Julie and I were looking at LGBT friendly areas to some day move to and started with West Hollywood, CA. We were blown away at what you couldn't get for $500K. Mostly what you could get was condos, typically 1 bedroom. If you wanted a house you'd better have close to a million to spend.
Then I remembered a documentary I saw that chronicled a run down neighborhood (I think it was outside Boston or Philly?) that gays populated and eventually it became known as a gay neighborhood. The property value soared to match or exceed some of the better surrounding areas. A local Realtor was interviewed and he said "when the gays move in the property value goes up".
The more I looked, it seemed "affordable" housing was in areas known not to be LGBT accepting. And if you want LGBT accepting you will pay more for real estate.
So what does all this mean? ::)
You'd think depressed areas would be clamoring to get LGBT folks to move in!
Julie
QuoteSo what does all this mean?
Do not try to live in a LGBT accepting area. Your sex life is non of anyone's business.
QuoteJulie and I were looking at LGBT friendly areas to some day move to and started with West Hollywood, CA. We were blown away at what you couldn't get for $500K. Mostly what you could get was condos, typically 1 bedroom. If you wanted a house you'd better have close to a million to spend.
one answer. it's North Hollywood?
And of course the property values rise. Because someone is taking pride in their home.
Janet
Places that are accepting of LGBT folk typically are accepting of diversity in general, and therefore foster more enterprise and development, whether in terms of business or the arts. Typically queer folk live whereever they can -- not upscale at all, on average -- and those places that are more welcoming become chic as a result of all the interesting people moving in. Then the poor queer folk, artists, and envelope-pushing entrepreneurs have to find somewhere new.
It's just supply and demand. Weho is a very safe (for a large city) area. The mainly-LGBT population that live there take care of it, watch out for each other and elect politicians who are in the community. Crime tends to stay out of areas where money is, sometimes. A lot of people desire to live in this part of Los Angeles so it drives up prices. $500K in Weho gets you a studio or 1 bed, 1 bath, 400 sq. ft. place. The weather is the same most of the time...70's/sunny/no humidity. It's expensive but I wouldn't trade it for the world! I don't mind living in the living room of a 1 bed/1 bath place and paying $800 a month for the safety of my area and the stuff to do. You just can't beat Weho for entertainment :) Meghan
PS, Weho still isn't near as expensive as Castro in SF...right Tekla?
That's funny to hear... when the ex and I were looking to move somewhere in L.A., West Hollywood was the cheapest place outside of the San Fernando Valley... though that was for apartment rentals. I'm not sure whether glbt folk generally populate more upscale places, but I have noticed there's a far larger concentration in cities... probably due in some part to the greater availability of resources.
SD
I read that a lot of traditional "gayborhoods" like the Castro and other places struggle with maintaining a gay identity precisely because of the degree of gentrification.
Nothing against our wonderful allies, but lots of times people move in so that they can live in a "diverse area," which results in soaring property values that prevent the neighborhood from attracting new, younger gays and lesbians, and depending on how property taxes work in your area can also force existing residents out. And so the gay identity of the community dies.
But then again, that's the lifeblood of cities and people who live in community: neighborhoods change as people flow. Gotta learn to flow with it.
I'm trying to turn our little neck of the woods LGBT friendly. :D
Pat and I do nothing to hide our affection for each other and all our neighbors know us as "partners", or "the girls", or maybe they even whisper "lesbians" when we're out of earshot. :D I've been tempted to paint either the rainbow flag on the garage door or some other rainbow motif image.
At the grocery store the other day I noticed a similar couple I had not seen before. Maybe we're attracting the gay crowd. I'll let you know if my house appreciates in value!
-Sandy
Quote from: MeghanAndrews on August 11, 2009, 12:24:45 AMThe mainly-LGBT population that live there take care of it, watch out for each other and elect politicians who are in the community.
in the case of Hillcrest in San Diego, that's exactly the case. The place was a real crapfest and was really run down for years. when the LGBT started moving into the area they cleaned up the area, opened new businesses and really made a nice place to live for themselves. now it's a model community for the rest of San Diego (and more).
