Susan's Place Transgender Resources

In a perfect world I would like to start HRT three months from now.  However, I am probably going to need to keep my current job for at least a year to pay for facial feminization surgery.  In the state of Wisconsin firing someone for being a transsexual is acceptable, and I am not sure if I would even get unemployment.  It has taken over four years for me to get my current job, so my re-employment prospects are not good.

Which leads to the following questions:
How hard is it to conceal HRT at work? 
-> I have read suggestions like sports bras and the such, but more information would be nice

Having done some reading I read about one case where a transwomen was outed at work by oil secretions from her breasts.  I work in a cheese factory, so this type of thing would instantly be a problem.  Does anyone have any more information about this?  I was thinking some type of pad could be used to absorb this if it is common.   

Thank you for any information / thoughts you can give me,
Galantha

QuoteHaving done some reading I read about one case where a transwomen was outed at work by oil secretions from her breasts. 

wow. never heard of that one. from the HRT?  ???

Quote from: Nero on July 05, 2009, 12:51:07 PM
wow. never heard of that one. from the HRT?  ???

It apparently is a possible side effect from something called "Prolactin".  I have been looking for more information without much success.

-- Galantha

Prolactin, as I recall, is what comes in before your milk does when you have a kid. Never thought of it as oily tho. If this is so they make pads just for it, same ones used by breast feeding mothers.

Quote from: LordKAT on July 05, 2009, 01:12:00 PM
Prolactin, as I recall, is what comes in before your milk does when you have a kid. Never thought of it as oily tho. If this is so they make pads just for it, same ones used by breast feeding mothers.

That answers 1/2 my post very nicely.  Thank you!
-- Galantha

For me, an unbuttoned collared shirt over a loose t-shirt has been enough for a while.  Part of it will probably depend on how much and how fast your growth is, everyone is different there.

If you start secreting prolactin from your nipples, your hormone levels are too high.  They would need some adjustment.  If that occurs, yes, use nursing pads to absorb the secretions.

Also note that your skin will become smoother as you feminize and you will lose body, though not facial hair.  Also some of your facial features will become softer.  That may be noticed as well, even if no one notices your budding breasts.

It happened to me and I just said I was taking better care of my skin.  No one mentioned anything about my body hair.

-Sandy

Quote from: Sandy on July 05, 2009, 01:38:23 PM
If you start secreting prolactin from your nipples, your hormone levels are too high.  They would need some adjustment.  If that occurs, yes, use nursing pads to absorb the secretions.

Also note that your skin will become smoother as you feminize and you will lose body, though not facial hair.  Also some of your facial features will become softer.  That may be noticed as well, even if no one notices your budding breasts.

It happened to me and I just said I was taking better care of my skin.  No one mentioned anything about my body hair.

-Sandy

It sounds like you were able to hide your HRT at work which seems to be a good sign.  If I may ask, how long did you hide it?

With the exception of my face, my entire body is covered where I work.  I would have to worry about the locker room, but I was thinking of changing in the bathroom stall.  Not really sure.  The main things I would be worried about were hip developement and breast developement.  I am one of those guys that already has breasts to start with, so I am not sure how that is going to go (I hate refering to myself as a guy also).  I also have always had a feminine walk (it drew insults in school) so the hip sway is a bit worrying to me, but perhaps I am just being paranoid.

-- Galantha

Quote from: Galantha on July 05, 2009, 12:43:41 PM
In a perfect world I would like to start HRT three months from now.  However, I am probably going to need to keep my current job for at least a year to pay for facial feminization surgery.  In the state of Wisconsin firing someone for being a transsexual is acceptable, and I am not sure if I would even get unemployment.  It has taken over four years for me to get my current job, so my re-employment prospects are not good.

Which leads to the following questions:
How hard is it to conceal HRT at work? 
-> I have read suggestions like sports bras and the such, but more information would be nice

Having done some reading I read about one case where a transwomen was outed at work by oil secretions from her breasts.  I work in a cheese factory, so this type of thing would instantly be a problem.  Does anyone have any more information about this?  I was thinking some type of pad could be used to absorb this if it is common.   

Thank you for any information / thoughts you can give me,
Galantha

I've been on HRT for about 4 months or 120 days now and I wear a sports bra daily at work with dark shirts that have breast pockets. Nobody is the wiser. I tan a lot too to hide any changes that may be noticeable. If anything right now I just look younger. I cant really see any major changes. Well boobs maybe. And my hair is certainly thicker on top.

