Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Another Brutal Murder
Filed by: Tobi Hill-Meyer
June 19, 2009 6:00 PM

http://www.bilerico.com/2009/06/another_brutal_murder.php (http://www.bilerico.com/2009/06/another_brutal_murder.php)

Update: As pointed out in the comments below, the original source on this story has pulled it because they cannot verify that this is not a hoax.

-------------------------
the original source says http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8660 (http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8660)

There's another post about this going. It would be nice to see some fact-checking before this becomes "news" and makes the community look sensationalistic. A few blog posts and a chat room news item are not too believable IMHO. Hopefully it isn't true, but this story is spreading like wildfire. It's kind of crazy for a story to come out of a chat room and end up all over blogs with no verifiable sources. We'll see what happens. Hopefully it is a hoax.

I dug into this extensively. The event supposedly happened on the 17th of June. I have searched for the name, the state and murder, and just murder in general. I also checked the obituaries in the local newspapers of record. The only posts on this are unsourced or are based off of the initial unsourced post on the original forum. I am sorry people but with the description in the initial post, the news media would have been all over it. I doubt you would be able to turn on TV anywhere and not get inundated with the news of a horrific crime such as this. As such, my suggestion is to wait and see if it ever appears in the media, if it doesn't then most likely it's a faked death.

i've never seen the Angie Zapata case mentioned even slightly in my area--i found out about it through here.


we don't need this to be a hoax OR for real----NEITHER is good for us!!!

Quote from: The Only Warrior Princess Mekayla on June 19, 2009, 10:04:16 PM
I've never seen the Angie Zapata case mentioned even slightly in my area--i found out about it through here.

But you can find multiple news articles referencing her in a google news search. I can't find anything from media on this one.

Virginia is both sad and angry and cries out "Please say it isn't so!!!"  :'(

Also, the sledge hammer has been noted as a favored tool of torture and destruction among Neo Nazi hate groups  >:(

Before anyone misinterprets this as stating the people who did this were justified or I'm blaming the victim, I'm not.

I'm blaming her mother.  If your kid experienced death threats with enough merit for police to get involved, why the hell aren't you packing your kid up and moving away??

I kind of agree with Mister here...

I mean, if I had had tons of death threats against me or anyone connected to me, I sure as heck wouldn't let anyone go alone, on a bike, to the supermarket, at the very least!
Strength in numbers and all that.

I can assure eveyone reading this thread that this is NOT a hoax. There is an active police investigation ongoing with several suspects in mind which is why it's being kept out of the media.

To answer the statement that the mother is at fault. A little more than a month ago, her parents were involved in a horiffic traffic accident in which her father was killed and her mother permanantly crippled. Her mother was hardly in a position to take her anywhere.

Laura's Playground is a well respected transgender support site and to think that we would stoop so low as to invent such a trash story is unthinkable. We're not the Jerry Springer show, folks.

During some court litigation involving the traffic accident, a lawyer outed Raychel as being transsexual. It is suspected that some local youths decided to rid the world of this "Blight on humanity". As I said, though, this is still an ongoing investigation.

We at Laura's are heartsick over this and can only hope that the perpetrators of this horrendous crime are swiftly brought to justice. We appreciate any prayers and support during this time of tribulation.
May Raychel rest in peace.
Thank you for taking time to read this.

MaryEllen
Site Administrator
Laura's Playground

Friday, June 19, 2009
Is Empire State Proud Of A Trans Teen's Brutal End?
Posted by Vanessa Edwards Foster at 11:37 PM

http://transpolitical.blogspot.com/2009/06/is-empire-state-proud-of-trans-teens.html (http://transpolitical.blogspot.com/2009/06/is-empire-state-proud-of-trans-teens.html)

Rachel had just turned 18 in March. She was, until recently, just a regular teen to her friends in school in her town in New York State. She was recently accepted and was to attend the Juilliard School for dance, her muse.