Quote from: MeghanAndrews on August 11, 2009, 12:24:45 AM
It's just supply and demand. Weho is a very safe (for a large city) area. The mainly-LGBT population that live there take care of it, watch out for each other and elect politicians who are in the community. Crime tends to stay out of areas where money is, sometimes. A lot of people desire to live in this part of Los Angeles so it drives up prices. $500K in Weho gets you a studio or 1 bed, 1 bath, 400 sq. ft. place. The weather is the same most of the time...70's/sunny/no humidity. It's expensive but I wouldn't trade it for the world! I don't mind living in the living room of a 1 bed/1 bath place and paying $800 a month for the safety of my area and the stuff to do. You just can't beat Weho for entertainment :) Meghan
PS, Weho still isn't near as expensive as Castro in SF...right Tekla?
Not at all. Friends of mine just bought a 2bed/1bath condo 1 block from castro. $945k.
Real estate in California- at least coastal CA- is pricey.
QuoteNot at all. Friends of mine just bought a 2bed/1bath condo 1 block from castro. $945k.
How about 4 bedroom 6 bath Mc Mansion over 6500 sq ft in a gated community with 3 acres 3 car garage with many extras, built to super environmental standards. all for 600K?
Golly gosh, I've never compared, though the Castro is pretty spendy. But both are in California, which is more surreal estate then real estate.
At any rate, of a lot of this is DINK* deal, not necessarily limited to gays, but lots of gay couples do qualify as the DINK deal.
Urban sociology term meaning: Double income, no kids - i.e. lots of disposable income, and seeing things that are trendy more than good schools for the kids.
Quote from: lisagurl on August 11, 2009, 01:35:58 PM
How about 4 bedroom 6 bath Mc Mansion over 6500 sq ft in a gated community with 3 acres 3 car garage with many extras, built to super environmental standards. all for 600K?
where?
Quote from: lisagurl on August 11, 2009, 04:44:14 PM
MS
Well, that makes sense. It's MS. Who wants to live there?
Quote from: Mister on August 11, 2009, 04:45:02 PM
Well, that makes sense. It's MS. Who wants to live there?
Clean air, mild winters, fresh produce, green forests, no traffic jams, low cost of living, and the birth place of Elvis.
Great. it's still Mississippi.
Awesome.
I'll take somewhere that has a decent concerts, some theater, good restaurants, isn't so sweltering hot you can't go outside in the summer, isn't dead flat, is within reasonable driving distance to some of the best lift-serviced skiing, climbing, and generally being outside on the planet, and, oh yeah, where nobody cares whom I date and I might actually find a nice girl to settle down with.
Sorry, I'm not really that into McMansions. Frankly, I don't need all that much space to keep air-conditioned in the sweltering summers. And I prefer the 30,000 acres of beautiful open space walking distance from my apartment over any back yard in MS.
I really don't get how people can stand to live there -- and I've met a few who did and loathed it, and a few natives who liked it a lot -- but if it's you thing, by all means, stay put and enjoy it.
I suppose its possible to live without a Coast, but why? I got mountains, skiing five hours away, the beach is 30, the redwoods, and the deserts. I'm not much into LA, I like other places in Cali more - I've lived in the Midwest, nice folk and all that - cheep, sure. But I'd rather live here. And its OK if you don't. Everyone can't.
World-class (and world-famous) rock climbing a bike ride away, excellent skiing two hours away (or 45 minutes for the local hill), and trailheads to some spectacular peaks with great hiking, scrambling, rock climbing, couloirs, etc a little more than an hour away, plus excellent white water kayaking all around (not my thing), desert canyon country four hours away, etc., and the fact that you can find nice crags and beautiful hikes any weekend of the summer where you won't see another soul all day make the lack of an ocean just barely tolerable.
Mississippi????
Just wanted to say that.
But yeah... California is a great place, if you have the money. As soon as I do, count me in. And yes, the coast is crazy expensive.
If you're really happy and love living where you do, the money doesn't matter. If you hate where you live a reduced rent is not going to make it all better.
Where I live, not to far from Portland, I am 40 minutes from Mt. Hood, 1 1/2 hours to the Pacific coast, and 10 minutes from the Columbia River. Winters are usually mild, and summers are usually not overly hot. But the draw back is the rain. In the Pacific Northwest, we do get rain and often. In fact it is raining now and it is mid summer.
