Post removed per request.
Maybe it is better to just ignore the old GID nut for the moment and you will see that you answered your own question - you re a person with a gender identity best classified as "girl", "woman", "feminine" etc, and are not curently contemplating surgery or anything and you are more concerned with your actual physical body than the clothes you put on it. No single word can sum that up can it, and does it need to?
GID is a diagnoses given by a mental health professional, assuming you even believe in it. e.g. I don't consider myself to have a GID but I would be classified as such by others.
How do you see yourself? Do you see your soul as best represented in a female body or a male body?
QuoteI feel that my gender identity can best be classified as "girl", "woman", "feminine" etc.
What's wrong with those?
Janet
It's important to separate the identity and the expression. You might not find a label that fits, but that's 100% ok. If the labels are tripping you up, just forget about them. Is a label going to actually change what you are feeling? It's not really anyone else's business to tell you what you are or are not, the only opinion about that that matters is yours.
Whether you decide you need to take action on those feelings is another story entirely.
Quote from: Anima on July 19, 2009, 08:09:22 PM
Yeah, I do have some problems with the word "disorder". Exactly what is it that has to be disordered about it? Makes me puzzled.
I heard some helpful things a couple years back in a Townhouse Talk or something like that, with someone in town assisting in research and change for GID definitions.
What about the idea that it isn't YOU that has the disorder, it's our culture that has it? The culture we live in can't easily process that some of us feel we are different from our biological gender.
I have come to believe it isn't ME that is disordered on the topic of gender, but I do find I need support dealing with what it takes to be in this culture, with my internal experience of gender (I identify as a man with a transgender medical history, now that I have had some surgeries and Testosterone for more than 2.5 yrs).
You write things that sound like what I used to think -- I thought things had to be WORSE than they were for me to claim being transsexual. I honestly went to four psychiatrists /psychologists, all with gender specialties (planned it ahead) within one week, to try to get help understanding what I am, and all of them said it sounded like Gender Identity Dysphoria (one wanted to run MMPI and other tests, which I had recently done anyways, others diagnosed me with it in one session, fwiw). It helped me to talk with them, and get the differing ways of approaching it they had. and then, having the four diagnoses (basically), it helped me to accept that I could be included. Not sure if that is similar for you, but seems relevant to the discussion. You don't have to be in more pain to say you are transsexual / transgendered, friend. I say, the sooner you can let go of suffering, the better. It only hurts.
Joseph
There's nothing wrong with the word "disorder" in the literal, clinical sense. Ignorance and prejudice in society may overload that term to make folks feel that it's used to alienate, rather than simply describe. That doesn't invalidate it's use in "gender identity disorder", although I personally prefer dysphoria.
Quote from: Anima on July 20, 2009, 09:38:17 AM
A label could maybe validate my problems as something actual. I am kind of feeling like I am not suffering enough to complain about it.
Oh good, you need to suffer more... >:-)
I think I understand what you are saying. I went to a gender clinic years ago, but because I was successful in life pretending to be a man - not on drugs or drink or in jail or living on the street - they wondered why I was even there. :P (Evidently I wasn't suffereing enough. ::))
Don't let the "disorder" word trip you up. It's a clinical term that is losing favor, I think. One of the things that helped me was when I read the Wikipedea definition of genderqueer. I thought: Wow, there's a word for what I am!
A lot of us on this site are some version of what you are, Anima. Good luck discovering just what that is. :-*
- Kate
Have you ever had powerful maternal instincts, or the inexplicable desire to bear children and nurture them and defend their lives violently?
If not, it's unlikely you're a woman.
Quote from: Blair on July 23, 2009, 03:54:08 AM
Have you ever had powerful maternal instincts, or the inexplicable desire to bear children and nurture them and defend their lives violently?
If not, it's unlikely you're a woman.
Um, that's a bit dogmatic.
I think that many natal women would not qualify under your rules.
Quote from: Blair on July 23, 2009, 03:54:08 AM
Have you ever had powerful maternal instincts, or the inexplicable desire to bear children and nurture them and defend their lives violently?
If not, it's unlikely you're a woman.
I had a powerful instinct to have a child, which I did. I have a very explicable desire to nurture her, which I do. I am very willing to defend her life with mine, which fortunately I have not had to do yet. I thought that just made me her father.
I didn't have a strong desire to have the baby grow within me, but I usually can repress my feelings to fit the possible. I am not a genetic woman, but judging by how I feel and act since starting hormones and starting to live full time I'm certainly more woman than man.
We don't all fit into neat categories. One reason most of us go through so much confusion as we try to discover our true selves is that there is no definitive "if this .... that" test.
- Kate
Quote from: Renate on July 23, 2009, 05:48:46 AM
Um, that's a bit dogmatic.
I think that many natal women would not qualify under your rules.
Maternal instincts are pretty much the most powerful, deeply ingrained instincts a woman can have. They are also very subconscious. I think they are a good divining rod for seeing whether or not someone is actually a female in these circumstances. Not an end-all, be-all diagnosis, but definitely a very good indicator, since the standards of care are rather rigorous, and require us to take a long, hard look at our subconscious thoughts, beginning as early as possible.
