i'm not trying to start a debate, discredit any other transitions, or make myself feel superior. having any kind of gender identity disorder is not easy no matter what your birth sex is, but i honestly feel that overall the transition from male to female is the hardest. and i'm not saying that just because i am a male to female, but there's more prejudices, passing difficulties, and different procedures required to become physically female by acceptable standards. in the worst case scenario, a male to female could have permanent scalp hair loss problems that don't get fixed no matter what they have tried. a wig could be their only solution. a male to female may also have to worry about facial femenization surgery, electrolysis, and having to change their voice surgically or by practice. it also is not a guarantee that they will lose any height or all their body hair from hormones. there's also the bodys structure that does not get significantly smaller and more petite. a female to male on the opposite side has more successful passing rates. they have the possibility of passing as a pre pubertial male if they bind down their breasts, wear boys clothes, and have their hair cut short. the surgeries they have to get are bilateral mastectomy, removal of female organs, and srs. i do understand that female to males are not generally pleased with the results of the bilateral mastectomy and srs, as both are important parts of "manhood" in society. other than those three surgeries, testosterone will give them all the feautures they need to be masculine. being a masculine female is as well definately more accepted than a feminine male, so that generally makes a female to males transition more accepted in society. i really hope this doesn't turn into an arguement. like i said before, i'm not discrediting anyone. i just want to know the truth, rather than to pretend something is that really isn't.
i am just laughing my ass off at this post.
What does it matter? It is not a race.
Quote from: Nicky on July 29, 2009, 10:29:48 PM
What does it matter? It is not a race.
that's not the point
So what is?
Personally I think we are comparing apples and bannanas here.
Quote from: Nicky on July 29, 2009, 10:34:54 PM
So what is?
i just want to know if anyone else considers it acceptable to say that overall, it's hardest to be male to female.
Personally, it is all about the attitude. If your attitude is that you will do what you need to do, you can overcome any problem. FtM's have their own problems and we have ours.
From things I have read or seen, MtF SRS is a lot more advanced the that for our brothers. But MtFs have to face male pattern baldness, facial hair removal. FtMs face double mastectomies, historectomies. Each has a grueling set of surgeries, hormone therapy, and gender therapy.
Just having to deal with GID is hard enough and then comes the surgeries. Some never do get to the point that the world thinks we pass. But as long as we feel that we have made it, that is all that really matters.
Do FtMs have it easier than MtFs? No each is something that only the strong will survive.
Janet
Truth is it depends on many factors, thus making it all but impossible to put it into two huge groups and say one is harder than the other.
It's hilarious because whoever writes these posts, they've always got it the hardest.
No, I have it the hardest.
I agree wholeheartedly. ;D
Quote from: tekla on July 29, 2009, 10:56:21 PM
No, I have it the hardest.
yeah, i read in the paper today that it's real tough to be you. how do you manage?
O.K. Since nobody else is cooperating, for the sake of discussion, I have to say I agree with you. For most people MtF is a more difficult transition than for FtM. The only caveat to that is the fact that if one is very lucky and/or very wealthy it is possible for the MtF to reach a point where 100% stealthness is possible. Unless some major medical breakthroughs occur, FtMs will never have the luxury of being in an intimate relationship without having to explain their anatomical differences. But then, what kind of relationship can one have of one can't share something as profoundly life-changing as one's transition?
how do you manage?
I'd like to think that my legendary sense of modesty, and my world-class lack of ego sustains me in such hard times.
QuoteFtMs will never have the luxury of being in an intimate relationship without having to explain their anatomical differences.
I haven't tried, since I'm in a monogamous relationship, but i'm pretty sure I could get laid and not have to explain anything.
i'm pretty sure I could get laid and not have to explain anything.
You live in SF, all you have to do to get laid there is be breathing, and that's not even a strict requirement.
But as for transition, so much depends on other factors, starting with general health (both physical and mental), income and savings/investments, type of work you do, where you live, social status, family support, religion type stuff, levels of education - just to start with.
Alright Princess.
We have it so much better than you. We are so lucky. I thank god every day that if I had to be trans, he made me ftm instead of mtf. I am beyond blessed to be ftm. Is that what you wanted to hear?
Hasn't this been covered several times before? =l
Nothing good can come out of these discussions. Yes, MTFs have several procedures to go through, yes FTMs have a bigger bill to pay when they have their surgeries and they are not as good. I'm certain FTMs don't want to be seen as masculine women and MTFs wish not to be viewed as feminine men.
