Slightly feel redic for posting this but for some reason (not sure if im jus retarted or over tired...but i never thought there was a difference until i looked it up) there seems to be a difference that I'm unaware of or just cant seem to grasp, i googled it and came across this...
'Transgender' describes a person, male or female, who dresses, behaves or presents themselves in a way that is different from their gender norm. Transgender includes ->-bleeped-<-s/crossdressers, Drag Queens/Kings, androgynes and genderqueers. It does NOT include transsexual people.
'Transsexual' describes a person, male or female, born with a congenital neurological intersex condition (Benjamin's syndrome). Although transsexualism almost always requires some form of medical intervention up to and including genital surgery, it is not defined by, nor restricted to, that treatment.
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Transsexualism is a medical condition, and transsexuals are not gender variant. Every true TS believes in a binary gender construct and therefore cannot be gender variant. Their bodies are wrong, not their gender (who they are).
->-bleeped-<- is a mere choice, and transgenders are gender variant since they will never be completely women and refuse to behave as men. They are something between men and women and are happy like that, and don't want the surgery. Transgender is a term used to erase the identity and culture of true transsexuals - those who actually change sex.
Transgenders are mostly men who want to keep their original parts, maybe practice fetish, and have the rights and privileges of being a woman, without doing anything to earn such.
Lets look at the words:
Transsexual - Trans+ means "to cross" and the +sexual part refers to the physical body. To cross, there must be 2 options. If you cross a river, you are either on one side or the other. It also implies surgery, since that is the only way to change the body (sex).
Transgender - It is logically impossible. Trans+ means to cross, but gender refers to your brain and nature. Why would a person destroy their nature and become what they are not? It was a term coined by Charles "Virginia" Prince. He was a married crossdresser who hated TSs (those who actually need the surgery), but felt he was somehow better than ->-bleeped-<-s. So he wanted to distance himself from ->-bleeped-<-s and transsexuals and live somewhere between. He was even a terrorist according to some who claim to have been at Stonewall. Who else would throw IEDs at the police besides a terrorist?
----------------
People who identify as transgender or transsexual are usually people who are born with typical male or female anatomies but feel as though they've been born into the "wrong body." For example, a person who identifies as transgender or transsexual may have typical female anatomy but feel like a male and seek to become male by taking hormones or electing to have sex reassignment surgeries.
People who have intersex conditions have anatomy that is not considered typically male or female. Most people with intersex conditions come to medical attention because doctors or parents notice something unusual about their bodies. In contrast, people who are transgendered have an internal experience of gender identity that is different from most people.
Many people confuse transgender and transsexual people with people with intersex conditions because they see two groups of people who would like to choose their own gender identity and sometimes those choices require hormonal treatments and/or surgery. These are similarities. It's also true, albeit rare, that some people who have intersex conditions also decide to change genders at some point in their life, so some people with intersex conditions might also identify themselves as transgender or transsexual.
In spite of these similarities, these two groups should not be and cannot be thought of as one. The truth is that the vast majority of people with intersex conditions identify as male or female rather than transgender or transsexual. Thus, where all people who identify as transgender or transsexual experience problems with their gender identity, only a small portion of intersex people experience these problems.
It's also important to understand the differences between these two groups because in spite of some similarities they face many different struggles, including different forms of discrimination. The differences between transgender and transsexual and intersex have been understood by lawmakers in countries such as Australia where lawmakers have publicly acknowledged that people with intersex conditions have distinct needs from people who identify as transgender or transsexual.
People who identify as transgender or transsexual also face discrimination and deserve equality. We also believe that people with intersex conditions and folks who identify as transgender or transsexual can and should continue to work together on human rights issues; however, there are important differences to keep in mind so that both groups can work toward a better future.
so can someone see why im confused....anyone that can clear this up for me...im just tryingt o make sure im very well educated on all terms and such before i do start therapy...so that the doc cant throw any curve balls at me...if anyone catchs my drift
d.j
p.s sorry so long...
Most of us actually DO use the term "transgender" as an umbrella term that includes transsexuals. I believe the term was first used as a way to distinguish between transsexuals and other gender-nonconforming people, and some folks do use the term that way. But in my experience in popular and scholarly spheres, transgender is usually a general term that includes transsexuals.
