Last night I saw the ABC Special about Chloe Prince, a man who transitioned to female. No biggie there but I wanted to see how ABC handled it.
During the show it was explained Ted (Chloe) was stung by a bee and because he was highly allergic ended up going to the emergency room. There they did a chromosome test and found Ted had Kleinfelter's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter%27s_syndrome) syndrome. He then followed that up with a visit to an endocrinologist.
Shortly after the bee sting incident Ted began to notice his body was feminizing, the story goes. The host of the show said the bee sting had caused the Kleinfelter's to kick in and Ted's body began producing estrogen. Ted soon began to grow breasts and show typical signs of feminization (often seen in MTFs on HRT).
Of course, all of this is the stuff of ->-bleeped-<- fantasies. "Gee, I don't know what happened! A bee stung me and all of the sudden I turned into a woman!" :o
What surprised me was ABC bought Chloe's story hook, line and sinker. A simple research would have shown the bee sting story was so full of holes it was transparent. Ted had fathered two children without medical intervention. He had none of the physical traits often associated with Kleinfelter's. The symptoms could not have been dormant only to surface decades later from the bee sting. And Kleinfelter's causes a low testosterone production, not a high estrogen production.
Yet, here she was on national TV, allowing the story she told her wife (probably to make it seem she wasn't responsible for making the decision to transition) to be told to millions of viewers.
It reminded me of another woman who, while married, had FFS and told her wife she was going in for a face lift (even though she was too young to need one). Then she continued to deceive her wife with other stories that she thought were covering up the fact she was on HRT, etc.
In both cases the wife was strung along by these women with the hopes they could preserve their marriage to their husbands, and that their husbands would remain their husbands, even if they looked a little different.
I can understand a CD spinning a few tales to avoid a confrontation because he will always remain he. But if you are transsexual and, especially if you are in the transition process, you are living a lie if you keep that from your family.
Sorry for being so harsh but when I see the wives and kids living on false hope the trans person is selling them, my heart goes out for the unsuspecting and very trusting family members who are being deceived.
If you are taking hormones, having feminizing surgeries or doing anything else to alter your appearance to the feminine because this is the way you want to live your life, how long do you think you can get away with it? Eventually it's going to come out and then your loved ones will discover how deceptive you've been and everything will be a lot worse. "Oh, what a tangled web we weave..."
I dabbled in hormones for a few months, but at that time there was no thoughts of transitioning. I later entered into therapy and there discovered I needed to do something. The time I first discussed HRT with the therapist I went home and told my wife. I owed her that. Whatever fallout there was I was prepared to accept it. But there was no way I was going to start down the path of transition and not tell my family before I made the first step.
Okay, I'm done venting. I just hope anyone thinking of transitioning will be open and honest with their family before going down the path. It's the least you can do for them if you love them.
I'll step off the sop box now.
Julie
If we had the karma still in-place, J, I'd give you 5 for that post.
And then to be on national tv and continue with that cover-story. *sigh* People are simply stupid.
Wonder what she'll be telling her wife when she decides she's gonna find a boyfriend? Another bee-sting that made her uncontrollably desire a man? :laugh:
Completely agree with you, Julie. Spot on!
Another bee-sting that made her uncontrollably desire a man?
Knowing men I'd suspect a roach bite or rat bite.
Good writing Julie.
Excellent post.
While this story is clearly a fabrication, I find it more incredulous that she decided to go on national television with it. Wouldn't she think someone would call her bluff? HAS anyone (besides us) pointed out the very obvious absurdity of the story?
Quote from: Nichole on July 22, 2009, 10:14:24 AM
Wonder what she'll be telling her wife when she decides she's gonna find a boyfriend? Another bee-sting that made her uncontrollably desire a man? :laugh:
Oh, she didn't wait for that to happen. The host asked her if she was interested in men and she just glowed as she admitted an attraction to men. They even showed her out with men. But it didn't end there. They also showed a clip where she met up with an old flame (GG). She said, on national TV, she felt a renewed love for her and maybe if she married her instead of her wife she wouldn't have transitioned. Can you imagine how her wife felt after hearing that?
Now that's a real class act!
Maybe we should ask ABC to find someone with real morals and ethics and feature them.