I'm sorry to hear that Anima. I hope you get your situation sorted out into something a little less precarious, so you can get into a position where you can at least be comfortable with yourself day to day.
That nurse was an idiot who probably hates her marriage and neglects her children. Take heart.
If there is a god in heaven pictures are as close as either of you will ever get to real kids. They are not romantic notions, they are living beings and need to be treated as such.
Quote from: tekla on July 23, 2009, 12:25:08 PM
If there is a god in heaven pictures are as close as either of you will ever get to real kids. They are not romantic notions, they are living beings and need to be treated as such.
That's a pretty messed up thing to say. I've been good with children, and trusted with their care many times throughout my life. I probably won't adopt any time soon, because I want to bring a child into a world that is very ready and stable and prepared to focus much time, energy and love upon it. I feel very strongly about proper child-care, and I've seen so many people screwed up by bad parents.
You say something so absolutely harsh because someone has maternal instincts and laments (quietly, not so much that it CRIPPLES their ability to function) their inability to fully satisfy them.
I don't get it.
Quote from: Anima on July 23, 2009, 12:46:19 PM
If you're going to be rude, at least you should have a reason for it.
I think, based upon a handful of posts on a nearly anonymous forum devoid of tone and actual human contact which would allow for a more clear interpretation of exactly
who someone is, Tekla has written you off as a drug-addled nutcase who would probably let her child starve to death, and myself as a bitter, miserable misanthrope who will smother it and shelter it and screw it up psychologically.
I see things differently. I lived with someone who had a foray into madness and paranoid schizophrenia that was induced by a volatile combination of meth and the wrong anti-depressants. I saw them and helped them crawl from rock bottom into being a very happy, functional, charming person (like they were in high school, when I knew them.) I have hope for just about anyone... issues CAN be overcome, I've seen it happen. Sometimes all people need is a little love and understanding, so that's what I try to give.
As for myself, well... people who have been around me my whole life don't fully understand or know me, but they do know my potential. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a person reading my posts on a forum (which are, again, toneless and predisposed to coming off as harsh and negative) doesn't know me, OR my potential. It's more likely they just enjoy sniping.
I do. I've actually raised a couple of kids to honorable adulthood and I know its not romantic, not cuddly, but hard demanding work that far from being fulfilling will try and test you to limits that you can't even imagine exist.
Yeah, you get moments. Watching my two graduate college was pretty cool. But the decades of constant work required to get them there, that often wasn't so cool.
Quote from: tekla on July 23, 2009, 12:56:57 PM
I do. I've actually raised a couple of kids to honorable adulthood and I know its not romantic, not cuddly, but hard demanding work that far from being fulfilling will try and test you to limits that you can't even imagine exist.
Yeah, you get moments. Watching my two graduate college was pretty cool. But the decades of constant work required to get them there, that often wasn't so cool.
I take it pretty seriously. That's probably why I have no plans to adopt or raise kids, because I don't trust myself to put them before my career.
My mother put my sister and I on the backburner in favor of her career after the divorce, and I think I'll always subconsciously resent her for it. I don't want to make the same mistake.
I'm glad your kids turned out well! I think parenthood brings out the best in people (or it SHOULD), and it's a trial too few really succeed at enduring properly.
Quote from: tekla on July 23, 2009, 12:56:57 PM
I do. I've actually raised a couple of kids to honorable adulthood and I know its not romantic, not cuddly, but hard demanding work that far from being fulfilling will try and test you to limits that you can't even imagine exist.
Yeah, you get moments. Watching my two graduate college was pretty cool. But the decades of constant work required to get them there, that often wasn't so cool.
I'd imagine. I'll stick with the dog.
I was very lucky in that both of my careers were pretty kid/family friendly. Once they were 8 or so they had laminates, knew everybody, (knew what they could or could not do) could hang at the club or the show, even be put to work (child labor laws do not apply in show biz, we love child labor). And in academia kids were always around, mine were library slaves for years, could run a xerox machine before they could ride a bike, and by the time they were like 8 or so again, could find any book I wanted in a library of over 2 million titles. They also learned how to be so cute that sorority girls would do it for them. That was fine by me, its a valuable life skill.
I didn't tie being maternal to gender, which I don't think it is.
Quote from: Mister on July 23, 2009, 01:01:56 PM
I'd imagine. I'll stick with the dog.
Dogs do tend to be somewhat less high-maintenance! :laugh: Crates, simple one-word commands, toilet training much easier and pouring kibble into a bowl a couple of times per day and having them eat it all up with no complaints as to consistency, etc as well as the unconditional devotion and love they express
are much easier to handle than the back-talk, doing of things that get on one's last nerve, ingratitude and whining and the ever-present idea that one is an idiot until the child gets to be about 27 and finds suddenly that Mom or Dad has gotten everso much smarter than they used to be can be all pretty trying things.
