I was wondering how many other people here have difficulty relating to the people they meet at support groups? Or, perhaps more appropriately phrased, how many people here find support groups to be helpful to them?
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I've been to the TG support group in my city a few times over the last couple of years. Usually there are around 12-15 people there. Most of them are regulars, with 1 or 2 new faces each time...that...like me...don't find it worthwhile enough to return with any amount of frequency. About 90% of the regulars self-identify as TS (as opposed to CD/TV/etc).
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I guess what I find most frustrating, is the immaturity I find, and the extremely unrealistic expectations that group members have.
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As for immaturity: Most meetings generally turn into endless bouts of complaining about the same things, time and time again. Either that, or one person will ask the group a question that is supposedly "not a big deal" to them, and when no one in the group has an opinion that person agrees with, they will monopolize the conversation for the rest of the evening trying to convince everyone that their opinion is right.
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The regulars generally express through their complaints that they want to be accepted...or treated a certain way...by society...but they don't feel that they should be obligated to follow any of society's rules to obtain such acceptance...and somehow fail to grasp the relationship between the two. (an issue that even non-trans have to deal with)
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I could even stand the endless complaining...if it led to something. Some action...a desire to educate those outside of the community...a resolution of self-acceptance despite society...a constructive discussion of the pertinent issues...something...anything beyond the endless b--ch sessions.
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I do understand and empathize with the situation of most of the members of the group. Most of them are like me...late M2F transitioners that aren't particularly good physical candidates for such. I can understand and empathize with the feelings expressed...but see little to nothing positive that comes from it.
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There is a Gay/Lesbian discussion group at the same location that meets regularly too. While the issues are similar, I don't know them as well as those of the trans community, so often I sit silently and listen to the conversation. And even with the lack of direct involvement in the discussion, I find the time spent much more enjoyable. It's much akin to the difference of conversing with adults in an environment of self-structured maturity...as opposed to muddling through a relatively unstructured environment with immature children. Perhaps not the most polite comparison (considering most of the trans individuals are age 35+), but it's the most accurate one I could come up with.
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I suppose it's the frustration of feeling alone...even among others who are supposed to be "like me."
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Has anyone else had this problem? Are all support groups like this? (perhaps I should be looking for some other sort of group?) Any suggestions on how to find groups that might be more suitable?
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Honestly, I wouldn't mind just finding someone relatively mature that I could share a cup of coffee with every now and then. Topic of discussion: open to anything...as long as it's not endless whining, complaining, and unrealistic expressions of overabundant feelings of entitlement.
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Any tips on finding mature trans-accepting friends or groups in a medium-large city?
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Thanks.
Most meetings generally turn into endless bouts of complaining about the same things, time and time again.
That's all meetings, all the time, no matter where, when, or who is in them.
they want to be accepted...or treated a certain way...by society...but they don't feel that they should be obligated to follow any of society's rules to obtain such acceptance...and somehow fail to grasp the relationship between the two.
Lots of people like that in here too. Everywhere really.
Me, I like social groups for that reason, and if you want to meet adults acting like adults and not just bitching - find people working on political issues.
One commonality does not make a great friend.
I know a lot of LGBT people and have become close friends to only a few. But it's like that in every segment of human kind. One thing in common doesn't mean you'll get along.
Kat mentions politics as an exception. You could maybe throw religion in there too. And both are something that many people are passionate about.
Julie
Well I mentioned political stuff because it's always done on a time line - legislative sessions, elections - so there is an immediate deal to the work that precludes too much sitting around and bitching, and a lot of focus on getting stuff done.
I went to a TG support group and found a few friends that I still meet. I gave up on the regular club meetings as I did not particularly relate to the issues. But it has certainly helped me come out and be me. There was nothing like having another TG friend to meet in a club and get used to be in the general community.
Every one to what they are comfortable with as usual.
I think they can be a good place to realise you are not alone.
Cindy
Quote from: tekla on September 14, 2009, 12:17:15 AM
Me, I like social groups for that reason, and if you want to meet adults acting like adults and not just bitching - find people working on political issues.
Ugh...politics. I think you're probably right...but still...ugh...politics. ;)
I <3 politics!
That being said. I think the question is too black and white.
In the right group, with the right people, when you need them, the group can be pure gold.
And in the wrong group, with the wrong people, when you don't really need them, the group can be the biggest waste of time ever. Worse than eating a phonebook.
