Whether you call it shame, embarrassment, guilt, etc, the question is that is the emotion or emotions that prevent you from being open and honest about your gender identity keeping you locked up in a box or debilitating you in any way?
For now let's set aside the social implications of coming out.
Let's say you were about as self conscious about being TG as you are about the color of your eyes. You presented in the way that best defines who you are without any worries or concerns. Whatever anyone said that was negative rolled right off you just as it would if they criticized your eye color or hair color. You didn't feel any shame or guilt or embarrassment. None at all.
Now imagine that every one of the TGs in the world had this attitude, regardless of age, religion, race, nationality, etc.
This may seem like a fairy tale but if you think about it, that's true because of what's between our ears. All those negative emotions we have about ourselves are debilitating and prevent us from enjoying life to the fullest.
Why do we let that happen? Do we not believe we deserve to enjoy life like the rest of the mainstream does? Do we think we have done wrong? Or is this just social conditioning we have bought into?
And we will we ever band together as a cohesive unit and put an end to this inferior quality of life? Or will we simply accept this as a tolerable form of slavery and do nothing to stand up for ourselves?
If we really fought to end the stigma we wouldn't have to worry about the social implications of being ourselves.
Julie
I have thought for a long time that we should divorce our selfs from the GLB movement and go forward on our own.
Many would not wish to out themselves, but what if we could get it so that people saw us as just another person it might be well worth it.
JMHO,
Janet
Not everybody is going to have the luxury of stealth, or the privilege of passing - and no movement ever got anywhere by looking for fewer members.
Julie,
You have raised an interesting point and one that I have thought about for some time. My take on the situation is that it is two factors that override our ability to form a united front for equal rights. First, we are a very small minority. What good would it do for a handful of us to be out?
Second, we are not a uniform population and even in our support groups, we tend not to bond. In my local support group of 20 or more transwomen, we sometimes dis each other in meetings. I've been stung twice so badly that I rarely go now. We are by nature, loners. We know that society including many in the LG community do not think we are sane. Society torments us because they say we are insane or perverted and when we react it is proof to them that we are what they say we are...
THE SHORT ANSWER--------------------------- YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I scream this every day to so many people ! You have no idea how many times I repeat the time I wrote in a scrap book in the now defunct Ladies First Support Group oif Fredricksburg Virginia ------- " STOP THE SHAME , STOP THE ANGER , THERE IS NOTHING WRONG ABOUT DRESSING IN ANNOTHERS CLOTHING !!!!!!!!!! Ellen Shaver >:-) :angel: 8) :D :) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :-* :-* :-* 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: Janet Lynn on August 17, 2009, 10:52:22 AM
I have thought for a long time that we should divorce our selfs from the GLB movement and go forward on our own.
Many would not wish to out themselves, but what if we could get it so that people saw us as just another person it might be well worth it.
JMHO,
Janet
I totally agree.
As for myself, I'm not ashamed of my identity anymore (albeit there's always some lingering conditioning) but I'm ashamed of more basic things that have to do with my presentation - primarily being so fat.
I would prefer that when I present as female I present a credibly female image and that's still in the future.
But I can definitely believe I'm the exception to the rule when it comes to being so open while still being so far away from a full time transition.
Shame is always a self-inflicted injury.
And given the number of stealth TS persons, and those who do not see themselves as part of the spectrum, thus further reducing our already minuscule numbers, cutting ourselves off from what little support we have thus far received would be political suicide, which I think is the bottom line agenda of those that advocate such a course.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on August 17, 2009, 10:52:22 AM
I have thought for a long time that we should divorce our selfs from the GLB movement and go forward on our own.
There is no separating LGB from T because the T is the common thread. There are effeminate males and masculine females and both cross the gender lines, the definition of transgender. Many gays and lesbians miss this or simply won't admit it because of the stigma attached to trans. They need to understand a lot of the discrimination they face comes from crossing gender lines in their presentation. I've had many a discussion with gays & lesbians about this and after explaining it to them they get the point. It's a good place to start if we want to educate the masses.Quote from: tekla on August 17, 2009, 02:33:26 PM
Shame is always a self-inflicted injury.
