Hi all , as title really , would or would you not do it and why ? i have a gorgeous loving partner and two gorgeous children but if i had a chance to make my GID dissapear i honestley do not know what i would do knowing that i should have been born female in the first place and also loving my little family to bits, this is really really hard for me , lets say for instance you never had children in your life would you take the "pill" just for the sake of all the upset , harm , finance etc etc that usually comes with GID ?
Too much fantasy in the one little pill threads. I am stuck here much closer to a sort of reality to even think about it.
Yes, without hesitation.
Why?
Because GID sucks. I just want to be normal. Yes, I know "normal" can be pretty subjective.
Because as amazing as transitioning is, it still sucks. I shouldn't have to do it to feel closer to normal.
So, yes I would take a pill to get rid of GID. But this pill doesn't exist, so the next best thing is the green pill I love called estradiol, and a surgeon named Suporn.
Yeah well thanks for your input LordKAT, just a simple question on how strongly some people here think about their GID , thats all , its not a hard question , im just curious . Im sure their is plenty of fantasy on every forum everywhere .
Honestly, I can't say for 100% sure yes or no.
I probably would, in the end, provided it wouldn't "turn me into a girl" just allow me to fully accept the body I was born with and not feel so out of place in it.
That is to say, if all it did was remove the GID and not "who I am", then I'd go for it.
I "might" take it even if it did change me just so that I wouldn't have to live with "this", but that's a little less likely.
I already do take such a pill. It is Estradiol.
Enough said.
Janet
What GID?
I'm a female, not a male :)
Slowly fixing my body, but always knew it, always will be a female.
I'd hate becoming a male, people tried to make me one or at least expected me to be as one, it failed terribly and I don't want to be there again.
I don't even want to *want* it.
Yes Absolutely
To have GID is Hell to me, All this energy, time and money its consuming, pain and loss. Yah I could do with out it.
I often envy those who don't have it. It most be nice to be at ease with your Gender. Living a ordinary life.
Quote from: Myself on September 04, 2009, 12:29:04 PMI don't even want to *want* it.
girl you got that right.
No, I would never take such a pill. There is a cure for GID, it's called transitioning, HRT, and SRS. It's not about "curing" GID with some little pill, and so the entire premise is built on a faulty assumption. It's about correcting a birth defect and becoming the person on the outside that you already know you are on the inside. There can be no other cure.
i would not take it, because i don't act like a man, my body language is not of a man ect.... so it will be like still living a lie.
and such a magical pill exist and some people take it and it is called alcohol drug suicide ect... so i d rather work on the safer pill HRT.
i hate being a man so much that i don't want to think that such a pill might even exist.
Well, I would think one has to read certain pre-assumptions into the question in order to get the answer that clicks for them.
Part of the problem is that a pill only "cures" NOW. so it doesn't and can't take away the way you have felt all the previous years and so you would be basically conceding a part of your identity.
if you read the question from that point of view you are a lot less likely to say yes.
I'd guess that those who would still say yes have a lot to lose (family, career, etc) by transitioning....or know they will never be able to afford it...or have gone through some massive depression and such.
In THAT context, I'm not sure what I'd do but I'd have to consider it for the sake of my marriage.
But if the question was more like - "if you could have been given a shot at birth that would have cured GID before you were even aware of it?" then that becomes quite another thing because you would have grown up very comfortable and acclimated to the expectations and conditions of your physical gender and would never had any reason to consider any different gender role.
In that case, I'd suggest it's nothing ore than stubborn pride to say you wouldn't have wanted it.
Of course, i can't say all this without saying that whether it's magic pill or magic wish, my first choice over any other possible outcome would be to have been born fully female in the first place.
Even with the consequences that would necessarily have derived from it.
Quote from: Laura Hope on September 04, 2009, 02:47:52 PM
Well, I would think one has to read certain pre-assumptions into the question in order to get the answer that clicks for them.
Part of the problem is that a pill only "cures" NOW. so it doesn't and can't take away the way you have felt all the previous years and so you would be basically conceding a part of your identity.
if you read the question from that point of view you are a lot less likely to say yes.
I'd guess that those who would still say yes have a lot to lose (family, career, etc) by transitioning....or know they will never be able to afford it...or have gone through some massive depression and such.