Julie
maybe if she married her instead of her wife she wouldn't have transitioned
No doubt the first girlfriend was made of bee repellent.
Wait... I thought she didn't transition and the magical bee fairy paid for SRS.
Wow. That's just nuts. I hope some one breaks the news to ABC and to that ladies poor wife. When I read news stories like this it makes me cringe just to think that any halfway intelligent viewer could see the high level of bull excrement and would then judge the trans community as a whole based on that.
I can see it now:
Them: "So your a transsexual huh?"
me: "Yes, but I didn't choose to be this way"
Them: "Oh, so you got 'stung by a bee' too?"
Me: "No, I made the choice to transition but I did not choose to be transgendered."
Them: "Sure. whatever you say,
dude."
Post Merge: July 22, 2009, 10:43:41 AM
Quote from: tekla on July 22, 2009, 10:31:38 AM
No doubt the first girlfriend was made of bee repellent.
Quote from: Mister on July 22, 2009, 10:35:23 AM
Wait... I thought she didn't transition and the magical bee fairy paid for SRS.
:laugh: :laugh: You guys crack me up!
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 22, 2009, 10:27:36 AM
... Maybe we should ask ABC to find someone with real morals and ethics and feature them.
Julie
Somehow I can't see ABC doing the Diogenes bit with the lamp and all. :laugh:
And I honestly don't begrudge people their fifteen minutes of fame or getting their book ghost-written and published, but I think one should at the least tell something that's somewhat believable.
Hormonal cascades do occur, especially in the intersex side of things. I have no doubt for instance that Zoe Brain's story is absolutely true. And she's been backing that with references to what's been happening and how since a few months after it began at numerous message boards and in her blog. She's been incredibly open and proof-producing throughout.
But, yes, this does seem more than fortuitous and very loosely (charitably characterized) documented and backed.
As for her wife? I imagine that the she's been desperate to keep her family together and wants to believe with all her heart that Chloe's been above-board.
But, look at it this way. Depending on what the divorce laws are in Ohio, she should stay until all the contracts are signed and whatever money's gonna come in has come and make sure that most of it gets stoked away. Then the divorce. :)
Hey! Maybe we could breed bees that produce estrogen instead of honey!!!
And for the guys, we could breed wasps that sting testosterone!
I think I'm onto something here! Let's see where did I put my genetic mutation tools...
-Sandy(ah, here they are...)
Quote from: Sandy on July 22, 2009, 11:19:15 AM
And for the guys, we could breed wasps that sting testosterone!
I prefer to call them 'syringes.'
Quote from: Sandy on July 22, 2009, 11:19:15 AM
Hey! Maybe we could breed bees that produce estrogen instead of honey!!!
And for the guys, we could breed wasps that sting testosterone!
I think I'm onto something here! Let's see where did I put my genetic mutation tools...
-Sandy(ah, here they are...)
So sorry, I'm allergic to bee stings. They have a transformational effect on my genitalia.
Quote from: Mister on July 22, 2009, 11:24:43 AM
I prefer to call them 'syringes.'
Obviously we have the same sorts of insects here that you do there. :laugh:
ROFL, a lot of the comments are cracking me up :p
Anyway, strange things can and do happen. Just like someone pointed ZoeB's had one of those moments and was like: ups? But this bee thing its clearly a way to evade responsibility for transitioning (at least thats how it looks to me)
Im tired of seeing some persons that use the excuse of being intersex to justify things. And I will repeat my opinion: being intersex doesnt mean you will have gender issues. But if you have them then your body issues are just that.
Just think how outraged those persons who are XXY and have a MALE gender feel when reading that article. What if they are married? Their wifes will doubt they for sure (well could happens)
TS claiming to be IS its a problem (well an annoyance at least), because those that are really IS can get discriminated.
I don't know. I was definitely awaiting you folks take on this. The Klinefelter's/bee story is obviously a lie. The wife though, geez something is seriously wrong with that person. Plastic surgery isn't cheap. Where did she think the money came from? Also, the wife was complaining about their family struggling to get by but doesn't handle any of the finances and doesn't work? Baffling to me. This is the USA. Every family has 2, 3 and even 4 jobs to just get by. I know people who literally work 100 hours per week. She seems like the classic "victim" personality.
