I'm reading the HBSOC under requirements for hormone therapy
It mentions as a part of the requirements:
Either a documented real life experience should be undertaken for at least three months prior to the administration of hormones.
I had opened up a Secondlife account about year ago and since then I've been playing the role as a bio male (have male skin/shape) and encountered a couple of relationships with women. Does this count as a real life experience?
Quote from: J.M. on August 13, 2009, 08:45:01 AM
I had opened up a Secondlife account...
Nope, you are confusing the internet with reality.
Try going to work presenting and identifying as a man.
That's real life.
The requirements are actually:
Quote from: http://wpath.org/Documents2/socv6.pdfa. A documented real-life experience of at least three months prior to the administration of hormones; or
b. A period of psychotherapy of a duration specified by the mental health professional after the initial evaluation (usually a minimum of three months).
First off, the SOC are guidelines, not rules. If you don't want to do RLE, negotiate it with your doctor/therapist or find somewhere you can transition WITHOUT the SOC. You know, the places where you act as an adult and assume responsibility for what you're doing rather than spend a ton of time paying a bunch of other people to do it for you.
And it's a REAL LIFE test, not a persona on the internet test.
Talk to your therapist who is going to give you the letter or whoever is going to give you the hormones and see what they have to say. Better than guessing and losing "transition time" guessing what they are going to require.
Cheers,
Myles
I had opened up a Secondlife account about year ago and since then I've been playing the role as a bio male (have male skin/shape) and encountered a couple of relationships with women. Does this count as a real life experience?
No comment, really.
Thank you guys for replying to my post. I know some of you guys think it's weird for me to use SL but the fact is that it's teaching me to act like a man and to be one too. I feel very comfortable doing it that way too... I guess it's like the beginning of a whole new change of life for me. When I learn to be a man on SL I will use the knowledge that I have and use it for the real world.
My biggest challenge of all is to acknowledge my deepest secret to my friends and family. I'm fearful of losing both of my friends and probably most of my family members but that is what I need to accept in order to live this kind of life, the one that I was suppose to be living.
I do not have a therapist at this time. I'm hoping to find one that deals with these kind of things that will accept my insurance. I'm on a fix income.
When I learn to be a man on SL I will use the knowledge that I have and use it for the real world.
Sorry, you're delusional. It will no more teach you real life skills than having cybersex will teach you how to fark the homecomming queen. The only way to learn about the real world is to get out and do it because it can't be controlled, you can't turn it off, and it really, really hurts.
There is a post recently where one FtM said something to the effect that as scary as it was to have guys trying to pick her up when she was a she, now that he is a he, its a lot scarier. When someone in Second Life can really reach out and smack you, or when they can convince the boss that they would be better than you are and get your job, then it might be real training.
Sorry, but there's no way that Second Life teaches you how to be a man.
Nobody wants to come out.
It hurts.
It puts you in the spotlight. People can and do say well-meaning but disrespectful things. Some people are downright mean.
Getting out there as yourself is scary, knowing people are going to stare, question your gender, and maybe even snicker behind your back (or to your face).
We can't transition in a bubble. It would be nice if we all could hide away at home and live life via our computer screens (have you seen Wall E?) And yeah, many of us do spend lots of time on line. But it's no substitute for living in the real world and interacting with family, friends, strangers, coworkers, feeling the rain on your skin, the heat of the pavement, and hearing the rustle of leaves.
Ultimately, those of us who transition do so not because we're brave, but because there becomes no alternative.
Jay
tekla,
I take your post extremely offensive and I find it rather rude too. This is the kind of crap that I'm trying to avoid. I didn't come here to be criticized and to be called crazy. I thought that I get full support for what I'm about to do, not be called down right crazy, as you just now labeled me as being "Delusional".
If you only think people came to SL to just have sex then you are very narrow minded. People come for all kinds of reasons, not just to have sex. that kind of thinking is rather silly if you ask me.