I see transgender as being gender dysphoric of some degree, and transsexual if you actually begin transition. It's like a pokemon leveling up and evolving by using a testosterstone or esterstone (as opposed to evolving to DragKing or DragQueen.)
/nerd.
Quote from: Autumn on September 25, 2009, 01:40:07 AM
I see transgender as being gender dysphoric of some degree, and transsexual if you actually begin transition. It's like a pokemon leveling up and evolving by using a testosterstone or esterstone (as opposed to evolving to DragKing or DragQueen.)
/nerd.
haha thanks that gives me some clearity...and i love the comparison to pokemon...hilarious
I used transgender as an umbrella term. Transsexuals are transgendered, just as crossdressers are.
These terms are defined on Susans fwiw, to cut down on just this kind of debate.
Every true TS believes in a binary gender construct and therefore cannot be gender variant.
Either, this is wrong, or I'm not a true transsexual, or I'm the exception that proves the rule.
To add to the topic...
The following is from the
Intersex Society of North America (http://www.isna.org/)Quote"Intersex" is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. Or a person may be born with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris, or lacking a vaginal opening, or a boy may be born with a notably small penis, or with a scrotum that is divided so that it has formed more like labia. Or a person may be born with mosaic genetics, so that some of her cells have XX chromosomes and some of them have XY.
Though we speak of intersex as an inborn condition, intersex anatomy doesn't always show up at birth. Sometimes a person isn't found to have intersex anatomy until she or he reaches the age of puberty, or finds himself an infertile adult, or dies of old age and is autopsied. Some people live and die with intersex anatomy without anyone (including themselves) ever knowing.
Which variations of sexual anatomy count as intersex? In practice, different people have different answers to that question. That's not surprising, because intersex isn't a discreet or natural category.
What does this mean? Intersex is a socially constructed category that reflects real biological variation. To better explain this, we can liken the sex spectrum to the color spectrum. There's no question that in nature there are different wavelengths that translate into colors most of us see as red, blue, orange, yellow. But the decision to distinguish, say, between orange and red-orange is made only when we need it—like when we're asking for a particular paint color. Sometimes social necessity leads us to make color distinctions that otherwise would seem incorrect or irrational, as, for instance, when we call certain people "black" or "white" when they're not especially black or white as we would otherwise use the terms.
In the same way, nature presents us with sex anatomy spectrums. Breasts, penises, clitorises, scrotums, labia, gonads—all of these vary in size and shape and morphology. So-called "sex" chromosomes can vary quite a bit, too. But in human cultures, sex categories get simplified into male, female, and sometimes intersex, in order to simplify social interactions, express what we know and feel, and maintain order.
So nature doesn't decide where the category of "male" ends and the category of "intersex" begins, or where the category of "intersex" ends and the category of "female" begins. Humans decide. Humans (today, typically doctors) decide how small a penis has to be, or how unusual a combination of parts has to be, before it counts as intersex. Humans decide whether a person with XXY chromosomes or XY chromosomes and androgen insensitivity will count as intersex.
In our work, we find that doctors' opinions about what should count as "intersex" vary substantially. Some think you have to have "ambiguous genitalia" to count as intersex, even if your inside is mostly of one sex and your outside is mostly of another. Some think your brain has to be exposed to an unusual mix of hormones prenatally to count as intersex—so that even if you're born with atypical genitalia, you're not intersex unless your brain experienced atypical development. And some think you have to have both ovarian and testicular tissue to count as intersex.
Rather than trying to play a semantic game that never ends, we at ISNA take a pragmatic approach to the question of who counts as intersex. We work to build a world free of shame, secrecy, and unwanted genital surgeries for anyone born with what someone believes to be non-standard sexual anatomy.
By the way, because some forms of intersex signal underlying metabolic concerns, a person who thinks she or he might be intersex should seek a diagnosis and find out if she or he needs professional healthcare.
-={LR}=-
I had some problems with the following.
Quote
->-bleeped-<- is a mere choice
Well, i'm glad to know that! It should be simple for me to "unchoose" GID now :laugh:
Quote
and transgenders are gender variant since they will never be completely women and refuse to behave as men........
Kind of leaves out the genetic girls that are TG ???
