While you're standing right next to them... Sure they're queer and aren't bigoted. This person in question is straight though...
Why is it so hard for people to understand why you are quiet and miserable after an ok day, when they bring it up. Jokes and fine, and people are bound to be hit by them in some way, even in the same room... But when they refer to the "->-bleeped-<- hookers" next door in the hotel that are infamous in the area as a joke, while you're sitting right there, it hurts... And I don't understand how they can't have the foresight to not say it.
This is going to sound a little harsh, but you either need to tell them to not use the word around you and that you seriously mean it, or how good are they as friends? But if you just let them say it and then feel bad about it but do nothing, it only makes it harder to tell them to stop in the future.
Quote from: Ketsy on October 25, 2009, 12:51:23 AM
This is going to sound a little harsh, but you either need to tell them to not use the word around you and that you seriously mean it, or how good are they as friends? But if you just let them say it and then feel bad about it but do nothing, it only makes it harder to tell them to stop in the future.
I know... I just dont wanna be the killjoy...
I'm afraid they'll just perceive me as "emo", or unable to take a joke...
Quote from: Kara-Xen on October 25, 2009, 12:35:38 AM
While you're standing right next to them... Sure they're queer and aren't bigoted. This person in question is straight though...
Why is it so hard for people to understand why you are quiet and miserable after an ok day, when they bring it up. Jokes and fine, and people are bound to be hit by them in some way, even in the same room... But when they refer to the "->-bleeped-<- hookers" next door in the hotel that are infamous in the area as a joke, while you're sitting right there, it hurts... And I don't understand how they can't have the foresight to not say it.
Well yes, it can be sensitive term and can often be used as a pejorative - but you say they're not bigoted and they used the term in a joking reference to hookers next door, so the context comes over as only mildly insensitive to me.
That's not to say they shouldn't have taken account of the fact that you're right there with them but perhaps your nerves are just a little too raw on the day in question?
Quote from: finewine on October 25, 2009, 01:17:48 AM
Well yes, it can be sensitive term and can often be used as a pejorative - but you say they're not bigoted and they used the term in a joking reference to hookers next door, so the context comes over as only mildly insensitive to me.
That's not to say they shouldn't have taken account of the fact that you're right there with them but perhaps your nerves are just a little too raw on the day in question?
I don't wanna be called that! I feel like I need to give back to this community as much as I possibly can, but I didn't go into this desiring or needing the Trans title, I did it so I could be called a girl.
I don't like being called a ->-bleeped-<-, cause thats not what I really am, I'm a girl. I know I should just get over it, but I'm a girl, and cannot stand people thinking of me any other way. Why? Cause that would be like saying, "Oh there goes Jerry..."
"Well whats up with him? He's so strange"
"He's a Lupus. But he identifies as a dude."
And I'm not trying to insult or anything, its just semantics... But that kills my self esteem to be both at the same time, both ->-bleeped-<- and girl. It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to live with this special title my whole life, barred from JUST* being thought of as a girl. Thats like drawing lines in the sand for me...
I'm not kidding myself either. I'm trans, obviously... But I don't like being called that by people unless they totally KNOW and understand and interpret me as nothing but a girl...
I'm sorry that sounds so confusing... But my self esteem is ruined whenever people say, "Oh yeah, we take you seriously!"
and then they turn around with horrible additions to comments like those...
Quote from: Kara-Xen on October 25, 2009, 01:30:26 AM
I don't wanna be called that! I feel like I need to give back to this community as much as I possibly can, but I didn't go into this desiring or needing the Trans title, I did it so I could be called a girl.
Yes, you are a girl and, like a caterpillar becoming a butterfly, you are in a process of transition. It's a process that takes courage and emotional fortitude. Part of the burden, right or wrong, is dealing with issues like this.
You see, the caterpillar can insist it's a butterfly but the outside world will point at its transitional state and say "that's a chrysalis". So, aside from the pejorative aspect, try and consider all those terms as nothing more than terms for a transient condition.
In this particular case, I do understand why you feel the way you do - but it does sound like an inadvertent faux pas on their part.