In THAT context, I'm not sure what I'd do but I'd have to consider it for the sake of my marriage.
But if the question was more like - "if you could have been given a shot at birth that would have cured GID before you were even aware of it?" then that becomes quite another thing because you would have grown up very comfortable and acclimated to the expectations and conditions of your physical gender and would never had any reason to consider any different gender role.
In that case, I'd suggest it's nothing ore than stubborn pride to say you wouldn't have wanted it.
Of course, i can't say all this without saying that whether it's magic pill or magic wish, my first choice over any other possible outcome would be to have been born fully female in the first place.
Even with the consequences that would necessarily have derived from it.
Stubborn pride? Yes. I am happy with the identity I've built myself, and somehow I don't think it could ever be the same, or I could ever be the same, without my gender identity being the way it is now. I don't think I'd even want that pill from birth. Like some have said, in the long-run I think transitioning is much more rewarding than any other "cure" would be. I don't want to want a cure.
Quote from: Laura Hope on September 04, 2009, 02:47:52 PM
But if the question was more like - "if you could have been given a shot at birth that would have cured GID before you were even aware of it?" then that becomes quite another thing because you would have grown up very comfortable and acclimated to the expectations and conditions of your physical gender and would never had any reason to consider any different gender role.
I think we pretty much know what people reaction is to "if I could have started HRT at 12 or before"
and "if I could have just been more a normal female"
I mean, I think everyone would take one of these (probably the second one) over wanting to be a normal guy.. if they could ^^
Quote from: V on September 04, 2009, 03:04:45 PM
Stubborn pride? Yes. I am happy with the identity I've built myself, and somehow I don't think it could ever be the same, or I could ever be the same, without my gender identity being the way it is now. I don't think I'd even want that pill from birth. Like some have said, in the long-run I think transitioning is much more rewarding than any other "cure" would be. I don't want to want a cure.
I don't mean to offend but If I could have been given an injection at birth that would have made me genetically entirely female, THAT would have changed my identity in such a way that I couldn't have been entirely the person I am now just as much as an injection that would have altered my gender identity to fully male.
So the question of being a totally different person works either way.
Now, I suppose there are some among us who would not have wanted either, being very much attached to all the experiences and feelings that they experienced from birth to today. for them, I concede, it's not pride. just different priorities.
but if one is like me - which is to say I would without hesitation be glad to have taken a shot that would have made me genetically as well as mentally female - then I'm being intellectually inconsistent if I say I would not want to have had one that would have "fixed" my identity issues.
Post Merge: September 04, 2009, 03:17:58 PM
Quote from: Myself on September 04, 2009, 03:05:31 PM
I think we pretty much know what people reaction is to "if I could have started HRT at 12 or before"
and "if I could have just been more a normal female"
I mean, I think everyone would take one of these (probably the second one) over wanting to be a normal guy.. if they could ^^
I agree - but that STILL derives from having already realized you weren't (a guy).
I'm saying if you never had the opportunity to have realized a disporia in the first place.
but you're reading more into the question than was originally there, and basing your arguments on your assumptions. The question was not "would you take a pill that would change your identity to male/female?" or "would you take a pill that would erase all memory of dysphoria", but the question was: "Would you take a pill ( for example ) to make your GID dissapear?" (sic) which is an entirely different question, and actually does imply a pre-existing condition of GID.
Yes, you make a valid point, Laura. But yes, this topic wasn't exactly about taking an injection to change gender or sex at birth at all, it was about a pill later in life assuming a past with GID.
I'm not entirely sure my whole identity is based upon my gender identity disorder, however. It adds to my identity, but I have lived a very androgynous life as I would if I were born male, anyway. I think being born male wouldn't have changed me drastically as it is. But I know having a female identity would.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'(
I don't think this is possible even if there was a pill.
It's like unlearning all that you know. I know I'm female, so a pill that suddenly reverses that to make me feel male may stop some of my problems, I would still have the lingering problems from that time I "thought" I was a woman.
We are a collection of our thoughts and life experiences. What has been done, cannot be undone. At least not so easily.
I want nothing more than to be female , i know if i had the chance then i would go through it all to be female , as far as im concerned the "pill" could go to hell but the question was - would you sacrifice this "gift" for the sake of everything and everybody if you had the chance ? Anyways........