As far as leakage, when a pregnant woman starts lactation it is after a "let down" where all hormones stop being produced. After really high hormone levels, (if you have never noticed just how beautiful a pregnant woman was in the last month of her term,  just stand her in the sun and her skin is like shimmery silk, her hair is thick and full, and her nails are long and pretty) then once the hormones are stopped, you will get discharge. If I stopped all HRT right now, I know what will happen. They make pads to place in front of the nipples to catch any discharge. Its not oil, its prolactin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolactin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolactin)

You may get some from elevated hormone levels, everybody is different. You probably won't, but get some breast feeding pads and stick them in your sports bra if you are concerned.

http://www.target.com/Medela-Disposable-Nursing-Bra-Pads/dp/B00006FWVR (http://www.target.com/Medela-Disposable-Nursing-Bra-Pads/dp/B00006FWVR)

Quote from: Lori on July 05, 2009, 02:15:22 PM
I've been on HRT for about 4 months or 120 days now and I wear a sports bra daily at work with dark shirts that have breast pockets. Nobody is the wiser. I tan a lot too to hide any changes that may be noticeable. If anything right now I just look younger. I cant really see any major changes. Well boobs maybe. And my hair is certainly thicker on top.

As far as leakage, when a pregnant woman starts lactation it is after a "let down" where all hormones stop being produced. After really high hormone levels, (if you have never noticed just how beautiful a pregnant woman was in the last month of her term,  just stand her in the sun and her skin is like shimmery silk, her hair is thick and full, and her nails are long and pretty) then once the hormones are stopped, you will get discharge. If I stopped all HRT right now, I know what will happen. They make pads to place in front of the nipples to catch any discharge. Its not oil, its prolactin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolactin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prolactin)

You may get some from elevated hormone levels, everybody is different. You probably won't, but get some breast feeding pads and stick them in your sports bra if you are concerned.

http://www.target.com/Medela-Disposable-Nursing-Bra-Pads/dp/B00006FWVR (http://www.target.com/Medela-Disposable-Nursing-Bra-Pads/dp/B00006FWVR)

Thank you very much for sharing your experance and recommendations.  I think I am going to try and get on HRT as soon as my therapist will let me then.

-- Galantha

Hiding it isn't really an issue, unless you suddenly pop some c cups and if you do oh-poor-you anyway.  It gets harder to want to hide it every day, but if your'e expecting it maybe it won't be so tuff. Something about the jump from knowing your'e female, and then shortly into hrt actually physically feeling like one seems to add a sense of urgency.

It depends what you have to wear to work I suppose.  I've started to always wear a cami or a sports bra under whatever I'm wearing to help smooth things out, but they honestly don't do too much yet.  It's more of an exercise of learning to hide things before I really need to (my breasts are an A right now, so it's not really noticeable on my body yet).  The shaping camis I have are nice because they give me a slightly nicer figure and they don't show under any of my work shirts.  So far no one has said anything, or looked like they noticed at all.  I have seen people noticing my hairless arms, but they haven't said anything about it.  The biggest comment I've gotten about anything transition related (while not being out to any of these people) was "oh your hair looks cute pulled back like that!" :D

My "strategy" was to gradually shift my appearance to be more androgynous, which I started doing about a year ago.  my hope was that by looking more gender neutral I would feel better about myself and gain some confidence, plus other things wouldn't come as much of a surprise to my coworkers - like when I started wearing my hair differently, or my nails were more shaped, or my eye brows thinned out, etc.  I don't know if people aren't noticing, or feeling awkward about saying anything, or more likely they just don't care, but it works for me.

My advice is similiar to posts already up.   I was on HRT for several years before transitioning in the workplace, but I hadn't started anti-androgens until the last couple of years.  And Anti-Androgens are what kicked breast growth into overdrive (if you are one of the lucky ones that have that 'gene').   It became exceedingly hard to hide the growth.

They were hot, especially in summer, but I used these chest binders to good effect:

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.underworks.com%2Fimages%2F991.jpg&hash=ee91dde53be17860943e1607be73960ebdc36d6b)

Sold by a company called underworks in the states.   (google 'em if you are interested).

Style #991.   But I don't remember them being so expensive back then.  I bought 5 of them to last through the work week, and wore them for a couple years, they are sturdy.

I'd donate the ones I had to the cause, but once I transitioned out, they went into the trash, they were a bit worn, anyway.

In the end, when I asked people if they ever noticed, no one did.   Even the last three months, when I decided to chuck the binder, and just free form it under my loose dress shirts (with a t-shirt underneath), no one noticed.  They just don't expect to see things that aren't "supposed" to be there,  :P.

Good Luck Galantha!

*huggs*,
Melan

I wouldn't wear a binder in any case.
First, they are uncomfortable even without having tender growing breasts.
Second, they are usually worn by people who don't care about the long term effects on their breasts.

