Ok I need help, my dad thinks that "Most people who go through this process are still desperately unhappy and have made their life a thousand times more difficult with the change" and that i'm making "a disastrous life changing decision". :(
Is there anything I can say or any links that I can send him that might help ???
Any advice would be appreciated.
Nathan
some stuff i had as reference when i was wikistaff (but didn't get around to integrating the info)
Transsexualism in Serbia: A Twenty-Year Follow-Up Study
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120126320/abstract (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120126320/abstract)
Long-term Assessment of the Physical, Mental, and Sexual Health among Transsexual Women
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121527910/abstract (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121527910/abstract)
A Report from a Single Institute's 14-Year Experience in Treatment of Male-to-Female Transsexuals
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122509262/abstract (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122509262/abstract)
obvious bias towards MtF peeps but a good start
Regret is a common human emotion. Some regret more than others, some never do.
Well, there are people who are unhappy after transition but that's usually when there are other issues that they have put off dealing with in order to work on transition or think that transition will fix those other problems. And so even after transition they still have those other issues to deal with.
So my advice is to sort out as much as you can before working on transition.
As for convincing your dad, I don't really have anything to link to so erm... yeah. <_<
Ask your Dad where he got his thoughts about that subject. Did he see a show on tv or something, read a book? I'm sure people will post references in here for you, but I'd be curious to see where he got that idea to know how to combat it. I know a lot of transpeople both pre and post-op, many who won't have ops and many who are years past op (srs mainly). I know of like two of three people who have detransitioned. They had a lot of other issues other than gender and those issues were their real problem, not gender. He could come here or into chat and talk to some of us and ask us questions about our lives, get to know some of us and how we feel, maybe it would help him understand us better :) Meghan
Quote from: Ghost306 on August 31, 2009, 08:45:11 PM
Ok I need help, my dad thinks that "Most people who go through this process are still desperately unhappy and have made their life a thousand times more difficult with the change" and that i'm making "a disastrous life changing decision". :(
Is there anything I can say or any links that I can send him that might help ???
Any advice would be appreciated.
Nathan
You first need to correct him:
"
Most People who go through this process
are still risk being desperately unhappy and
have should expect
made their life a thousand times more difficult with the change" and that i'm making "a
disastrous serious life changing decision"
-={LR}=-
My dad said the same thing to me today. I think parents just dont want us to make a big mistake
Quote from: Kyle :P on August 31, 2009, 10:09:05 PM
My dad said the same thing to me today. I think parents just dont want us to make a big mistake
Hey lets face it most parents love and care for their kids and this was probably not what they had planned for. A little surprised - to say the least.
-={LR}=-
Well for me personally, it was no biggy. Oh sure, transition was not always fun. But I still have my family and friends and a very good job. It's not easy and the problems you had before transition, you'll still have after. But for me it was worth it, for now the outside matches the inside.
Gee how is it better. Hum....I like who I am for the first time in my life. I have friends, Normal not trans friends who think I'm interesting. I don't ever have to worry about someone asking if I'm gay or that I run like a girl. I'm just me.
Beni
My therapist told me this too recently and I was like "that's not what I heard". Be good to look at those references, thanks.
Quote from: Ladyrider on August 31, 2009, 10:08:44 PM
You first need to correct him:
"Most People who go through this process are still risk being desperately unhappy and have should expect made their life a thousand times more difficult with the change" and that i'm making "a disastrous serious life changing decision"
How very true. My wife keeps saying I'm making my beliefs more convenient for this and I keep telling her how inconvenient this will really be.
I dont think it is possible for a person to use the word "most" if they do not have any facts to support their opinions. Does your father have a good understanding of GID. transgenders, or experiences with ppl that he has met that are? Of course you are his child, so normally he would want you to conform to what society dictates. My feeling would be more of if you are questioning your own trans-gender thoughts, because of this, and/or do you know for sure that you are TG.
I've found that if you try to track down the sources that say most transitioned transsexuals have regrets and wished they'd never done it and/or are suicidal comes from religious groups and groups like NARTH.
Jay
I've known people IRL who have gone through and been tremendously happy, others who killed themselves. Not bible stuff, or religious junk, but real life. Sometimes even huge changes don't change enough stuff.