She was supported by her mother and father in pursuing her dreams. Not just dance, but also her surgery. Even at her young age, she was a post-operative transsexual. Not only had she reached her physical goal of not only living, but being the gender she'd always innately known, but she was also a moderator on a transgender chat forum. She served as an inspiration to trans teens from far-flung places who happened onto that list.

Rachel wasn't without her personal tragedies though. Both her parents were recently in a horrible car crash that killed her father and cost her mother one of her arms. Last night, Rachel died in intensive care.

QuoteI can assure eveyone reading this thread that this is NOT a hoax. There is an active police investigation ongoing with several suspects in mind which is why it's being kept out of the media.

Police reports are public record. The media has access as well as the public to the report. It does not have to contain details of evidence. The fact is you do not even have her real full name or address. How can you verify that there is even such a person? Laura's is a site with many that play games. The Internet is full of misinformation.

I live in Upstate NY.  There has not been a single mention on the media whatsoever.  With Marriage Equality, Dignity for all Students and Gender Expression Non-Discrimination Act all on the table for a vote, the media would have been all over this.

With all due respect, this appears to be a fabrication.

Shauna

I can only say that if this does turn out to be a gigantic hoax, you all have my most profound apologies. We have been victimized by hoaxes before and I expect it will happen again. It's unfortunate that we as transgendered people are easy targets for any hate group that comes down the road and any incidents such as this must have them clapping their hands with glee, hoax or not.
M E

I'm going to have to add another voice in the choir of skepticism, no MSM stories about it, no police PR/reports, nothing but a very gory forum and blog re-re-posted story (or was it a story that got more detailed at it went through the blogosphere...)

Maybe they wanted to make a new persona on the internet, maybe they wanted to just plain leave the 'net, I don't know, but until the truth comes out, I'm going to have to keep this at a healthy distance. (as my initial reaction was enough to go to the gun store again even though I don't really have the money for a new "best friend")

The story is terrible.  It's visceral.  It hit me at a gut level.

I too have spent the last two days looking on the internet for corroboration, trying various combinations of the details presented.

So far, the only reports I find are of the 'a friend of a friend said' variety.

If it's true, if this has in fact happened, it needs to be told far and wide.

But there's a huge danger if this ends up on SNOPES.COM with a big, fat FALSE, and the trans community's credibility damaged.

I pray the community does not 'go public' with this until the story has official verification, and anyone can independently verify the events.

What town?

What high school?

What trucking company?  (The trial was public, records are available.)

As I said, it's a terrible story.

But I must await verification.

Karen

administrator laura on
laura's playground has
retracted the story and
labeled it a hoax

Quote from: MaryEllen on June 20, 2009, 08:23:32 AM
I can assure eveyone reading this thread that this is NOT a hoax. There is an active police investigation ongoing with several suspects in mind which is why it's being kept out of the media.


MaryEllen
Site Administrator
Laura's Playground

http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8660 (http://www.lauras-playground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8660)


This is the post that hizmom was referring to (thank for the link Flan). I think we can learn something valuable here. Just because we think we know people online, just because we get to "know" someone for a year in talking to them on a chat room, DOES NOT make it reality. Should you question who you believe? Should you question what's real and what's not? OMG! YES!!! We shouldn't be logging on to a computer and losing our common sense. This is a tragic story even as a hoax for a lot of reasons.

When i posted the link on here i did find it funny that nothing was on sites like msn and began to wonder. This is just ..not good thats all i can say. With the amount of people who got involved...it could start to look real bad on the trans community if anyone goes to the press or something. Gosh knows why they would but man...who thinks this stuff up!

Virginia sighs a sigh of relief...

Although it is in poor taste to perpetrate such a hoax, I would rather feel a fool than to have one of our folks fall victim to such a horrible crime  :P

It is with much chargrin and embarrassment that I must admit that this has been a gigantic hoax. The information that I provided above was thought to be true, provided to us by what we thought was a reliable source. Upon a lot of investigating on our own, we found that this was not the case. We have been "Had" royally so it seems. This is not over. We will continue to investigate untill we get to the bottom of this. I know you all think that we're a bunch of fools over at Laura's and maybe you're right. We sure did get fooled on this one.
Again, I apologize for all the turmoil that this hoax has caused.