My mother does the same thing. Hates her abusive alcoholic husband but won't leave him for anything. Always complains that shes got no where to go. My wife cut her off the last time and flat out told her that not only did we have room for her but my grandmother did as well. No shortage of places to go. Same thing with this woman. Divorce him already. Get a job. Your husband transitioned to be a woman. She lied to you over and over. She is going to leave your for a man any day. No matter how much you allegedly love someone you can't live with someone who deceives you.
Quote from: Zelane on July 22, 2009, 12:18:56 PM
Im tired of seeing some persons that use the excuse of being intersex to justify things. And I will repeat my opinion: being intersex doesnt mean you will have gender issues. But if you have them then your body issues are just that.
Just think how outraged those persons who are XXY and have a MALE gender feel when reading that article. What if they are married? Their wifes will doubt they for sure (well could happens)
TS claiming to be IS its a problem (well an annoyance at least), because those that are really IS can get discriminated.
Annoyance indeed. And particularly with the swelling of the evidence that it IS a kinda of IS condition: brain IS, that is. But, it's an old and definite ploy. Some apparently feel/have felt bolsters something or other for them. To each his or her own I suppose.
But in the discrimination sweepstakes I believe that IS and TS each have enough on our plates to not be in competition. :)
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 22, 2009, 10:27:36 AM
Oh, she didn't wait for that to happen. The host asked her if she was interested in men and she just glowed as she admitted an attraction to men. They even showed her out with men. But it didn't end there. They also showed a clip where she met up with an old flame (GG). She said, on national TV, she felt a renewed love for her and maybe if she married her instead of her wife she wouldn't have transitioned. Can you imagine how her wife felt after hearing that?
Now that's a real class act!
Maybe we should ask ABC to find someone with real morals and ethics and feature them.
Julie
But that wouldn't be interesting and people couldn't sit in judgment and feel superior to us.
Post Merge: July 22, 2009, 01:26:23 PM
I wanna add that I was sympathetic to Chloe. I liked her especially when she talked about men. I don't think she is a lesbian any more than her wife is and I thought that she came across as someone who desperately wanted to get out of that marriage but didn't know how because of extreme guilt. I think she loves her kids and wants to be a mother figure in the worst way but is forced to continue with the male role in the family. At least with my wife she is smart enough to take advantage and I pretty much wind up doing all the laundry, housework, yardwork and cooking. Chloe's wife seemed to have other ideas. I think she needs to move on and marry someone else. We all know it isn't hard for decent looking women to attract men. I always find it perplexing why so many women have such low self esteem. Men are pretty much elated if any woman pays them any attention.
I'm not without having some compassion for Chloe but the way she went about this was pretty unethical, for lack of a better word. I understand the need to transition but you can do so in a better fashion.
When they divorce her wife will find she paid $35K for Chloe's transition. And it was Chloe's transition that ultimately will lead to divorce. Had Chloe divorced then transitioned she'd have borne all the costs of the surgery, which I think is the right thing to do.
And making up that bee sting story? She should have just admitted she was trans and needed to do something about it. Maybe if she involved her wife in on the decision making process her wife would have handled things better.
I got the feeling Chloe was out to protect #1 first and foremost. She used whatever she thought would work so she could get what she wanted. Even though she acted like she was concerned for and loved her family first.
This was not a good example of trans people to throw out there into TV land.
Julie
Quote from: ginger39
Also, the wife was complaining about their family struggling to get by but doesn't handle any of the finances and doesn't work? Baffling to me. This is the USA. Every family has 2, 3 and even 4 jobs to just get by. I know people who literally work 100 hours per week. She seems like the classic "victim" personality.
That's not necessarily true. People have different priorities and some families choose a lower standard of living in order to do things differently. It's not CLOSe to true that
every family has at least two jobs.
And as for the story at hand, Rene was woeking until last December when she was laid off according to the blog.
Still doesn't explain where $70K came from but apparently there were two jobs while all that spending was going on.
I think Cami made a good but mostly unnoticed point here. And to expand on it, what I see happening is that the Right Wing crowd who opposes expanding protected classes to include TGs are going to do the leg work, and write up an "expose'" debunking the Bee story (assuming it is indeed BS) and then use Chloe as an example of the narcissism that, they will say, is common to EVERY TS person who transitions in spite of the impact on those around them.