And everything in between.
it's all relative to what you need, what you get, and who with.
I don't care for them. The one around here is pretty useless, and I haven't been in years. It didn't do anything for me except expose me to some people that I don't ever want to be like. Disturbed, flaky people who are chock full of bad advice.
It didn't do anything for me except expose me to some people that I don't ever want to be like.
Actually, that's a pretty good thing, powerful in many respects. Most people live such narrow lives that they never meet anyone like that. Me, I think having negative examples is just as important as having positive ones.
Disturbed, flaky people who are chock full of bad advice.
Oh come on now, those people are the most fun to talk to. As for the advice just use your Jedi mind skills to cleverly reverse what they say. Really, if it wasn't for disturbed, flaky people I might have anyone to talk to. I'd certainly would not have anyone to work for. Straight up on that.
I've been to two or three.
Nothing special, but got to meet some cool people and some not to cool people so I mean I guess it was worth it? Who knows just depends on what you're going there for I guess.
Tekla, my therapist said the same thing, about the value of seeing people you do not want to take any cues from.
And someone I was talking too recently also said the particular group was more fun when it was more dysfunctional, as opposed to the iron fist that rules it now.
Very perceptive!
Well since you Guys and Girls are my support group, I have to admit flaky is cool.
Dysfunctional? Nah only now and again. Loving? Yea, Supportive? Very, Helped me? Bet your cute little asses.
:-* :-*
Cindy
I'm going to my first support group meeting on Thursday and to be honest I'm not thrilled about it. It's a womens group for dialectical behavioral therapy and I'm scared to death of it.
Becca
No problems.
Be kind and meek and then go for the jugular.
Thangs for the Mammories
Cindy
Sometimes the support groups are good, sometimes mediocre, sometimes downright boring. The trans groups, that is. My gay men's group is always good. But it's mostly a discussion group, not a support group. And it's not specifically geared to trans people.
It sounds like you need better facilitators. Most of the time when someone starts complaining too much or monopolizing or generalizing, one of our facilitators will draw the line. A good facilitator can really make the group. But it does help to have decent members, too. I can think of a few members I would like to get rid of...at least, I would be quite happy if they stopped coming. I'm not sending out a hit team or anything. Although, come to think of it...
I attended one once...once.
I found that even though I was in my mid-30s I was by far the youngest present and the discussion was quite boring to me as it was about stuff that is very unlikely to ever impact me (e.g. one facing a challenge about continued membership in an exclusive club on the coast,) plus was strictly about three of the people present monopolizing the session (if not for a particular three introductions would have been over in 15 minutes rather than taking half again the two hours planned for the entire meeting.) I realized I got absolutely nothing out of it so decided not to go back.
I had horrible experiences. First off, being significantly younger (20+ years) than the others in the group made it very difficult to connect. Being attractive, I found myself the target of unwanted attention (including one transwoman who stalked me). The levels of dysfunction within the group were astounding - I can mirror the stories others have related of the same issues rehashed over and over again without any real effort to move themselves forward.
Basically it caused me to avoid other transpeople like the plague. It wasn't until I met some folks closer in age and outlook to me at a trans-health conference that I began to build any connections with other trans people. And in those instances they were people I had things in common with besides being transsexual.
So my advice? Stay clear. Find social opportunities if you want to connect with other transpeople.
Quote from: Kay on September 13, 2009, 11:57:28 PM
I was wondering how many other people here have difficulty relating to the people they meet at support groups? Or, perhaps more appropriately phrased, how many people here find support groups to be helpful to them?
I've not been to one or know of any in my area (UK)
I go when I can. It's 70 miles away. I've found it valuable sometimes and boring sometimes. My first session was an eye-opener because I went as a CD and expected it to be TG not exclusively TS. I haven't established any relationships, but then it's 70 miles away.
I think they can be helpful, if for no other reason than to find out 1) there are others like you, and 2) you have it easier than some people.
- Kate
Quote from: pheonix on December 22, 2009, 08:51:18 AM
I had horrible experiences.
Ouch. I'm sorry, Pheonix. But I agree with what you said about finding something in common BESIDES being trans.
When my therapist was first nudging me toward support groups, I was skeptical. I knew that I wouldn't really make friends with people if we only had the trans thing in common, and I was doubtful that I would find anything else in common with any of them. I couldn't see the value of connecting with people just because they were trans.