If you are really paranoid, I'd suggest:
A seamless sports bra.
With a smallish dark T-shirt over it.
With a largish, button down shirt with twin breast pockets on top.
(Kind of like something a park ranger would wear.)

Quote from: Renate on July 05, 2009, 05:33:18 PM
I wouldn't wear a binder in any case.
First, they are uncomfortable even without having tender growing breasts.
Second, they are usually worn by people who don't care about the long term effects on their breasts.

I certainly wouldn't be one to recommend something that was harmful to others, with the chest binders.  I wasn't aware of such dangers, so my apologies for my post above.  I did not experience negative affects, and never gave thought to the fact that they are dangerous to developing breasts, I had never read anything to that point.   I can remove my post if you like?

Take Care,
Melan

Quote from: Renate on July 05, 2009, 05:33:18 PM
I wouldn't wear a binder in any case.
First, they are uncomfortable even without having tender growing breasts.
Second, they are usually worn by people who don't care about the long term effects on their breasts.

If you are really paranoid, I'd suggest:
A seamless sports bra.
With a smallish dark T-shirt over it.
With a largish, button down shirt with twin breast pockets on top.
(Kind of like something a park ranger would wear.)

The seamless sports bra sounds like an idea when it comes time.

At the moment I am working as a temp.  Temps are mandated to wear light cloths with no buttons and long sleeves.  At the moment that means white sweatshirt + Kahki pants.  (the whole place is a refrigerated).

The uniform provided to regular workers (which I am hoping to get hired on as one in a month or two) is a white linen shirt and white linen pants which are loose and look very comfortable.  They have snaps on them and no pockets.  People typically wear some sort of white sweatshirt under these.  If you look hard it is possible to see through them.

While your suggestions sound very wise and thought out, I unfortunately would only be able to implement the seamless bra part :(.

Thank you everyone for your responses,
Galantha

Quote from: Melan on July 05, 2009, 05:40:52 PM
I certainly wouldn't be one to recommend something that was harmful to others, with the chest binders.  I wasn't aware of such dangers, so my apologies for my post above.  I did not experience negative affects, and never gave thought to the fact that they are dangerous to developing breasts, I had never read anything to that point.   I can remove my post if you like?

Take Care,
Melan

I've been wondering about tight fitting sports bras myself. I have never heard binding will stop them from growing. I cannot imagine your binder fitting tighter than one of the sports bras I wear. They hurt already. I don't suppose I'm doing damage....

Quote from: Galantha on July 05, 2009, 01:47:07 PM
It sounds like you were able to hide your HRT at work which seems to be a good sign.  If I may ask, how long did you hide it?

With the exception of my face, my entire body is covered where I work.  I would have to worry about the locker room, but I was thinking of changing in the bathroom stall.  Not really sure.  The main things I would be worried about were hip developement and breast developement.  I am one of those guys that already has breasts to start with, so I am not sure how that is going to go (I hate refering to myself as a guy also).  I also have always had a feminine walk (it drew insults in school) so the hip sway is a bit worrying to me, but perhaps I am just being paranoid.

-- Galantha

I work in the corporate world I would regularly wear a sports bra and business casual type shirt then a bulky sweater over that.  I like being warm.  I did that for about eight months prior to my coming out.

Lots of guys get embarrassed in the locker room and change in the stalls.  I would go with that.  No one is really going to call you out on that.  For the most part, guys really don't comment on other guys. 

Also in the short term, I.E. less than a year, you probably won't have that dramatic a change in your physical appearance.  Yes, your skin will become lighter, and smoother, you may get some gynocomastia, but probably not too much fat redistribution to your hips.  Also realize that hip shape is formed primarily by the underlying bone structure.  Your pelvis is still quite masculine so you probably won't develop that much hip width.

Quote from: Galantha on July 05, 2009, 12:43:41 PM
Which leads to the following questions:
How hard is it to conceal HRT at work? 
-> I have read suggestions like sports bras and the such, but more information would be nice

Very easy. I know someone who was on HRT for 10 years or more and worked as a guy through the day and no one noticed anything. HRT is very limited and you will be surprised how easy it is to be on HRT and still work as a guy.

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on July 05, 2009, 07:29:45 PM
Very easy. I know someone who was on HRT for 10 years or more and worked as a guy through the day and no one noticed anything. HRT is very limited and you will be surprised how easy it is to be on HRT and still work as a guy.