It was my first visit to the doctors today ;D and to be honest she did not really have a clue about GID but the way she was speaking to me was if i could have therapy and everything would be o.k which i know is just not possible , im female , end of story >:-) It was the way she was putting herself across to me as if i should do anything just to lead the life as i am as i have a partner and children and i suppose a decent career , she made me feel really really selfish , i suppose that is where this whole question has came from , it just made me think , o.k " what if " i could have this therapy or whatever and everything would be o.k , i do feel selfish in a way now but i know nothing will ever change the way i feel ...... ever .
Im sorry if i have offended anybody by this thread but i was expecting today ( the doctors ) to be a bit more positive , ive just came away feeling more depressed .
Bexxi
I would not take the pill. This is our challenge in this life for better or worse, and if we get out of it, through a pill or suicide or whatever, we'll just have to face it again in the next; so we may as well get on with it.
Quote from: FairyGirl on September 04, 2009, 03:29:30 PM
but you're reading more into the question than was originally there, and basing your arguments on your assumptions. The question was not "would you take a pill that would change your identity to male/female?" or "would you take a pill that would erase all memory of dysphoria", but the question was: "Would you take a pill ( for example ) to make your GID dissapear?" (sic) which is an entirely different question, and actually does imply a pre-existing condition of GID.
I don't think my comments imply that I thought otherwise.
Everything I said arises from the assumption that the person potentially receiving treatment actually has a GID to treat.
The only point was that what the original question means by the word "disappear" is vague enough that people can answer based on varying assumptions.
If you are saying "make what i have not stop being that way" it's a different question than "wipe it out of existence as if it never were"
And how you read that has an affect - potentially at least - on how you answer.
No, I wouldn't take such a pill (if I've understood the question): at puberty I was "forced" into being " male" by my well intentioned parents and a family doctor that knew no better and back then GID was unknown to them. So I've played a false role until now -- but never thought of it a disorder; just a sad mistake.
JJ
I don't think my comments imply that I thought otherwise.
Perhaps if you learned to write better, people would not misinterpret you so much, which seems to be a problem for you. Me, people know exactly what I'm sayin'. You know? Just sayin'.
A pill for what ?
GID is a defect of the body, a pill is not really enough, you also need surgeries to fix the body defects (FFS, SRS, etc)
My therapist asked me the same question. I'm sure others were asked too. Why would I want to take a pill to change who I am? The answer for me is, I wouldn't. GID sucks. Despite my appearance I'm a woman. I have no need or desire to change who I am, only my outward appearance.
I wouldn't take a pill. Despite the fact I still believe I am a fraud somehow, I don't want a pill to make it go away. I want to know why it is I feel the way I feel. Something happened to me and I will not rest until I find out what it is. Up until the age of 16 or something I was happy being a man, but then somehow something changed. The pill would not give me the answers I need but only help me avoid them.
Quote from: tekla on September 05, 2009, 01:19:48 AM
I don't think my comments imply that I thought otherwise.
Perhaps if you learned to write better, people would not misinterpret you so much, which seems to be a problem for you. Me, people know exactly what I'm sayin'. You know? Just sayin'.
I write like I write.
I will refrain from elaborating on why people know exactly what you are saying....but I do recognize what that reason is.
Quote from: Bexxi on September 04, 2009, 08:50:53 PMIt was the way she was putting herself across to me as if i should do anything just to lead the life as i am as i have a partner and children and i suppose a decent career , she made me feel really really selfish , i suppose that is where this whole question has came from , it just made me think , o.k " what if " i could have this therapy or whatever and everything would be o.k , i do feel selfish in a way now but i know nothing will ever change the way i feel ...... ever .
it's sad that people will try to make you feel selfish about wanting to cure something as debilitating as GID. I can only conclude that the ones who do that do not understand the problem at all. You should never be made to feel selfish for wanting to cure yourself.
No, I wouldn't. I've learned a lot through my experiences and I've learned to love myself for who I am. I would not want to change just to be "normal". I'm used to being different, and it's sort of my identity. I am seen and treated as a woman, so taking the pill wouldn't change anything except my genitals I guess.
