Yes, I was retaining and was not sure to tell as this is very personal and heavily humiliating but I couldn't retain any longer and needed to thrash out to feel light. I was fired from work cos I decided to live full-time as transsexual. In the beginning the HR accepted I dress in girl to come to work, then I dunno some other people have filled HR's ears and should have said I am an embarassment to our prestigious company. They used other excuses as I was not working well etc which was utterly false to fire me, now I am jobless and on the streets, it's so difficult to find another decent job despite of my very high qualifications and I REALLY don't wanna backtrack and me male again, I've reached too far to backtrack now. I'm in a PITIABLE state right now and I don't even dare telling what I am doing exactly to get money right now, some sisters might know what...
HOW MANY AMONG YOU HAVE BEEN FIRED FROM WORK FOR HAVING DECIDED TO LIVE YOUR LIFE AS YOU WISHED?
Not sure where you live but the EEOC has rules against this: http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/harass/ssa.html (http://www.eeoc.gov/federal/harass/ssa.html)
There may also be state , city and county protections ( if you live in the US )
D :police:
See below:
SEXUAL ORIENTATION
Discrimination based on sexual orientation is directed at persons who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender, who are perceived to be gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender or who associate with persons who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. This may take the form of harassment or treatment that is different than that afforded similarly situated employees or applicants.
To address sexual orientation discrimination, employees may contact an equal employment opportunity (EEO) counselor. Employees' right to address sexual orientation discrimination derives from Agency policy, not from Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) regulations which govern other types of discrimination complaints processing. If counseling does not lead to a resolution, complainants will be told in writing of their right to file a formal complaint and given the procedure for doing so. Following an EEO investigation, the
Associate Commissioner for Civil Rights and Equal Opportunity makes the final Agency decision on the complaint. Unlike complaints based on other forms of discrimination, sexual orientation complainants do not have appeal rights to EEOC.
I'm pretty sure the OP lives outside the US.
I went fulltime at work to and was laid off after six months. They said it was due to the economy and lack of sales. I was the most knowledgeable employee they had in my dept. What it really boiled down to was discomfort from some of the other employees with certain religious backgrounds and prejuduces.
I have been unemployed since January and haven't been able to find employment. I too may soon be homeless with nowhere to go in the dead of winter to boot.
Phyically I could never de-transiton as I have passed the point of no return. Besides I would ever detransiton for any reason!
I feel your pain and wish you the best of luck!
BIG HUGS
~Raises her hand.~ I just was fired one day before my one year anniversary of full time. Their reason? Poor customer service. The real reason: I am TS. I can not prove it, but I know it.
And now I am waiting on UI for Oregon.
Janet
Well, this is something too many of us learn the hard way. And too few of us prepare for well.
I believed my employer (actually it was the mother company who flew in three top HR people, including #1, to meet with me and encourage me to come out) when they said that my job and pay would not be affected and that I would never be asked to return to the field. I had a witness then but failed to get anything in writing or have legal counsel there on my behalf. I felt that would have sent the message they can't be trusted. I should have done it anyway.
What I learned is anyone who thinks their job is secure because times have changed or there are anti-discrimination laws on the books is only fooling themselves. You HAVE to cover your butt and document EVERYTHING!!!! And even then there's no guarantee you will keep your job. When your employer knows the laws and doesn't want you around anymore, that just makes them more careful about how they are going to get rid of you.
Julie
Shelina,
i am really sorry about what happened to you. one never know how life go forward. Maybe loosing this job is what will open new better opportunity for you?
i know you are far from being in a mood to hear stories but thought i'll share this one:
nce there was an old man that owned a very beautiful white horse.
once the horse disappeared, and every body in the village said: that is bad news
the old wise man: you never know how can you tell?
a few days later the white horse is back but brought with it a group of very beautiful white horses.
everybody: finally it was a good thing.
wise old man: i don't know
so the son of the old guy spend all his time playing with the horses and riding it, until one day he had an accident fall off the horse and broke his legs.
everybody: sorry to hear about your son, that is really sad what happened to him.
wise old man: how can you tell?
later a war took place and all young men had to participate in the war and there was a lot of dead.
everybody: you were right, yes your son is handicapped and can not walk again but he is still alive. it was not that bad what happened to him.
wise old man: you can not tell........
