a lot of them in today's religions.
Julie
That's too bad. Horrors have always been committed in the name of religion by peeps that have got agendas other than the love of their god.
Quote from: Miniar on May 20, 2009, 11:36:18 AM
The bible ain't got nothing to do with it.
except when someone uses it to bang you in the head.
The bible ain't got nothing to do with it.
Ummm, SPARE THE ROD AND SPOIL THE CHILD? That didn't exactly come out of Darwin.
Or, specifically, He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes (Proverbs 13:24)
I think this is the kind of thing that happens any time any group has absolute power to use in an unsupervised way. It matters not if it is a religious or secular organization. If there is no accountability, there is no end to the possible abuses that can happen. And no, this is not the essence of Christianity. It is an abuse of power. I contrast this to the Jesus who always took time for the children, as told in Luke 18:16
"But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these."
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
2 Kings 2:23-24 (New International Version)
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
Not that I blame him, I wish I could call down bears from time to time myself.
Quote from: tekla on May 25, 2009, 09:32:47 AM
2 Kings 2:23-24 (New International Version)
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
Not that I blame him, I wish I could call down bears from time to time myself.
Precisely why I am getting hair transplants.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
If we're going into bible-verse combat with conservative FundeVangelist, Dominionist-sympathizer types, it would do well (and be funnier than snot) to limit the available verses to New Testament only. Not that they couldn't find passages that defend their positions, but it wouldn't be as easy as quoting Leviticus >:-)
Quote from: Karen on May 25, 2009, 01:06:24 PM
If we're going into bible-verse combat with conservative FundeVangelist, Dominionist-sympathizer types, it would do well (and be funnier than snot) to limit the available verses to New Testament only. Not that they couldn't find passages that defend their positions, but it wouldn't be as easy as quoting Leviticus >:-)
I assure you I could do that, but do know that here we are talking about Catholics, not quite the same animal as the others you lumped in with them. In general they do not get along with the Fundamentalists, though IMHO they share quite a lot. Another thing, this has actually been going in on for centuries. So why are we surprised? I know of some wonderful Catholic people, some here on this board. But institutional corruption abounds. I very seriously doubt that they are the overwhelming majority of conservative Christians, or Christians of any stripe would even come close to endorsing this behavior.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Cindi Jones showed me a wonderful movie while I was visiting with her:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn3.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AeG0_F_6u6q5SeM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fshillpages.com%2Fmovies%2Fdogma1999dvd.jpg&hash=23bce2885eb9f54ec04bc93e0502c2dd9e493ce5)
She had to provide running commentary as the plot depended on an understanding of Catholicism's extra-biblical doctrines of hierarchies of angels, demons, and rules on how it all works.
BTW, the Catholic Church actually saved indigenous natives of 'the New World'. The pope at that time declared the 'indians' had souls, and could thus be saved.
Protestantism left it pretty much up to each individual christian whether the natives were human or not, and so the natives were at the mercy of any hater they found the misfortune to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with.
=K
Quote from: Karen on May 25, 2009, 02:01:21 PM
Cindi Jones showed me a wonderful movie while I was visiting with her:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn3.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AeG0_F_6u6q5SeM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fshillpages.com%2Fmovies%2Fdogma1999dvd.jpg&hash=23bce2885eb9f54ec04bc93e0502c2dd9e493ce5)
She had to provide running commentary as the plot depended on an understanding of Catholicism's extra-biblical doctrines of hierarchies of angels, demons, and rules on how it all works.
=K
I did love the excremental though! And the thirteenth apostle, Rufus.
And the blessed driver! Or was it an iron, I don't golf. I do not like any other of their other movies, but DOGMA always puts me in stitches.
And in it's own way, very touching.
-Sandy
The same thing happened here in the US. The people who were abused should get justice AND the abusers NAMED. Leave no stone unturned. God knows how many families are affected by this.
Gennee
:(