Quote
Transgenders are mostly men who want to keep their original parts, maybe practice fetish, and have the rights and privileges of being a woman, without doing anything to earn such.
or perhaps they were born genetic girls, or perhaps they are androgyne, or perhaps they have a life situation that precludes transition, and so on. Lots of people are TG without choosing SRS.
fetish? not so much ???
Quote from: riven_one on September 25, 2009, 10:05:05 AM
...Lots of people are TG without choosing SRS.
One of the points/differences the OP was trying to make. ::)
-=LR}=-
I DON'T like the transgender umbrella term, because the umbrella is too wide. Folks who have transitioned sex (transsexuals) are very different than gender nonconforming folks who identify with thier birth sex. There should be a CLEAR seperation of terms to make it abundently clear to people the difference.
I am transsexual and I am intersex (I was born infertile, with had genital surgery as an infant because I had atypical genitials). I transitioned my assigned sex, not my gender. There is nothing transgender about me. I was born intersex and transitioned my assigned sex.
I have to agree except with the last part. I do not like grouping transgender and transsexual folks together. Being transsexual is a medical state that requires corrective means. Being transgender is not. Call me a sepratist...but that is my opinion and I am sticking to it. I don't like the association.
I should note though, benjimans syndrome, is a load of crock, there is no such thing.
The sooner they drop the umbrella association, the better. I am getting sick of getting grouped with folks who identify with thier birth sex. It infuriates me to no end. I am not a drag queen or CD, so quit making the association. I am a woman with a correctible medical condition. Plain and simple.
Post Merge: September 25, 2009, 02:25:52 PM
Quote from: riven_one on September 25, 2009, 10:05:05 AM
I had some problems with the following.
Well, i'm glad to know that! It should be simple for me to "unchoose" GID now :laugh:
Kind of leaves out the genetic girls that are TG ???
or perhaps they were born genetic girls, or perhaps they are androgyne, or perhaps they have a life situation that precludes transition, and so on. Lots of people are TG without choosing SRS.
fetish? not so much ???
Don't confuse being transsexual and the term transgender. You completely missed the point of the post. If you are transitioning to live full time as a woman, are on HRT, and identify as a woman...thats TRANSSEXUAL, NOT TRANSGENDER. Get what is being said here straight.
Quote from: Miniar on September 25, 2009, 08:57:15 AM
Every true TS believes in a binary gender construct and therefore cannot be gender variant.
Either, this is wrong, or I'm not a true transsexual, or I'm the exception that proves the rule.
I am a guy, not a girl or something else. That doesn't mean that I subscribe to the binary model...the definition above makes "true transsexuals" sound pretty blinkered, doesn't it?
At the same time, I know that in some ways I will always be a hybrid. I was brought up as a girl, and for many years I tried to conform to that label (I still have the scars from those years). I still have some female anatomical structures, and I'm still struggling to define myself as a man.
Post Merge: September 25, 2009, 12:29:51 PM
Quote from: sweetstars on September 25, 2009, 02:14:51 PM
Don't confuse being transsexual and the term transgender. You completely missed the point of the post. If you are transitioning to live full time as a woman, are on HRT, and identify as a woman...thats TRANSSEXUAL, NOT TRANSGENDER. Get what is being said here straight.
Not quite...IF you use transgender as an umbrella term. Some do and some don't.
I agree that the umbrella has disadvantages, but it also has advantages. For now, at least in my experience, it's more common to use the word transgender as an umbrella term.
I should also point out that Susan's Place specifically includes transsexuals under the umbrella...I'm just sayin'.
Of course, since I'm fully transitioned and don't knowingly exhibit any "feminine" mannerisms, dress, or other characteristics...does that mean that I'm not trans anymore? I think it's up to the individual to decide, but that can be problematic, too.
It's a hard problem.
Ok, you Googled this, where exactly did you get this material from. I would like to view it and see the context of the material, what the author's stance is on Transgendered/ Transexuals, does the author have an agenda.
-------------------------
Is this where you got part of the information?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108235143AAS6JOo (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108235143AAS6JOo)
If so, I don't see any research showing where that "opinion" came from.
Sarah L.
I think the original article is quite biased and closed-minded.