When that happens, Chloe's professed urge to help us will in fact have dealt us a blow.
I also watched that show last night, and the bee story sure sounded like a cover up. I only know what i've read about the Kleinfelter's syndrome, which is that it doesn't just "come on" as described in the show.
I wonder what kind of bee that was? :)
And the wife was unaware of how much Chloe had spent on surgery. Wow.
And Chloe positively glows when she talks about men noticing her.
A lot of deception going on there. I feel sorry for the wife. I suspect that there i going to be a nasty divorce in her future. Obviously Chloe is struggling with trying to balance her new life with her old life. I sure hope that they can work out their new life, but somehow I doubt it.
Quote from: Laura Hope on July 22, 2009, 02:26:55 PM
...
I think Cami made a good but mostly unnoticed point here. And to expand on it, what I see happening is that the Right Wing crowd who opposes expanding protected classes to include TGs are going to do the leg work, and write up an "expose'" debunking the Bee story (assuming it is indeed BS) and then use Chloe as an example of the narcissism that, they will say, is common to EVERY TS person who transitions in spite of the impact on those around them.
When that happens, Chloe's professed urge to help us will in fact have dealt us a blow.
I agree (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,62627.msg410664.html#msg410664), Laura. And all of that sort of thing adds up and becomes the presented truth as Serano has pointed it out in
Whipping Girl and other essays of hers.
I feel for what Chloe has experienced and I can imagine that her fear may have caused her to do and report things that she thought would be more easily "accepted." But, no one but no one ever seems to understand that when they're out to undermine the "idea" of a group of people who they fear and loathe regardless.
Of course in that regard I suppose we could say that these discussions simply point the way for those who'd use that piece to do exactly what we imagine they might.
It's always a difficult line, pursuing what someone may have been thinking, or not.
Let's see if I can start the right wing spin...
"Ted Prince is a homosexual man who lied to his wife, stole her share of their retirement money and went off half way around the world to have a sex change operation so he can have sex with men. And his wife and sons have to live with the devastation this selfish homosexual man caused his family to suffer. This is why we need to put an end to homosexuality. It's God's will!"
How did I do?
Julie
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 22, 2009, 03:03:37 PM
Let's see if I can start the right wing spin...
"Ted Prince is a homosexual man who lied to his wife, stole her share of their retirement money and went off half way around the world to have a sex change operation so he can have sex with men. And his wife and sons have to live with the devastation this selfish homosexual man caused his family to suffer. This is why we need to put an end to homosexuality. It's God's will!"
How did I do?
Julie
Sounds about right. Sigh. :-\
Again, I concur. Sounds all too right to me and it's frustrating as hell.
I hate that so many of us feel like we can never allow anyone to know, but I am not certain how well we can make a different story without sane and usual TSes becoming more visible. Instead the fearful and those wishing some form of notoriety get the ink.
Is the show you are talking about available for streaming or download? It sounds interesting and id like to see it myself
I may be alone in this, but often I have let my mind wander and have hoped for some type of freak answer to explain my issues. I hoped for a freak accident that would take away my genitals. Or that I end up in the hospital and they do the operation on me by accident...and oh well.
A bee sting? That is pretty original. I wished I would have thought about that. A spider bite maybe...but that is supposed to turn you into a super hero not a woman. I have to give this person an originality ribbon for sure. But I also have to call BS.
I don't want to viewed as TS and I want an excuse for it that would be easier to understand. I want it to not look like its my fault or that I chose to do this. Without physical signs, a real understanding of GID and without really knowing we are right in a self diagnosed mess, it does look like a choice.
But it is what it is. It won't change itself and it won't go away. It has made me suicidal. I can't explain it, it just is. No matter how bad I want a reason, it just has not really been established in medical science. There is no clear cut smoking gun that society, religions and everybody that doubts is going to swallow.
I understand why this person did it. But it was wrong, wrong, wrong. ABC should have never allowed that to air. Bee sting my butt. That beeotch (pun intended) is crazy and spun up some wild tale that will turn into a camp fire story and a fable.
I know I'm in denial and I will admit it. Chloe needs to do the same.
To me, it sounds like there is an awful lot of deception going on. Chloe is lying to herself (or trying to), and lying to her family. ABC is lying to the public by taking the story at face value. That can lead to more lying, as in Laura's probable scenario.
