That's what I am now. I'm the Dirty secret.
Let me explain my living situation. I have a son who is going to be four in August. I have two step daughters that I have raised since one was 6 mos old and the other was 4 years old. They are now 10 and 14, so I've been around them for a while. I'm also still currently married although its more like a partnership of sorts. She and I also work for the same company.
My spouse/wife/partner envisions my transition in that, I leave the house, the city, the state and travel 1500 miles away to Oregon and be with my mom and transition with her so the kids won't ever know and no questions would ever have to be asked. Nobody at work would know anything except a few that know about me and those that don't would be told I just left. Lori would then return as the "Aunt" or something and her girls would never know about me. My son would just know that Daddy left and Daddy's sister showed up to help take care of him.
My wife clearly does not want to deal with the issue or have to exert any effort into it, support it, or face the public onslaught we are sure to face. On one hand she knows I'm TS and knows how hard it must be on me but on the flip hand she wants to do what the rest of society does and that is cast us to the freak show and be done with me until I'm done cooking. If I don't pass or fail to look like a woman I can pretty much promise she wouldn't step foot in the same mega mall as me even if we were to enter opposite ends. So mentally she understands and knows I'm born this way, on the other hand "It sucks to be you. You are on your own."
How many of her fears are unfounded?
True we live in Fort Worth Texas and there are plenty of Baptists down here ready to quote scripture and save me. Her friend seems to know that according to the bible, only those born with both penis and vagina's are true transsexuals and are born that way. I was not born this way but became this way because of my abusive childhood. If I would just find Jesus Christ in my heart I would be cured and could give all my pain to him and be the man I was born to be.
So now I'm the Dirty little secret that needs to just leave, disappear and come back when all the transition is done. Leave as Daddy come back the Aunt if I want to continue in their lives.
Sounds like a simple plan and spares them all the hassle of dealing with somebody going through transition. On the other hand there is no way in hell enough money for this. I seriously doubt I'll find a job in Oregon making what I make now. Their unemployment is the absolute pits. Then to be the ripe age of 41, a transsexual who looks like a 1/3rd baked unleavened gooey centered flat bread, and unskilled as a woman, it would be much harder. I wouldn't know anybody and I would be terribly missing the kids.
I just feel like a freak being forced out of house, home, job because I have this stupid problem that's my choice to deal with and I have to face the music alone.
Yes, go away to trans camp and when I'm done come back a woman and reinstate myself into their lives as somebody else. Just not her daughters. I will be completely shut off and isolated from them and that will be that.
You can't fool all the people all the time. I'm sure your kids will know it sooner or later.
My advice:
Tell your kids that you're transitioning, move out, and file for divorce.
Edit: Move, but i didn't mean, like, 1500 miles away from the life you have now.
Sad, to read your story. But it happens so often. This is one reason why I really hate Fundamentalists (in all religions).
What is wrong with you? Nothing!
God create you this way, and I guess, he thought a lot about it before he did it. If they don't like it,they should blame GOD, not you!!!
You live in Texas? Do you know the MCC (I guess in Austin)? Mel White is a gay pastor, know a lot of scriptures, and can be a help. But he live in Virginia. At this side you can find his email-address:
http://www.melwhite.org/ (http://www.melwhite.org/)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ctmccfth/id4.html (http://home.earthlink.net/~ctmccfth/id4.html) (MCC in Texas)
And what kind of trauma will that do to the kids when Daddy walks out of their lives and never contacts them again? ::) >:( It's one thing if you want to move to another state and start over with job, friends etc. But do NOT do that to your kids. It will be far better for them if they know the truth.
In a legal sense it's called 'abandonment' and you could lose the ability to ever have contact with your kids again, and still have to pay all their bills. What's more the employment deal in Oregon is the second worse in the US after Mich, which at least can blame theirs on the auto industry.
Quote from: Jamie-o on May 23, 2009, 01:52:51 PM
And what kind of trauma will that do to the kids when Daddy walks out of their lives and never contacts them again? ::) >:( It's one thing if you want to move to another state and start over with job, friends etc. But do NOT do that to your kids. It will be far better for them if they know the truth.
This was my first thought as well.
It's okay to abandon your kid, but don't tell hers you changed sex? And what happens they they start asking about being lesbians, will the wife run from that was well.
I am betting divorce papers will be filed before you come back at which point you have a child who feels completely abandoned. I wouldn't expect your son to forgive you.
Your wife needs to be with you, or out of it entirely. Splitting your family while you transition is not going to go the way you think. Also, does she think it will be a period of only a couple months? As Tekla said, eventually they will figure it out.
If you have to move, move, but splitting up the family? Split it with a divorce before you try this scheme. It won't work.
If you leave your job voluntarily, you won't even get unemployment.
Abandon the kids, then come back and lie to them. That's some kind of plan. I sincerely doubt the "new aunt" plan will fool the kids for one minute.
Sailors face a ship INTO the storm. That's always the best solution for us too. Be honest, be brave, deal with what comes up and don't fret what MIGHT come up.
Quote from: Lori on May 23, 2009, 01:25:17 PM
That's what I am now. I'm the Dirty secret.
...