These are just my opinions, they may or may not relate to anyone else's:
I don't necessarily believe in a binary gender construct as the "only" construct. I see a whole spectrum and I think that everyone along the spectrum deserves respect and validation. Now, as far as my gender goes, I fit firmly in the "male" category. I'm not a woman, I'm not genderqueer, but does that mean that nobody can be? No. When it comes to my sexual orientation, I'm closer to the "likes girls" side, but not enough that I'm willing to put myself in an exclusionary "box" that says I only like girls, etc. But when it comes to my gender, I'm quite happy with the exclusionary box of "male".
As Arch said, I'm never going to be a bio-guy. I've spent 30 years living as a woman (the best that I could, at least), and being treated like a woman, socialized as one, etc. Does that make me less of a guy? No. That just means that I have a different perspective to offer (as do many of us).
As for using Transgender as an umbrella term, I'm completely happy with that, but am also respectful that not everyone feels the same way. For me, transgender people may be any of the following: transsexual, genderqueer, intersex, or even "other". But that doesn't mean that ALL transsexual, genderqueer, intersex or "other" people ARE transgender. They have a right to fit under that umbrella if they feel comfortable with the term, but there should be no expectation that everyone who "could" be seen as transgender "should" do so.
Personally, I identify as the following:
- Transgender
- Transsexual
- More simply: trans
- FTM
- MTM
- Male
- Man
- Guy
- Dude
- Person
- Queer
- A member of the LGBTQ community
- And most importantly: human.
Whether others like me choose to utilize some, all or none of those labels, and any other that feels right to them, doesn't change how I identify myself, our similarities are similarities whether we label ourselves the same way or not. Our differences are what makes us unique, again, independent of what we choose to call ourselves. And how I identify myself (especially in regards to using TS and TG) doesn't need to affect how any one else identifies themselves either.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on September 25, 2009, 02:46:59 PM
Ok, you Googled this, where exactly did you get this material from. I would like to view it and see the context of the material, what the author's stance is on Transgendered/ Transexuals, does the author have an agenda.
-------------------------
Is this where you got part of the information?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108235143AAS6JOo (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108235143AAS6JOo)
If so, I don't see any research showing where that "opinion" came from.
Sarah L.
The OP seems to gotten the information provided by "Purple Girl" and others on Yahoo Answers here:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108235143AAS6JOo (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071108235143AAS6JOo)
-={LR}=-
Here are the Community Definitions approved for Susans.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.msg337984.html#msg337984 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.msg337984.html#msg337984)
So lets take it from there.
Sarah L.
Quote from: sweetstars on September 25, 2009, 02:14:51 PM
Don't confuse being transsexual and the term transgender. You completely missed the point of the post. If you are transitioning to live full time as a woman, are on HRT, and identify as a woman...thats TRANSSEXUAL, NOT TRANSGENDER. Get what is being said here straight.
I don't believe that I missed anything. I do understand the difference between TG and TS. I don't believe that whoever wrote the quoted material does, however. I believe that the sections that I quoted are quite clear in their wrongness. For example:
"->-bleeped-<- is a mere choice"
Really? A "mere" choice?
"and transgenders are gender variant since they will never be completely women and refuse to behave as men........"
Again, TS or TG genetic girls are totally ignored with this statement.
"Transgenders are mostly men who want to keep their original parts, maybe practice fetish, and have the rights and privileges of being a woman, without doing anything to earn such."
Mostly men? Really? Fetish?
What parts of the above do you disagree with?
Per Site Terms and Definitions: (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.msg337984.html#msg337984)
QuoteTransgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s
QuoteTranssexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.
Hope that helps.
Janet
Quote from: Janet Lynn on September 25, 2009, 10:47:39 PM
Per Site Terms and Definitions: (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.msg337984.html#msg337984)
Hope that helps.
Janet
Thank you, Janet :)
When I do Trans 101 talks, I describe the definitions of transgender and transsexual by using the analogy of metals. Gold, zinc, steel, aluminium, etc. are all quite different in many ways with unique properties for each type but they are still gathered together under the word "metals." "Transgender" is a group name, a genus if you will, "transsexual," "drag king," "genderqueer," "androgyne," etc. are part of that genus.
Some people rebel against this definition because they don't like the other groups that fall under the term transgender. I think it's their right to avoid that designation if they wish. What I don't agree with, however, is the tendency of some people to disparage and use inflammatory rhetoric when talking about the other groups in order to elevate their native group in some sort of hierarchy or to blame the other groups for real and imagined prejudices held by the general public. Put the blame where it belongs, on the ignorance and fear that people hold onto when confronted by gender variant people.
