Ive been going to my doc now for about 6months to get my shots. However, i have to pay HK$600 (nearly US$80) to get my shot since he is private. I told him that for financial reasons i cant keep paying and if I could buy my own T and bring it to him. He said that was fine but i would still have to pay HK$200. I then asked him if he could teach me how to self-inject so in the long run iwouldnt have to keep coming back but hew said 'no, thats too dangerous. You need professionals to do it" But dont all FTM's eventually learn how to self-inject? Isnt it expected of FTM's to learn eventually? I asked him what happens if i wanted to travel or go overseas for awhile. He told me that i should just skip all the shots until i come back! I dont have a choice to see anyone else as the local docs dont know much about Trans issues and they would refuse to do it. In the long run, financially, i couldnt keep it up - going to the docs. I need to learn. Isnt it the docs responsibility to teach their patients so they can be independant, and take care of themselves?
Hell yes self-injecting! I only had the first 4 or so done by the nurse and at the same time learned how to use the needle and draw the testosterone etc. then did about 3 injections with supervision and was given the go-ahead to do it myself at home.
That doctor just sounds like they want easy money >_< lol
Most transitioning people self-inject. I have no idea what your doctor is on about. As long as you know how to inject properly into the muscle, don't reuse needles, etc., it's not dangerous.
Sounds to me as if HK is completely backwards when it comes to trans-health care. ::) Obviously, it's better if you've got someone to show you how and make sure you are doing it properly, but in a pinch, if you can't get a doctor or nurse to show you, there are a bunch of videos on youtube that feature transmen showing how they do their injections. This one is my favorite. (It's cheesy, but in a good way. ;D And it actually tells you more than I got from my medical professionals.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdlduQ4G20g# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdlduQ4G20g#)
Can you find another trans individual in the area who could teach you how to self-inject? Maybe through support groups or something?
Hey Jamie, thanks for the vid! Appreciate the help.
Quicksand. There are no support groups here unfortunately but I do know an FTM who would be able to show me how to inject. It would just be nice to have my doc show me how to do it u know. I still want to keep my doc so he can write me my surgery letter when i need it. Can tell u Hong Kong aint the place to be when transitioning thats for sure...
Easy money for them im sure.
You might also want to remind him that people with diabetes self inject all over the world...
He brought that up himself saying that 'if it was an everyday necessity such as diabetes then it would be ok but because its intramuscular its more dangerous and seeing as you do it once every few weeks its best u just come in.' I dont know...
Hi Shelina,
Your doctor is such a prick to enmesh you. With $80 in my country you can have have hormones for 2 months.
ADVICE:
Whether Testosterone or Estrogen the techniques is the same. I started self-injecting Estradiol Valerate for more than 1 month now. I use a technique that a boyfriend nurse showed me and I wanna share with you and it's up to you to see if you wanna try it.
The safest place is the upper arm.
1. Clean the area you will inject with an antiseptic or just simply wash the area.
2. Prepare a mini-band aid.
3. Fill your syringe with the hormone.
4. Touch the tip of the needle to the part you wanna inject, then SLOWLY inject yourself. Once it reaches the optimum depth, press it to diffuse the hormone in your body.
5. When done, slowly remove the needle, then you put the band aid. The band aid must stay minimum 24 hours to avoid infection.
NEVER SELF-INJECT IN YOUR BUTT, MY NURSE FRIEND TOLD ME THERE IS A VEIN IN THE BUTTOCKS THAT IF YOU ACCIDENTALLY HIT IT, IT CAN PARALYSE YOU FOR LIFE!
Hey JoshB, you look 100% male, very handsome! ;)
Unless you have a very practised and professional technique, no more than 0.5ml should be injected into the deltoid (upper arm muscle). Quads and glutes are larger muscles and it is therefore better to inject anything more than 0.5ml in them...
I've been self injecting since the first shot. My endo wants all his transpatients to learn how to do it themselves so they don't have to keep paying for injection visits and when they travel. He gave me instructions on it and answered any questions.
The first shots I would get bruising and pain for several days but I'm getting better. I get less or no bruising, less pain and it doesn't last as long. I inject every week. I could be wrong but I think most transmen do their own shots eventually. As long as you follow directions and keep things sterile you should be O.K.