My wife clearly does not want to deal with the issue or have to exert any effort into it, support it, or face the public onslaught we are sure to face. On one hand she knows I'm TS and knows how hard it must be on me but on the flip hand she wants to do what the rest of society does and that is cast us to the freak show and be done with me until I'm done cooking. If I don't pass or fail to look like a woman I can pretty much promise she wouldn't step foot in the same mega mall as me even if we were to enter opposite ends. So mentally she understands and knows I'm born this way, on the other hand "It sucks to be you. You are on your own."
How many of her fears are unfounded?
Lori these are her fears and she is entitled to them. This is your problem not hers or the children's and she does not have to deal with them if she chooses not too.
Yep when families are concerned it can be heart breaking, I know from experience. I would never force my children to accept me or understand me, just hope that in time they will come to want to know about you.
-={LR}=-
This is your problem not hers or the children's
If you have kids, that's a responsibility that you can't run away from, and it is going to be a problem for them. Remember, if you stick your wing-wang in some girls hoo-haw, (or vice-versa) then you have to take responsibility for that.
And you can't just walk away from it. No matter what you do, that will haunt you - and those kids - all their lives.
Lori along with all the other good advice that has been given you, it seems to me that your wife is sorely lacking in information like most of the general public.
Have you a Therapist that she can talk to about all the issues. I think a lot more talking needs to be done and different solution came up with to handle this. Her plan is a bad plan, no ifs or buts about it. Hugs
~Wendy~
Quote from: Wendy C on May 23, 2009, 06:06:51 PM
Lori along with all the other good advice that has been given you, it seems to me that your wife is sorely lacking in information like most of the general public.
Have you a Therapist that she can talk to about all the issues. I think a lot more talking needs to be done and different solution came up with to handle this. Her plan is a bad plan, no ifs or buts about it. Hugs
~Wendy~
I don't want to seem rude but why on earth does the wife have to seek the help of a therapy to get her through this, she didn't ask for this.
-={LR}=-
Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 06:28:58 PM
I don't want to seem rude but why on earth does the wife have to seek the help of a therapy to get her through this, she didn't ask for this.
-={LR}=-
Because a gender therapist can help her understand the reality of the situation so that she can make informed decisions about her family. Like it or not, she's married to a TS. She has a child with a TS. She may not have made the initial decision to do so, but that is what life has dealt her, so she's going to have to deal with it one way or another. Better to deal with it with all the facts, rather than a bunch of mis-information.
Quote from: Jamie-o on May 23, 2009, 07:35:13 PM
Because a gender therapist can help her understand the reality of the situation so that she can make informed decisions about her family. Like it or not, she's married to a TS. She has a child with a TS. She may not have made the initial decision to do so, but that is what life has dealt her, so she's going to have to deal with it one way or another. Better to deal with it with all the facts, rather than a bunch of mis-information.
I beg to differ if I may...
My wife married a man, and had children with a man. I would doubt that she would have married me had she known I was TS. And yes I realize that being TS may have manifested over time but that doesn't change the fact that she married a man.
I find it incredibly selfish of us to expect everyone to adjust to us, have to sacrifice for us, and to support us, when they didn't ask to be put in that situation. Yes it's grand when wives do, but please don't expect it.
-=(LR}=-
I do see your point, and I agree that the situation really is not fair to the people who get caught up in it with no choice in the matter. And if it were just her, I'd say she has every right to just turn around and walk away.
But because there are kids in the picture - which she did choose to have, for better or worse, not knowing what the future might bring - she owes it to them to do the research and make an informed choice, rather than a choice based solely on fear and assumptions. It's sort of like, if she were diagnosed with early-onset Alzheimer's, let's say. She would owe it to them to find out what her prognosis actually was, what the treatments were, how long she would be able to keep her cognitive functions, and to what degree they would likely become impaired before making the decision to ship the kids off to live with Grandma. It might not make a difference in her final decision, but at least her kids will know that she made every effort to make the right one.
Also, they are Lori's kids, too. (One biologically, the other two emotionally.) Once you've decided to have kids with someone, the two of you are linked for life. It isn't fair to the kids to declare that they will never see their dad again when there are other choices. Both of them owe it to the kids to do anything in their power to make this the least traumatic event possible for them. And that, again, means making informed decisions.
Now, one could argue that the most fair thing for the kids is for Lori (or any TS parent) not to transition. But in my opinion, having a miserable parent isn't any better for kids than having a TS parent. It's the same as when parents get divorced. Divorce is tough on kids, but so is living in a household where their parents constantly argue, or can't stand the sight of one another, or where one abuses the other.
I gather from your other posts that at one time you made the decision to walk away. And maybe the situation in your life dictated that that was the best course of action for everyone involved. I don't know you or your family or what the circumstances were, so I would never criticize you for that choice. We can't control other people, and sometimes it's better to walk away than to pull the children in two.
But I do believe that when both parents can approach any difficult experience with an open mind, and can work together civilly, if not amicably, then that puts a lot less stress on the children, and can only be better for them in the long run.
To quote Yogi Berra "Its like deja-vu all over again".
I just watched this scenario play out elsewhere. Is the SO being selfish? Is the TS being selfish? What about the kids? The only certainty here is that given the current plan everyone is going to lose. So maybe its time to take a step back to see what can be done..
Two separate issues as I see it:
1. Whats best for the children?
2. Whats "fair" for the adults involved?
Seems like a double standard at play here. Ok, our wives married a man, and ended up with less than they were promised (Im not even going to addressed being considered "less" because of being TS). They didnt ask for it... so in effect they feel lied to, and wonder what else we are hiding...