When you start bringing up topics like this, you're automatically suggesting that someone has to have it worse and if people start accepting that then we'll have another form of elitism to deal with in the community. I personally think it boils down to the individual and their circumstance, not whether or not they're FTM or MTF.
Quote from: Princess on July 29, 2009, 10:39:36 PM
i just want to know if anyone else considers it acceptable to say that overall, it's hardest to be male to female.
Well, I don't think it's acceptable.
On this site, I don't think such a discussion is pertinent, appropriate, or productive. Despite your assurances that you are not promoting argument or elitism, I think that this OP skates dangerously close to violating rule 10 of the TOS.
Anyway, there is no way to quantify difficulty of transition; it is purely subjective and varies from person to person. To my mind, debating which group has it worse is a pointless endeavor.
My HRT cured my acne, theirs causes it. >:-)
:angel:
Quote from: Monty on July 30, 2009, 01:02:18 AM
I personally think it boils down to the individual and their circumstance, not whether or not they're FTM or MTF.
Yup I'd agree with that.
Some people have an easier transition than others; FtM or MtF does not matter. I would consider myself to be someone who has had an easier transition because I started transitioning young, I have a supportive family and friends, and I live in an accepting area. There are people who did not have these privileges and their transition would be harder than mine whether they were FtM or MtF. Some people have also probably had an easier transition than I. Not to mention also that every individual reacts to a situation differently, so anyone can have a harder or easier time dealing with anything, simply because that's the way they react to it.
I don't really get the point of this post to be honest. I'll bet that if you stop talking about how hard things are though, you'll find that it actually gets easier as you stop thinking about it so much.
Quote from: Arch on July 30, 2009, 01:23:44 AM
Well, I don't think it's acceptable.
On this site, I don't think such a discussion is pertinent, appropriate, or productive. Despite your assurances that you are not promoting argument or elitism, I think that this OP skates dangerously close to violating rule 10 of the TOS.
Anyway, there is no way to quantify difficulty of transition; it is purely subjective and varies from person to person. To my mind, debating which group has it worse is a pointless endeavor.
You're awesome, Arch. :)
Quote from: Autumn on July 30, 2009, 01:40:57 AM
My HRT cured my acne, theirs causes it. >:-)
:angel:
I'm beginning to think I'll never be free of mine, lol.
Quote from: Chamillion on July 30, 2009, 01:42:52 AMI don't really get the point of this post to be honest. I'll bet that if you stop talking about how hard things are though, you'll find that it actually gets easier as you stop thinking about it so much.
Definitely. The more we focus on what we don't have, the worse it tends to get. And it can be unfortunate if you have too much time on your hands to think about this. Once we start thinking down the vein of who has it easier, the more prone we are to becoming bitter.
I think of it as...you get some lose some....
FTM has a chance at not getting a working penis
MTF has a pretty good chance at a working vagina
i think it's quite even...
Some mtf can officially pass as real women and society does not know there pass and actually get away with sex....
FTM doesn't have all that
so i think its even
Which is deeper, the Mariana or Tonga trench?
The Mariana of course but in the end what does it matter? They are both bloody deep trenches ;D
Quote from: Monty on July 30, 2009, 01:53:17 AM
You're awesome, Arch. :)
Gee, thanks, Monty. You're not so bad yourself. :P
Quote from: Nero on July 30, 2009, 12:52:26 AM
Alright Princess.
We have it so much better than you. We are so lucky. I thank god every day that if I had to be trans, he made me ftm instead of mtf. I am beyond blessed to be ftm. Is that what you wanted to hear?
i'd expect more maturity from a staff member.
Quote from: Princess on July 30, 2009, 12:56:35 PM
i'd expect more maturity from a staff member.
I don't see what's immature about giving you what you were asking for. You wanted someone to agree with you.
I too was wondering what the point was.
It's not like we get to choose! ;D
The process of transition is by definition, subjective, and really doesn't lend itself to being measured on a hardness scale *between people*.
-Sandy
Quote from: Nero on July 30, 2009, 01:04:00 PM
I don't see what's immature about giving you what you were asking for. You wanted someone to agree with you.
i did not say i
wanted someone to agree with me. i asked
does anyone else agree with me. i tried to have a mature discussion, but you got all offended.