Sorry guy, but it sounds like your doctor's just saying this stuff so he'll keep getting $$$. :-\
Hitting a vein with a needle will not paralyze you for life.
You need to sever a nerve to cause paralysis of any kind.
Min's right. Your nurse friend is having you on or hasn't a clue. You don't get paralyzed from hitting a vein. And there's no more risk from shooting in the butt than anywhere else - if you're flexible enough, it's a good place to shoot T because of the lack of nerves.
Dennis
I can't imagine why any doctor would tell you not to self-inject. I've never had anyone else do my shots; the day I got my first T prescription, my doctor showed me how to inject, then had me do my first shot in front of her so she knew I had the technique down. It's much cheaper, and considering I'll have to do a shot a week until I die, pretty much, I don't think it would make much sense otherwise. If your doc won't budge on this, I'd recommend going to someone else.
SD
Same as above did the first shot in the docs office. Not sure why they Doc would not have you do it on your own, unless they just want the money.
Myles
Quote from: myles on September 19, 2009, 09:42:47 PM
Same as above did the first shot in the docs office. Not sure why they Doc would not have you do it on your own, unless they just want the money.
Myles
yeah, either he's grossly misinformed or he plans to milk you for years. besides the travel and money issue, you don't want to be dependent on him for your shots.
Quote from: JoshB on September 18, 2009, 10:06:56 PMI dont have a choice to see anyone else as the local docs dont know much about Trans issues and they would refuse to do it.
If you are paying cash and your doctor need not document each and every one
of your "visits" on his ledger, the cash is probably going directly into his pocket.
In the words of P.T. Barnum, the last thing he would want to do is "wise up a sucker".
Once again the term "T-friendly" only means $$$$ for those providing a "service".
Self injection, if not done properly, can carry a certain amount of health risk.
If you can get the "T" (by perscription) on your own, then perhaps you can
find a walk in clinic where they would by willing to teach you to do it yourself.
It is not difficult to do safely as I have been self injecting, since I began HRT.
I think most FTMs in the US tend to get the first few shots done, then learn to self-inject. Then there are those who get a bit of counseling, it's just dead-on that I'm a man, know I'm a man, have known I'm a man etc so no quibbles about that, plus being low-income means, Here's your needles and stuff Bud, figure it out! So I read a ton on the Internet, PLUS I'd done a lot of watching while a vet tech years ago plus been on the recieving end of lots of needles in the Army etc so ... I just figured it out.
I'm having less trouble now that it's been almost 3 months, injecting weekly, with those oh-so-manly #22's. Yes I'm gonna try to get some #24's or so next order.
My doc said to use the leg not the butt too but mainly I don't feel good about twisting around that much, I may try it sometime but for now the leg works, I alternate legs. Last week's shot the needle was a bit dull and I'm stubborn and didn't want to change it out (some of 'em seem to be dull right out of the package) so I just felt it more than usual.
I'm NOT going to say "anyone can do this" but I AM going to say "it's a learn-able skill".
Post Merge: September 19, 2009, 11:26:54 PM
Let me say something, when you poke it in the skin will complain, that's it's job. The job of the skin is to raise the alarm if something pokes it. Once you're in the skin, and a skilled, sure, confident hand, the kind some docs and nurses have that can just give you a shot without your hardly feeling it, can make this almost a non-issue. When you're new you're gonna notice it, and the nice thing you'll learn is, once the needle has made a hole in the skin, the stuff under it has a lot less nerves, and of course the sides of the needle are smooth, you'll feel a "buttery" feeling as it slides in, and you may feel the needle nudging through layers below the skin, basically going from the fat layer to various thin layers of fascia the muscle bodies are wrapped in, no big deal. You may get a bit of soreness at the injection site the day or two afterward, but again no big deal, you won't be limping or anything.
There are tons of vids on YouTube of guys injecting too so you can learn from these.
I'm just grateful to have a sis that is a registered nurse and willing to stab me.
Interesting...
I would be willing to stab you any time you want. :icon_chuckel:
Having a skilled medico on hand to stab me would be great. Some docs/nurses are so great.
One hint: You don't HAVE to watch the needle poke the skin and go in - once you make sure you're angled right (right angles to the skin) and in the right spot, it's OK to look somewhere else while you do the poke.