Does anyone really expect us to believe that lying to the children justifies being lied to? How does that really compute? Lori, I dont see you asking for permission or forgiveness or even justification for how things came to be. You just want to be with her kids and pursue your path. Yes, kids, plural. Biology not-withstanding, if you raise them and love them, it makes little difference who the sperm donor was. They are your kids.
If we as TS are to be taken to task for being dishonest or not fulfilling some promise that started with "I do", fine. Lets leave that between the adults. But for the kids sake, a painful and difficult truth is far better than feeling lied to, or worse, abandoned. Not saying its going to be easy... hell, its gonna be rough all the way around.
Lori, I really feel for you. This is so heart wrenching it defies words. I cant, and wouldnt presume to advise what you should do WRT your wife and your marriage. All I can say is think about whats best for your son and daughters. No matter whats happened in the past, everyone is going have their lives changed forever. Even if you choose to abandon your transition, that resentment will live on as well.
Please please talk to a therapist who can help you work through this. Someone who is not connected to anyone in your community and who can see things without conflict of interest or prejudice. There are many lives here that are affected and will be affected by the decisions you and your wife make now.
Insofar as question #2? This is such an emotional and anguished filled question that cant be answered with a one sided perspective. I watched this very subject on another site end up fracturing some of the long time members, and watched friendships go right into the crapper. I would so hate to see that play out again, as it caused so much pain that might have been otherwise avoided. And truth be told, no matter what any of us think, in the end its between you, Lori and your wife.
If you have to label this a dirty secret, its already flawed. Reconsider your choices. I wish you only the best, and that you should find your peace of mind in whatever road or path you choose.
I've sat this one out too long.
First lets clear up the spouse thing. She knew I dressed up and took hormones BEFORE we were married in 2001. I'd only micro dose and do them for a short period of time to get by. At one time she painted my nails and bought my clothes. She has given me shots. Those were even after our son was born. I won't say she wasn't supportive. Just those times I was not ready to full on transition. Now...we have a son and she doesn't want to be a part of it. I don't blame her. I've been on and off trying to transition on on and off HRT I don't know how many times.
I truly and honestly had no idea I was TS until I was diagnosed as one sometime at the beginning of 2004. Even though I've had thoughts and issues since I was 5 or 6 years old. I thought I could fight it off. I never dreamed I would have to transition. I didn't know it would get worse and worse until I was to the point of despair and had lost all hope. I thought I could be different. I mean nobody really knows how bad it gets until they get there. I can't tell somebody else they will end up like me when they turn 41. Seems like that is the time period when everything changes.
The year my son was conceived, was a great year. Almost no GID at the forefront. Moments of weakness here and there but nothing like it is today.
I wear bra and panties daily. I don't have Sudo boobs, but real boobs. I need to be restrained. Tight fighting sports bra with no cups, t-shirt and a thick dark shirt with two breast pockets. Pair of Jeans, and size 8.5 boots from the ladies dept at Cabela's. That is my daily attire.
I'm on full reg of HRT. I don't blame my wife. I wouldn't blame her if she cut my throat in my sleep. I'd be f'n pissed too. I am pissed at me at times too. I wouldn't wish this ->-bleeped-<- on my worst enemy.
I'm lost, scared, and I don't know what to do. I feel better on HRT than I do off of it. I don't want to have to stop again. I really don't know what to do at this point. Things always change so I cannot believe this is written in stone. I just have to wait a while and keep losing the weight and keep taking the stuff and letting the chips fall where they may. I don't have any grandeur of delusions as to having the perfect transition. In fact, I'm pretty sure this one is going to hurt.
I have other issues we have Identified that are true issues. One is Paranoid Personality Disorder. There is no way in hell somebody can transition with that hanging over them. I have to fix that. I'm also a cutter. I keep it to the bottoms of my feet though. I hack them up and pick them to the point of where I'm bleeding and hobbled. Its a form of C-PTSD (Complex Post Traumatic Stress disorder) It's in my intro why I'm so f'd up. I have to fix the cutting as well.
I'm usually seen limping and put it off as cramps from riding my bike. Some days are worse than others. Right now I can stand and actually shower and get them wet without cringing. Other days I don't touch them. Maybe for a couple of weeks. Then, sometimes I get zoned out and literally destroy the bottoms of my feet.
I have to fix the paranoia. Its a major issue. My wife has plenty of reasons to leave. But I treat her well, take care of her and treat her and my kids well. I'm dependable and even though it bugs her that I'm constantly in contact with her because I'm paranoid, she has not left.
She cannot be married to a woman. Her choice. She's straight. She married a man. If I change that, then she will leave. She has every right to do so.
I question the dirty secret and being chicken ->-bleeped-<- about everybody knowing. That is not reality.
Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 06:28:58 PM
I don't want to seem rude but why on earth does the wife have to seek the help of a therapy to get her through this, she didn't ask for this.
-={LR}=-
"For better or worse, til' death do us part", that was what she asked for.
A therapist can give her examples of those who have gone before and made it through okay. A therapist can offer advice on how and when to tell the children. Probably a whole lot more as well.
The biggest reason though is that she is in denial about how this will effect her family. This is her way of making it go away.
Quote from: Leslie Ann on May 23, 2009, 09:28:31 PM
"For better or worse, til' death do us part", that was what she asked for.