Sorry to hear you lost your job :( I haven't had a job in almost a year, but I applied for one yesterday that looks promising, and I plan to begin HRT within the month. Hopefully I get the job and am able to keep for a good while because I really do need money right now.
I know how hard it is to find work right now, especially while in transition it can be harder. But stay positive, I find when you think you've hit rock bottom there is no place to go but up, and at some point something will go right. Life is full of nasty turns but there are also the nice things that happen to us and if we stay positive the good can outweigh the bad.
-Heather
I've been fired twice for this same grievous offense. Regretfully yes, there are many others. In the US if you work for the gov. as a ts/tg, then the gov. allows you some rights. Other than that, only a few states allow ts/tg to have rights. I've been told by many people that this is how it is & to just accept it. This has really pissed me off. But the absolute worst is when other ts/tg tell me this, I just don't understand these people.
Post Merge: October 01, 2009, 08:06:22 PM
It's a risk we all take in coming out on the job. And even if you do everything 'right' by the powers that be, it's no guarantee. I have back up plans in place. I hope I don't need them.
Jay
Quote from: Julie Marie on October 01, 2009, 02:11:53 PM
When your employer knows the laws and doesn't want you around anymore, that just makes them more careful about how they are going to get rid of you.
Yes, this.
I'm not sure where Shelina lives, but here in the US its well known among union organizers, and sympathizers, that if an employer wants to fire someone, they can always find "legitimate" reason(s). Its only the most clumsy employer which runs afoul of the law.
I admit, I am unfamiliar with workplace protections for transsexuals, but I would be surprised if the situation is any different for us.
Shelina, I am very sorry this has happened to you. It brings a loss of income and stability at a time in life when you need it more than ever. I think it would be very hard to go back to living as a guy, even if just for work. But only you can know what is right for you.
~Lynn~
A professor told me a few weeks ago that it is the power that determines whether you maintain a job or not. Only the weak talk and complain about the law and rules. The power may mean your money, hierarchic position, or physical power. Bush administration invaded Iraq based on all later-falsified grounds. Now he is criticized just because of the power shift to Barack Obama.
Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.
--Mao Tse-Tung
You need the power to crossdress without being fired.
Barbie~~
Quote from: barbie on October 04, 2009, 11:15:11 AM
A professor told me a few weeks ago that it is the power that determines whether you maintain a job or not. Only the weak talk and complain about the law and rules. The power may mean your money, hierarchic position, or physical power.
Barbie~~
Not sure how you are going to wrest that power from your employer. Any specific suggestions?
Julie
Quote from: Julie Marie on October 05, 2009, 02:10:34 PM
Not sure how you are going to wrest that power from your employer. Any specific suggestions?
Julie
A secret picture of him passionately kissing a hippopotamus? ;D
Quote from: Julie Marie on October 05, 2009, 02:10:34 PM
Not sure how you are going to wrest that power from your employer. Any specific suggestions?
Julie
I did not say that, but that is what I heard from the professor.
I guess the power can be shared with many people or a group. History says that people have been under collective power systems.
I can say that you need to keep strong social relationship and friendship to wrest the power from the empoloyer :).
Barbie~~
Quote from: barbie on October 07, 2009, 06:45:00 AM
I did not say that, but that is what I heard from the professor.
I guess the power can be shared with many people or a group. History says that people have been under collective power systems.
I can say that you need to keep strong social relationship and friendship to wrest the power from the empoloyer :).
Barbie~~
The original concept, I guess, being a "union" (albeit probably not with trans rights in mind back in those days) :)
I'm 40 plus and I have never discussed transsexual/transgender in my place of work. No one knows about me, that's how I have always been in my profession.
