I was sitting here reading up on everything, and I'm trying to figure out if hormone therapy is even necessary for MTF. I'm sure it is and I haven't found out why yet. I just don't want to do something that big to my brain unless it's totally necessary. A lot of the things like getting hips and bigger breasts could be taken care of with cosmetic surgery. My hip bones themselves are wide enough and I don't think I want any more there (they make me sad because I work hard to maintain under 6% body fat but I still have love handles because of my bones :P). Any thoughts?
There are many different ways to transition.
HRT (for mental and physical effects), FFS, SRS and presenting as female are all somewhat independent.
Many people start out wanting a subset of the above and end up wanting everything.
Still, there are many people who hold back on specific items for specific reasons.
I would have to rate the mental/emotional effects of HRT to be extremely important for me.
I wanted to do something "that big to my brain".
I'm very happy.
Quote from: DL71 on October 30, 2009, 02:17:10 AM
I was sitting here reading up on everything, and I'm trying to figure out if hormone therapy is even necessary for MTF. I'm sure it is and I haven't found out why yet. I just don't want to do something that big to my brain unless it's totally necessary. A lot of the things like getting hips and bigger breasts could be taken care of with cosmetic surgery. My hip bones themselves are wide enough and I don't think I want any more there (they make me sad because I work hard to maintain under 6% body fat but I still have love handles because of my bones :P). Any thoughts?
Honestly, hrt doesnt do that much to the brain... people make a big deal about it because it makes them happier... more comfortable, but doesnt CHANGE them... you dont 'become' a woman if you aernt one, and you dont magically become someone else.
The HRT is to stop the male hormones making you more... um, male, and to put the 'right' hormones in your body.
Your hips really wont grow that much in all honesty, if at all, and while you can get the same results with surgery, it costs a LOT more, and why bother when you can have it naturally? ie, you...
my question is why not? HRT, for a transsexual person, really doesnt have any downsides in the results category.
Quote from: The None Blonde on October 30, 2009, 07:05:21 AM
Honestly, hrt doesnt do that much to the brain...
Sorry, I beg to differ. This is a case of YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).
My brain is entirely different on HRT. It's been the ingredient that I've been lacking.
How so?
I mean, hrt made me more... emotional, but thats a hormonal thing anyway, it broadened feelings... tastes etc... all chemical. Nothing about me neurologically is that different, I was a girl before, I am now, I guess its different for everyone, but I cant see how you'd 'change'.
You can't get the same fat redistribution through surgery, I would imagine you wouldn't get as good a result from Breast Augmentation if you don't use the hormones to grow a bit of breast to begin with and there's all the minor effects that add up too like the smoother skin, finer body hair etc. Not to mention halting further male development if you're younger and the fact that the "changes" to your brain are positive from most reports. Speaking for myself I can say I think a lot more clearly and have been happier since HRT, though obviously it's not a cure all
Quote from: Renate on October 30, 2009, 07:10:49 AM
Sorry, I beg to differ. This is a case of YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).
My brain is entirely different on HRT. It's been the ingredient that I've been lacking.
I am with you on this. I am calm when I used to be angry, I am more understanding and patient, I have more empathy and just a general feeling of well being. Those things are in your brain and not another part of your body. This has had a huge effect on me. And let us not forget about pheromone production and reception. Receptors in the brain will change to match that of a female (if you are MTF).
And to the OP. There will be a lot of physical changes such as softer skin, less body hair, fat redistribution in face, waist, hips and thighs.
Quote from: Renate on October 30, 2009, 07:01:18 AM
I would have to rate the mental/emotional effects of HRT to be extremely important for me.
I wanted to do something "that big to my brain".
I'm very happy.
Quote from: The None Blonde on October 30, 2009, 07:13:07 AM
How so?
I mean, hrt made me more... emotional, but thats a hormonal thing anyway, it broadened feelings... tastes etc... all chemical. Nothing about me neurologically is that different, I was a girl before, I am now, I guess its different for everyone, but I cant see how you'd 'change'.
Renate why did you feel you needed hormones to change your mind
HRT is not thinking about becoming a woman
Quote from: Krissy_Australia on October 30, 2009, 08:17:28 AM
Renate why did you feel you needed hormones to change your mind
Um, it didn't "change" my mind.
HRT was the missing ingredient that I needed.
It gave me calmness, patience, serenity and happiness.
In some ways, for me, it had very little to do with gender.
In other ways, for me, it had a lot to do with gender and giving me emotional 3 dimensionalism.
Then why say
I would have to rate the mental/emotional effects of HRT to be extremely important for me.
I wanted to do something "that big to my brain".