A therapist can give her examples of those who have gone before and made it through okay. A therapist can offer advice on how and when to tell the children. Probably a whole lot more as well.
The biggest reason though is that she is in denial about how this will effect her family. This is her way of making it go away.
I'm sorry but "For better or worse" is an antiquated notion. Additionally I doubt very much that there are many therapists out there who have had professional experience with this type of situation, there are some of course.
Also before I go further I will apologize to Lori for speaking about her family in front of her so to speak.
This staying together for the children's sake is both misguided and ill advised if one or both of their parents can't or don't want to live together anymore. Children are not blind and are better raised in a loving caring relationship than a relationship of convenience.
-={LR}=-
Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 10:05:57 PM
Also before I go further I will apologize to Lori for speaking about his family in front of her so to speak."
Huh? Can you clarify that sentence for us, LR?
Quote from: MeghanAndrews on May 23, 2009, 10:34:49 PM"Also before I go further I will apologize to Lori for speaking about his family in front of her so to speak."
Huh? Can you clarify that sentence for us, LR?
Firstly I corrected the word "His" to "Her" in the original sentence and secondly It was obvious to me that Lori is reading these posts as we write them. It's as if you and I were talking about her with her standing right there; very rude in normal circumstances.
-={LR}=-
Oh, ok. It was the his/her thing, I thought I just missed something. Lori is my sis, I always talk about her in third person. Lol, love ya Lori :)
My situation is a bit similiar, Lori....but I agree totally with Ladyrider regarding wives. Although, I told my wife (at least about dressing) soon after we were married, I kept it a secret for most of our marriage...until a year and a half ago. Her reaction was not positive, which is pretty much par for the course. But, I knew from my earliest memories that I was different...and, that I wanted to be a girl. I suspect you did as well. I didn't need to be diagnosed as trans. I just needed to be at the point in my life where the desire to transition overcame the fear.
Should my wife accept and understand it? Is it fair to her to accept the fact that I have changed? But, don't I have the right to be happy?
At this point, we are together....as sisters. We enjoy our relationship except for the romance part. Neither of us are attracted to women. She is a remarkable person, but, the exception. She is definitely not ecstatic about my change, and would prefer a husband, but at present is staying. Most wives choose to leave, and it doesn't make them selfish, or unreasonable. It's their decision, just like transitioning is ours. Being trans is not a choice, but transitioning is. Be prepared for the consequences either way, but, hoping your current action plan will work seems remote at best.
Luckily my children are grown, and totally accepting. It took my grandchildren (7 & 5) about 30 minutes to accept me. I didn't have as much luck with my old friends, lost most of them.
Incidentally, I'm 58, and have been on hormones for almost a year, and full time since last Sept. I honestly have never been as happy as I am now. Whatever you decide, be true to yourself.
Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 10:45:49 PM
Firstly I corrected the word "His" to "Her" in the original sentence and secondly It was obvious to me that Lori is reading these posts as we write them. It's as if you and I were talking about her with her standing right there; very rude in normal circumstances.
-={LR}=-
I leave the browser open. I don't live in the threads I write. It may show I'm online and viewing the thread but I have 12 open windows for Firefox. I also have three kids. I'm not always there. I don't mean to be rude. I guess I could close that window and come back to it when I'm actually going to read the threads. But I won't. Not for you or anybody.
Get a lawyer, a good one, and talk to them before you do anything. If you think the good people of Fort Worth are conservative, wait till you meet one of the judges there. If you just move you are setting yourself up for financial ruin.
Quote from: Lori on May 23, 2009, 11:11:12 PM
I leave the browser open. I don't live in the threads I write. It may show I'm online and viewing the thread but I have 12 open windows for Firefox. I also have three kids. I'm not always there. I don't mean to be rude. I guess I could close that window and come back to it when I'm actually going to read the threads. But I won't. Not for you or anybody.
I think you may have misunderstood what I said Lori... I meant it was rude of me to be talking about you when you are standing right there. Sorry for the confusion.
-={LR}=-
Quote from: tekla on May 23, 2009, 11:13:09 PM
Get a lawyer, a good one, and talk to them before you do anything. If you think the good people of Fort Worth are conservative, wait till you meet one of the judges there. If you just move you are setting yourself up for financial ruin.
Lore, tekla's pretty right about that. And about setting yourself up for the abandonment charge as well.
As ever in TX it's gonna be the luck of the draw with the judge you get that's gonna decide, provided you don't leave until she physically moves you out, or has the FWPD do it.
Had a friend who did what your wife is suggesting. Her life has been hell for the past few years in trying to get unsupervised visitation with her child.
The situation with your step-children may well be decided differently especially if you didn't adopt them. Your wife may be able to keep you from all contact with them altogether no matter who the judge is.
But you need real life legal counsel to make an informed choice. And yes, no matter what else you feel or think about yourself, you need to do what you can to protect your interest at least in terms of your son. Moving to Oregon w/o a word to the children or some hard evidence that your wife suggested it and encouraged it and demanded it (and if she signs a notarized document to that effect she's crazy) is going to pretty much clinch the abandonment thing.
So get a real attorney, set aside whatever self-loathing and guilt you have in this matter and protect yourself at a minimum.
Like LR my usual stance is to understand the wife's position more than the TS's position. Since you're a friend that's harder to do without some equivocation, Lori. :) You should protect yourself and the best way will be with a divorce atty, preferably a really good one. I know, that costs. But if you want at least the relationship with your son then you better do that.