That one FTM had a bad experience... doesn't make SL a scary environment. So far I'm having a great experience. I'm meeting new and interesting people of all races and cultures. The Internet all together is a scary place and the only way to survive is to not allow the Internet to leak into your RL. If you're stupid enough to give out your address/Phone number to someone over the net that you don't even know... well you deserve what is about to come.
Mister, Thats only in your opinion bro. It may not have helped you to be a man but it certainly help others like myself who's afraid to show their real form In real life.. By the way theirs many FTM and MTF people on Secondlife so it's obviously helping them. Go checkout this website http://sltrc.pbworks.com/ (http://sltrc.pbworks.com/) you may actually find it useful and hopefully will change your opinion.
Lets tone it down a little bit, there is no need to overreact.
No one said the only reason for SL was cybersex.
But remember, SL is a game. I know several people who go there and seem to enjoy it, that is fine. But what you do hidden behind an internet IP address has little to do with real everyday life.
The only way to get Real Life Experience is to do it in real life.
Sarah L.
Ok, i'll play..
Secondlife could possibly teach you how to, erm, type like a man... whatever that means. Does it teach you what to do when some guy gets pissed off that you took his parking space? or when he thinks you're flirting with his girlfriend? How about handling all-male environments? Barber shop, men's room, etc?
Not so much. SL might make you think you're living your "life" as a "man," but as Tekla said-- you turn that off, walk outside and you are nothing but who you are.
Quote from: J.M. on August 13, 2009, 01:50:20 PM
The Internet all together is a scary place and the only way to survive is to not allow the Internet to leak into your RL.
This quote is exactly the point of everyone in this thread.
The real world is MUCH scarier than the internet, and RLE is to determine if you have what it takes to live in your desired gender. Even someone with a female identity could be a male character on second life/the sims/WoW if they wanted to, it means nothing in the real world.
Just because you pass 100% and get accepted as male on Second Life it doesn't mean you will be in the real world and you will not be prepared for what transition is like.
Using Second Life as an online social environment and a game is fine, but if you want to transition you will have to get over your fears and come out properly - unless you have the option to lock yourself away from everyone while you wait for T to work it's magic, get surgery in secret, and emerge back in to society as a full blown man.
Quote from: J.M. on August 13, 2009, 01:50:20 PM
tekla,
I take your post extremely offensive and I find it rather rude too.
That's why we pay her the big bucks darlin, to tell it like it is. We are on your side, really, but support does not necessarily mean just telling someone what they want to hear. I've been there and done that, not secondlife but a similar planet. It's a good way to deal with your internal workings, I agree, but you can burn up a
lot of time because it's so comfortable and safe. At some point please turn it off and come play with the rest of us out in the yard. It's scarier and dangerous but also indescribably rewarding.
I like Second Life... but it's nowhere near "real life".
My daughter is finally realizing that friendships on the net don't translate to real life. They talk and talk about meeting and about how fun it will be....until the plans get made. Then typical of internet relationships, as the date approaches, the friendship disintigrates and the meeting never happened. I've broached the subject that not all people on the net are who they seem, or say they are, but she's still overly optimistic.
Jay
P.S. *(note for the parenting police) These were not 'dates' and were going to be family meets, not a one-on-one meet in a dark alley
Quote from: sneakersjay on August 13, 2009, 03:21:40 PM
My daughter is finally realizing that friendships on the net don't translate to real life. They talk and talk about meeting and about how fun it will be....until the plans get made. Then typical of internet relationships, as the date approaches, the friendship disintigrates and the meeting never happened.
This drives me crazy :P I love meeting people online, but I actually want to...ya'know...MEET them. I've made so many plans that have been cancelled at the last second with lame excuses.
Mister,
I will play too..
Secondlife has taught me to have a relationship with a straight woman. To understand the needs that she desire. To understand what a bio man feels when he needs to work for his woman and to pay the bills. Yes In SL you need to apply for work to get income to pay for your tiers and rent that you rez your house on. You can also use your real life money. SL is a simulation for me. It's the first step to take that first walk to manhood.
whether or not you agree to this plan... it's helping me for building courage for Improving my self esteem.
If you don't mind me asking you Mister... Whats your experience with SL? how long have you been using SL?