I'm sorry, Bexxi, that your experience with the doctor was so poor. It is extremely frustrating. Fifteen years ago I went to one of the top gender clinics in the country. They couldn't figure out why I was there. I wasn't on drugs or alcohol, I wasn't suicidal, I had a good marriage and career, I wasn't in jail or living on the street. What was my problem? Well geez, guys, if you don't know what my problem is, why do you think you're a gender clinic? >:(
I did my share of drugs in the 60s and 70s, stuff to alter my reality. No thanks. I'll take reality, as lousy as it is sometimes, and deal with it. No pill for me, thank you very much. :eusa_naughty:
Bexxi, dear, I hope you can get a better doctor. *hugs to you*
- Kate
No, I wouldn't want to take a pill that 'cured' my feelings of GID. Curing a symptom doesn't cure the condition. Unless it also corrected my feelings and memories of the past 47 years of living with GID and all of the issues; depression, contemplating suicide on a weekly/daily basis, insecurity, inability to feel like the guy my body shows that I should be.
At this stage in my life I would far prefer to 'cure' myself by transitioning and becoming the woman that I was destined to be. Since coming to the realization that I have had GID for my whole life and discovering that there is a solution, a way to deal with it, I would much prefer go through with the difficulties, pain, and efforts of HRT, FFS, SRS, etc to become as close to a woman as possible. I hate being a 'guy'.
Deanna
Quote from: Becca on September 04, 2009, 09:41:24 PM
I would not take the pill. This is our challenge in this life for better or worse, and if we get out of it, through a pill or suicide or whatever, we'll just have to face it again in the next; so we may as well get on with it.
I agree with Becca on this one. A pill may affect the body, but it doesn't affect the soul. Without trying to spark a spiritual debate, I'd have to say that this is our struggle in this life, for good or for ill - some may fall, many will persevere. I would like to think that on the other side, I will be a stronger person for all the struggles. Some people face death of a parent, physical and sexual abuse, eating disorders, deformity, etc - adversity is ours to overcome as humans. We decide whether we will fall victim to it or grow from it. Looking at it from that angle, taking a pill seems like a cop-out to me, but is perfectly acceptable for others.
Quote from: calliope on September 06, 2009, 01:36:28 PM
Without trying to spark a spiritual debate
It kind of is a spiritual debate already. People keep trying and failing to find biological explanations for our perdicaments. The individuality of spirit is kind of hard to prove.
I think this quote from Sandy, made in another thread entirely, is a pretty good response to this thread as well:
Quote from: Sandy on September 04, 2009, 03:53:03 PM
The whole pill to make you normal bull->-bleeped-<- would make the whole goddamned world happy.
It removes the need for anyone who is "normal" from the effort to accept those who aren't. Wouldn't the religious fanatics love such a thing? If a trans person makes you uncomfortable, make them take the pill to make them normal!
If there were a pill that would eliminate GID at the brain level it would probably be mandatory to take it. More than likely by force if necessary. And would probably be the very first thing administered if a guy was caught wearing a bra or a woman stuffed a sock in her pants.
Then, of course, as a precautionary measure it would be administered to any woman with short hair or any man who wore pink.
Best not be caught swishing your hips guys! If you don't watch football you too could get the pill!
And girls if you don't swoon over the latest county singing heartthrob, well you are just too macho and that would have to be fixed.
If I was ever fed that pill, I would kill myself before it had a chance to take. But then again, I wouldn't be me anyway, so I'd be just as dead.
-Sandy
Thankyou K8 , your cool :icon_wave: .
No. I love being feminine. It IS me and there is no point in destoying a good thing.
Quote from: FairyGirl on September 06, 2009, 03:55:10 PM
I think this quote from Sandy, made in another thread entirely, is a pretty good response to this thread as well:
Well, I think if this case were to come along, then it would be the next step to require the "immunization" of every child shortly after birth to ensure that "all children are free of this condition". This way we will all be the same and there will be no conflict in the world and we will all be bored and suicidal, then they will provide us all with "immunizations" against unhappiness and suicidal thoughts. Hell, just remove all brains from children being born, while your at it.
Deanna
Quote from: FairyGirl on September 06, 2009, 03:55:10 PM
I think this quote from Sandy, made in another thread entirely, is a pretty good response to this thread as well:
Sounds like the beginnings of a storyline about a dystopian society in which this hellish reality occurs.
Hmm... no.
