Hey all, well this is my first post here... I have loads of questions especially about hormones but I'm probably going to field most of those to the nurse I've got in contact with who specializes in trans people. Here's maybe a really vain question.. I've always had really "pretty" blue eyes with long dark lashes, so I look like I'm always wearing mascara... I haven't started hormones yet but are these lashes going to be a liability do you think when it comes to passing, even once I'm well into T therapy? Did you notice a change in your lashes? Maybe I'm just biased since I know I'm biologically female so I notice the lashes more. I guess I'm doing alright for pre-T as far as face shape goes. Do you think I should get my lashes trimmed? In a way I'd kind of feel guilty about doing that, I know my mom would kill me, haha.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv617%2Fhilby%2FPhoto478.jpg&hash=ba6d256488e6cc79ac68ff62c93167fa15d6781b)
Also, the hair looks pretty dumb, but I still haven't cut mine (I'm going to cut way short when I finish my current temp job.. finally a hair cut I can be comfortable with) so I had to tie it back... and yeah, try to ignore the horrible eyebrow plucking job. Can't wait to throw out the 14X magnifying mirror.
I've got more important things I hope to discuss and much more annoying physical problems like the pair of Ds on my chest and a chubby hourglass figure, but I guess at least I can disguise those.
Men actually have longer lashes than women. I don't think it'll be a problem at all, unless you're worried about being a pretty boy :)
A good, long binder will take care of the chest and the hourglass.
I don't think you'll have to worry a whole lot....I've seen some guys with downright beautiful eyes before, and you really don't look all that bad pre-T either. ;)
Nothing to worry about whatsoever. And sorry if I'm being too forward, but in my opinion, you'll make a REALLY hot guy.
SD
Roo,
Welcome to Susan's. You will find a diverse group of people here and answers to many questions as well as many questions to answers. You do have pretty eyes but how well you pass often depends more on your body language than your eyelashes. finding reason in correct in saying that a long binder can handle the body shape area. Effects of hormones seems to vary greatly from one person to the next. Only time will tell how well it works for you or how quickly.
Hey Roo, welcome!
I don't think you'll have a problem with your eyes at all. My ex-husband has eyes that are almost identical to yours, but with blonde lashes.
I agree with CodyJess that a good quality, long binder will be your best friend when it comes to masculinizing your chest.
As for the more important things to discuss, just remember that it's all important. We're all either going through it too, have been there already, or are thinking of going where you're going, so there are always ways we can relate. :)
And, I gotta say it... Bastien, you flirt you. lol! ;D
You have a very masculine face that I consider to be handsome on a man. Big blue eyes and long lashes aren't necessarily something that will get you clocked or whatever... if anything it makes you more attractive. I think the only thing that would counter the "prettiness" of the eye area I guess would be to grow out your eyebrows some more. Just my opinion, good luck! :)
Welcome, Roo!
I think you will do great. Sure the eyelashes need to grow out. But if you have been plucking them, don't expect it to happen overnight. Personally, I think big blue eyes on a guy are totally sexy. It will be fun to see how you develop.
Wishing you the best,
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
This is why I wear big chunky emo glasses ;D
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi496.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr327%2Fxdawni%2Feyes.jpg&hash=d5f8c0796bae89ba338f0805116805a637897618)
tried to do the same pose in both xD they make my eyes look a lot smaller and not so femmy and puppydog ish. (my choice of pink strap top PJ's is ruining my masculinity)
I am also a victim of a pair of DD's and an hourglass figure. I only wear a short binder because I feel like a long one would just ride up over my hips and pool annoyingly around my waist as things tend to do with small waist and bigger hips. I have to wear baggy layered clothes if I want to pass, makes me look a lot fatter than I actually am but I'd rather look like a chubby guy than a slender woman :P
Wow roo... You already are a good lookin dude. :P Great pic.
i have "the prettiest eyes ive ever seen!" (blue eyes and long lashes) according to quite a few people. black emo glasses with a slight tint stopped that. lol
my eyes never gave me away, but once people "knew i was a girl" theyd comment on my feminine qualities like it was going to "make up" for "mistaking me for a guy" i walked in to take an online test one day and the lady asked if i was daniel (i was flattered) but i told her no, and had to tell her my birth name so that she could get everything set up for me and she started apologizing and telling my how pretty my eyes were and that my hair was cute. (i had a hot pink mohawk wtf?)
buuuut anyway, bio-guys tend to have longer and thicker eyelashes than bio-girls. i think dark hair and blue eyes are preeeeetty. :D in a totally masculine way of course. >.>
You've got a long face, that's pretty masculine and you'll probably pass well on T. As to the eyes and eyelashes, as far as I know eyelashes aren't hormonally influenced and they're the same between the sexes. So I really don't think so. Grow out your eyebrows though. You're a lucky guy.