:icon_hug: Wishing all five of you the smoothest and most positive outcome for all concerned.
N~
Lori,
You say that you had no idea you were TS prior to 2004 which suggests that your spouse had no idea either. Maybe, in her mind, she thought you just had a crossdressing fetish and nothing more?
Honestly, as someone who had no experience of TS issues prior to my current relationship, I find this a bit odd given that you were taking hormones, albeit in tiny doses, prior to marriage with the support of your partner and now spouse. If my partner was taking hormones, I'd definitely interpret that as a positive indication of transexuality. I don't find it credible that one would know and support a partner taking hormones without ever thinking "hang on, this is more than a bloke who enjoys donning a pair of knickers for a thrill".
On the one hand, I would say that your spouse appears to have known and accepted your TS tendencies prior to marriage and therefore has a moral obligation to work through the situation as best as she can, without seeking to amputate you from her life or that of your children.
On the other hand, if you yourself claim you had no idea that you were TS prior to 2004, then that suggests there is no reasonable reason for expecting your spouse to have any obligation to accept or work through this with you - aside from trying to minimize the impact on your children but that's for their benefit, not for you or your spouse.
It's a very unfortunate situation. You can certainly invite your spouse to talk this through, in the company of a relevent therapist if possible. I would certainly explore how you both truly interpreted your pre-marital tendencies to be, in case that helps with the adjustment to the current situation.
Good luck.
Quote from: teklaGet a lawyer, a good one, and talk to them before you do anything.
If I may add something... its important for your own peace of mind that you dont view getting legal advice as firing a shot across the bough. Unfortunately many view seeking an attorney as a race to effectively "raise shields" before firing a volley of photon torpedoes. The challenge of course is to find a compentant and non-emotional attorney who is more interested in dispensing advice than in gaining a new client. I cannot stress in strong enough terms you need to protect your rights as a parent. Viewed from that vantage point you will find the strength to do what you need to legally without feeling like you betrayed your wife by running for shelter first.
My experience lies strictly with the New York state family court system, probably one of the most dysfunctional and corrupt legal entities in the nation. If Texas is anything like New York, you will need all of the protection you can get.
I wish you godspeed on this difficult journey...
Keep in mind that about the only place women rule in the American system is in family court and divorce court, and in those two places, they come about as close to absolute as can happen. Moreover, judges tend to represent (and FTR I think its a good thing, not a bad thing) the most conservative aspects of a community, not the liberal (if there even is such a thing in Fort Worth) aspects.
It's possible the two of you might find some sort of reconciliation, just like it might be possible that John and George will rise from the dead and reunite the Beatles. But don't bet on it. She wants you gone, and suggested a way that is 100% in her best interests in terms of finances and custody, and 100% the exact other way for you.
And may I add...
When the lawyers get involved be prepared to rapidly loose control of things. FWIW my ex and I went the "Do it yourself" route, cost - $750, result an amicable split and a happy ending.
-={LR}=-
Ok, after reading Stacy and LR I'm going to qualify again. Get a good attorney for advice. Don't hire one for the divorce and resist any attempt to have yourself pushed into getting a divorce by said atty.
You do need to know what you could face legally though.
N~
I disagree I don't think your wife is handling the situation right at all. Yes I am young and don't know all the complications a real relationship has. For your wife to do what she is doing and to justify it by saying "I never asked for this" is just being an ->-bleeped-<- all around. I don't mean to judge but that is how it sounds. I was born with CP and no one asked for it, does that mean that if my parents wanted to, they could have given me up because it isn't the healthy baby I seemed at first? No one asks for half the crap they get in life does that make it ok for us to run from or discard what we did not "ask for?" When you marry someone you share all responsibility and hardship. You didn't lie, you yourself said you didn't know you had gender dysphoria, so how can someone hold it against you? You said she helped give you hormone shots and helped you in dressing up. So basically her philosophy was as long as your ->-bleeped-<- is our private little secret away from reality. Why does she get to call the shots about what has to happen with you and your son? She wasn't lied to at allm not really. It's not like you knew about yourself and married her, then passed yourself off as a man. You shouldn't blame your other problems like your paranoia or your cutting as reasons that she is right and that you are the absolute cause of all that is wrong. Sorry for being judgmental. You blame yourself when it isn't your fault at all.
Hugs!!!
Yeah, get a good lawyer for advice, but be prepared for the worst. As Margaret Mead would have it, 'better keep your powder dry' just in case the war breaks out.
Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 10:05:57 PM
I'm sorry but "For better or worse" is an antiquated notion. Additionally I doubt very much that there are many therapists out there who have had professional experience with this type of situation, there are some of course.
You don't think a gender therapist has had families think of this idea, or have children to deal with? My therapist has dealt with hundreds of TS patients. I would be very surprised if she has not dealt with similar. I'm not claiming one would have all the answers but would be a better guide than nothing.
As for antiquated notions, just because divorce is so easy today doesn't mean you have to jump right to it at the first sign of trouble.
Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 07:57:51 PM
I find it incredibly selfish of us to expect everyone to adjust to us, have to sacrifice for us, and to support us, when they didn't ask to be put in that situation. Yes it's grand when wives do, but please don't expect it.
-=(LR}=-
Relationships need compromise from both parties, not "my way or the highway". Why is it acceptable for the TS partner to be exiled from their children? They didn't ask to be in the situation either.