Quote from: Alex_C on September 19, 2009, 11:21:12 PM
I think most FTMs in the US tend to get the first few shots done, then learn to self-inject. Then there are those who get a bit of counseling, it's just dead-on that I'm a man, know I'm a man, have known I'm a man etc so no quibbles about that, plus being low-income means, Here's your needles and stuff Bud, figure it out! So I read a ton on the Internet, PLUS I'd done a lot of watching while a vet tech years ago plus been on the recieving end of lots of needles in the Army etc so ... I just figured it out.
I'm having less trouble now that it's been almost 3 months, injecting weekly, with those oh-so-manly #22's. Yes I'm gonna try to get some #24's or so next order.
My doc said to use the leg not the butt too but mainly I don't feel good about twisting around that much, I may try it sometime but for now the leg works, I alternate legs. Last week's shot the needle was a bit dull and I'm stubborn and didn't want to change it out (some of 'em seem to be dull right out of the package) so I just felt it more than usual.
Those needles are ungodly large, dude... I use an 18 for drawing, but a 25 for shooting. I had to use 22s twice, and each time ended up with extensive bruising. As per the rest... you didn't go to Hastings in Santa Cruz for your scrip, did you? Because that's the exact protocol I went through when I went to her.
SD
The 22's are not that bad. I use them just fine.
Josh - Are you planning to have your surgery through the national health in HK, or are you planning to travel abroad for it? The reason I ask is that there are some docs who don't require a letter, or who will wave it if you can convince them that you are sane and completely sure. Especially if getting a letter would pose a great hardship for you, as it sounds as if it could be. And if you are planning to go with a doc who won't budge on the issue, is there any chance you can save up enough to come spend 3 -4 months in the States, go to therapy to get the letter, and get your surgery? I know that may not be possible, but I'm trying to brainstorm how you can get out from under the control of a doctor who seems to be taking advantage of you.
Post Merge: September 20, 2009, 12:59:48 AM
Quote from: noxdraconis on September 20, 2009, 12:56:02 AM
The 22's are not that bad. I use them just fine.
I've used the 22s and the 25s. Strangely enough, I find the 25s hurt more when they go in, but they are so much less psychologically intimidating that I prefer them.
Even though I can get all surgeries for free here in HK as i'm a permanent resident, I have no interest in being touched by the surgeon here as all the techniques he uses leave the biggest scars possible and there is no quality involved. Im planning to go to the US to get top surgery done. Thats why im scared to leave this doc and start self-injecting because i need him to write me a letter for when i want surgery. There would be n chance that i could spend a few months in the US for therapy....financially as well as getting time off work.
I also need my psychologist report so the clinical psychologist that i've been seeing talks for about 99% of the time. He keeps saying that i need to do more research, that im too young, cant make decisions. He says that I need to go and collect statistics about how after having top surgery what are the long term effects yada yada, and when i have a good enough argument that I need to convince him that im ready for surgery.
He keeps telling me that he has a degree in biochemistry and that i dont so he understands what the body has to go through after surgery and if it rly is necessary. Sry but i rly feel like telling him to go F*** himself. Half the other stuff he says to me, i feel like getting up and walking out but I act as if i agree and stay just so i can get my report, dont know if it will be worth it in the end, seeing as he'll probably write something that "Josh's life is going well, there is no urgency for surgery' or something like it. He says that it doesnt seem urgent for me to have surgery. Last time i left i wass so upset, i was on the verge of tears. Telling me that it was best that i stay ina job such as admin.
So at the moment i feel stuck in a rut with all the ppl that i have to see.
That really sucks. >:( But, since you are planning to go private for surgery I highly recommend that you contact the surgeons on your short list, explain what the system is like in Hong Kong, and see if they will be willing to waive the letters. I know Dr. Tholen in Minneapolis believes that chest surgery should be a personal choice and doesn't require a letter (although he is reluctant to go behind the back of any therapist who is currently working with a patient.) I've also heard that Brownstein officially requires a letter, but has been known to waive it if he feels it's appropriate to do so. Don't know about any others, but it doesn't hurt to ask.