And given the number of stealth TS persons, and those who do not see themselves as part of the spectrum, thus further reducing our already minuscule numbers, cutting ourselves off from what little support we have thus far received would be political suicide, which I think is the bottom line agenda of those that advocate such a course.
Couldn't agree more Kat.
Julie
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 17, 2009, 09:51:39 AM
Whether you call it shame, embarrassment, guilt, etc, the question is that is the emotion or emotions that prevent you from being open and honest about your gender identity keeping you locked up in a box or debilitating you in any way?
Yes.
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 17, 2009, 09:51:39 AMWhy do we let that happen? Do we not believe we deserve to enjoy life like the rest of the mainstream does? Do we think we have done wrong? Or is this just social conditioning we have bought into?
I think we deserve to enjoy life. I don't think we have done wrong.
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 17, 2009, 09:51:39 AMAnd we will we ever band together as a cohesive unit and put an end to this inferior quality of life?
No, I doubt it. Most want it behind them, they don't want to band together, they want it over so they can live the life they should have had in the first place.
I think that one of the hardest things for me, guiltwize, is that I've been raised as a girl, and so, I have a hard time shaking that I'm failing to be the woman I was supposed to be..
but ofcourse, if I went and tried to do that, I'd fail to be the man I'm supposed to be..
So, damned if I do, damned if I don't.. 'eh?
I believe that internalized shame is a big issue for our community. No matter how self assured one might be, years of negative stigma attached to our identities has its effect.
I don't believe we should separate T from GLB, but my opinion is based on having identified as both gay and bi before coming to an understanding of being trans. I'm in a long term relationship w another woman, so I'm also L, or something else entirely...
Z
It is not about shame embarrassment or guilt. Plain old fear and not wanting to be trans, but be me, accepted and normal, a part of the crowd.
I have found most of the barriers I've encountered are within me. Some I suppose others have erected, but when I finally deal with them I find that it was I who erected them because I supposed others would. :P
Raised as I was, I have been indoctrinated to do the best I can with what I've got. Sometimes I start thinking that transitioning is a way of giving in and not keeping up the good fight. ::) Then I realize what I'm doing and try to move on. Again, the barriers for me have been within. That could well be termed shame, embarrassment, guilt, etc.
Divorcing ourselves from the LGB branch would be political suicide. For one thing, there are a lot more LGBs than Ts - strength in numbers. And many (most?) trans people want to drop out of the trans world at their first opportunity to pass in their target gender. (How many threads are there on this forum about achieving stealth? How many posts are there saying the person just wants to live their life as they are?) The number of active trans people is way too small to achieve meaningful political/social change.
- Kate
Quote from: Julie Marie on August 17, 2009, 02:56:01 PM
There is no separating LGB from T because the T is the common thread. There are effeminate males and masculine females and both cross the gender lines, the definition of transgender. Many gays and lesbians miss this or simply won't admit it because of the stigma attached to trans......
Couldn't agree more Kat.
Julie
And that's why there are many TS who do not want to be associated with the Transgender Community being the supposed umbrella term that it is. We don't belong
-={LR}=-
This is a interesting conversation. Shame and guilt is debilitating us. Some has been done by society and some by ourselves. It was done to the slaves, women, Native Americans, and other groups. lt's been done to transgender as well as GLB people.
I agree with Julie that GLB folks need to be educated about transgender issues. I had the chance to do that in June with my bible study group. I also believe that gay and lesbian people need to see that what happens to us affects them also.
I have mentioned that I've never felt any shame or guilt about being transgender. I can't afford to. Another thing I see are cliques that develop among trans people. Shunning others because they present differently is also self defeating and petty.
Gennee