Moral of the story: Be honest with yourself. It's hard, but you and everyone else will be better off in the long run.
(I will now return to dusting my own house. ;))
- Kate
QuoteI hoped for a freak accident that would take away my genitals
have you taken up chainsaw juggling yet?
Quote from: Lori on July 23, 2009, 07:31:15 AM
I may be alone in this, but often I have let my mind wander and have hoped for some type of freak answer to explain my issues. I hoped for a freak accident that would take away my genitals. Or that I end up in the hospital and they do the operation on me by accident...and oh well.
A bee sting? That is pretty original. I wished I would have thought about that. A spider bite maybe...but that is supposed to turn you into a super hero not a woman. I have to give this person an originality ribbon for sure. But I also have to call BS.
I don't want to viewed as TS and I want an excuse for it that would be easier to understand. I want it to not look like its my fault or that I chose to do this. Without physical signs, a real understanding of GID and without really knowing we are right in a self diagnosed mess, it does look like a choice.
But it is what it is. It won't change itself and it won't go away. It has made me suicidal. I can't explain it, it just is. No matter how bad I want a reason, it just has not really been established in medical science. There is no clear cut smoking gun that society, religions and everybody that doubts is going to swallow.
I understand why this person did it. But it was wrong, wrong, wrong. ABC should have never allowed that to air. Bee sting my butt. That beeotch (pun intended) is crazy and spun up some wild tale that will turn into a camp fire story and a fable.
I know I'm in denial and I will admit it. Chloe needs to do the same.
Well, you are definitely not alone on this. "Oh please God, make something happen to me so I will become a woman!" or something like that. Heard stuff like that dozens of times and even tried to make up a few myself.
What that does is take away the responsibility for making the decision to transition. And it takes away the ability of others to blame you for making that choice which in turn makes it much harder for them to treat you like crap. "Hey, it isn't my fault I turned into a woman! Now I'll have to suffer with this the rest of my life."
While the bee sting may have been somewhat clever I've heard some whoppers that are so complex it would take a geneticist, psychiatrist, endocrinologist and their assistants months to disprove, if it was even possible. The bee sting/Kleinfelter's story could be disproved in about ten minutes.
In all the stories I've heard and made up myself, I've never heard any story that had an air of believability to it. But that isn't saying there isn't one out there. So we'll keep trying!
Julie
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 23, 2009, 09:36:57 AM
While the bee sting may have been somewhat clever I've heard some whoppers that are so complex it would take a geneticist, psychiatrist, endocrinologist and their assistants months to disprove, if it was even possible.
Julie
Oh please do share!!
I remember we've had a few on this site that were mysteriously IS and passed after 1 month of hrt and were forced to go full time at 4 months. ::)
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 23, 2009, 09:36:57 AM
... The bee sting/Kleinfelter's story could be disproved in about ten minutes.
I took the step yesterday of emailing my biology/science source and got a return this morning. They thought that perhaps the story was true and definitely thought it would take more than 10 minutes to disprove it.
QuoteThere are about a dozen ways (in theory) a change can happen - but most of them have never been observed. 45x/46xy is one, specific damage to the pituitary another. 47xxy plus shutting down of testosterone was one that was theorized, but not observed before. So it fits.
I've given up on saying "X is impossible". I've seen so many X's - mostly not to do with Intersex conditions - where "1 in 10 million" was used as a synonym for "impossible", yet that would mean 32 cases on average in the US.
So, although the story certainly sounds like it has a certain deception about it, perhaps it does not.
I'd imagine that to do any disproving would require at the least medical records of the visit and the treatments afforded to Chloe at that time. Fat chance of ever getting those records released to prove or disprove much of anything.
Seems that lots of stuff, sometimes medical treatment, can indeed, "set-off" cascades.
Kleinfelter's (XXY) is not a dormant type condition any more than XX or XY is. So the story about a bee sting "kicking in" the Kleinfelter's discredits the story teller. Add to that the deception regarding taking out $70K from their retirement money, the statement about how she may not have transitioned if she married an old flame and the heightened interest in men (from the pictures it looked like she was already dating them) and you have the makings of someone spinning a very tall tale.
If it walks like a duck...