SilverFang
I know guys all the time who have longer lashes then most women. Lashes are to keep sand and other things from getting into your eye, there's really not a difference between sexes!
You can't tell behind my heavy prescription glasses that I have big puppydog eyes and long dark eyelashes.. but you know..
My cisgendered partner has 'em too.. his are, if anything, even "sweeter" and prettier than mine.
So, it's not a big deal really.
If it bothers you lots, then you can make a habit of gently pulling on your lashes every night, because lashes are "sensitive" and you'll find 'em falling out soon enough and you'll be left with a lot fewer lashes.. which, Can look far more weird, but.. *shrugs*
don't worry about your eyelashes :D
As others said, guys usually have long eyelashes.
The color and curve of the eye itself might change a little without estrogen and with t.
As others said, you have quite a face, bconsidering the jaw line, nose and a bit broad chin.
T will make your face seem even more angular, skin changes and let the eyebrows grow :D
Some of the longest (natural) eyelashes I've seen have been on guys. I only notice it because I have the mentality of women-should-have-longer eyelashes, which is stupid I know. :-\ But, in reality, it depends on the person... not the sex. It seems to be hereditary too.
I'm not sure if my eyelashes are short or if it's because they're blonde. I prefer mine being they way they are (short or looks short).
Quote from: Sebastien on August 14, 2009, 10:43:04 PM
Nothing to worry about whatsoever. And sorry if I'm being too forward, but in my opinion, you'll make a REALLY hot guy.
SD
Dang, Sebastian, you've beaten me to it!
Makes me wonder if my eyes are feminine :X
long eye lashes are just a plus when you're a dude in my opinion. Girls love them and boys love them....lol
I havent even started T yet and mine don't stop me from passing, so once you're on T you will be good for sure! No worries
my face doesn't fit any category completely..
Kinda small mouth, full lips, nose is small just the tip masculine and it expands as I smile..
Then again, forehead is high, nose tip @@.. chin and only the back of the jaw is somewhat .. I dunno :D
Myself, you have a feminine face. When I first saw you, I figured you were an SO. Don't worry about it.
What's a SO?
significant other
Quote from: Mr. Fox on August 17, 2009, 11:29:33 AM
Myself, you have a feminine face. When I first saw you, I figured you were an SO. Don't worry about it.
This, thats what I thought at first.
Quote from: Mr. Fox on August 17, 2009, 11:29:33 AM
Myself, you have a feminine face. When I first saw you, I figured you were an SO. Don't worry about it.
Yes. You have no worries about passing at all ma'am. At all.
None of you seriously think it's a problem? IMO, super girly eyes are the #1 facial tell of transitioned FTMs. I'd spot you no problem.
I'm with Mister here - I know the proper form is to say "Sure you pass" when in fact, they could pass in the left lane in a Ferrari, but more often then not people are lying, and not being realistic.
Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 03:22:11 PM
None of you seriously think it's a problem? IMO, super girly eyes are the #1 facial tell of transitioned FTMs. I'd spot you no problem.
Then you'd probably "spot" my bio-male/cis-gender ex-husband as FTM too, because I'm telling you, his eyes are identical to Roo's but with long, blonde lashes that curl upwards. And he's a macho, redneck, "manly" man, meeting (and exceeding) almost every male stereotype that's out there.
Just sayin' is all... :)
Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 03:22:11 PM
None of you seriously think it's a problem? IMO, super girly eyes are the #1 facial tell of transitioned FTMs. I'd spot you no problem.
His eyes aren't super girly, they're just big, blue, and long lashed. There's tons of guys who have those same features. You'd only spot him because you know what to look for.
There is more to it than that, its hard to change the eyes, and the skin is way too smooth also.
Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 03:46:04 PM
There is more to it than that, its hard to change the eyes, and the skin is way too smooth also.
Yup. Who got 100% on the boy/girl quiz? Yeah, me...
Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 03:46:04 PM
There is more to it than that, its hard to change the eyes, and the skin is way too smooth also.
Okay, I don't know much about T (or anything really... lol) but doesn't the skin change on it?
Post Merge: August 17, 2009, 04:02:12 PM
Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 04:00:19 PM
Yup. Who got 100% on the boy/girl quiz? Yeah, me...