Quote from: Mister on August 13, 2009, 02:01:57 PM
Ok, i'll play..
Secondlife could possibly teach you how to, erm, type like a man... whatever that means. Does it teach you what to do when some guy gets pissed off that you took his parking space? or when he thinks you're flirting with his girlfriend? How about handling all-male environments? Barber shop, men's room, etc?
Not so much. SL might make you think you're living your "life" as a "man," but as Tekla said-- you turn that off, walk outside and you are nothing but who you are.
Quote from: J.M. on August 13, 2009, 04:02:20 PM
Secondlife has taught me to have a relationship with a straight woman. To understand the needs that she desire. To understand what a bio man feels when he needs to work for his woman and to pay the bills. Yes In SL you need to apply for work to get income to pay for your tiers and rent that you rez your house on. You can also use your real life money. SL is a simulation for me. It's the first step to take that first walk to manhood.
whether or not you agree to this plan... it's helping me for building courage for Improving my self esteem.
Courage and Self Esteem is good.. but beyond that.. SL doesn't really teach you anything.
Yes it's a "life" simulation, but life and SL are still Vastly different, to the point that the lessons learned do not apply easily to reality.
Secondlife has taught me to have a relationship with a straight woman.
And that attractive straight women your having a relationship with while posing as a bio guy is what? A fat 45 year old guy who still lives in mom's basement? Odds are...
Sorry, you're not leaning any of that. Why not get a real job and support a real girl?
And that person I was talking about was not in second life, they were talking about just how scary it is to be perceived as a guy by other guys in real life, and the very real consequences of that.
My GF loves this facebook deal called Farmtown, and she's real good at it, which is not to say if I got her 40 acres and a mule she'd be the next Booker T. Washington.
In fact, with a nod to Booker T, who was an amazing man, my GF is Hispanic. And she has a lot of her cousins/nephews/nieces/aunts all on Facebook doing that farm thing, and I remark from time to time how funny it is that their parents and grandparents worked so hard to get out of the fields and keep them out of the fields, and here they all are asking each other to harvest their farms. You can't write comedy like that.
Well it is a lot cleaner and less sweaty then working a real farm, for sure on that.
// lived in Iowa for years
/// on a farm
One thing to remember is that online interactions are veeeery different from in person interaction. And how people see you will play a big role in how they're going to react to you. You're never going to experience that until you're face to face.
There's no guarantee that the "straight women" you've learned to have a relationship with in SL are straight women in real life, and even if they are, there's no guarantee that straight women want to be treated in reality the way they want to be treated in SL.
Relationships on the internet are NOTHING LIKE relationships in real life.
What's my familiarity with SL? I used to work for LL. I'd like to say I'm pretty damn familiar. I don't have the time nor interest to have a fake job (or one that pays $2/hr) and a fake relationship with someone across the globe. Instead I'd rather go to my real job and come home to my real flesh & blood lady.
Quote from: J.M. on August 13, 2009, 04:02:20 PM
Secondlife has taught me to have a relationship with a straight woman. To understand the needs that she desire. To understand what a bio man feels when he needs to work for his woman and to pay the bills. Yes In SL you need to apply for work to get income to pay for your tiers and rent that you rez your house on. You can also use your real life money. SL is a simulation for me. It's the first step to take that first walk to manhood.
whether or not you agree to this plan... it's helping me for building courage for Improving my self esteem.
I'm sorry to have to be this brutal, but having enough time online over the years, I'd like to offer a few comparisons.
In Second Life, you set your appearance, and you can be anything that the software can tolerate. In First Life, you wear common work clothes and short hair (because if you dress like a girl, working men can't trust you) and you learn to live with the rest.
In Second Life, people talk about you behind your back, and some people might not talk to you for it. In First Life, people talk about you behind your back, and some people might not hire you for it.
In Second Life, if the guy who runs your workplace finds you spooky or disruptive, you might get banned from the area. In First Life, you're fired, search for months for a new job with few skills in a very rough recession/depression economy, go slowly into debt and ruin your credit, and perhaps end up homeless.