HRT/SRS only changes one thing, not all things. You might be more comfortable in your own skin and not be such a social reject, but lacking social skills, your not going to be any better at it. "Hating that part" of you can be changed, 'hating yourself' will not change.
That, and things look different from the other side, and in the long run. What seems to be good in the beginning often turns into disaster, and a lot of things that suck to start with can turn out to be good down the road.
Generalizations are dangerous weapons. They can't easily be dismissed because there is some element of truth within the core generalization. You could just as easily argue that most people who marry have regrets and wished they'd never done that either. That is probably more true than the transsexual generalization--though marriage is more easily undone.
I have had regrets at times that were mostly connected to losses that were a consequence of transition like friendships. I am still overwhelming convinced transition was life-or-death for me and have never entertained any serious thoughts of detransitioning. This seems the consensus of my group of friends.
Quote from: tekla on September 01, 2009, 01:05:29 AM
I've known people IRL who have gone through and been tremendously happy, others who killed themselves. Not bible stuff, or religious junk, but real life. Sometimes even huge changes don't change enough stuff.
HRT/SRS only changes one thing, not all things. You might be more comfortable in your own skin and not be such a social reject, but lacking social skills, your not going to be any better at it. "Hating that part" of you can be changed, 'hating yourself' will not change.
That, and things look different from the other side, and in the long run. What seems to be good in the beginning often turns into disaster, and a lot of things that suck to start with can turn out to be good down the road.
I don't doubt that there are those that transition who are still unhappy and suicidal. Transtion does only fix one problem in our lives, not all of them. I still can't get along with my mother, my ex is still an arse, my tendency to procrastinate gets me into trouble, and I'm still fat and out of shape and dateless.
But to say that MOST transsexuals are unhappy after transition is a stretch. Not all of us have effed up lives. We transition and go back to our regularly scheduled boring lives with no drama, angst, alcohol, etc.
Jay
Like some people alrady wrote.. the transition dont fix any normal problem in life.
Sometimes you got some more problems, sometimes less..
My opinion, it's not enough to be happy with yourself because you are not alone.
If you are surounded by people they take as what you wanna be taken, its ok.
If your passing is that good that noone regonize your past, its ok.
But when you got treated bad at job, society etc. you'll have a big problem.
So its not only important to get happy with yourself because of the transition.
Be honest to yourself while the transition.. and you will not end up unhappy.
I kind of look at it like Swine Flu and Regular Flu.
Swine Flu has killed a few hundred people this year.
Influenza regularly kills hundreds of thousands of people per year just farting around the globe.
You're probably much more likely to die of the flu than to kill yourself after SRS. Well, that, and the point is that we're a high risk group for depression and suicide anyway. Who could have guessed that a demographic with our background would have difficulties beyond normal life issues?
I think a lot of people become entirely enveloped in transition, putting all their eggs in one basket, and after things are said and done, they realize... there's more to life. And maybe they didn't plan for that. It's a beginning, not the end.
If you're not chemically depressed, imbalanced, or suicidal pre-transition when you feel your worst, barring major life circumstances that can drive normal people to suicidal situations, you probably won't be suicidal afterward. If you are a high risk patient with a history relating to suicide, and you have SRS, betting the farm that it'll be a magical cure all, then as Eddie says, you might as well jump.
Talk to him about how important he and your family are to you and about how significant it would be to you to have his love and support through this, and how that alone will go so far towards eliminating regrets.
For me, risking depression and suicide after transition was a moot point because I was depressed and suicidal before doing it.
I think the whole idea of "don't do it, it'll make you unhappier" ignores the fact that transsexual people have a medical - a physical - condition and not just some psychological disorder. Many people are unhappy with the effects of treatment for other life threatening conditions but that doesn't stop them from accepting the treatment. When you place the continuing societal disapproval and discrimination that many non- or marginally passing trans people receive on top of that you can get some serious depressive effects.
Post transition regret is one reason why the Standards of Care and the Real Life Experience exist, to see if the social change will hurt, rather than help, the issues an individual is experiencing. You can tell your dad that going through transition, supervised by a medical team, is a relatively slow process that has many steps before anything is permanently changed and that stopping the transition is possible right up to the point of genital surgery.
hugs & smiles
Emelye
I'm not sure of what the statistics are but I do remember reading how suicide statistics were not only higher, but insanely higher, amongst people who have had their transsexualism "cured" through therapy than amongst people who'd had their sex corrected to fit their mind.