Ok, now I'm just gonna be a big ol' poopyhead, but... was that an *online* quiz by any chance??
{ducks and runs...}
Quote from: NES_junkie_James on August 17, 2009, 04:00:51 PM
Okay, I don't know much about T (or anything really... lol) but doesn't the skin change on it?
Post Merge: August 17, 2009, 04:02:12 PM
Ok, now I'm just gonna be a big ol' poopyhead, but... was that an *online* quiz by any chance??
{ducks and runs...}
Uh, i've been living in areas with significant trans populations since about '96 or so and currently in SF. you want to come try and beat me?
Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 04:06:18 PM
Uh, i've been living in areas with significant trans populations since about '96 or so and currently in SF. you want to come try and beat me?
Don't get me wrong Mister, I sure as heck don't think I could beat you. That wasn't my intent. :)
I'm not trying to say that I know more about this than you or anyone else, but I'm just saying some things aren't always so cut and dried. I just don't see how you and Tekla can say that he'll never pass because of his eyes when I've seen bio-males with those same eyes and in fact some who have "girlier" facial structures than Roo even.
I respect the years you've got in, the first-hand experience you have, and the right you have to your opinion. I was only challenging the certainty you expressed, as I think every situation has its own possibilities and that saying for sure he won't pass EVER (theoretically after as many years on T and living stealth as you currently have) is a bit much.
But again, I'm saying this with respect for yours and Tekla's opinions, and just trying to open up the discussion. :)
Quote from: NES_junkie_James on August 17, 2009, 04:00:51 PM
Okay, I don't know much about T (or anything really... lol) but doesn't the skin change on it?
Yep I think the skin is supposed to get rougher and oilier but I've come to terms with the fact that I'm probably going to be using the girls washrooms and maybe even getting a lot of second takes from the girls in there, until I start on the T.
Fact is there are quite a few gender clues we all use, most of them subconscious, and very hard to work through - it takes time, practice and the rest. The other ones, we add up. Which is why T helps guys to the point where it gives them facial hair, which is often enough to give one points in that direction. But given facial clues - and as humans we clue to the eyes from birth - for a lot of things, that added to skin, to size, to muscle mass and tone are often huge tells. After that, how you hold things, and yourself, and often very minor deals, are dead giveaways.
I am so sick of hearing that line.. "Well some bioguys......" The only one used more commonly is "It doesn't take a dick to be a man." The only two groups of people who use them are transpeople and the allies who are propping up people's self esteem.
It doesn't take a dick to be a man
I don't know about that, but it sure helps to be one.
Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 04:37:14 PM
Fact is there are quite a few gender clues we all use, most of them subconscious, and very hard to work through - it takes time, practice and the rest. The other ones, we add up. Which is why T helps guys to the point where it gives them facial hair, which is often enough to give one points in that direction. But given facial clues - and as humans we clue to the eyes from birth - for a lot of things, that added to skin, to size, to muscle mass and tone are often huge tells. After that, how you hold things, and yourself, and often very minor deals, are dead giveaways.
That does make sense, and I see what you're saying, but does that mean then that guys with feminine eyes are doomed to never pass? I'm honestly asking for both your opinions here (and everyone else's as well).
I think that maybe (and I'm willing to change my viewpoint, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything) guys with feminine facial features - whether transguys or unlucky bio-dudes - might be looked at as "wait, is that a guy or a girl, they have really girly eyes" but then the viewer will stop and think "ok, but he's got a beard, no tits, a deep voice, etc. so he's obviously a guy".
In that case whether they're right (bioguy) or "wrong" (transguy) it still boils down to their final decision being "that's a man, baby"... And isn't their *final decision* more important than if they hesitate or not?
no, they eventually pass to the un-transaware. most are forever detectable by those in the know, though.
Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 04:49:07 PM
no, they eventually pass to the un-transaware. most are forever detectable by those in the know, though.
It may not be everyone's answer, but: I'm cool with that. (for me. ymmv) :)
To be honest I can't remember ever seeing a guy with eyes as big as mine. Hopefully my brow will get a bit bigger which will change the shape of them. These were the widest looking eyes I could find on a guy:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv617%2Fhilby%2FBrunoGagliass1.jpg&hash=c4b8cefcbba92636266a521d20e023e80624fcd8) And even those throw me off at first.
Post Merge: August 17, 2009, 04:59:04 PM
Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 04:49:07 PM
no, they eventually pass to the un-transaware. most are forever detectable by those in the know, though.