In Second Life, you can walk away from her if she's crazy, or simply disconnect from the server. In First Life, she can stalk you, get you fired, and if she can get you alone for even a few minutes, she can file a false accusation against you that will follow you for decades.
In Second Life, if you walk into the wrong area and people think that you look like a freak, you might be harassed. In First Life, if you walk into the wrong area and people think that you look like a freak, you might be seriously injured.
There's nothing wrong with confidence-building exercises, but we're all fairly worried that you could learn lessons on Second Life that don't apply to First Life. Those lessons could get you hurt. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with a video game, and when you're ready for the real thing, I hope that you adapt well to it and succeed in your transition.
- N
In first life, walking around in the dark you can stub your toe. In second life, walking around in the dark you could be eaten by a grue.
What? No grues? Pffft.... lame.
We're being harsh because we care. We're trying to give you the benefit of our experiance, as we've been in that "starting out" phase ourselves. No, we're not telling you what you want to hear, we're telling you what you need to hear.
Put down the game and go outside. The game does not accurately simulate real life. You are taking in inaccurate data.
The "lessons" you're learning on second life are setting you up for some nasty knocks to the ego when you do eventually go outside.
To answer your question regarding the SOC and RLE -
For RLE you need to be either working, or in full time study (at a campus with other students, think school or college) for 3 months as your target sex.
Second Life doesn't count.
Sitting around your house doesn't count.
Being eaten by a grue while wearing a suit doesn't count.
Well, if you don't feel prepared for RLE, so just start psychotherapy.
Second life maybe can help you to bring out your male part, but Second Life is not life. It's just a bunch of bit, something in your head, but real life is outside.
I mean, watching sunsets, going to beach, cuddling with the loved one, maybe being treated bad from someone for being transgender but after taking your revenge, being yourself.
Second life could be good for you to get used to be a male, and to understand if you really feel a male but, well, if you play for a year at second life, you have only lost one year of your life.
I play and I played a lot with games like this, and the only thing I understand is that I lost a lot of time. Life is not forever, so passing your life doing such thing is, well, a waste.
I repeat, if you're afraid of RLE, start going to a therapist, but don't search for real life in a computer, because it isn't in there.
And, just for your information, I study computer science, so I know what I'm saying.
:)
Hi :)
I understand how maybe you felt that some of the comments to this thread might have been judging you or being harsh or critical of your reasoning, but I really do believe that everyone here is trying to be helpful. They all word it in different ways and if you're already feeling unsure about a topic, you might not see that they're trying to answer your question in a thorough and sincere way, instead of just saying "nope, doesn't count" (and leaving it at that) or "oh sure, I guess that'd be fine" (and not really meaning it).
Although it's sometimes hard to take that kind of advice, I guarantee you, you'll get much better results than with either the "brush off" or the "insincere platitude" methods. :D
And for my own perspective, I can tell you that even though I have not played Second Life, I am an avid gamer (in fact, I'm not sure if "avid" really quite hits the mark, as video games are one of the things I'm incredibly passionate about). That being said, one of my favorite things about video games (besides the technological and design standpoints - yeah, I'm a big geek) is that it's an activity that can bring several of my different groups of friends together in one big loud mass of laughing, smacktalking, competitive but good-natured people.
I don't think that anyone here (especially not myself) is telling you to avoid video games completely, we're just cautioning you not to play them to the *exclusion* of living real life. If you're playing them as *part* of your well-rounded and fulfilling life, then you'll get to enjoy both the games AND having meaningful interactions with other people in real social situations. Think of video games as the "dessert" of life. If you have a little dessert from time to time in addition to your four-squares, then you're doing alright. On the other hand, if you're subsisting on chocolate bars, cookies and cake, and only having real food on the odd occasion, you'll be incredibly unhealthy and only be doing damage to yourself.
Anyhow I hope that our words will reassure you that real life is worth living authentically, and that we're doing you more favors by telling it to you straight than by glossing over the pits and the bumps by just telling you what's easier to hear. :)