MaryEllen

i dont get here much,
(and i post even less)
altho i live everyday
of my life as an advocate
and ally for the T in the
LGBTQ community....

i am finding inroads for activism
as well as standing firm in
my support for the blessing
in my life whose name is Adrien...

this perpetration of trust
has impacted my 15 YO son
at a level i cannot gauge...
his broken heart and righteous
anger has turned into something
foreign to him, and he is struggling
to come to some kind of understanding

i echo the swells of relief that no one
was made to endure the torture and
degradation described as their last
moments on earth

i will forgive the doer of this deed for
the tears and aching sorrow harbored
in my heart for "roo's" mother....

but it will take more time and introspection
for me to forgive what was done to the tender
and open heart of my son.... to ALL the teens
whose lives are filled with genuine issues of
their tumultuous circumstances .....

best to all....
hizmom

Hopefully the story is a hoax (although that is a really sick joke if it is) but regardless it does give us something to think about. I know quite a number of trans people particularly MTFs in all various points on the continuum of transition. Very few take their personal safety seriously. They won't even go so far as to carry a can of pepperspray. Some of the other ones are the other extreme and are afraid to even leave their house dressed and are basically closet crossdressers. I consider my life valuable and I also consider the lives of my friends and loved ones valuable as well. The police cannot be there to protect you at all times.

Most of these MTFs I know believe in the ideals that "nobody should hurt me because I'm not hurting anybody else" and that "I shouldn't have to worry about all this stuff when I go out." Yes you do. It is called basic survival skills. There are reasons we wear seatbelts in cars and why businesses are required to have fire extinguishers. I cannot control others but I value my life and my freedom regardless of what other people say I should or should not do with my life. So if when I go out for some nightlife in my preferred gender role somebody decides to make it a problem by physically hurting me, I will make it their problem. When my friends tell me to "be careful" I take it literally so when somebody decides to come after me with a hammer (or whatever) I will be pulling a pistol out of my purse and doing the world a favor. For any hate criminal who would want to attack me in my home, there is also an invisible sign on my front door stating "If you are found here in the evening, you will be found here in the morning."

It would be great for us all to live in a world where nobody hates us but until then, I will not be standing around singing kumbaya.

One should not be fearful or paranoid. But preserving your own self should be seriously considered. I've been attacked on various occasions for various reasons. Luckily, when I was sexually assaulted in the high school locker room showers, the coach was paying attention and halted the attack. Learning of this, my stepfather (a Viet Nam Vet.) began teaching me Tae Kwon Do and Jujitsu. I've studied various other styles as well.

Don't be afraid or paranoid. But be aware of your surroundings and make yourself ready to deal with any problems that may occur  ;)

I don't think I've ever felt relief to discover a news story was a hoax. My god, my throat locked up on this one.

Quote from: Autumn on June 21, 2009, 04:31:38 AM
I don't think I've ever felt relief to discover a news story was a hoax. My god, my throat locked up on this one.

Me too. Thank god.

What little relief I felt is drowned out by my disappointment and cynicism revolving around the simple fact that I didn't see it coming.
I've seen people lie about things not too dissimilar to this before, and yet, I didn't see it coming. I didn't expect trans folk to fake something this vile.

Disappointed and lost little of the tiny amount of faith I had in the world.

hoax or not its sad that things like that even are conceived of in our fellow human beings.  its just sad.

QuoteI didn't expect trans folk to fake something this vile.

Then you are very gullible. A lot worse things are fake and people accept them without verification. The rule of thumb is do not believe anything you hear and only half of what you see. Our senses are very poor transmitters of reality.