"Transgender" is mainly a sociopolitical term. It's not about any one person in particular, it's about all of us. Does the term reflect each of us exactly? No, of course not. No general term can but there is value in the term for many purposes. Let's not fight those in our own community for selfish reasons related to individual identity values. We need to keep our eye on the larger enemy and defeat that first.
I've been thinking about this thread all night long. That tends to happen when I need to revisit something.
I posted in haste last night, without really thinking it through. And like they say in poker, a card laid is a card played.
I'm think that i'm going to have to reform my own idea of what TG means, using the board's definition of TG (and emlye's excellent description of it) as a guideline. There are many things about that definition that I really don't care for, but that is neither here nor there, not does it matter if I agree with the stated definition. It is what it is. I know that this topic has been beat to death in the past (I remember a few of those posts), and those definitions are there for a reason.
It was not my purpose or aim to stir up trouble on the board. If I did, I apologize. I'll try to do better next time :)
I am a transsexual. I was born female and I identify as male. However, I do consider myself transgender to some extent because I have characteristics of both and I know that gender binary does not work for everyone so I respect the people who identify as something other than male or female.
My old Webster's defines the prefix trans- in various ways: on the other side of, to the other side of, over, across, through, so as to change thoroughly, above and beyond.
Terms like sex, gender, male, and female can be very problematic. So please forgive me if I'm not using the terms in the same way you do. Or, indeed, the same way the experts do. Many use the term "male" to refer to sex organs only, but that makes it difficult to talk about brain sex or gender in meaningful ways.
When I was pre-transition, part of my body was female and the other part, my brain, had at least some male elements--in my gender identification, if nothing else. In this respect, I could truly call myself transgender because my own body was an amalgam that went above and beyond the sex/gender binary.
I like to say that I have always been a boy, always been male, but that's in reference to the gender identification in my brain. My body did not follow suit.
Now that I am sort of post-transition--I'm presenting as male, accepted as male, and legally male--I still have to think about hysto and possibly bottom surgery. This makes me different from a guy who has had both, and it makes me not quite analogous to an MTF who has had bottom surgery.
What we transsexuals all seem to have in common, pre-op and post-op and non-op and everyone in the middle, is that we were raised in a gender that is inconsistent with our identification, and that our brains and bodies still bear the indelible imprint of our originally having the wrong hormones and sexual equipment. This includes the influence of hormones on the brain.
Therefore, I feel that if we use the term "transgender" in the broadest sense, we can successfully apply it to any transsexual, even one who is completely post-op.
The problem here is that some people don't identify themselves that way, perhaps because we don't usually use "transgender" in such a broad sense. What if a person I would normally label as transgender says that she is manifestly NOT transgender? Once I find out that she feels this way, I would be bound to honor her wishes and try to remember not to identify her that way. However, I might privately still think of her that way even if I never say it out loud. Why? Because she has a trans history. So how, if the situation arises, should I accurately identify that trans history without using the word "transgender"? I certainly don't want to offend her or label her in a way that she finds offensive. And some post-ops object to the term "transsexual." I can see why they do, but how do I acknowledge their trans history without being offensive to them?
The umbrella term can be very useful. I'm well aware that not everyone likes it or uses it. But would they feel more comfortable with it if it were broader? Or will it always be problematic? What if we think of the prefix "trans-" as meaning "through" or "above and beyond"? Does that make the term "transgender" more palatable, or does it just muddy the water?
Do we need an umbrella term at all? (I personally like it, but that's just me...)
It is interesting to see that the people that reject the term transgender often take it to mean changing gender just as transexual means changing sex. But trans can also alludes to you being different from the expectated behaviour and gender identity of your birth sex. I think that is the line it takes as an umbrella term.
Could the vehament rejection of the term transgender come from not wanting to be associated with cross-dressers or 'fetishists' who seem to have a greater stigma attached to them within the 'trans' community? I think this has a lot to do with it, to be associated withe them somehow leads to the perception of being less valid.
I would be interested to know what someone like Matilda would have described themselves as being before SRS? They wern't transgender and they wern't transexual by their own definition as they had not changed sex at that stage.
I think Transgender is a useful term.
Interestingly I would be a transexual by the definition used on this site though I am not a man or a woman. I don't identify as such but I fit the bill.