After over a year of support groups, I have learned a lot. I have a couple of friends that I would be drawn to even if they weren't trans. I know quite a few people that I love to talk to about trans experiences and issues and not much else. Other people, well, I've gotten to know them well enough to appreciate them for other qualities that I wouldn't have exposed myself to if they weren't trans.
For instance, I love it when a couple of acquaintances talk about their three teenage sons; I never expected to be interested in conversations about kids. But the kids are interesting and unusual people; the parents are funny and articulate, and they love their sons fiercely. So I've stretched myself a bit by knowing this couple.
I knew these folks for at least six months before I even
started to get to know them better. It was an investment that might not have paid off. But if you don't play, you can't win. I figure it's like the lottery, only with somewhat better odds. :laugh:
If I said: "Gee, I took a college course once, but I didn't like the other students and the teacher seemed a bit full of himself, so I'm thinking college is not for me" I'm sure someone (me if no one else) would write back something to the tune of "Well there Kat, college is a lot bigger than one class, you can't just the entire college experience across the board just based on one class." And, they would be right.
First, no support group can be any better then the sum of the people in it. That's it, that's the deck you're playing with. Change the people, change the experience. And, also at that, it depends what kind of mood, what kind of place everyone is at that day, that hour. Like any sort of group activity (say sports teams, or bands) the internal energy is always changing, and some days you can do no wrong, other days, nothing goes right. That's just the way people are.
The levels of dysfunction within the group were astounding - I can mirror the stories others have related of the same issues rehashed over and over again without any real effort to move themselves forward.
Are you talking about my family? My state? This nation? The people over at FreeRepublic? I think that in general the levels of dysfunction across the board are off the charts anymore. I've always thought that in fact dysfunction is the normal state of affairs for humans, and its only though profound effort that things function to begin with.
Personally, I found it to be a frightening trap. I went only because I was scolded as not being "cooperative" when I didn't. So I shut up and played the game.
Groups form dynamics. The dynamic was to keep needing support. The dynamic was to keep coming back, not to learn and move on. The dynamic was someone would say, "Hey, I always did xyz, just like everyone else here, right?"
You really do not want to know what the "xyz's" were.
Much nodding and clapping ensued. And I sat there silently, mortified, but also humiliated and scared to be the only one not ME TOO! ing along with them.
I sometimes wonder how I survived the "therapy" process. Transition was easy. Bartering my self-esteem and personal integrity away to get those letters wasn't. It's a wound that I doubt will ever heal.
But, I'm sure everyone's experience varies...
As others have said it all depends what you want to get out of it.
I met a group of really nice women, and some I didn't like.
I go out with the ones I like and it has been wonderful to have friends who are at different stages of a journey. The people I don't like don't bother me at all and I'm polite to them as they are to me. In all walks of life we meet people we like and those we don't. I work very closely and very succesfully with some people that I don't personally like. But as a professional I can recognise their skill and together we can perform very good work. If we only learned from people we like I'd still be sitting in a corner wearing a pointy hat with D written on it. And since I was educated by the Christian Brothers I've had that done to me in real life.
JMO
Cindy
I would have found it very hard to just walk into a club the first time alone; no matter what sort of club. Meeting a couple of friends at a club was much different, and felt wonderful and liberating.
And since I was educated by the Christian Brothers I've had that done to me in real life.
The Jesuits that taught me always said the Christian Brothers made better wine then they did students. Which is fine by me, there can - as we both know - be too many smart people in a room, but you can never have enough wine.
But, do you know how to shut a Jesuit up? Like they clam up like a rock - and if know any Jesuits you'll know that a good trick. Just ask them were in the hell the Jesuit Order gets all that money. They are just dumbstruck.
When I told the CB's that I was giving up religion I was sent to the Jesuits for a weekend 'retreat' to rescue my soul.
Bunch of ordained loonies who told stories of exorcism and 'stuff'. I was too young to know but on reflection I think they were high on something. Maybe religion, maybe not.
The CB's in Liverpool were drunk irishmen who had no respect for themselves. They did give me a very good education. I wouldn't be the intellect I am without their help. And I do not say that with an ego, purely observation.