First of all, sweetie, you are neither dirty, nor is this a secret. Your wife knows and married you with this in mind. Now is this time to get yourself in the best shape you can. I agree with the posts about seeking legal advice. But for the immediate time you need to get Lori up and functioning well. Get out and begin to let Lori live. Else, why even bother to transition? In Texas, make her kick you out. And find a way to make her put that in writing. If not, she can and will take you to the cleaners.
Love you, sis. You are not alone in this.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Let me be a little more clear on the "Not Knowing I'm TS" before 2004. I was wrong. It was 2003. I double checked the dates. I apologize for any confusion this may cause.
I had never been diagnosed before then. I knew I had a problem. I had more clothes and shoes than many GG's at that time. I wore makeup constantly and since I was 6 years old I had crossed dressed.
I never had a label for what I was. I'm the type of person that lives day to day. I find reasons to live and keep going. I have as my wife will put it, "a cocktail of issues".
I know I've looked into the mirror and have said, "OMG you are FK'D up". I'd be in skirt, heels, dressed to the 9's knowing I was messed up. I've been to gay bars, lesbian bars, and some of the gayest areas of Dallas and loved it. I know its not normal behavior. When I was 10 I would go to the local grocery store in Denver and steal makeup to wear at night. That is not normal behaviour. I know that now. A crazy person doesn't really know they are crazy???
I had a really bad childhood. I don't think and act like many in society. I've been over beaten so many times when I was a child, I had to use to cold tile floor in the basement to ease the pain and bruising just to stand up and walk. I spent the first couple years of my life on the floor eating with the dogs. I'm not one to go and get help for personal issues. I try to deal with them. I'm in no way trusting, and even though I've had two diagnosises of my being TS I didn't listen and believe. I have been told that I would need HRT the rest of my life I'd end up dead or in a nut house yet I tempt fate and go on and off them, because I don't believe those that said it. I'm finding out really fast, being TS is not a joke. It is a real issue, a real problem and without my meds, I'm simply miserable.
Again, my first diagnosis was not until 2003. My wife was the one that figured it out. I was on hrt again from Mexico at that time. Self medicating. I went to Dr. Catherine Long over in Plano for GID therapy. At that time my chosen name was Cindy. She saw I had been self medicating and immediately sent me to an endo at SW Medical Center. That is also when I had a Karyotype done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karyotype (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karyotype)
It came back normal and that pretty much told me I was not TS. In my mind at that time. I wanted an excuse, a reason, a sympathy card to pull out and use for transitioning. Why? Because I know first hand how mean people are capable of being. I just didn't see doing it over what was in my head. What if I'm too messed up and wrong?
:icon_tears:
I don't want to have to deal with this. I just want to close my eyes and have it all go away. I don't want to have to divorce, or move out. I don't want to talk to a lawyer to find out what my "options are". I just want to get fixed. I've paid my dues in life.
Maybe I can be prescribed diazepam, thioridazine, or haloperidol by my Paranoid Personality Disorder therapist.
Lori,
My heart breaks for you, but unfortunately I think Lady Rider is right :(
You cannot force somebody (anybody) to accept you. You cannot force someone to go to therapy to understand. It is these truths that make many people choose to not transition ... It is those fears and realizations that have caused me to resist transitioning for many, many years ... and I still fear that my decisions will hurt my wife or cause her to leave me.
Only you can weigh the issues and decide what is the proper choice ... What will bring the highest level of happiness and fulfillment to your life, not necessarily what will cause the least pain.
Oh she has been to therapy with me. In fact she dragged me to the last one. You'd have to meet my wife. Nobody makes her do anything she doesn't want to do. She understands probably more so than I do. She KNOWS I'm trans. She will argue that fact with you. I think it just pisses her off I don't trust in the diagnosis. She understands how tough a decision to transition is and the fears and issues it brings. She knows better than most.
She knows I'm a diagnosed a TS on HRT but cannot make decisions for me. I'm on my own at deciding what to do. I've been back and forth so many times I flat wore her down. She's done with it. She is still allowing me to spend our money on HRT, hair and laser.
I'm not sure where I gave the impression that I wanted her to be forced into accepting my transition. She really wants what is best for me. What messes me up is the leaving the state thing. I'm like "WTF". I am to be cast out with the bath water and not allowed back until everything is done.
It makes me so sad and sick to my stomach. She's as afraid of what will happen to her kids being around a trans as I am about being one. She knows I'm no threat, its other people.
But realize I have Paranoid Personality Disorder. I have a host of fears. I'm pretty sure after 9 years with me those fears have bled over and I bet most are unfounded. But who wants to risk getting their kids involved with some bible wielding a-hole that interpreted it in their own way and is going to use it against us and have our children taken away from the sinner trans?
People are really passionate about gender and sex. Guys just don't do certain things. Girls can do whatever. But the guy doing this must mean I'm gay and a pedophile and its all about sex don't you know?
Goddamn Jerry Springer.
I have no doubt she will leave me. She won't be married to a woman. She is straight.
I don't know what to do. Just keep taking the stuff and wait for stuff to hit the fan. Once I get a grip on the other issues it may just clear the road. I don't know, for only time will tell.
Quote from: Lori on May 24, 2009, 01:46:00 PM
I'm not sure where I gave the impression that I wanted her to be forced into accepting my transition. She really wants what is best for me.