Quote from: Matilda on September 27, 2009, 07:26:48 PM
As for what Arch said. Arch, I don't mind being called a woman born transsexual or a woman with a transsexual history, but that's just me. There are many people on here that do not want any association with the term transsexual either, and if this site professes support and respect towards self-identification as it seems it does, then I think that these people's wishes should be respected; otherwise, let's not complain when flame wars start or when other identities are challenged.
Yeah, I manifestly want to avoid disrespecting people and charging up flamethrowers. I want to fully understand where other folks are coming from; if I have to label them, I want to do it in a way that they accept and welcome. But when I talk about a lot of us as a group, I tend to use labels like "trans" to refer to us, all of us, even people like you, Matilda. Is that disrespectful or just annoying? I like "trans" because people can read it either way, as meaning transgender or transsexual. But for those who feel that they are no longer trans-anything, well, am I dissing them? That's why I suggested that broadening the definition of "transgender" might be a partial solution.
It's not a simple thing, navigating all of this.
If transexual refers to a brain body mismatch, then transgender can refer to a body brain missmatch too don't you think (as in your gender is trans to your body rather than your sex is trans to your gender(brain)? No worries about wanting to specify how you want to be identified, I think everyone has the right to self identify, just wondering at the logic of it.
I often hear people saying that you are not transexual untill you have had SRS. I assumed you were thinking the same thing so it seemed like no term could apply. Sorry about that Matilda.
I would just like to remind everyone that advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term is against the terms of service of this site. It might not be your personal belief but this is how we use it here. Probably best if we just stay away from this line of argument.
Cheers
Nicky
Here's an interesting essay on labels and identities from Dyssonance that might provide a fresh look at the subject:
http://www.dyssonance.com/?p=490 (http://www.dyssonance.com/?p=490)
I don't necessarily agree with all of her conclusions but I think she points out some pertinent facts that tend to get lost in these discussions.
hugs & smiles
Emelye
I sometimes feel the distinctions drawn between "sex" and "gender" are somewhat arbitrary. Surely, ones gender is a gestalt entity? An amalgam of the anatomical, biological, physiological and the mental (which is itself an emergent property of the biological, dualism not withstanding). I reject the idea that one can carve off one or more subsets of this amalgam to support an arbitrary distinction.
I believe this amalgam is precisely why there is a gender continuum and, therefore, I also reject the idea of a "pure" sex/gender binary. Any attempt to do so would force one to look at all the component aspects and unless someone has found a way to change their genetic structure, everyone remains "trans*" in some way from the gestalt perspective.
Mind you, I'm still not sure what the significance of this issue is anyway, beyond individual sensitivities. What a storm in a teacup! :)
When it comes to the Transgendered/Sexual areas of this forum; I post in both of them...I know some trans might not like it when I say this; But I just fuse both terms into one! So even though I will go through surgery, I use the title of both transgendered/sexual...
Shame on me! LOL!
Quote from: Matilda on September 27, 2009, 11:10:38 AM
Transgender is too broad a term, and in my case it's a designation that is confusing since it doesn't describe my experiences correctly. I'm a woman that was born with a transsexual condition (brain and body mismatch). I've already had that corrected through HRT and SRS, and today I'm simply a woman without any prefixes, modifiers or qualifiers attached to my womanhood.
Furthermore, the term Transgender seems to imply that I have "changed or transgressed genders", which is totally untrue and misleading. I've never "changed or transgressed genders". My gender has always been FEMALE. What I have changed is my physical sex NOT my gender.
Having said that, I will say this again: I'm not transgender, I never was, nor will I ever be.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss161%2Fmatilda23%2F061.gif&hash=8f2301193b0dc73bb2e3c64f938f2048ea1a0591)
I agree with much of this statement.
Also the person who stated that the problem with the term transgender has to do with the inclusiveness of CD, fetish folks, and Drag is dead on, that association RIGHTFULLY bothers alot of women who have transitioned. I don't want to be associated with folks who identify with thier assigned birth sex, no matter what clothing they decide to wear. To me there is a big prove it factor, either you have transition (or plan to transition) or don't bother with me. To me trans does not mean "transgress", rather it means transition. Transitioning ones sex is something one does, not who the person is. (Another thing, I detest the MtF/FtM terminology as well.