Transitioning is made tough by how those in your life respond to it. If you're in a totally accepting environment, you'll probably breeze through it. If the opposite is true, it will certainly be tough.
The barometer I used was how I felt inside. Once that war that had raged for over half a century ended I couldn't believe the relief I felt. I had never known inner peace before and I would never go back to live in that turmoil again.
Julie
Prior to transition/SRS in 1974, "a ripe old age" for a transsexual was 25 - most did not make it beyond that and 30 was almost unheard of. The year before I transitioned (1974, age 24), I had tried 3 times to kill myself (serious attempts) and there is little doubt I would have succeeded if help had not come along.
That was 35 years ago. Life has not been a bowl of cherries but it has been way better than anything that came before. At least, as myself, I can face life and its hardships.
Prior to transition/SRS in 1974, "a ripe old age" for a transsexual was 25 - most did not make it beyond that and 30 was almost unheard of
You have not a scintilla of proof or a shred of evidence for that point. Considering that the word itself had only been around for 8 years at that point it would be highly doubtful that any long term study with a meaningful statistical group had been done. You are projecting your life deep into history and I'm not sure that works out that way. I'm sure before that, some took desperate measures, others found a way, life does find a way after all.
Its a lot easier to live without options if you don't know about any. In the same way that before TV lots of people grew up poor and never knew it, because everyone around them was too.
I had my transition 1994 (for 15 years).Even it was sometimes very hard and difficould for me, there was NO time in my life to regret this step.
Why? Before I start to ask a doctor for medical help, know who I was. I know, that i would NEVER look like Kim Basinger, that my height wouldn't gone. I was authentic. i didn't play a role by my therapists or my doctors, I was just who i am.
Oh, their was people who try to hit me or puke on me. I lost my family,my children and my job, but I now it was right for me.
And, before a TS-Person didn't has this feeling, he or she should not have a sex change surgery.
Thanks for the replies. :)
I emailed him asking why he thinks this. Not sure he's going to reply though.
Nathan.
Quote from: tekla on September 01, 2009, 12:35:40 PM
Prior to transition/SRS in 1974, "a ripe old age" for a transsexual was 25 - most did not make it beyond that and 30 was almost unheard of
You have not a scintilla of proof or a shred of evidence for that point. Considering that the word itself had only been around for 8 years at that point it would be highly doubtful that any long term study with a meaningful statistical group had been done. You are projecting your life deep into history and I'm not sure that works out that way. I'm sure before that, some took desperate measures, others found a way, life does find a way after all.
Its a lot easier to live without options if you don't know about any. In the same way that before TV lots of people grew up poor and never knew it, because everyone around them was too.
I guess attending funerals and hearing about the deaths of girls I knew doesn't count as "a study" so you are right.
Options didn't exist then and many had enough of the pain by 25 and chose one way or another to end it. The fact that I knew over 30 people and only heard of a few over 25 wouldn't constitute a study either.
Of course back then nobody gave a sh!t about us and many the underlying reason for many of the deaths was covered up by family.
Oh, and by the way we were around for as long as civilization. We didn't wait for the word to be coined to be who we were. We didn't have a name for it but we found others like ourselves well before Dr. Benjamin.
You could always explain, Nathan, that you are not most people, and that some of the people who end up unhappy are the ones that don't have enough support. Let him know that his support could make the difference between you being unhappy or happy after transition.
In fact, I don't think you could really be 'transsexual' until the technology was there for the change, for you to be able to move from one to the other, some people lived as the opposite gender - mostly FtMs living as males - but before the science and technology, they would have been something else. Transgender (I think 1962 or so) or ->-bleeped-<-s (mid-19th Century if not before).
Many non-Judeo-Christian cultures have had two-spirited people back into pre-history. Just because they couldn't change their physical sex doesn't mean they weren't at least transgendered.
But back to the original post: Some may regret transitioning, either because all their other problems still exist or they had unrealistic expectations. I know very few TSs other than on this site, but at least one I know is disappointed because she wasn't wholly transformed into a beautiful, desirable woman when she got a vagina. ::)
Early on, like when Northern Jane transitioned, very few people accepted transsexuals as anything other than sexual deviants. That's a tough environment in which to live. People are much more accepting now. I have had people who know about me look at me with a raised eyebrow, but I have had no one treat me badly. If any studies exist linking suicide with SRS, I would look very carefully at the era of the study.