Learning disabilities, ADD, body-image problems, spats with friends, fights, filthy clothes that are perceived as being someone else's chore to clean, dirty diapers (if you're lucky) food-fights, bickering (constant among sibs) --- I suppose that's enough.
No, raising a child, let alone a couple or few, is no easy task and not one that will appeal past those first moments of carrying one in one's tummy, watching it's birth (and those things have huge downsides as well) or cuddling it after it's birth. Those moments are usually just that. The rest of the time it's hard and thankless work.
It's odd that this thread has taken this tack. My 35 year-old daughter is going through a divorce that is getting ugly. I am discovering that it isn't just him that is making it that way. I could strangle her for being so stupid and continuing to be stupid, but she's my daughter and I love her and will try to help her resolve this so she can get on with her life.
Would I have transitioned 40 years ago if I could have? Even with all the heartache the answer is no, because then I wouldn't have my daughter.
We aren't always rational beings. :P
- Kate
Hello out there. Im Lee andive never done this nor have i been on his page b4. not sure how to use it either.i am a femal that live the life of a male and is haing problems right now and i would like to speak to someone.
Just squeezing in my two cents on the whole maternal discussion...
I don't think that people who have no desire to bear children and raise them are necessarily male. For instance I have a girlfriend who is Bisexual and very much a female in every sense. Also has a strong preference towards guys. She does not want children at all and doesn't want much to do with them as far as raising family goes.
On the other had I have found the idea of impregnating a woman arousing, and protecting a family very attractive. I would desire my genealogy to continue if it was possible. But I would never want to be pregnant and I fear I would neglect my duties as a parent if I did end up having kids. Actually raising children does not interest me in the slightest.
I think feelings like mine are more paternal in nature and may be a stronger queue on whether or not you have a male psyche.
Quote from: thestory on July 24, 2009, 09:48:02 PM
Just squeezing in my two cents on the whole maternal discussion...
I don't think that people who have no desire to bear children and raise them are necessarily male. For instance I have a girlfriend who is Bisexual and very much a female in every sense. Also has a strong preference towards guys.
Interesting, you're lucky to have her because given you're intro (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,62813.msg411455.html#msg411455), you don't seem to have transitioned far yet. Her "strong preference" seems not to have been a problem.
Quote
On the other had I have found the idea of impregnating a woman arousing, and protecting a family very attractive. I would desire my genealogy to continue if it was possible. But I would never want to be pregnant and I fear I would neglect my duties as a parent if I did end up having kids. Actually raising children does not interest me in the slightest.
I think feelings like mine are more paternal in nature and may be a stronger queue on whether or not you have a male psyche.
None of this sounds natural to me...you're "aroused" by the idea of "impregnating a woman"? Are you on the level or is English not your first language? I don't recall ever hearing a natal male, natal female, MtF or FtM talk quite that way.
Quote from: omeara on July 24, 2009, 07:11:37 PM
Hello out there. Im Lee andive never done this nor have i been on his page b4. not sure how to use it either.i am a femal that live the life of a male and is haing problems right now and i would like to speak to someone.
You managed to register and navigate here and post on the forum...but you don't know how to use it? Hmm...yes, you "is haing problems" [sic].
General query to the ether: whatever happened to the FFToday trolling muppets I wonder?
Quote from: finewine on July 25, 2009, 01:04:14 AM
Interesting, you're lucky to have her because given you're intro (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,62813.msg411455.html#msg411455), you don't seem to have transitioned far yet. Her "strong preference" seems not to have been a problem.
I am lucky. Her being with me has ended up as quite the surprise.
Quote from: finewine on July 25, 2009, 01:04:14 AM
None of this sounds natural to me...you're "aroused" by the idea of "impregnating a woman"? Are you on the level or is English not your first language? I don't recall ever hearing a natal male, natal female, MtF or FtM talk quite that way.
English is my first language.
That portion is more of a personal feeling and perhaps 'aroused' is too strong a word. My apologies.
I was simply making a point, that instead of looking at what you don't feel ( The need to have children for instance. ) Look at what you are feeling and see if those conflict with your biological gender. Of course everyone is different and looking at how you feel about one topic isn't exactly the best way to go about discovering who you are. Those feelings could just be one more piece to the puzzle.
Since we're talking about kids, I know of quite a few married couples that never intend to have kids. In most cases it seems that the woman has no desire for them and they found a guy with the same view (riven_one's free translation of the status of friend's relationships).
So it is dangerous to fish in the "to be a real woman you must have maternal feelings" pond. A lot of GGs don't seem have these feelings.
Quote from: riven_one on July 26, 2009, 01:23:25 AM
Since we're talking about kids, I know of quite a few married couples that never intend to have kids. In most cases it seems that the woman has no desire for them and they found a guy with the same view (riven_one's free translation of the status of friend's relationships).
So it is dangerous to fish in the "to be a real woman you must have maternal feelings" pond. A lot of GGs don't seem have these feelings.
Maternal instincts does not translate to having a desire to raise children. It's more of a subconscious, sympathetic urge towards young.