But many of the GLBT community live in downtown Portland. Mostly I think because of Portland State College. And the Q center, a meeting house/community center I guess you would call it. Myles would know, because he lives here too. Mostly it is clean and generally quite.
Janet
Well Portland is kinda the example of a 'gay district' that didn't blow up the property values.
And having a McMansion - or even the real thing - is of little interest to me. Hell, I'd love a beach shack (except out in Cali they run into the millions of dollars) or a cabin in West Sonoma County under the redwoods, or the classic two bedroom Victorian flat in SF. Anything more than that is just an excuse to accumulate stuff.
When I was in Cali I was in a small town on the coast with a house that had awesome views, property, by the golf course. Now I live in NE Portland and love it. Where I live is definitely coming around (the Alberta Arts District) and is definitely GLBT friendly. The Q center just moved to North Portland about 3 miles from my house. Houses are reasonable (compared to California) and have not "crashed" in my neighborhood as it is where people want to live and a lot of demand not so much supply. I would definitely call my neighborhood an up and coming community with diversity. People are investing in thier houses and making it a great neighborhood and community to live in.
Myles
Here's another way to ask the original question...
Is there a higher percentage of phobes who live in middle or lower class areas?
When we talk about the people who live in upscale LGBT areas we typically hear educated, diverse, open minded, things like that. What you don't hear is phobic. So is it logical to conclude phobes are...
Well, you tell me. ;)
Julie
Well, speaking from the other coast (Atlanta and formerly Boston) I can say that in the past 9 years living here in Metro Atlanta, I've noticed property values skyrocket. Yes there is a large GLBT population here, but then there is a large population of almost any group you want to name here. Atlanta is a very diverse metro area who's population has, or rather had, been growing very rapidly of late.
Nine years ago, when I came here, you could still easily find nice homes for under $200k (not condos or studios, but comfortably large homes), fast forward to just before the economy tanked, you would be hard pressed to find a comparably sized home for under $500k. Still more reasonable than LA and cheaper than downtown ATL where you can easily buy a condo for a few million, but then I really don't like living in the city, I love being just outside of one.
Boston, and my hometown of Cambridge, is very expensive and very diverse. I had heard that Cambridge is the most expensive city in the country to live in.
So, I don't think it is so much the GLBT part that is driving the market, but as someone else stated, the diversity of the people moving in and bringing in economy building businesses and social/cultural interest.
As for phobics, I think they are going to be everywhere. Though in more diverse and tolerant regions, they are going to be more out numbered than in smaller, more rural areas that have well established sense of community and far less open to change. Fear is a paralytic in many areas.
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 13, 2009, 08:15:34 AM
Here's another way to ask the original question...
Is there a higher percentage of phobes who live in middle or lower class areas?
When we talk about the people who live in upscale LGBT areas we typically hear educated, diverse, open minded, things like that. What you don't hear is phobic. So is it logical to conclude phobes are...
Well, you tell me. ;)
Julie
My parents are phobes, and they live in a somewhat upscale area. True, it's in Auburn, CA, but the area of Auburn they live is one of the more expensive neighborhoods.
I've encountered other wealthy bigots, too.
Upscale areas tend to be diverse, it seems to me, which means that you get both tolerant and intolerant folks living there. Of course, I'm referring to the upscale areas that I'm familiar with. From what I understand, there are many upscale areas that can be culturally homogeneous. And, it's possible for the cultural majority to be phobic.
First lets clarify the fact that way too many of the " T " people that I have met are in UPSCALE work enviorments . Ive had friends that work for N A S A , the Pentagon , the Department of Health here in Richmond Virgina and other well paying positions . Even years back when I lived in Dallas Texas , there are and stil are a good amount of T folks that have made it in certain expensive areas of both Fort Wort Worth and Dallas . Course too lok at how many are computer literate too. They were in on the ground floor years ago when Computers still required a lot of programming just to turn the things on . They then became Web masters and I T people --well paid too ! O K thats muh two an a half cent wurth ! Ellen Shaver
For a lot of gay, lesbian and trans persons academic superiority was a way out. A path they could achieve on without the stigma. Computers, in the beginning, required such specialized skills that you would take people that could do it, and that was the only qualification.