I'm sorry but my first reaction was anger and sadness. it didnt cross my mind to NOT believe it. It sounded harsh and scary but In my mind i Didnt think people were like that. I also thought sites would do back checking before posting it. So i mean now i don't know what to believe anymore. To be honiset i first say it when i saw a video on youtube from Grishno ...she was really upset about it. I know she has since posted another video but ya...*sigh* people today.

  Whether or not this was a hoax doesn't really matter.  Let us take solace in the fact that, yes, this time, no one was actually hurt.  However stuff like this DOES happen, more frequently then many would let you believe.  Sometimes stuff like this doesn't ever make the news, it's sounds unbelievable but it is true.  For example, in the subway there are at least 3-4 suicides (and attempts) by trains a month in Toronto.  However, only approx. 4-5 a year make it on the news.  Yes it's a different subject suicide vs. murder, but it proves the point that not everything that should, does in fact make the news.

  We do all need to feel shocked, and upset by anything like this.  We all need to be careful and take precautions to not end up in a real situation like this ourselves.  I am quite upset that this was a hoax, but none the less we need to learn from things like this, to protect ourselves.  I hope the person who made this up is horribly ashamed of themselves, but also I would like to thank them for bringing this to light.  I'm happy that we all could have this chance to discuss this issue, and that hopefully it will bring everyone closer together in creating a safer world for all of us.

  Lastly, I just wanted to say, I think it is far safer to believe something like this is true until it is disproved.  As opposed to dismissing it as a hoax right away, and running the risk of putting ourselves in an equally dangerous situation.

Quoterunning the risk of putting ourselves in an equally dangerous situation.

Many people are murdered every day. 3000 in NYC alone in the last few years. Every minute of your life is a time to be aware of your surroundings and the people you are with. No one is safe ever, anywhere. It matters not the type or age of the person killed a TS persons life is not worth any more than anyone's else's life. To give more emotion or attention to one over another is discrimination. But then we seem to be hypocrites on that subject.

Quote from: MaryEllen on June 20, 2009, 03:25:22 PM
It is with much chargrin and embarrassment that I must admit that this has been a gigantic hoax. The information that I provided above was thought to be true, provided to us by what we thought was a reliable source. Upon a lot of investigating on our own, we found that this was not the case. We have been "Had" royally so it seems. This is not over. We will continue to investigate untill we get to the bottom of this. I know you all think that we're a bunch of fools over at Laura's and maybe you're right. We sure did get fooled on this one.
Again, I apologize for all the turmoil that this hoax has caused.

MaryEllen

Not at all Mary Ellen running a site like yours or mine requires that we have an element of trust in our staffs. That trust can be betrayed. I respect you more for how you handled it after you found out it was a fake story.

Thank you, Mary Ellen, for coming on and being very up front with us.  No one thinks you are a bunch of fools at Laura's and your news is usually extremely reliable.  I, too, had not been able to find any other sources for this story.  It did not pass the smell test but I have held my comments to see what happens.  Personally, I am glad something so horrible is not true.  However, I wonder how many times hoaxes can get us to cry wolf before we start to look foolish.  That is my biggest worry.  Thankfully, in this case the community self-corrected and it has been pulled in every place I could find it earlier.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: MaryEllen on June 20, 2009, 03:25:22 PM
I know you all think that we're a bunch of fools over at Laura's

MaryEllen

No, not at all. I think you handled the situation quite well  :icon_chick:

Quote from: lisagurl on June 21, 2009, 07:18:50 PMNo one is safe ever, anywhere.

And if we live in fear, we don't live at all.

 

QuoteHowever stuff like this DOES happen, more frequently then many would let you believe.  Sometimes stuff like this doesn't ever make the news, it's sounds unbelievable but it is true.

Too true. And often these murders are characterized as suicides by police. A transwoman was murdered here several years ago by having her face smashed repeatedly against a dumpster. This was ruled a suicide. A lot of trans 'casualties' don't make the news.