When I first saw pictures of FTMs who had gone through the transition, I started seeing "potential" FTMs all over the place in the streets, and I know in this little city that's impossible. They really are eventually almost undetectable.
No, roo, they're not. And brow ridges don't grow.
T can change a lot, but something it can not. Bone structure, density, and basic distances, don't change.
I thought the bones in your face thickened? It's one of the irreversible effects isn't it?
Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 04:39:22 PM
I am so sick of hearing that line.. "Well some bioguys......" The only one used more commonly is "It doesn't take a dick to be a man." The only two groups of people who use them are transpeople and the allies who are propping up people's self esteem.
What's wrong with that?
Building up people self esteem on a false premeise is not doing them any good. No more then telling them, "Gee, you're not on fire" is helping them when they have flames shooting out from them. In the real world - that's the place that is not here, or in front of your mirror - life can get pretty rough real fast.
Do you really want people to lie to you?
Quote from: Maiden on August 17, 2009, 05:16:17 PM
What's wrong with that?
Well let's see... it's attempting to rationalize something unpassable about a male/female TS person (height, build, in this case, eyes) with what is usually an extreme minority of people born male/female. The whole thing is just ridiculous ego inflation.
So FtMs aren't men because they don't have dicks? Or it's a lie that some bioguys have feminine features? I'm not seeing where there's a problem.
Quote from: Maiden on August 17, 2009, 05:23:29 PM
So FtMs aren't men because they don't have dicks? Or it's a lie that some bioguys have feminine features? I'm not seeing where there's a problem.
Did i say either? Nope. Please reread.
Quote from: Mister on August 17, 2009, 05:25:16 PM
Did i say either? Nope. Please reread.
I was responding to tekla. :)
Quote from: roo on August 17, 2009, 04:57:12 PM
To be honest I can't remember ever seeing a guy with eyes as big as mine. Hopefully my brow will get a bit bigger which will change the shape of them. These were the widest looking eyes I could find on a guy:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv617%2Fhilby%2FBrunoGagliass1.jpg&hash=c4b8cefcbba92636266a521d20e023e80624fcd8) And even those throw me off at first.
How about these.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi674.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv110%2FJamie-O7%2FQueenpic9005.jpg&hash=f8d71c34a48f790394f5bdef94a7ead908555fcc)
And the problem with saying that you can always spot them is, you'll never know about the ones that you don't spot.
I said there were many clues that we use, physical features are just one of them. And funny, most of the MtFs here think that SRS is the real turning point, and often the law agrees. And I didn't say men had to have a dick, I said it helps if they can be a dick.
Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 05:34:50 PM
I said there were many clues that we use, physical features are just one of them. And funny, most of the MtFs here think that SRS is the real turning point, and often the law agrees. And I didn't say men had to have a dick, I said it helps if they can be a dick.
And this is because you're an enlightened guy. Go stand on a street corner and ask men this question, "What about a man makes him a man?" If your most common answer isn't a penis, i'll be shocked.
Don't worry about your eyelashes, most men would never look that close. For what it is worth, my eyelashes were always long and curled (and I was cursed by being born genetically male). I remember the eye doctor mentioning that when he was checking my eyes.
Typically 90+ percent of people never look that close at people they see on the street.
Sarah L.
About eye lashes, All the women I 've know always tell me they would kill to have my blue eyes and lashes. ( CD ). You'll be great. Happiness is all you can ask for. Carriage will take you a long way. Huggs.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.horror-movies.ca%2Falbums%2FUnderworld3%2FPK-18.jpg&hash=40e9bc31a186de09692ac20738693db44b93e92a)
This picture doesn't show it well, but when watching the movie (Underworld Rise of the Lycans) I kept thinking he has huge eyes..
But his forehead and other features are huge too so you don't see it as much as on a girl
Here, have a couple more pix. I'm all for sharing photos of pretty guys with big, beautiful eyes. *sigh* >:-)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi674.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv110%2FJamie-O7%2Fnoble-andre.jpg&hash=73ac21e81ecfe2e9caa9da4187cbaaaa92ddd1cf) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi674.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv110%2FJamie-O7%2Fpaul-mccartney.jpg&hash=f1385188a1eb4cd1053fa64bc769ed5d5332d4d1)
I would say stop plucking the eyebrows.. Eyelashes aren't really that important to be honest. Alot of guys I know have long eye lashes compared to most women.. and people aren't really going to go "Look at that guys eyelashes damn its a woman!!" are they?
Jay