From pics I see, it looks to me like the nipples are being placed higher than on bio-guys who have any chest development, and by that I mean muscle. Look at the guys on bodybuilding boards or just at the gym, the nipples are quite low.
I don't want weird looking pecs, man!
Any input on this?
I have thought that a few times in pictures I've seen. But they dont always look bad. I'm sure its something you could discuss with you doctor. Surgery is different for everyone so most docs will happily cooperate with simple requests.
For my part, I'll take photos of both post-op-chests and male-born-chests to my doc when I do go and I will press for the most "natural" looking result possible.
"do this, not that" sort of stuff.
I'm the customer, I should get what "I" ask for...
*shrug*
Miniar that's exactly what I may do, someday, when I have the money.
I think it also depends on when you're getting your surgery. I see alot of guys get it as soon as they get on T, but the best results I've seen is when guys have been on T for a year or longer. I think it's very important to be on T for awhile and work out. Contour some muscle so that the surgeon isn't working blindly. It can be difficult to get the placement right if you're not sure how things are gonna line up after more muscle development.
Very good point.
If you've chosen a good surgeon, he (or she) will tailor the results to what's best for your body. I agonized over nipples for some time. In the end, I just told him to use his best judgment and I am very happy with the result.
By all means discuss your concerns about placement with your surgeon, but also remember that he or she has likely been sculpting human flesh for years and knows what he's doing. The first step of course is not to choose someone whose results you don't like.
Good thinking there.
it seems a lot of the time nipples are way too high and too close together. it kindof pisses me off that brownstein is so "popular" and he is one of the most guilty of this IMO.
Quote from: Kvall on October 07, 2009, 05:28:16 AM
Back in 2006 I was at a lecture given by Brownstein and he stated that it is much more difficult for a surgeon to get correct nipple placement with a keyhole or peri-areolar mastectomy than with double incision.
That said, this seems to contradict many of the post-op photos I've seen, in which people who had peri/keyhole usually had better placement, compared to people who had DI who often had high up nipples.
Just from photos, higher up nipples seems to also be more of an issue for bigger guys.
maybe brownstein thinks that because he puts nipples too high and thinks that the peri/keyhole people have nipples too low.
the only surgeon who i have found to (consistently) place nipples in a good position (lower outer edge of pec) was Garrmone in FL. ive seen some other good ones by some surgeons outside of the US.
Quote from: Kvall on October 07, 2009, 05:28:16 AM
Back in 2006 I was at a lecture given by Brownstein and he stated that it is much more difficult for a surgeon to get correct nipple placement with a keyhole or peri-areolar mastectomy than with double incision.
That said, this seems to contradict many of the post-op photos I've seen, in which people who had peri/keyhole usually had better placement, compared to people who had DI who often had high up nipples.
Just from photos, higher up nipples seems to also be more of an issue for bigger guys.
The nipples aren't moved during peri/keyhole (correct me if I'm wrong), so placement would depend on where the guy's nipples were in the first place.
Quote from: Nero on October 07, 2009, 05:12:45 PM
The nipples aren't moved during peri/keyhole (correct me if I'm wrong), so placement would depend on where the guy's nipples were in the first place.
they can be adjusted some. but not really "moved". a lot of times, skin is removed by cutting around the nipple, then cutting a bigger hole (removing a 'skin doughnut') then sewing the nipple back into the skin. the skin pucker around the nipple kind of like on a drawstring bag.
by making the skin doughnut thicker on one side and thinner (or non existent) on another, the nipple can be "moved" (up, down, or to a side) a little when sewn back on.
Josh I actually like the placement on yours. Now build up that chest, get some good delt and lat development to bring out the V shape and get some plain old upper body mass, and you will REALLY REALLY look like, hunky chick-magnet guyville.
The "girl pooch" is so hard to get rid of, I had no pooch until I was past 30, always hard as a board from my chest right on down to the fun place, now I've got all this extra hangin' around like an auxiliary gas tank, that trims down when I eat less. I may have to just put in the miles (running) to really trim that down though.
Loren Cameron is kinda my hero.
haha yea, i think i got good nipple and scar placement. i need to trim down a little, but im not really too worried about getting buff. im mostly gay and i have a BF anyway, im not too worried about strutting like a peacock. :P
everybody's chest's differernt. I went 2 Brownstein & my nipples are fine but Ive seen some messed up ones too done by another doc.
this is what Brownstein goes by
http://www.brownsteinmd.com/nippleareolagraft.html (http://www.brownsteinmd.com/nippleareolagraft.html)
some results http://www.brownsteinmd.com/results.html (http://www.brownsteinmd.com/results.html)
they look cool 2 me 8) 8) 8)
Yeah lookin pretty good, I'd say my situation is about like Chest #16, and I just measured, my aureolas are nickel size exactly (wow that nickel was cold!) the nipples themselves are a bit big though.
I'd say chest eight on those pics is the best for nipple placement.. but that guy does have some decent muscle mass going on too.
Quote from: Tay on October 08, 2009, 08:05:32 AM
I'd say chest eight on those pics is the best for nipple placement.. but that guy does have some decent muscle mass going on too.