Quote from: Miniar on June 22, 2009, 07:21:43 AM
And if we live in fear, we don't live at all.

I did not say live in fear. It is important to be alert and question your surroundings as well at the validity of the information you are given.

Fear is to those that are so drunk and drugged they know not reality.

---

Post Merge: June 22, 2009, 09:07:17 AM

---

QuoteA lot of trans 'casualties' don't make the news.

Every police report is in the local paper. It is just that a celebrity's kid smoking pot is a better soap opera.

Police reports are public record.

As are coroner reports, court records sealing such records, police call lists, protective orders, and death certificates.  The police can not seal such records, but the DA can.  However, there is still a court record of the records sealed, and who asked for that, and why.

And, it seemed a bit too horrific.  Most murders are crimes of passion, done on the spur of the moment, and very sloppy.  This kind of story with such a level of ritual in it seemed very Hollywood.  Particularly the KillBill aspect of her crawling out of being buried alive.  Given the extent of her injuries she would have had less than 3 minutes without air before she passed out.

We have received this statement/apology from the person we knew as Raychel (Roo) Is this real or yet another hoax?  I don't know. Personally, I'm taking it with a grain of salt. You all may judge for yourselves.

MaryEllen

QUOTE
I have copied this to some people that have an interest in my well-being.
----------------------------------

I know some of you will always hate me. I will have to live with that. I know some of you won't believe me. I will have to live with that, too. What I want you all to at least consider is, I didn't do anything to hurt any of you on purpose. I have no right to ask anything of any of you, but... I am. Please, at least read this letter through. I know you're all angry at me, and I can't help that.

I have had issues with a version of DID or MPD or whatever they're calling it currently in the past. I thought it was behind me. This is the first time that it has hurt people other than me, however. To say that I am appalled, and horrified -- this is expected, even if it's true, and most of you won't think any better of me. Counseling peppers my life from the time I left home, and I spent part of today trying to locate someone in this area that would be able to help me.

I am terrified that I have hurt anyone, especially those I care about. There was no malicious intent. This was not a stunt. My form of DID/MPD is known as highly-functional, meaning that I can be a part of "normal" society with no one the wiser. I don't want to lie to anyone. One thing I'm pretty sure I can count on from now on, that relieves me, is that if something about me seems suspicious in the future -- I know everyone will call me on it IMMEDIATELY.

Whether you believe me or not, Raychel (or Roo) was as real to me as to any of you. There are hundreds of emails exchanged between me and Roo. When I was confronted on Saturday morning, and throughout Saturday afternoon and evening, I was shocked that anyone could think such a thing. I knew she was real. I was proud of her accomplishments. I was upset that anyone would make a mockery of what she'd been through by making such accusations. I was in denial.

Around 11pm, maybe a little later (Central Time), all hell broke loose -- this was Saturday the 20th. I was looking through and trying to find out what would make anyone think such a thing. What I discovered was that anyone would think such a thing because there's no other conclusion to reach. It all filled my head. Everything Roo had done for nearly 2 years, as though I were standing behind her watching the entire thing happen. I spent the next half hour dry-heaving in the bathroom.

What have I done? I have all these memories, of things shared and people I've grown to love... and I'm a stranger to them, because the person they all knew was a façade. I immediately began trying to contact people, maybe if I explain, they'll understand? Maybe they won't blindly hate me?

Everything that was Roo, was real, in as much a way as possible. She -- I -- wanted to help people like me.

The problem is, in the past, when the stressful situations that have called for this kind of response from my mind have been alleviated, the person or people it has created... self-destructs. It's a theory that this is done so that I don't have a way to go back. A few times, this has been less than smooth, as it's forced me to confront the UNreality of someone I held dear. At one point, I went to a funeral of a close friend that I had grown up with, to find no funeral. No headstone, even. I went to the house she had lived in and the couple who had lived there for forty years informed me that they had no idea what I was talking about. Having to face it, the block crumbled in the same way that just happened with Roo.