Julie
Perhaps not everyone want to be on TV. But the people who do will do ANYTHING to get there. That's my experience at least, but watch American Idol or America's Got Talent if you don't believe me.
I haven't seen the episode yet, so I can't comment on the other issues. Except the money which has been pretty well covered, and if indeed it is as discussed that's unethical no matter what the bee did.
As for the medical part, I'm not going to assume she's lying about that - I'm simply out of my depth to guess. But IF she's lying then she's set up a perfect pitch down the middle for our opponents to knock out of the park.
If I ever find an online version to watch I'll maybe comment on the other stuff then.
Quote from: Laura Hope on July 23, 2009, 01:26:54 PM
If I ever find an online version to watch I'll maybe comment on the other stuff then.
Try here (http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/MindMoodNews/story?id=8126749&page=1) and click through the segments on the upper-right to get each part.
Thanks. the ABC window never wanted to get past the loading stage even after I installed their player.
Just in case anybody is doubting anything that Julie is saying here I dug out one of my old genetics manuals and here is a blurb:
XXY - This condition is called Klinefelter syndrom. Affected persons are male. They tend to be tall, do NOT undergo normal sexual maturation, are STERILE, and in some cases have enlargement of the breasts. Mild mental impairment is common.
See, this is a genetic thing because the affected person has an extra chromosome, the result of a non-disjunction failure during meiosis and have it their whole lives. It can't be turned on at any time. My reproductive physiology book says that "individuals have small external genitalia, crptorchid testes, and are mentally retarded."
As I see it Chloe doesn't exhibit any of these symptoms and it can be easily proven because Chloe obviously wasn't sterile and fathered 2 beautiful children who are both obviously normal.
Now, upon further research I find that it not only is theoretically possible for XXY males to father children, obviously they would only be able to father boys, but that the major impediment is low sperm counts which can be treated to some extent. Also, the vast majority of XXY males never develop the syndrome. They are normal except for being slightly behind in language areas. So now I am changing my mind a bit. It is not likely but may be possible as both kids are boys. If one would have been a girl then it would have been 100% impossible.
Quote
As I see it Chloe doesn't exhibit any of these symptoms and it can be easily proven because Chloe obviously wasn't sterile and fathered 2 beautiful children who are both obviously normal. I just don't see how he could ever father any children if her story was true.
Oh no? I think you're missing a couple.
Quote from: ginger39 on July 23, 2009, 09:46:46 PM
Just in case anybody is doubting anything that Julie is saying here I dug out one of my old genetics manuals and here is a blurb:
XXY - This condition is called Klinefelter syndrom. Affected persons are male. They tend to be tall, do NOT undergo normal sexual maturation, are STERILE, and in some cases have enlargement of the breasts. Mild mental impairment is common.
See, this is a genetic thing because the affected person has an extra chromosome, the result of a non-disjunction failure during meiosis and have it their whole lives. It can't be turned on at any time. My reproductive physiology book says that "individuals have small external genitalia, crptorchid testes, and are mentally retarded."
Quote from: Mister on July 23, 2009, 09:49:40 PM
Oh no? I think you're missing a couple.
Not sure what you are driving at but I changed my post a little before seeing this. I still don't think that Chloe has Klinefelters but it is possible. And people with XXY do not necessarily have Klinefelters anyway. Most are just regular people with no symptoms. If Chloe is XXY then she falls into that category and not the category with the syndrome. Just my opinion. But it is possible to be XXY and have kids. Not really possible to have Klinefelters and have kids though. The doctor may have just given Chloe bad information. As I said earlier though, I am highly sympathetic to Chloe and the position she is in. It really is an impossible situation.
Quote from: ginger39 on July 23, 2009, 10:07:01 PM
Not sure what you are driving at
check bolded text in my 1st reply.
Quote from: Mister on July 23, 2009, 10:09:32 PM
check bolded text in my 1st reply.
I guess I am still not following you. I saw the bolded text but thought it was obvious that Chloe didn't have any of those situations, but when I read further with more up to date materials (my gentics book is so 90's) it was stated that many people are born XXY and are perfectly normal. Only people actually with Klinefelters exhibit those characteristics. Chloe obviously does not have Klinefelters but may in fact be XXY. In essence, she may have been told something incorrect by her doctor. That is totally possible. When my wife lost eyesight in one of her eyes her doctors seemed to be pretty inept to me. Even the big time specialists from Dallas. I also want to retract a statement earlier that any child would have to be a boy because XXX girls do exist.