Unless a person is very obvious in "looks", I believe it's an area to keep out of the workplace.
heard about the hsbc senior exec in hong kong who got fired for being a transexual? what does that speak about 'power'? that someone had a bigger stick?
i think the more realistic way for most ts here is to transition on the job and when you are passable and got your name changed GO FIND A NEW JOB! for most people pls don't count on your coworkers *really* being cool about it, they aren't! and what is it about ts here that are dying to 'come out' and confess to everyone they knew that they are 'transitioning'...and attract the stigma? so long as you don't walk around in a skirt blatently denying the obvious actually works -- there's no way anyone can prove that you are a transexual unless they have your medical records.
so my advice: deny everything while transitioning, then do your name change, wipe the slate clean and go somewhere else on your female identity. a lot more elegant than the mess you create by can't helping coming out...
There are a lot of things both good and bad about trade unionism (I'm not going to speak to unions for things like civil servants or police) but one of the best things is that its not just you against some huge corporation, and they just can't dismiss you with a wave of their hand, you have other people on your side, and they have a process and a procedure they have to follow. It can't be done on mere whim.
That being said, any manager worth their salary knows how to document this stuff.
And that being said even if you would lose job A, the union can have you at job B the next day.
And I think what Barbie says about power is true. Its easy to pick on people who you know will not fight back, or who will react by ineffective means.
For all the stuff about 'love conquers all' real change comes only under threat. Power can only be confronted with power.
I think it's very tempting to want to go full time before one is ready for it in the eyes of others. Which begs the question do you do what you feel like or do you consider what other people think even if what they think is wrong? To keep the peace? I believe the biggest problem people have with TG folk is the guy in a dress issue they can't process it, but if you are a girl in a suit then most people won't bat an eye lid.
I went androgynous for as long as I could, I even binded for awhile. Maybe I care too much what other people think, but I know how people think, and even though I disagree with them and think they complete selfish ignorance jerks I'm never going to change that. Only time will over a few more decades.
I do think it was wrong for your HR manager to give you the green light to then turn around and not even give you the opinion to go back to a male suit to keep the peace. That is wrong and you should fight that as you did nothing wrong.
I'd say the safest time to go fulltime at work is when you over hear people saying "why is that girl wearing a suit?".
I basically transioned at work years ago. I worked for an insurance Co, had commenced hormones and my hair was getting far too long for an office job.
I had to meet with HR etc and attempted to explain, was not easy. They suggested I take 2 weeks leave and come back as full female. That I did and so my journey began. I encountered a few problems from males in my department, but mainly ignored them. When I felt I had enough experience, I moved on to another company.
muffin you are very wise...... :)
This is what I was worried about when I transitioned and came out back in the mid 80's, thankfully though I was kept on. Although the company did appear to want to get rid of me by deliberately keeping my salary very low. Once I'd had all my ops I left that company and even moved to a different country where my past is completely unknown. This is the only way to avoid predjudice and transphobia.
I'm really sorry the OP lost her job and hope something comes along
Happily I transitioned more or less before my career began so that possibility never really existed for me. But looking through the modern day requirements that some have to conform to I am not surprised that as Muffin say's:
Quote from: Muffin on January 08, 2010, 08:06:16 PM
I think it's very tempting to want to go full time before one is ready for it in the eyes of others.
Because of course, as I understand it, many of you are forced into doing precisely that by your doctors! Unless I am wrong, in some places, people end up doing a one year RLE
before they can even start on hormones. Which to me seems barbaric, imbecilic and utterly wrong.
It's as if the medical people at places like CAMH are deliberately setting people up for failure. In which case I personally think they would deserve to be sued for malpractice. I don't understand why so many put up with these archaic rules. It's high time we forced this to taken out of the DSM and we got a decent set of medical treatment protocols.
Wow, do I ever feel your pain.
I haven't changed but have a feminine personality which, long ago, I decided, was who I am.
I've lost lots of jobs. Always the claims are, ecomony, poor performance, something like that. I've had men take me aside and try it on. After refusing, I'm out.
I was an RN for 10 years. Twice, employers loaded me up with a succession of allegations, most of which were serious enough, on their own, to warrent instant dismissal anyway, but that never actually happened. And surprisingly enough, after eventually leaving both jobs, I was given references!!!!!