- Kate
I think realistic expectations are a major thing too.
Of course, I can add in the humor too as well and say wait I'm not just going to turn into some gorgeous girl Kate!?!? What madness is this!! :p
I think a combination of depression and expectations are what can let people down. Through transition some people just stay depressed I think and they don't work on that with anyone maybe or something? I know the first time I was transitioning (my failed attempt of course) I was depressed as heck. Now, worked through that and happy and transition is just going steady and ppppeeerrffect
Of the few surveys done on this topic
(sorry no reference, I saw this a bit back)
In 1987 87% were happy with transition.
In 1997 97% were happy with transition.
Quote from: K8 on September 01, 2009, 06:44:56 PMat least one I know is disappointed because she wasn't wholly transformed into a beautiful, desirable woman when she got a vagina. ::)
What?! You mean after I've been on T for a few years I'm not going to look like George Clooney? Or Brad Pitt? Or whoever the sexiest man in Hollywood is these days?! What a rip!!!
::)
Jay
Tell him the truth that very very few regret transitioning. And that's why they have the standards of care to make sure you know what you are getting into. And in the early stages the transition is reversable, you just stop taking the hormones and at least mostly go back. By the time people are getting surgery they're really committed.
And some people are gonna be unhappy transitioned or not. They have other problems lol.
Quote from: sneakersjay on September 01, 2009, 07:35:41 PM
What?! You mean after I've been on T for a few years I'm not going to look like George Clooney? Or Brad Pitt? Or whoever the sexiest man in Hollywood is these days?! What a rip!!!
Now you've burst my bubble, Jay. :( I thought you were already close to being Brad Pitt (only nicer). ;)
- Kate
Hey you may end up looking like other stars like ...
Charles Bronson
Don Knotts
Werner Klemperer
Werner's co-star in Hogan's Heroes, John Banner (Schultz)
Me, I think looking like Hogan would kick ass but I'll just end up looking like me oh well.
Quote from: Alex_C on September 03, 2009, 12:15:42 AM
Hey you may end up looking like other stars like ...
Charles Bronson
Don Knotts
Werner Klemperer
Werner's co-star in Hogan's Heroes, John Banner (Schultz)
Me, I think looking like Hogan would kick ass but I'll just end up looking like me oh well.
Somebody around here said I looked like Martin Sheen; I think I look more like Archie Bunker!
Jay
K8 said: "But back to the original post: Some may regret transitioning, either because all their other problems still exist or they had unrealistic expectations. I know very few TSs other than on this site, but at least one I know is disappointed because she wasn't wholly transformed into a beautiful, desirable woman when she got a vagina."
This is the most common disappointment that I have noticed from knowing hundreds of trans people. Some have unrealistic expectations, and dream of lovers coming out of the woodwork after SRS. Others believe it will solve all of their problems, and are surprised to realize that all (or most) of the problems are still there after SRS.
But inspite of that, very few of us "regret" transition. We learn to adapt, and sometimes we learn to be satisfied with things not being perfect.
I would be amazed if I turned into a desirable woman after SRS. Like many others here, I'm no spring chick. I only look forward to living life as me and not him. All the baggage I have as a male will be there waiting for me after transition, for the most part. I'm sure most if not all the women here are aware of that.
I'll be happy to find love, but I don't expect to find the kind of love I'm looking for. The only expectation I have is matching my exterior to my interior.
Maybe I'm wrong, but if anyone truly expects more than that, they aren't being very realistic. It's like cake. Everything else is the icing. Any non-gender related problems one has going into transition will still be around afterward. In the course of transition, we may lose friends, family, and even jobs. That may likely cause some degree of regret, but transitioning in and of itself should cause little regret, unless you in fact are not the person you thought you were (and counseling should have sorted that out). I hope I'm making some sense here without babbling on and on...
If it would be a contest for look alike before and after my transition in which i was been, They would say that before my transsition I would look alike Tom Arnold, and after my transsition as Rosy O'Donnell. But maybe they are wrong.