They're actually out of alignment with the abs there. The nipples should be in alignment to where the outer edge of the abs begin, so if you drew a line downward, they'd match up.
There are more examples of nipple placement on transbucket also.
Jay
Cool - I didn't know about that site. Transster is gone so this is nice to hear about.
Quote from: Chris on October 08, 2009, 12:11:30 AM
everybody's chest's differernt. I went 2 Brownstein & my nipples are fine but Ive seen some messed up ones too done by another doc.
this is what Brownstein goes by
http://www.brownsteinmd.com/nippleareolagraft.html (http://www.brownsteinmd.com/nippleareolagraft.html)
some results http://www.brownsteinmd.com/results.html (http://www.brownsteinmd.com/results.html)
they look cool 2 me 8) 8) 8)
IMO those links didnt help brownsteins case much. he mentions "It is important, however, to avoid placing the areolar grafts too central. This gives a very unnatural appearance to the chest and stands out considerably." but seems to place them there about 1/3 of the time anyway. about 1/3 of the others seem to be placed ON (considerably too high and close to the center) the pec, not the lower outer edge.
That's my worry, I don't wanna look weird.
Quote from: Alex_C on October 09, 2009, 11:04:08 PM
That's my worry, I don't wanna look weird.
just pick your surgeon wisely to maximize the chance that you'll end up with the chest that you want.
Bingo.
did you look at the pics though? cause seriously some of them are like 3 inches above the PEC line. not the scars.
Quote from: Kvall on October 11, 2009, 07:28:25 AM
Yeah I know, some of them are too high. And a lot are too close together as well. Just pointing out that some look too high at first glance but then turn out to be about right.
There's only one that's too close together and that's chest 10 and it's not too bad.
Here, guys, have some anatomy refs.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi33.tinypic.com%2F2ik2rz4.jpg&hash=15d0c4a66d32b7b409aa7a3e262899f8ac36e231)
Thanks for the link Jay!
I personally never considered the fact that my nipples might have been placed too high. It never crossed my mind. I haven't seen any pictures really either of nipples being placed to high either.
Jay
It depends on surgeons tecnique as well as I would say the shape of your chest. I'm guessing/hoping guys with smaller frames it would be an easy task to place the nipples in a good position.
Brownstein wrote "It is important, however, to avoid placing the areolar grafts too central. This gives a very unnatural appearance to the chest and stands out considerably." Well his disciple Dr Crane did exactly that to me. He had a perfectly brand new canvas to work on, he messed it up and I have to wear it. He said he will fix it no charge but I don't have the money for the travel, accommodation and surgery center to do it. I saved up until I was 60 years old and opened my IRA to do this and now the money is gone. Also, again, it was a beautiful brand new canvas and now it's been tampered with and there will be more scars. I'm screwed. (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=208530912637537&set=t.100004418881272&type=3&theater)
I tried inserting a photo but it didn't work. I also used insertion of a web site with the photo on it and it didn't work. Any help?
Follow the format shown here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.0.html
Quick fix
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=208530912637537&set=t.100004418881272&type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=208530912637537&set=t.100004418881272&type=3&theater)
It's always a good thing to remember that peoples bodies come in all shapes and sizes. I've seen many men who have nipples that look very low but thats just the way their chest is shaped.
Pictures of bodybuilders aren't good reference btw. These are men that have spent years toning their physiques to perfection not average looking men with average pecs.
I went to Dr. Christine Mcginn in the Philly area, and I have to say that everything to do with my top surgery is perfect. My room mate (bio male) is jealous of my chest because it looks so good. He says my scars only make me look like I've got bigger muscles. Nipple placement is on point, and unclockable. If you were standing 5' or more away you'd never know I even had surgery. Closer up you'd notice the scars, but definitely wouldn't imagine that the nips hadn't been in their current location since birth.
I highly recommend her (dr. mcginn). She's really great, and her results (at least mine) are amazing. I also love that she, herself, is trans. Makes the whole thing more comfortable.
Quote from: Osiris on October 05, 2009, 04:42:55 PM
I think it also depends on when you're getting your surgery. I see alot of guys get it as soon as they get on T, but the best results I've seen is when guys have been on T for a year or longer. I think it's very important to be on T for awhile and work out. Contour some muscle so that the surgeon isn't working blindly. It can be difficult to get the placement right if you're not sure how things are gonna line up after more muscle development.
False
100% false.
I had my surgery about 8 months before staring T (I'd rather have been a girl without boobs then a guy with boobs. no shame to people who do it the other way around... just was my preference), and as I have mentioned I have pretty much perfect results.
I also should note that I was super skinny at that time. Perhaps it helped my situation. I can imagine there may be more adjustment in fat distribution for people who have more fat. so maybe its just 80% false and not 100% false... but still I don't want people to have the impression that they have to wait around for top surgery until they start T. Some people are much better served getting surgery first.
Quote from: GnomeKid on March 10, 2014, 10:45:00 AM
(I'd rather have been a girl without boobs then a guy with boobs.
Totally on the same wavelength here.