About 20 years ago I retrained and have been doing temp work. It has paid the bills. I work to live.
Quote from: milktea on January 08, 2010, 10:14:38 AM
heard about the hsbc senior exec in hong kong who got fired for being a transexual? what does that speak about 'power'? that someone had a bigger stick?
I meant it in the sense of Nietzchian power. The following link would be helpful
Quote
Crime belongs to the concept "revolt against the social order." One does not "punish" a rebel; one suppresses him. A rebel can be a miserable and contemptible man; but there is nothing contemptible in a revolt as such--and to be a rebel in view of contemporary society does not in itself lower the value of a man. There are even cases in which one might have to honor a rebel, because he finds something in our society against which war ought to be waged--he awakens us from our slumber.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/travis_denneson/power.html (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/travis_denneson/power.html)
I gave up struggling for the power for a while ;)
Barbie~~
In an ultimate sense, becoming a lawyer would empower you as a TS. Do we have any notable lawyers in our communities?
Milktea made the suggestion to move to a new employment after comming out. The problem with that is you have to tell your new potential employer where you worked before. Then under what name you were using. So then you have to explain the name change and why. So you are outing again. Hence no job. This won't be true in all cases I am sure. But how do you prove you were discriminated against for not getting the job?
Quote from: Dylen on February 02, 2010, 12:06:23 AM
The problem with that is you have to tell your new potential employer where you worked before.
Yes, you can state where you've worked but you don't need to put them down as a reference. You can get other people who are supportive of your transition to be your references... might it be other previous employers, mentors, or volunteer organizations. Does this make sense?
Wrongful termination (suing over getting fired) is very, very hard to prove unless you were working for total idiots. Suing for not getting a job is all but impossible in this economy, or any economy really. All they are going to say, all they will say, what they are trained to say (because I've even had to said it on occasion) is: I'm sorry, but we found someone who was a closer match for that position. And that's if they say anything more than: I'm sorry, we've already filled that position.
If you are getting fired, there might be discrimination, but the hiring process itself is discrimination by its very nature in that you are looking for a certain person from the get go. And when you have a situation like the current one, in which people with decades of skills and experience are applying for jobs 100, 200 at a time, its real hard to say that you were somehow treated more unfairly then the other 198 people who also did not get the job.
Quote from: tekla on January 08, 2010, 10:35:35 AMAnd I think what Barbie says about power is true. Its easy to pick on people who you know will not fight back, or who will react by ineffective means.
For all the stuff about 'love conquers all' real change comes only under threat. Power can only be confronted with power.
True, true, true, true. If you have a strong stance and are assertive/aggressive even the biggest douche bags will try to not cross your path- no matter their position. The workforce is all about strength, no matter where you are on the totem pole.
Unfortunately there are many people who believe there is something wrong with us and cannot accept that we actually have a medical condition and we are not bad people. We can work for one of the the many transgender friendly companies or wait until everything is changed (SS, Birth certificate diplomas, etc) and look for a job as a woman. Many Transgendered people don't have these choices so we need to fight for our rights. The good news is many big companies (like Boeing and Microsoft for example) do accept us and as we continue the fight things will get better. I knew many years ago about my severe GID but when I was young no one was accepting; we have made some progress but we have a long way to go. If things had been the way they are now I would be 30 years post op instead of pre op looking forward to surgery. I do think it is important to work in a supportive enviornment; hopefully you will find one.
Pam
Before taking any step, I should comprehend my position in the environment of my workplace and also the outreach. The horizon I walk toward is not well known, and it could be hostile or friendly.
Every step is risky. Thus I should also evaluate what I have and do not have. Who can help or support me if some skirmishes occurs? I can face it or others can intervene instead of me. Which would be better?
This is to evaluate how much power I have in confronting the uncertain horizon.
Tomorrow I will wear a pair of ankle boots under bootcut jeans. They are 2-3 inch heels, and just delivered. It will be a small but thrilling and exciting step. Enjoy it.