Take care...
Quote from: Kara-Xen on October 25, 2009, 01:30:26 AM
I don't wanna be called that! I feel like I need to give back to this community as much as I possibly can, but I didn't go into this desiring or needing the Trans title, I did it so I could be called a girl.
I don't like being called a ->-bleeped-<-, cause thats not what I really am, I'm a girl. I know I should just get over it, but I'm a girl, and cannot stand people thinking of me any other way. Why? Cause that would be like saying, "Oh there goes Jerry..."
"Well whats up with him? He's so strange"
"He's a Lupus. But he identifies as a dude."
And I'm not trying to insult or anything, its just semantics... But that kills my self esteem to be both at the same time, both ->-bleeped-<- and girl. It is IMPOSSIBLE for me to live with this special title my whole life, barred from JUST* being thought of as a girl. Thats like drawing lines in the sand for me...
I'm not kidding myself either. I'm trans, obviously... But I don't like being called that by people unless they totally KNOW and understand and interpret me as nothing but a girl...
I'm sorry that sounds so confusing... But my self esteem is ruined whenever people say, "Oh yeah, we take you seriously!"
and then they turn around with horrible additions to comments like those...
Erm, you say you don't like being called that, but weren't they refering to other people and not you? Either way, complaining here won't change how they act, the only thing you can do is change how you act. Maybe what you need to do is work on your self-esteem to the point where it doesn't get crushed by people using insensitive words.
True friends do not do that to their real friends, If they were even worth a melody of your time, they would know not to say things like that.
None of my friends have ever used that word around me. So that's that to think about.
There's a connotation attached to that word, it's usually implying something negative about the group of people it is used to describe. It's ok to call your friends on it. Whether or not the word is directed at you doesn't matter if that word bothers you enough, but silence is usually taken as acquiescence.
Quote from: Ketsy on October 25, 2009, 01:59:51 AM
Erm, you say you don't like being called that, but weren't they refering to other people and not you? Either way, complaining here won't change how they act, the only thing you can do is change how you act. Maybe what you need to do is work on your self-esteem to the point where it doesn't get crushed by people using insensitive words.
Trust me... I've been doing my best with self esteem. The fact I can even do art anymore amazes me...
Quote from: Kara-Xen on October 25, 2009, 10:08:21 AM
Trust me... I've been doing my best with self esteem. The fact I can even do art anymore amazes me...
Yeah I don't want to sound harsh, it's just similar to past experiences of mine with being picked on when I was younger etc, and I sort of recognized the mind set. Someone does something that hurts our self esteem, and rather than confront them on it, we go home and cry (figuratively maybe) about it. I didn't have a web forum to do it on at the time, but either way it really doesn't solve anything except maybe get people like me to tell you what you really need to do, which is stand up for yourself. Self-esteem isn't something you tangible that you can have or not have, it's a way of acting, and in this case self-esteem is telling your friends not to use the word around you, and make very clear that it is not a debatable proposition. If they're true friends they will see you mean it and do their best not to say it -- if they're not, then to hell with them.
Probably a little harsh too. But I'd talk to them about it for the second or last time & if they keep it up, maybe it's time for new friends.
Quote from: Kara-Xen on October 25, 2009, 12:35:38 AM
While you're standing right next to them... Sure they're queer and aren't bigoted. This person in question is straight though...
I don't think it matters what their orientation is. I know plenty of queers who are bigots and plenty of straights who aren't.
It would hurt me when people would use insensitive language around me. I finally realized that either I needed to speak up and tell them to cut it out or I should put on another layer of armor to let it roll off.
Several times, as an alternative to these two approaches, I've talked one-on-one with people to try to work out why I found hurtful their remarks that weren't directed at me. Approaching it as honest inquiry helped both of us gain some understanding.
Suffering in silence sucks. Don't do it. :eusa_hand:
- Kate
It depends on the context. I however sometimes us this word when talking about myself however not in a bad way.