Quote from: GnomeKid on March 10, 2014, 10:45:00 AM
False
100% false.
I had my surgery about 8 months before staring T (I'd rather have been a girl without boobs then a guy with boobs. no shame to people who do it the other way around... just was my preference), and as I have mentioned I have pretty much perfect results.
I also should note that I was super skinny at that time. Perhaps it helped my situation. I can imagine there may be more adjustment in fat distribution for people who have more fat. so maybe its just 80% false and not 100% false... but still I don't want people to have the impression that they have to wait around for top surgery until they start T. Some people are much better served getting surgery first.
Agree, I got my top surgery a bit before starting T, and got great results. (In my opinion :o) I'm also pretty skinny though, maybe that has something to do with it hah. But even my family doctor who saw my chest after said, "Wow, that's really good." talking about the nipple placement.
My partner is booked in for top surgery at the end of summer. We seen the surgeon last week to discuss it, and because my partner wants to keep his nipples functional, the surgeon has to keep a good straight blood supply. Because my partners chest is so big (we're talking GGs), that means his nipples are going to end up pretty high since he wants the incision marks under his chest rather than across. My friend who transitioned about 20 years ago has good nipple placement though since he got a graft instead.
the nipples are placed on downward edge of the pec muscle if you have no pecs it is very high. but thats not where bio guys with no pecs nipples are theirs are below that. my advice is build pecs now because nipple placement is generally very good it you have good pectoral muscles before surgery.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockwired.com%2Fryancassata.jpg&hash=ad86250b789902b1780f096319d44dc84ac30b84)
too high and inside. not atomically correct.
Quote from: anibioman on March 11, 2014, 01:49:05 PM
the nipples are placed on downward edge of the pec muscle if you have no pecs it is very high. but thats not where bio guys with no pecs nipples are theirs are below that. my advice is build pecs now because nipple placement is generally very good it you have good pectoral muscles before surgery.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rockwired.com%2Fryancassata.jpg&hash=ad86250b789902b1780f096319d44dc84ac30b84)
too high and inside. not atomically correct.
hmm they could be
maybe a bit too high, but I wouldn't say they're too central anything too much wider would look... well odd. If this dude never goes on to build up pecs I think he's got pretty decent results (and he cold even if he did build up, but I guess its hard to say without seeing it). If you blur your eyes to erase the scars I can totally see a young boy looking exactly like that.
I'm not so sure we should be criticising people's top surgery results publicly. I'm sure its not what you're trying to do, but I'm fearful of people not wanting to share their top surgery results for a similar reason to people not sharing lower surgery results. Its not entirely the same, because genitals are more private, but its similar because people are fearful of their penises being referred to very unfavourably, even though they're often not fully healed when shared.
I'm tired, probably overreacting and not making much sense, but thought I'd mention it. Perhaps crop the face out next time?
Quote from: lxndr on March 11, 2014, 06:38:22 PM
I'm not so sure we should be criticising people's top surgery results publicly. I'm sure its not what you're trying to do, but I'm fearful of people not wanting to share their top surgery results for a similar reason to people not sharing lower surgery results. Its not entirely the same, because genitals are more private, but its similar because people are fearful of their penises being referred to very unfavourably, even though they're often not fully healed when shared.
I'm tired, probably overreacting and not making much sense, but thought I'd mention it. Perhaps crop the face out next time?
I agree with this, especially since the picture in question definitely wasn't an image of the poster's chest. (and now I kind of feel bad even commenting on it... despite the fact I think the results look good)
Then gain I'm pretty tired too =p
I'm pretty sure that even though Ryan is a public figure, I think the posting of his picture to "dissect him" is kind of inappropriate. If you want to post your own picture and discuss it that's another thing (or discuss the "ideal"-- though remember it is the ideal, and very few people are actually ideal.)
--Jay
Quote from: daynejule on March 10, 2014, 03:29:50 AM
I tried inserting a photo but it didn't work. I also used insertion of a web site with the photo on it and it didn't work. Any help?
You need fifteen posts before you can load a picture. So keep coming back.
Ways to get easy posts: congratulate guys who are starting T , getting top surgery, or go in some of the culture section and comment on food, movies, etc.
Hi there daynejule! I believe I know you.
--Jay
I did not intend to offend people by posting a picture and criticizing results. I believe this picture is so common that cropping the face would be pointless. Also he made this picture public. I think critiquing surgical results is important. Bad results are always going to be someones bad result. I think there are positives and negatives to Ryan's results. My nipples are on the bottom edge of my pecs. My pecs are tiny as hell.
Also pec shape dictates ideal nipple placement. Ryan's chest is shaped like the guy shown below. I don't think Ryan looks bad. I believe it would look better If his nipples where placed similarly to this guys.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F4a%2F4f%2F07%2F4a4f073550f264f485eaf770c2455986.jpg&hash=410eb28d7e9a50ed0cab3225d3106f2d3ce6b558)
I actually think that since we have dysphoria that we kind of focus on little stuff like exact position of nipples. Sometimes it isn't ideal but for the most part it's something to focus on that other people may not see at all.
--Jay