I didn't mean to imply you were wanting to force your wife to accept you. I was mearly stating a fact ... and probably, on some deeper level, voicing my concerns regarding my marriage.
I'm very sorry for your situation. If you do go away for your transition upon your return your children will figure things out. Children are very attent. If I were in a position where I must leave then return there would be no returning. My children would have a long distance relationship with their new Aunt. Probably things will work themselves out and everyone will be happier in the end. I wish you the best of luck.Hugs,Gen
I Have been reading and following this since you first posted. And my heart breaks for you, Lori, and your family.
My ex knew me when I tried to transition before. When we married she knew I was TS. And even though she knew she never understood what it meant. And it lead to so many fights that I lost count of the unhappy times. And we stayed together because of finances. No children, just the money.
It never got any better. We finally came to the last fight and we separated in the same house. We had 'Hall sex', if you understand that. If not PM me and I will explain. I don't wish to post it here.
But my point is that this will never go away, regardless of anything anyone will tell you. She is hurt because she fell in love with a 'man', married a 'man', had children by the 'man'. And now that 'man' is dying. Not so much in a physical sense, but in a psychological sense. You are still there, but you are not the same person she fell in love with. When people change, people adapt. But this is huge. And she can not adapt. She doesn't want to, period. It is a last stand for her. She is in survival mood. And I do not blame her in the least bit. She has every right to be pissed at you. But you are not the sole reason.
But you did not choose this, any more than you would have chosen cancer. It is just part of who you are. It seems to me that she is using the 'dirty little secret' to avoid facing the troubles that may occur. Your children will adapt very quickly to your transition and accept you, as long as you are there in their lives. Your wife needs to keep that in mind when thinking of the kids. The rest of the world that she is worried about can kiss off. If she stood up for you, with you and by you, they will back off.
Things can and will change. You and your family may face hard times, because of others. But you can and will overcome them, together. But if you just give up and leave, I will tell you in no uncertain terms, will be screwed without legal, really good legal advice.
Under no uncertain terms, leave and return as Aunt Lori. The kids will hate you forever, if you can even get back into their lives.
I don't envy you or your family. You face one of the hardest part of transitioning, in my mind. You and your wife must come to terms in order to survive together.
I am sorry if I sound uncaring, unfeeling, rude, crude or just a plain Bi**h. But you need to realize that you face something that will change your life, your wife's life and the children's life forever.
In another galaxy far far away, I told my 2nd ex wife of my plans to transition. She did not want my two boys around me and left the state. I never knew where they were at, but my older son finally contacted me to find out why I was not in his life. He hated me for not being there. He is slowly excepting me NOW, as his 'other Mother'. But he is still bitter about me not being there. And we are still not close. We chat in frequently.
My point, Don't just leave. You and your children will regret it of the rest of your lives. But you need to let Lori live. And the best of luck my dear Sister, for all of you.
Just My Humble Opinion,
Janet
To Janet and all...
My wife and I are very civil to each other. We really don't fight and we never yell. Its very calm and serene. My son in his 4 short years has never heard us yell or fight. We talk about things. Especially over a few glasses of wine.
I know leaving is a bad idea and I won't do it. There is no hall sex. No sex period to be honest with you. We still hug a bit and maybe a peck here and there but its more like girlfriends would do or sisters. We hug as two girls would. Light, delicate and fast. My tits really hurt so that's why.
I think we both know we are screwed and want it to last as long as possible for the kids. A divorce would be bad and life changing. I want them all to be able to stay in the house. That means I need a place to live. That's free. I can't pay for both. I'm not sure whats going to happen or what we are going to do. I hope the HRT I am on is mercifully quick or takes a really long time. I hope i can last a while longer or turn into a female over night.
Neither of us wants to deal with it. Neither of us wants the hassle and expense. We know its not going away and our time is limited. We only have small hope that dealing with my other issues will somehow ease my GID or clear the road to transition without delay.
We don't know. Its going to be a long summer.
Quote from: Ladyrider on May 23, 2009, 06:28:58 PM
I don't want to seem rude but why on earth does the wife have to seek the help of a therapy to get her through this, she didn't ask for this.
-={LR}=-
I would not normally respond to this but it struck a cord. LR, we each have differing opinions and I respect yours and I will endeavor to explain why I suggested a Therapist. Most therapist, including mine who has worked in the field of ->-bleeped-<- since the early 1980's does not limit herself to T's only. She also specializes in family matters and that is the crux of what I was pointing out. A lot of T's include their spouses in therapy because the Therapist can see both sides and offer solutions to problems that you or the SO might not be able to see. That is what they are there for.
The SO for example going through say, Al-Anon is not at fault either but yet the organization is there to help the SO understand and get through what is not "their fault".
Every transition is different, while similar in aspects they are never totally the same. I am still with my spouse after two years and while it has not always been a bed of roses, we co-exist as friends. Is she the blame or the cause of this or was this her fault? No, but she still has a stake in it all and if she has enough love and information and understanding, then the outcome will be different than taking an I don't care, I want out attitude.