Barbie~~
I'm so sorry :(
It's ->-bleeped-<-ty and ridiculous that these things happen. Fortunately attitudes are changing, but it's not happening fast enough. Best of luck finding another job hon.
Quote from: Jonni on October 01, 2009, 12:34:56 PM
I went fulltime at work to and was laid off after six months. They said it was due to the economy and lack of sales. I was the most knowledgeable employee they had in my dept. What it really boiled down to was discomfort from some of the other employees with certain religious backgrounds and prejuduces.
I have been unemployed since January and haven't been able to find employment. I too may soon be homeless with nowhere to go in the dead of winter to boot.
Phyically I could never de-transiton as I have passed the point of no return. Besides I would ever detransiton for any reason!
I feel your pain and wish you the best of luck!
BIG HUGS
Jonni, people's discomfort is the number one reason why transsexuals are fired form their jobs and not that they are unable to do their work. Gets back to the 'you're not one of us' crap.
Gennee
Quote from: Jonni on October 01, 2009, 12:34:56 PM
I went fulltime at work to and was laid off after six months. They said it was due to the economy and lack of sales. I was the most knowledgeable employee they had in my dept. What it really boiled down to was discomfort from some of the other employees with certain religious backgrounds and prejuduces.
I have been unemployed since January and haven't been able to find employment. I too may soon be homeless with nowhere to go in the dead of winter to boot.
Phyically I could never de-transiton as I have passed the point of no return. Besides I would ever detransiton for any reason!
I feel your pain and wish you the best of luck!
BIG HUGS
I would think for survival purposes it might be better not to disclose information relating to your birth gender when seeking new employment?
I have an additional problem at work. We are required to change into our uniforms at work. If I came out then would I be allowed to use the female lockeroom for changing. Not unless I had GRS first. But then as one presenting as female (with male plumbing)- would I be required to use the male lockeroom. There is a poster in the lunchroom that says one cannot be discriminated against for gender. I have no doubt that the company would find a way to fire me when it comes up. I just have to be ready for it.
I am lucky not to be fired.I work at a company as head person of Human resources for a company.I knew where I work right after I started my transiton that an anti discrimination policy was put in place including GLBT people 3 years ago and still is for life.My boss Elena and my co workers say I still do my job although I am now a woman now.
you are very pretty! i think there was no need to tell them you were a guy because if you look like your avatar picture you look like a GG, BUT
yeah they have no right to do that. in a court of law they will fall flat. i bet you could milk 10 million from them, 10 million at least. if worse comes to worse you could be a guest star on oprah.
I can add a story or two to this thread also.
I had been working at a Dry Cleaners in Texas back in the 90's. I was pretty much knowing what direction I wanted to move in and my family was aware I liked males. I wore my hair in a bob and wore eyebrow pencil. I also had a very feminine figure already so I wore jeans that accentuated my body. Anyway things pretty much went without any incident for a month or so. One day the CEO of the company was taking a tour of some of the stores in the area. He saw me and did not say anything to me. Next thing I know my manager tells me I cannot work there until I get a more masculine haircut. According to her the CEO had requested it after she had told him I was a male.
I did not know what to do! I was living in Texas and home is not just over the next town! I had a friend who told me just to cut my hair as I needed the money bad. I cut my hair and hung my head in shame. I then went back to the dry cleaners and got my job back. I was kinda seeing a guy at the time and he was very upset. He stayed with me but supported me when I decided to quit that job.
Needless to say I was very young back then and did not know ->-bleeped-<- about my rights and just wanted to get my hair back to the length it had been. I also needed rent money so I eventually got another job about three weeks later.
That was a learning experience. Things happen for a reason. You can be assured that they were probably already looking for any reason to let you go anyway! This "transition-on-the-job" you were doing was just a convenient time for them to do it. My advice is to move on and find a job that is better for you. I don't know what skills you have but if you got it- work those skills like you never have before! I really wish you the best and will send positive thoughts you way.
Keep your head up :)
I'd like to say that they legally have no right to enforce a certain hair code, but I actually have no idea on the matter. However, if another employee has long hair, that means that it is discrimination.
If every employee has short hair, then that might not work.