They were a cruel lot. If you were a Rugby player you got bye. If you were a me, you were sent to hell. I really don't think they knew what TG was, is or ever will be. Wasn't sure myself, but it was pretty damn obvious that I was female presenting. As a 'teacher' now I can see that in students, and of course other 'problems' kids have. If I can find the time to help kids now why couldn't they? Instead they would get drunk and stroke and pat you. YUK
Sorry
Cindy
Well this thread has worried me slightly, ive got my first support group meeting in a little over a week and i have been really looking forward to it and exited to finnaly meet some trans people other than myself. Norfolk isnt the most open minded place in he world and this support group meeting was really a big step on my starting transition.
From reading this thread however it seems like its going to be a lot like the endless complaining of internet ->-bleeped-<-s (no offence to the less egotistic and more helpfull people here at susans) that has helped me so little over the last couple of years.
Im also a little scared now, im quite pretty considering how little ive done towards transition yet, im 20 years old, i hope i dont get the same sort of negative attention that was mentioned earlier in the thread...............
El,
Go with an open mind. You are meeting a group of people. Some have problems greater than yours – problems other than just being trans – and some may have finally figured things out.
If you go on the defensive, you are bound to have problems. There are groups that work well and there are groups that don't work well. If you are open, positive, and fairly sure of yourself, you will do fine whatever the mix of the group.
I enjoy the meetings when there are certain people there. When it's full of only really strange people I find it less helpful. When people are forthcoming and express themselves, I learn things. When the facilitator is practically pulling teeth to get anything out of people it is pretty miserable. Regardless, it will be an education. :)
Good luck with your group. Let us know how it goes.
- Kate
I have gone to a group here a few times. While there I met a guy who was close to my age, with kids a partner and so on and we get a long really well. Last month instead of going to the meeting we just met up and had a cup of coffee. I will/may still go on occasion if there is a good topic but not monthly.
Myles
One of our groups was basically ruined for me by a new facilitator. It was a support group, and he started to run it as a discussion group. Other people had the same problem. Some of us made our views known; nothing changed. I (and others) stopped going.
But there are other groups in my city. When I quit this group, I had some reasonable alternatives. That won't be an option for everyone. And once I knew who I could get along with, I could arrange social meetings with individuals and small groups.
I can't complain too much. With nothing else to do on that particular night, I started going to the gay men's discussion group. It's terrific. Door closes, window opens?
Quote from: CindyJames on January 02, 2010, 01:06:57 AM
As others have said it all depends what you want to get out of it.
I can't completely agree with that; a large portion (perhaps the greater portion) depends on the others present, which all the good intention in the world on my part cannot change. When dealing with a few people who actively monopolized conversation it was more like attending a lecture than any sort of group. I realized the group had long ago gone down a certain path and there was no changing course.
Quote from: El on January 02, 2010, 06:04:41 AM
From reading this thread however it seems like its going to be a lot like the endless complaining of internet ->-bleeped-<-s (no offence to the less egotistic and more helpfull people here at susans) that has helped me so little over the last couple of years.
I'd also suggest not jumping to such a conclusion. Not all groups are made the same and there are some good ones around. I think what tends to happen in discussions like this is the problem of self-selecting samples, where the result tends to only be those with very strong feelings about the matter. In this case, I doubt there are too many who have particularly strong positive feelings for groups, e.g. they don't consider it the "must not miss" even of the month, but there are ones who have had strong negative experiences.
Further, speaking only for myself here, the experience is with a single group, not enough to even begin to make any sort of general statement. However, that group also happens to be 100% of what's available to me in a reasonable distance, i.e. not an eight hour round-trip.
Quote from: CindyJames on January 02, 2010, 02:06:57 am
As others have said it all depends what you want to get out of it.
I can't completely agree with that; a large portion (perhaps the greater portion) depends on the others present, which all the good intention in the world on my part cannot change. When dealing with a few people who actively monopolized conversation it was more like attending a lecture than any sort of group. I realized the group had long ago gone down a certain path and there was no changing course.
I suppose that if find a group monoploized and of no interest, yes I would walk away. But In my case I found a couple of people I liked enough to share a drink with and friendships started from that. But I then again, and no one take this the wrong way, I am no shrinking violet, If I find myself among a bunch of idiots I'm very likely to let them know. >:-)
Cindy
I've never been to a support group so I don't know what goes on at one?
Quote from: CindyJames on January 04, 2010, 01:50:50 AM
If I find myself among a bunch of idiots I'm very likely to let them know.
For the group in question, I just didn't see any value to going there, particularly since it was my therapist running the group. I figured it was worth saving the "challenging how she does things" stock until it was something that more directly impacted me.