At the start of transition or earlier, I think many of us begin to intellectually (in addition to emotionally / physically) identify with the gender we feel we belong to. Personally, I started viewing femininity as a force of healing for humanity in general, perhaps life in general. Sisterhood, motherhood, et cetera.
So for a pill to take away GID, it would have to rebuild everything that makes me who I am, from personality to mannerisms to even ideals and beliefs. The resulting person wouldn't be me at all, and as such I wouldn't be cured. Someone random guy that sort of looked like me pretransition would be.
Quote from: calliope on September 07, 2009, 10:55:06 AM
Sounds like the beginnings of a storyline about a dystopian society in which this hellish reality occurs.
Actually I did write an outline for a story called "The Day the Last Lesbian Died" where in a future where LGBT tendencies were eliminated from birth. But one of the sources of creativity are also anchored in the region of the brain where gay and lesbian tendencies arise. As a result as the gay was bred out of the human race, it became less and less creative. Too late it was discovered but by then there wasn't anyone who was creative enough to re-ignite the creative spirit and by time the last lesbian died, the human race started to whither and die.
-Sandy
Quote from: Sandy on September 07, 2009, 08:37:30 PM
Actually I did write an outline for a story called "The Day the Last Lesbian Died" where in a future where LGBT tendencies were eliminated from birth. But one of the sources of creativity are also anchored in the region of the brain where gay and lesbian tendencies arise. As a result as the gay was bred out of the human race, it became less and less creative. Too late it was discovered but by then there wasn't anyone who was creative enough to re-ignite the creative spirit and by time the last lesbian died, the human race started to whither and die.
-Sandy
that sounds like a really interesting story Sandy, you should finish it!
Quote from: FairyGirl on September 07, 2009, 09:11:42 PM
that sounds like a really interesting story Sandy, you should finish it!
Thanks. I wrote it in one of my darker moods just prior to coming out of denial and when then Prez Bushed was yet again proclaiming that embryonic stem cell research held no scientific worth and was restructuring the EPA to give away more land to big oil for drilling.
I was pretty cynical about the viability of the human race when the most powerful person on the planet could not connect the dots between verb noun and adjective.
I'm still not really convinced though, because even though a Harvard constitutional scholar now occupies the west wing, the hate and invectives against him because of his race gives me little hope that we don't already occupy that dystopian future.
-Sandy
Unfortunately, too many people think everyone should be like them, seemingly unaware that others who think that way - that everyone should be like them - are different. (Me, no me, no me!) So who's right? They don't realize it is the richness of variety that give life meaning and staying power. If all trees were the same we wouldn't have trees. That's why the idea of a pill to "cure" GID is repugnant to many of us. Yes we want the pain to go away, but not at the cost of our essential being, what makes us who we are deep down, our soul if you will.
Have faith, Sandy. We have worked our way into a bad place, but the human race is pretty resilient. If we don't manage to destroy ourselves we have a good chance of a brighter future eventually. These cycles happen. I get terribly discouraged, but I've learned that in order to live I need to do what I can to fight the haters and bigots and then hope for the best.
*hugs*
Kate
I used to have a pessimistic view of humanity's future, but lately it seems like things are turning around for us. Especially the past few years, with the green initiative and one global community zeitgeist, it makes me think that humanity may be moving away from a dominator, hierarchical society toward a partnership model. I get more of a feeling of live and let live, than live and let die. The individual is seen as an important member - not for productivity's sake, but as a specialized cell in the greater organism. I see good things in store for us.
Put me down as a proof reader if you finish "The Day the Last Lesbian Died", Sandy! I love that cynical stuff. Kurt Vonnegut is my fave.
Quote from: calliope on September 08, 2009, 08:51:23 PM
I used to have a pessimistic view of humanity's future, but lately it seems like things are turning around for us. Especially the past few years, with the green initiative and one global community zeitgeist, it makes me think that humanity may be moving away from a dominator, hierarchical society toward a partnership model. I get more of a feeling of live and let live, than live and let die.
I hope you are right but I don't see it. there are a LOT of thuggish governments still out there around the world and still a lot of the "advanced" nations without the will to spread their civilized thinking beyond their own borders.
Optimism about the civilization level of some western nations? Absolutely. Humanity as a whole? Not so much, in my view.