What is all of this about not shooting yourself in the butt? The nurses always poked me there, and now I poke myself there. Never been a problem. But half the guys I know have some kind of horror story about injecting in the thigh.
Seriously, wtf?
As long as you stick to the outside, injecting in the butt is fine. If you let it move too far to the inside there is a chance of hitting the Sciatic Nerve, which could cause major problems. (That's probably what Shelina was thinking of.) But you'd have to be pretty far off target to do that.
Quote from: Jamie-o on September 20, 2009, 02:53:17 AM
But you'd have to be pretty far off target to do that.
Exactly.
in japan as well injections are administered at a clinic~ usually in the butt.
have you started to try it yourself? i don't see a reason not to if you think you could teach yourself. do you have any acquaintances who are nurses or doctors that could teach you in person?
that is nice that your surgeries would be covered by insurance... but i don't blame you for not wanting to get things done in hong kong. would you ever consider thailand? that is where my boyfriend got his top and hysto.
... Your doctor seems like a bit of an ass..
I suggest googling for top surgery info, including countless blog entries, and so on, and printing it out. Heck, I'd print out several threads on here.
it would probably take a full pack of paper, a whole cartridge of ink, and about three days of printing, but it would make for an awesome effect to walk into the doctors office, drop 3-4 kilos of paper on the desk, and go "here's my research"...
In fact, .. I'm starting to think I'm gonna start printing things out myself.
Very interesting. If I am ever in your area perhaps.
Quote from: Miniar on September 20, 2009, 11:24:57 AM... I'm starting to think I'm gonna start printing things out myself.
Very good idea, most of what I muse about here is
working out my "life story" that goes into my shinks file.
Yeah I"m with Dr Hastings.
Quote from: noxdraconis on September 20, 2009, 12:56:02 AMThe 22's are not that bad. I use them just fine.
Yeah, I've used 21's-23's depending on what the pharmacy has. I haven't noticed a difference from them on which ones cause bruising, pain, soreness, etc. I think it's mostly about technique.
I tried to do it once myself but chickened out. My friends gf is a nurse and she gave me my first shot so i can ask her to teach me.
I do feel like printing everything out on here and dropping it on his desk. 'Convinced yet?" Hell, there shouldnt be a need to argue with him to convince him that im ready. I know im ready, it sucks having a decision in the hands of others.
I have thought about Thailand but for some reason, no offence to those out there, i dont think of it as a place for quality. I really have only connected it with MTF surgeries. I know it would definitly be cheaper but im pretty hesitant. I only have chest and i want to make the best out of it. But sometimes beggars cant be choosers.
Quote from: JoshB on September 21, 2009, 06:38:04 AM
I have thought about Thailand but for some reason, no offence to those out there, i dont think of it as a place for quality. I really have only connected it with MTF surgeries. I know it would definitly be cheaper but im pretty hesitant. I only have chest and i want to make the best out of it. But sometimes beggars cant be choosers.
i dunno~ at first when i heard that my boyfriend went to thailand, i thought like.. ick, some cheapo back alley surgery how-could-you-do-that... but he explained to me that no, actually the thai doctors are real professionals, the equipment is state of the art, they give wonderful post-op care, and they perform those surgeries more than anyone so they know what they're doing.
his chest looks totally natural under a shirt and feels really authentic, but the scares are pretty visible. i don't think that's because of thailand though, just is the nature of the surgery. his hysto scar is nice and discreet and very low... in japan apprently they just cut you straight across the stomach and it's very noticable. i dunno about surgeries in america of hk~
anyway that's not really about self-injecting but... haha. good luck with that part! hopefully your doctor stops being dumb.
My health centre currently won't let me self inject either. I don't have to pay for the injections, it's just annoying that I have to make all these appointments and schedule everything around them. I have asked why and they just said it's not allowed... but I know plenty of people in the UK self inject testosterone.
Anybody have any winning arguments for us to make our case? I'd rather self inject, it's more convenient, I have absolutely no needle phobia and to be honest, I'd appreciate not having to explain why I'm getting a testosterone injection every time I go down there and they have me see a different nurse.
Did my shot yesterday and no problems other than, I think I pushed the stuff in a bit fast and then took the needle out a bit too soon, the result was some of the stuff leaking out! Oops. A little pressure and massage took care of that.