I've seen too many other transitions and normal divorces where the wife will use to the children to her advantage to get even. In this they are at fault. None of us ever asked to be born this way either, all we can do is arm ourselves with knowledge at that was the my point. Hugs
~Wendy~
Quote from: Wendy C on May 26, 2009, 10:59:03 AM
I would not normally respond to this but it struck a cord. LR, we each have differing opinions and I respect yours and I will endeavor to explain why I suggested a Therapist. Most therapist, including mine who has worked in the field of ->-bleeped-<- since the early 1980's does not limit herself to T's only. She also specializes in family matters and that is the crux of what I was pointing out. A lot of T's include their spouses in therapy because the Therapist can see both sides and offer solutions to problems that you or the SO might not be able to see. That is what they are there for.
The SO for example going through say, Al-Anon is not at fault either but yet the organization is there to help the SO understand and get through what is not "their fault".
~Wendy~
One thing I am grateful for is she has been to Therapy with me and she knows its not my fault, yet I may as well be dying. Maybe in a way I am?
No Hon, you aren't dying, it does hurt like hell to think about losing one you love but in another sense you are just starting to live your life as you feel you should. I haven't found much of transitioning that hasn't been painful in the area of relationships but what I have found is comfort in being who I am and that makes a lot of life's other major problems much easier to work through. I honestly do hope you and she can work these issues out and it does sound as if she is willing to try. Just never give up your child nor your rights as a parent. Children are very resilient, can and do adapt to a parent being TS. Several of the girls I know on the boards are raising their children where the wife has left and doing very well at it.
Hugs Lori, hang in there Hon.
~Wendy~
Quote from: Wendy C on May 27, 2009, 07:42:41 PM
No Hon, you aren't dying, it does hurt like hell to think about losing one you love but in another sense you are just starting to live your life as you feel you should. I haven't found much of transitioning that hasn't been painful in the area of relationships but what I have found is comfort in being who I am and that makes a lot of life's other major problems much easier to work through. I honestly do hope you and she can work these issues out and it does sound as if she is willing to try. Just never give up your child nor your rights as a parent. Children are very resilient, can and do adapt to a parent being TS. Several of the girls I know on the boards are raising their children where the wife has left and doing very well at it.
Hugs Lori, hang in there Hon.
~Wendy~
In a way Daddy is dying. Her husband is dying and she is supposed to be friends of this bitch that replaced her son's dad and her husband?
Maybe in her eyes it is easier if I died? Maybe it is some weird form of love.
You say I must find comfort in the fact I will be myself. Is it a leap of faith?
Therein lies the problem. I have no confidence in my diagnosis. I know I'm TS, I just don't believe I'm ts at heart. So without that faith, I cannot trust in the fact that if I let one thing go, something else (being myself) will replace that pain with joy. What if I'm wrong?
Quote from: LoriYou say I must find comfort in the fact I will be myself. Is it a leap of faith?
Yes... and no. I was talking to a good friend on the phone a few nights ago, one of those heart-to-heart conversations... the ones that always occur at 2am. I was trying to describe the feeling of knowing in my heart what path I must take, and yet grappling with the fear of the unknown. I said to her that Ive never before had to deal with anything in my life where there was a point of no return...
The it hit me out of the blue.... like the answer to the sound of one hand clapping. That statement was not true.... we all take that leap of faith, and you have too... its called being a parent, bringing a child into the world.
In my case, my wife and I spent years battling infertility including hormones (both of us) and surgery (me). We were both told it was hopeless. The marriage was already falling apart. I guess we both let our guard down.... bang! Was 3 1/2 weeks later (her cycle), morning after an awful day of fighting, morning after I decided to call it quits on the marriage. She told me she missed her period. Just so you understand... you could time the atomic clock in Boulder CO to her cycle. She was pregnant...
Imagine a failed marriage and a kid on the way... I never was so afraid, so conflicted... for me it was a one way path, abortion was out of the question. And up until the moment I held my son, I could not imagine this forever life changing event that took place...
But thats just the point. From the moment I picked up my son,
literally, I was
never afraid again. Never felt any of the gut wrenching emotions I felt up until that moment...
And so I now look on transitioning... same flood of emotions to deal with... same kinds of fears and doubts, but after thinking about what happened, how my son came into this world... I gotta believe that there is that same peace that comes over like a shaft of warm sunlight that bathes you on a cold morning. When all the "what ifs" and "what will I do" questions are done, when you push on ahead to your destination... yeah, I suppose its a leap of faith. But tell me, do you still wonder about parenthood?
Believe me, I'm not saying its all rainbows and butterflies. I still have a swirl of crap running through my head. But what I took away from that phone call, what I learned is that we do survive the journeys we take and the tests we struggle with.
I gotta believe it... otherwise, how would early man/women have ever left the safety of the caves to build a civilization we know today?
I cry when I hold my son. I'm so sad for him. I didn't want to be a Daddy. Mine hates me. I love my son, I just don't want him to hate me. I fear that.
I've been through more with my son than I care to think. He's been through more in his short life than many have in a lifetime. If it wasn't for Scottish Rite hospital he would not be walking today. He's had three surgeries and was in casts for years. He's only 4. I love him and I'm sad for him. Its not fair to turn his world upside down because I cannot be a little bit stronger and not contain myself.
I cry for his daddy, whom he absolutely loves and adores. I feel so cold to him at times and draw his little body to mine and draw his happiness and strength from him just to stop the flow of tears I get from looking into his eyes.
He has such pretty eyes. He's so innocent and sweet. He deserves a daddy. He's paid his dues, life should be kind to him. Will people hate him because he has no daddy or a trans daddy?
What about his friends at school? Teachers?