No, I wouldn't want a g.i.d pill......I wouldn't have my children and grandchildren, or my past (yes, I'm one of a few who look back on that part of my life, and actually enjoyed much of it. Confusing? Not for me).
I would be someone else, have a different past, and have a different woman as a life partner.
I'm happy in my own new skin. It's a lot like being taken out of pain, and analyzing the time you spent in pain. I just enjoy the pain-free-ness of the present.
"Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero"
similarly,
"eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die"
Bev
"advanced" nations without the will to spread their civilized thinking beyond their own borders
Since that has always been accomplished, from almost time immortal, is to go into those places and say "Get civilized or we will kill you" I'm somewhat at a loss at to how that is really done, outside of the Peace Corps.
Quote from: Laura Hope on September 09, 2009, 05:49:56 PM
Optimism about the civilization level of some western nations? Absolutely. Humanity as a whole? Not so much, in my view.
Good point! My observations are restricted to American culture. I couldn't begin to guess at what the general feeling is like in other parts of the world. I can imagine that Europe is moving in a similar direction. China and the Soviets - probably not so much. And who knows about South America - they're as fathomable as an alien planet.
I don't think it's the job of advanced countries to spread anything. I like the idea of maybe guiding a developing nation out of the traditional dominator model and into a partnership society, but it has to be the people of that nation that want it. Otherwise, it's just more dominator methodology and counter productive.
I wouldn't take the "pill" – We all know that we were born with a birth defect and why would we want to change who we really are?
I've been fighting my desires for 40 + years – I've gone through hell because of it – I've made choices in my life that were not what I wanted, but "what I was expected to be" – isn't that enough? Do I have to start rethinking 40+ years for a "pill" that would make me feel "right" over a birth defect?
No way!!! Tried, been there, done that!!!
Steph
I've fallen in love with a certain TV show, "The Listener" (the star, Craig Olejnik, is totally hawt omg). The show featured an episode about a young FTM which was touching, sensitive, and very poignant. There is a scene in which the young boy's mother finds him and begs for her daughter Lisa (who is now the young boy, Daniel) to come back home- "What have you done to yourself?" she says, "Maybe they can find a drug." It's enough to send shivers down your spine.
You can see highlights of the episode if you live in the U.S. on the NBC website, which shows the scene I just described:
http://www (http://www).
nbc.com/the-listener/video/clips/lisa-says/1132157/
(the full episode and the entire season is also available to watch online)
Here's why I wouldn't take the hypothetical pill: I'm not particularly good at being male, regardless of GID. So if it's a choice between potential happiness as a girl and certified mediocrity as a guy, then that's no choice at all.
Transitioning sucks. I'd rather not have to go through it. So a lot of the time I'd love to have that pill. But that's magical thinking -- not much different from when I was eight years old and asking the Magic 8-Ball whether I would grow up to be a woman, and asking again when it gave a negative answer. So, yeah.
But mostly I'm just annoyed at how much of a pain transitioning is. And I don't mean the medical stuff or the therapy or gatekeeper issues or any of that, but the social part, how hard it is to deal with family, bigots, people who say incredibly offensive things about trans people, and so on.
I'd prefer a pill to make people stop being so stupid.
Quote from: Laura Hope on September 09, 2009, 05:49:56 PMOptimism about the civilization level of some western nations? Absolutely.
I agree with Ghandi: Western civilization would be a good idea.
Quote from: Alyssa M. on September 11, 2009, 02:21:44 AM
Transitioning sucks. I'd rather not have to go through it. So a lot of the time I'd love to have that pill. But that's magical thinking -- not much different from when I was eight years old and asking the Magic 8-Ball whether I would grow up to be a woman, and asking again when it gave a negative answer. So, yeah.
But mostly I'm just annoyed at how much of a pain transitioning is. And I don't mean the medical stuff or the therapy or gatekeeper issues or any of that, but the social part, how hard it is to deal with family, bigots, people who say incredibly offensive things about trans people, and so on.
I'd prefer a pill to make people stop being so stupid.
I agree with Ghandi: Western civilization would be a good idea.
I agree. If I looked like a babe transitioning wouldn't be a problem. I think I would have had more success if I started at 13 when I still looked very feminine. But circumstances were that I was 24 before I first took HRT and in my 30's before I started transitioning.
Now I am aware of the true limitations of transition I would probably go for a pill to eradicate my GID.