I've seen some amazing transformations with HRT and some people that barely change on it. I don't think it is fair to say it is very easy to hide it. I mean....what if this is one of those people that has amazing changes? They won't be able to hide it. I've seen some people that were fully transitioned with SRS and they didn't look like women to me at all. And they got sir'd everywhere they went. It is awful for them.  I think everybody is different. I also know there are some people that could never hide the changes after 1 year of HRT. They got mammed in boy clothes.

I would say just deny deny deny. That's what I did (except for breast growth, may have to get a binder for that)

One can only hope Lori.

Has anyone tried out something called a shimmel?

-- Galantha

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Post Merge: July 05, 2009, 08:40:44 PM

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Quote from: Tristan on July 05, 2009, 07:46:40 PM
I would say just deny deny deny. That's what I did (except for breast growth, may have to get a binder for that)

I was thinking if asked that I would fess up to a hormone imbalance (like the guy in fight club) that I was very embarressed about and there was nothing the doctor could do that my insurance would pay for.

Then again deny deny deny might be a better way to go.

-- Galantha

"... HRT is very limited and you will be surprised how easy it is to be on HRT and still work as a guy."


for some maybe.  Even before I was "out" customers thought I was a girl after about a year on hormones.  lol.  We wore coveralls all day, I worked in a automotive shop working on semi trucks, :o.  I actually miss doing it, but I have to follow a different path. 

Anyway the problem with the coveralls is that mine fit fairly tighly and soon my nipples would really start to show.  Even my boss asked me if I was growing titties, lol.  This sounds appaling to most, but in that environment is just par for the course.  Pretty soon one of the guys would start hollering across the shop at me, "hey show us your teats".  I would get embarassed but I knew full well if I could deal with crap there then the rest of the world would be a piece of cake. 

I think people there got scared as they knew of my transition.  Maybe they  even felt a little challenged by my gender identity, who knows.


At my job now one of my residents kept thinking im a guy.  lol hes the only one and hes like 95 so most chalk that up to senility, lol.  He always calls me "a boy" and when his family was around too.  His family and I then all laughed then about how absurd that would be..  ;) ;)  Life is funny.

My best advice is the same as above as far as apparel.  Despite any noticable changes its no ones business but your own. Some health conditions and medications can cause gynecomastia, so as far as anyone else is concerned, thats a personal health issue and no one has a right to make comments. 

In my case I didn't care too much as I was pretty much out later on.  Point is dont worry too much about it as you have to do what you have to do to be happy.  Who knows the people your afraid of knowing may end up being your closest ally. 

"They are called man boobs Earl."  Always work for me.  Guys understand those things for some reason.  And HRT would create results over night.  Large tee shirts worked for me.  Of course now, I proudly show what I am developing.

Janet

Quote from: Lori on July 05, 2009, 07:35:11 PM
I've seen some amazing transformations with HRT and some people that barely change on it. I don't think it is fair to say it is very easy to hide it. I mean....what if this is one of those people that has amazing changes? They won't be able to hide it. I've seen some people that were fully transitioned with SRS and they didn't look like women to me at all. And they got sir'd everywhere they went. It is awful for them.  I think everybody is different. I also know there are some people that could never hide the changes after 1 year of HRT. They got mammed in boy clothes.

I've never seen anyone benefit very much from HRT and I've seen and met an awful lot of TS's in my time. Show me pics of these amazing changes?

HRT might possibly work on a 12 year old who hasn't fully developed. Many are delusional and think HRT works better than it does.

I only ever met one TS that had a proper female shape (with propertionate hips and butt etc and much smaller upper body) and she was from Thialand or a similar sort of area.

SRS isn't a gender change and the differences between men and women are guaged by their physical measurements and not their genitalia. I agree with you that many who have been on HRT and have had SRS still look male physically. It's really upsetting but true.

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on July 06, 2009, 05:55:46 AM
It's really upsetting ...

I'm sorry that this gets you upset.

We do the best we can do and get on with our lives.

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on July 06, 2009, 05:55:46 AM
I've never seen anyone benefit very much from HRT and I've seen and met an awful lot of TS's in my time. Show me pics of these amazing changes?

HRT might possibly work on a 12 year old who hasn't fully developed. Many are delusional and think HRT works better than it does.

I only ever met one TS that had a proper female shape (with propertionate hips and butt etc and much smaller upper body) and she was from Thialand or a similar sort of area.

SRS isn't a gender change and the differences between men and women are guaged by their physical measurements and not their genitalia. I agree with you that many who have been on HRT and have had SRS still look male physically. It's really upsetting but true.