In a way that I know would be and is creepy, Roo is still here, but I can't go back to being her. I care deeply about all of you. There are those that I felt connected to a lot more, but you will likely never want to speak to me again. Danielle. Sherlyn. MamaShar. MJ. Karen. Jay. Casey. These are not the only people I cared about. They are the ones I was closest to, however. I want you all to know... I never meant to hurt anyone. I don't care that my reputation as who I "really" am is trashed. You're all probably going to hate me forever. I ... would really like to still know and love and care for you all, but I also know that's not likely. What I care about is that you know that I did not set out to hurt you, that I did not set out to hurt anyone.

I denied what was going on when confronted because I really thought everyone had lost it. I mean, I -knew- Roo was real, I'd hugged her, even. I could have continued denying all of this, and probably recovered from it. But, to me... that would be downright evil. I really can't do that.

I will try to explain how the process generally "works" for me. Throughout my life, when there have been situations that I need an out of this kind, someone new comes into my life. Most people conceive of DID/MPD as being internalized. I actually see and interact with these people. I am convinced despite what later are looked at as obvious giveaways, that they are as real as I am. There have been times in which there were many of them at one time -- so when I had experienced this a few times and had entered counseling, it would lend credibility that other people knew they were there. It was recursive logic, but I didn't realize. I even had a "twin sister" for a very long time, that I had to protect from bad things happening to her. This meant putting up with those bad things myself, and it was okay that I wasn't coming forward against those doing them because I was protecting my sister.

Why did Roo have to "die" in such a horrible fashion? Why did Roo have to "die" at all? I don't know. I don't have an answer for that. As I said, when the situation has moved to the point that I no longer need such help, the alter self-destructs in such a way that I cannot go back.

Everything that Roo was, still is, if that helps anyone at all.

I know I have no right to hope for it, but... I would dearly love to begin again with friendship, with all of you, but particularly... those that I was closest to as Roo.

A lot of you have wondered what might be the "motive" for all of this. There was none. The only motive was Roo seeking somewhere to belong and to help. There was never anything malicious in all of this, I never wanted to hurt anyone, and for what it's worth... everything I said I truly believed.

There is much more to say, but I will end this here, for now.

edeyn blackeney

Quote from: MaryEllen on June 20, 2009, 08:23:32 AM

I can assure eveyone reading this thread that this is NOT a hoax.
There is an active police investigation ongoing...

...Laura's Playground is a well respected transgender support site and
to think that we would stoop so low as to invent such a trash story is
unthinkable. We're not the Jerry Springer show...

...We appreciate any prayers and support during this time of tribulation.
May Raychel rest in peace.
Thank you for taking time to read this.

MaryEllen
Site Administrator
Laura's Playground...

Though the apology was long, the end result was... 'its not my fault, even though I did it.'  Great spokesperson for the community.

I sincerely hope this person will seek and find the help they need

Sorry, but why is she (is the poster female? just the alter?) attempting to make her MH issue the scapegoat?  To avoid all actual responsibility?  Or because this person hasn't realized that the DID isn't separate from herself, but part of her? 

this is so freaking weird.

I get the drift of a multiple personality disorder. 'It wasn't me, it was someone else who is also me. Then all the other me's ganged up and killed one of my me's."  :P

This is just bizarre.  She needs some help and quickly.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

I could be wrong. But after witnessing and dealing with various folks with various phsychological disorders, I think I might have this one sussed. Def. he or she needs to get help immediately before they actually do harm themselves or others. imo  :P

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 22, 2009, 09:28:00 PM
I could be wrong. But after witnessing and dealing with various folks with various phsychological disorders, I think I might have this one sussed. Def. he or she needs to get help immediately before they actually do harm themselves or others. imo  :P

Why?

In all of the research I have ever done and in all of the clients I have yet seen myself I have never experienced either through the literature or live such a form of MPD or C-PTSD as was related in that.