I think what Mister is driving at is where you said:
As I see it Chloe doesn't exhibit any of these symptoms and it can be easily proven because Chloe obviously wasn't sterile and fathered 2 beautiful children who are both obviously normal. I just don't see how he could ever father any children if her story was true.
He was implying that you missed a few of the indicators that Chloe does exhibit, those being mental impairment and mentally retarded. Any one that would think this story about a bee sting causing all this to be believable must be lacking in the mental aptitude department.
Well, I watched it finally last night and, laying aside the bee story which I simply don't have the scientific knowledge to comment on with any sort of certainty, the only other thing I found troubling was the money issue.
The whole business about a little doubt when she met the old girlfriend and such...I don't think momentary doubt is a foreign thing to us. In fact, most of the piece I really related to. Having a wife who wants to stay together...who still "hear's the voice" of the man she married...but who can't handle "being a lesbian" and etc - all that sounds real familiar (and thus authentic) to me
But the money thing troubles me a lot. I don't see how I could manage to spend 70K and NOT at a minimum let my wife know what I was doing. MAYBE I'd be "selfish" enough to insist I HAD to do it but I wouldn't do it by deception.
Quote from: ginger39 on July 23, 2009, 09:46:46 PMNow, upon further research I find that it not only is theoretically possible for XXY males to father children, obviously they would only be able to father boys, but that the major impediment is low sperm counts which can be treated to some extent. Also, the vast majority of XXY males never develop the syndrome. They are normal except for being slightly behind in language areas. So now I am changing my mind a bit. It is not likely but may be possible as both kids are boys. If one would have been a girl then it would have been 100% impossible.
In the story the narrator said the bee sting kicked in the Kleinfelter's and caused an increase in estrogen production which led to Chloe exhibiting female traits. Kleinfelter's causes a reduced testosterone production not an increased estrogen production. Later in the show the narrator said Chloe has to take large doses of female hormones. What happened to the mysterious estrogen production that, among other things, caused "Ted's" breasts to grow?
Yes, your research lends some credibility to the possibility of Chloe being XXY but all the other facts presented in the show lead to an overwhelmingly strong case that she just made this whole thing up so she didn't have to accept responsibility for choosing to transition.
That's the end of my closing argument to the jury. Would Vince Bugliosi approve? ;)
Julie
Quote from: Julie Marie on July 24, 2009, 12:17:12 PM
In the story the narrator said the bee sting kicked in the Kleinfelter's and caused an increase in estrogen production which led to Chloe exhibiting female traits. Kleinfelter's causes a reduced testosterone production not an increased estrogen production. Later in the show the narrator said Chloe has to take large doses of female hormones. What happened to the mysterious estrogen production that, among other things, caused "Ted's" breasts to grow?
Yes, your research lends some credibility to the possibility of Chloe being XXY but all the other facts presented in the show lead to an overwhelmingly strong case that she just made this whole thing up so she didn't have to accept responsibility for choosing to transition.
That's the end of my closing argument to the jury. Would Vince Bugliosi approve? ;)
Julie
Julie, I totally agree that Chloe's story is bogus and puts us all in a bad light. We all know that being Trans is not really a choice, but if it were what would be wrong with that? Chloe had no need to justify or qualify changing her body parts. There are only 3 people that she owe's anything at all to in my opinion.
Chloe had no need to justify or qualify changing her body parts.
The entire point of such shows it to play 'justify your existence' and you should not play the game if you can't do it. However, most of us would answer that question with a middle finger - hence, we don't get on those shows.
I def heard alarm bells when I thought about the reality of the bee story. As someone who is a "variant" (I have reifenstein's syndrome) I certainly was not able to father children lord knows I tried. And there were a lot of other things I wasn't able to do. But I still took transition as its own thing, made my decision, and took responsibility for it. Chloe is publically TS, and works a site - pink something - so... I generally notice that people who are TS professionally are a bit weird. For me, the last thing I would want is the attention. I would never deny my past but I think the more normal experience is to keep it a bit under the cuff until needed.