Jay
i think people need to lighten up on that word. it's just a word, people! what matters is how it's used. In my opinion, ->-bleeped-<- is perfectly acceptable shorthand for transsexual.
I dunno, just my two cents.
Quote from: beth~chella on October 25, 2009, 03:01:44 PM
i think people need to lighten up on that word. it's just a word, people! what matters is how it's used. In my opinion, ->-bleeped-<- is perfectly acceptable shorthand for transsexual.
I dunno, just my two cents.
It is just a word, I agree and that it does matter in how it's used.
But in terms of acceptable shorthand for transsexual? I'll stick to trans.
Well instead of making the word taboo, perhaps we can try to re-seed it into public consciousness as a term of endearment? :)
->-bleeped-<- is to transexual as granny is to grandmother. lol!
Quote from: beth~chella on October 25, 2009, 03:01:44 PM
i think people need to lighten up on that word. it's just a word, people! what matters is how it's used. In my opinion, ->-bleeped-<- is perfectly acceptable shorthand for transsexual.
I dunno, just my two cents.
I shouldn't have even brought it up... I just need to tell them that I'm a little sensitive about it. I need to vent sometimes...
Its not necessarily the word in this... And I know gay people can be bigoted too, quite obviously.. But the real point is that I'd rather not be freaking REMINDED by my friends of this stuff, when I'm trying to be sociable and stay distracted and productive. I don't wanna censor them, cause I'm not politically correct either... But its an open wound for me and it just hurts. Its not just a self esteem issue. Why should I have to have unnecessary pain on top of it all?
I mean... If I'm in the mood, then I'll sometimes joke a little about it, but I don't like it really... It roughly translates to, "Fake, gross, plastic, synthetic, pseudo girl, drag queen," To most Americans my age, even if they aren't a bigot (This guy was NOT a bigot, I was just saying). I don't personally think that, but I know how I used to think when I was younger and more foolish. It is just a word... But pride or not, I'd rather not be caged into and associated with something that is not yet an inconsequential, light, title.
And
Quote from: Ketsy on October 25, 2009, 10:13:40 AM
Yeah I don't want to sound harsh, it's just similar to past experiences of mine with being picked on when I was younger etc, and I sort of recognized the mind set. Someone does something that hurts our self esteem, and rather than confront them on it, we go home and cry (figuratively maybe) about it. I didn't have a web forum to do it on at the time, but either way it really doesn't solve anything except maybe get people like me to tell you what you really need to do, which is stand up for yourself. Self-esteem isn't something you tangible that you can have or not have, it's a way of acting, and in this case self-esteem is telling your friends not to use the word around you, and make very clear that it is not a debatable proposition. If they're true friends they will see you mean it and do their best not to say it -- if they're not, then to hell with them.
Self esteem isn't this polar thing that people claim it to be... If I were to have perfect self esteem, non stop, 24/7, then I would be naive. I do have self esteem... And I try my best for the crap I've been through. If something like this didn't affect my self esteem or how I felt, then I wouldn't have thought to do all of this in the first place... I have feelings. I'm not a lobotomy patient.
Quote from: finewine on October 25, 2009, 03:27:59 PM
Well instead of making the word taboo, perhaps we can try to re-seed it into public consciousness as a term of endearment? :)
->-bleeped-<- is to transexual as granny is to grandmother. lol!
With such loose titles as "Girl" and "Boy" and what they mean to people and how people define/interpret them... Then when I pass, would I still forever be trans then? The word comes from a process... And if this works... The process will be on hold, and therefore I'll just be a girl as far as anyone else is concerned, or whatever I want (sorry my brain is having an aneurism)... I mean... I didn't get into this with the driving, insane motivation to push to be a transwoman... I pushed to just be a girl... A base to work from that I should have had, after that, whatever the hell I feel like. Who's to say that I'm still trans then, until another procedure came along which allowed me to continue transitioning?
Sorry... Just food for thought I guess... ? *Bashes skull against the wall
I'm going to step up to the plate and tell them how I feel about that word and stuff regardless, so it doesn't matter...
I'll just keep trying my best.