The umbrella term bothers me quite a bit, and the fact is I want no part of most of the others in the umbrella. To me transitioning sex is something one does, and there is an end point. Its also a medical condition, not some political identity. My medical condition has nothing to with thier desire to wear different clothing.
The very fact I was born intersex makes the terminology bother me even more. To me there needs to be a clean break in terms of terminology. It is to confusing. There is a significant number of women who transitioned who want no part of the term transgender. Its time to say that transsexual is seperate from transgender. That transitioning ones sex does not belong, nor it should belong in the same umbrella, in any way shape or form as somebody who crossdresses.
It is time to end the umbrella terminology.
I am NOT transgender.
I always thought of the term "transgender" to mean that your personal gender identity (in my case, A bloke who happens to be a bit on the feminine side) doesn't align with the gender role that society imposes on you (in my case, a woman, what with having a pair of breasts and a vagina and all).
The fact that I'm a transsexual simply means, to me, that I am unable to live with the incongruence between my physical sex and my brain sex. It's a completely different thing, yes, but I still fit under the transgender umbrella because my gender identity doesn't align with the gender role I'm given.
Perhaps, after transition, if society stops imposing on me a gender role that doesn't align with my gender identity, then I will stop considering myself transgender, same as some of you think of yourselves as women with a transsexual history, I would consider myself a man with a trans (no added nothing) history. (Though I'll probably always apply the word transsexual to me as a reminder that I've transcended the limitations I was born with and made my own life mine own.)
Either way, I think that treating a word like it's "the plague" only gives it added value.
Quote from: Matilda on September 27, 2009, 11:10:38 AM
Transgender is too broad a term, and in my case it's a designation that is confusing since it doesn't describe my experiences correctly. I'm a woman that was born with a transsexual condition (brain and body mismatch). I've already had that corrected through HRT and SRS, and today I'm simply a woman without any prefixes, modifiers or qualifiers attached to my womanhood.
Furthermore, the term Transgender seems to imply that I have "changed or transgressed genders", which is totally untrue and misleading. I've never "changed or transgressed genders". My gender has always been FEMALE. What I have changed is my physical sex NOT my gender.
Having said that, I will say this again: I'm not transgender, I never was, nor will I ever be.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss161%2Fmatilda23%2F061.gif&hash=8f2301193b0dc73bb2e3c64f938f2048ea1a0591)
Quote from: sweetstars on September 28, 2009, 07:55:45 AM
Also the person who stated that the problem with the term transgender has to do with the inclusiveness of CD, fetish folks, and Drag is dead on, that association RIGHTFULLY bothers alot of women who have transitioned. I don't want to be associated with folks who identify with thier assigned birth sex, no matter what clothing they decide to wear. To me there is a big prove it factor, either you have transition (or plan to transition) or don't bother with me. To me trans does not mean "transgress", rather it means transition. Transitioning ones sex is something one does, not who the person is. (Another thing, I detest the MtF/FtM terminology as well.
The umbrella term bothers me quite a bit, and the fact is I want no part of most of the others in the umbrella. To me transitioning sex is something one does, and there is an end point. Its also a medical condition, not some political identity. My medical condition has nothing to with thier desire to wear different clothing.
The very fact I was born intersex makes the terminology bother me even more. To me there needs to be a clean break in terms of terminology. It is to confusing. There is a significant number of women who transitioned who want no part of the term transgender. Its time to say that transsexual is seperate from transgender. That transitioning ones sex does not belong, nor it should belong in the same umbrella, in any way shape or form as somebody who crossdresses.
It is time to end the umbrella terminology.
I am NOT transgender.
couldn't agree more with both of you.
The name of the site we are posting on is Susan's Place "Transgender" Forums.
There are definitions we are supposed to live by posted by Susan.
Many people who now describe themselves as Transsexual first thought of themselves as crossdressers. When I was young I never heard of the term Transsexual. I have seen the evolution of many terms in my life, some I agree with others I don't.
I don't particularly like society placing limits on who I am. I am transitioned I have lived in societies eyes as a woman for many years (I have considered myself to be a woman most of my life, even when I was playing the part assigned to me by society).
Susan's is not an exclusive site, classifying ourselves as better than someone else does not help.
I am locking this thread and hope that no one other than an Administrator overrides this.
Sarah L.