I am not sure what you are trying to get at, but I really don't want to deal with it. If you seriously want to believe what you just wrote that is fine. Out of 100+ women that I work with there are probably 10 whole women here that have the ideal hourglass female body shape with the proportions that would meet model specs. It is just an ideal. And it is unrealistic for most women.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=male+to+female+before+and+after+pictures (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=male+to+female+before+and+after+pictures)

Several of the people who have posted in this thread have undergone amazing physical changes and lots more are members. Not to mention how much hrt helps keep us from opening our wrists to the air or swallowing bottles of pills. Being able to smile and just face the day is an amazing change for me, I can take proper hips or leave them, whatever, but I would never ever call hrt a wash.

Where I work there are alot of women both middle aged and older that work there.  They don't look like super models.  They are not exactly thin.  But my goal is to be one of them, not a super model.  That is not a hard line to reach in my perspective.

Also, I looked through male to female photos.  The vast majority of them are acceptable result to me.  The number one thing that can throw a person for a loop is the face, and that can be dealt with surgery (I hope). 

-- Galantha

Quote from: Naturally Blonde on July 06, 2009, 05:55:46 AM
I've never seen anyone benefit very much from HRT and I've seen and met an awful lot of TS's in my time. Show me pics of these amazing changes?

HRT might possibly work on a 12 year old who hasn't fully developed. Many are delusional and think HRT works better than it does.

I only ever met one TS that had a proper female shape (with propertionate hips and butt etc and much smaller upper body) and she was from Thialand or a similar sort of area.

SRS isn't a gender change and the differences between men and women are guaged by their physical measurements and not their genitalia. I agree with you that many who have been on HRT and have had SRS still look male physically. It's really upsetting but true.

So if a womens figure doesn't fit then shes not a women.  Ive met girls that were far more broadshouldered than i with a narrow pelvis too.  Does this mean that theyre not women, because I assure you they are. 

And here in a min im going to post some before and after pics of me just to prove a point.  HRT has changed my face, alot.  Granted its not perfect but its alot better.  So dont generalize and say that it doesn't work.  I've got better results than I ever expected so I can accept what isn't perfect about my body.

Susan let me know if im in violation here.
about 1 1/2 to 2 years on hormones.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Audrey674/042709_21041.jpg (http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Audrey674/042709_21041.jpg)
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Audrey674/nightcrew.jpg (http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Audrey674/nightcrew.jpg)

pre transition.

ok these have yet to come as theyre not on my flash drive.  But they will be posted soon

I've never seen a sports bra big enough I could get into it...

jesus heather you had me scared for a minute lol.  I do have a little roll, its just hard to see in this pic. I am still looking for pre transition photos as they are rare. go figure.

Audrey you are just to cute for words. You look very good. I have to say a total hottie as the guys would say.

Audrey does look fantastic. 

I don't know where you started from Naturally Blonde, but I hope I luck out a little better then your own experance.  I have seen cross dressers do amazing things with the male body, so even if HRT fails I am hoping with a female face all will not be lost.

-- Galantha

*edit: For some reason I am thinking Naturally Blonde last post was deleted?

Quote from: Audrey on July 06, 2009, 06:38:35 PM
So if a womens figure doesn't fit then shes not a women.  Ive met girls that were far more broadshouldered than i with a narrow pelvis too.  Does this mean that theyre not women, because I assure you they are. 

And here in a min im going to post some before and after pics of me just to prove a point.  HRT has changed my face, alot.  Granted its not perfect but its alot better.  So dont generalize and say that it doesn't work.  I've got better results than I ever expected so I can accept what isn't perfect about my body.

Susan let me know if im in violation here.
about 1 1/2 to 2 years on hormones.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Audrey674/042709_21041.jpg (http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Audrey674/042709_21041.jpg)
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Audrey674/nightcrew.jpg (http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii11/Audrey674/nightcrew.jpg)

pre transition.

ok these have yet to come as theyre not on my flash drive.  But they will be posted soon

Audrey, you are pretty convincing. I had to tweek it a bit to see the photograph properly as it was very dark but yes....

Also the other photograph with the 4 people, I'm not sure which person is you but they all look female!

silly im the one with the biggest smile! ;D  also alot about body shape is posture.  Don't slouch or hunch over.  that was and is my hardest tendency to overcome.  Doing so makes the shoulders appear much larger.  oh and thanks everyone.  i feel ive proven my point.

Quote from: Audrey on July 07, 2009, 11:35:16 AM
silly im the one with the biggest smile! ;D  also alot about body shape is posture.  Don't slouch or hunch over.  that was and is my hardest tendency to overcome.  Doing so makes the shoulders appear much larger.  oh and thanks everyone.  i feel ive proven my point.

Audrey, You look very natural. You may have been quite young at the start of your transition compared to many.

one thing to remember is that hormones WILL change the way you think. at first it easy but later start to "want"people to know. that's how has been for me.