Not sayin' she's not a single-specimen, but I'm rather sceptical.

First dead and now a previously unreported type of multiple manifestation? Too much, just too much.

P.S. Actually I have heard of this, one time. It's an element of the plot in the current hit novel The Lace Reader.

Well, OK. Maybe she's just a faker. But she did talk about one of a few personalities being brutally murdered. So who do you think carries out these brutal murders of another personality? Also, there is a big difference between MPD and C-PTSD as I'm sure your well aware of.

And as I am sure you're well-aware of, DID and or MPD with multiples is an extremely rare occurrence. Rather convenient that this person has a previously unreported variety of that, no? Dissociation is not very rare at all. The making of a entire personality is rather rare.

Usually they are the result of some very severe trauma.

I find it just too convenient that this particular "variety" manages to appear in a currently popular novel.

Throwing an easy pop diagnosis on this one would be a disservice.  There is no way we have enough info to make such a decision.  I think it is as much a hoax as the story itself.  Something is very wrong here.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

O, I imagine there's a very easy "pop diagnosis" for this, Kris. A lie on another lie.

Are we ganging up on Virginia now  ??? I'm not interested in an argument and probably shouldn't give any opinions or try to help anyone. After all I was born yesterday and everyone else knows everything about everything. No problem  :P

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 22, 2009, 10:42:06 PM
Are we ganging up on Virginia now  ??? I'm not interested in an argument and probably shouldn't give any opinions or try to help anyone. After all I was born yesterday and everyone else knows everything about everything. No problem  :P

I don't think so. I don't think that the opinions expressed by either Kris or myself had much at all to do with you, Virginia, except that I used your comment as a springboard for my own and then answered something you asked of me.

If you think that the person requires help and support then so be it. Personally I think she prolly just needs to have a real adventure so she can discover that "adventure" can be a pretty harrowing thang that kinda makes one long for nondescript peace and quiet. :)

Well, OK. Maybe I'm just being frustrated and grumpy because I hear I cry for help in her words and would like to help. Heck, it's been awhile since I studied psych.

Some adventures can be rather harrowing and leave you longing for peace and quiet. Then again, once bitten by the adventure bug.... :laugh:

Quote from: Nichole on June 22, 2009, 10:23:54 PM
O, I imagine there's a very easy "pop diagnosis" for this, Kris. A lie on another lie.

Well, that, in essence was what I was trying to say, though a little less bluntly.  I do agree that anyone who would make up such a story is in need of some real help, but I do not think we should give reinforcement to a very negative behavior by pouring out sympathy.  In the long run, this would not be a kind thing to teach her.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi

Quote from: Kristi on June 23, 2009, 08:44:07 AM
Well, that, in essence was what I was trying to say, though a little less bluntly.  I do agree that anyone who would make up such a story is in need of some real help, but I do not think we should give reinforcement to a very negative behavior by pouring out sympathy.  In the long run, this would not be a kind thing to teach her.

I agree all-the-way-round.

1) Get a life, a real live life that doesn't include a "life on a chat," "a life on a forum," or "a life on YouTube."

That seems the one major problem with "the community," no life except in "the community" which seems to include only those things I listed above.

N~

There are a lot of people, and I suspect Roo is one, where there is not such thing as 'bad' attention, there is only attention, or no attention.  As long as everyone is paying attention to her, what's it matter to her?  I'm sure, not much.

Of course, none of this was helped by people jumping to conclusions and believing everything they read on the web, even when it seems fantastic - so kudos to those who actually bothered to check, and zero points to those who thought the police could keep a story like this out of the news. 

And Nichole is right, life is what happens when you walk outside and deal with real people in your real community.  Particularly with the caveat that as Frank Zappa once said, "The people in your community are those who are there, not those you want there."   

It's sad really, and sure its a pathetic cry for attention and help, but not all of us are in that kind of giving mood.  I'm hoping she can find the help she needs, but really, I hope she finds it on the next block over if you know what I mean.