Post Merge: October 30, 2009, 07:33:56 AM
i wanted to change my body
There is the 'brain' and then there is the 'mind'. :)
http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2009/09/effects-of-hormones-on-brain.html (http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2009/09/effects-of-hormones-on-brain.html)
The Effects of Hormones on the Brain
Two for the reference library:
Changing your sex changes your brain: influences of testosterone and estrogen on adult human brain structure by Pol et al, Europ Jnl Endocrinology, Vol 155, suppl_1, S107-S114 2006
Abstract
Objective: Sex hormones are not only involved in the formation of reproductive organs, but also induce sexually-dimorphic brain development and organization. Cross-sex hormone administration to transsexuals provides a unique possibility to study the effects of sex steroids on brain morphology in young adulthood.
Methods: Magnetic resonance brain images were made prior to, and during, cross-sex hormone treatment to study the influence of anti-androgen + estrogen treatment on brain morphology in eight young adult male-to-female transsexual human subjects and of androgen treatment in six female-to-male transsexuals.
Results: Compared with controls, anti-androgen + estrogen treatment decreased brain volumes of male-to-female subjects towards female proportions, while androgen treatment in female-to-male subjects increased total brain and hypothalamus volumes towards male proportions.
Conclusions: The findings suggest that, throughout life, gonadal hormones remain essential for maintaining aspects of sex-specific differences in the human brain.
In other words, sex hormones cause gross changes in volume in some brain structures.
Ok that's what I meant.... Hormones dont 'change' your brain.... at all.
They do however have chemical effects generated by the hormones themselves....
Same engine
DIfferent fuel... engine performs differently?
Quote from: Krissy_Australia on October 30, 2009, 08:17:28 AM
Renate why did you feel you needed hormones to change your mind
HRT is not thinking about becoming a woman
Im with Renate on this one because you do feel tranquility! It is not "about becoming a woman"
However it helps one's center to be one with self!
There's an arithmetic equation between the serotonin levels with estrogen that come into effect. You feel "Happy" and "Glad" and relief all in one!
I can also list all those positive aspects that have already been mentioned. I've heard it described as being like the difference between seeing the world in black and white, and seeing it in color, which seems fairly accurate.
Having said that however, if you think you're a male now, hormones won't suddenly make you think you're female. We already think as females, that's the problem and why I don't understand why anyone who suffered dysphoria would not want to replace the poison in their bodies with something more compatible. Hormones affect a lot more than just brain chemistry, breasts and hips. There are myriad subtle and not so subtle changes that it brings to both mind and body. I can't speak for those who just want to grow breasts or whatever. In that case, yeah, get surgery. But if you feel trapped in the complete wrong body as a lot of us do, then hormones are a necessary part of making yourself complete.
Quote from: FairyGirl on October 30, 2009, 09:47:16 AM
I can also list all those positive aspects that have already been mentioned. I've heard it described as being like the difference between seeing the world in black and white, and seeing it in color, which seems fairly accurate.
Having said that however, if you think you're a male now, hormones won't suddenly make you think you're female. We already think as females, that's the problem and why I don't understand why anyone who suffered dysphoria would not want to replace the poison in their bodies with something more compatible. Hormones affect a lot more than just brain chemistry, breasts and hips. There are myriad subtle and not so subtle changes that it brings to both mind and body. I can't speak for those who just want to grow breasts or whatever. In that case, yeah, get surgery. But if you feel trapped in the complete wrong body as a lot of us do, then hormones are a necessary part of making yourself complete.
Amen, sister.
I don't know if the hormones changed my brain, my mind, or what, but I feel "right" for the first time in my life. Now I am extroverted instead of introverted. I am chatty instead of quiet. My feelings are all over the place instead of restrained and I can feel things deeply for the first time.
I started hormones to change my body. Now I need them because of how they make me
feel.
Hormones are not like happy pills. I've tried those, and the effects I get on HRT are nothing like them. Someone described it as finally running on the right grade of fuel. After seven months on hormones I am beginning to understand what it might mean to be whole. :)
As always, YMMV.
- Kate
Quote from: The None Blonde on October 30, 2009, 09:01:49 AM
Ok that's what I meant.... Hormones dont 'change' your brain.... at all.
They do however have chemical effects generated by the hormones themselves....
Same engine
DIfferent fuel... engine performs differently?
Emphasis is mine.I like that NB. And that is how I look at HRT. My mind was running on Regular. Now it is on a mixture of Regular and Premium. After my Orchie, my mind will be running on pure Premium.
Can you do this without HRT? Yes, but for surgery one must conform to the SOC, which includes HRT. Otherwise, to my mind, you are not TS, but Like the mayor of Silverton, OR, TG.
JMHO,
Janet
HRT haven't been a mind altering drug for me and I'm the same as I've always been no matter if I'm on HRT or off it. The effects I've found are limiting and disappointing in the fact they haven't implimented the physical effects I was looking for.
Quote from: DL71 on October 30, 2009, 02:17:10 AM
What if you just don't do harmone therapy?
You might not be able to find any harmony. :icon_blink:
:icon_chuckel: :icon_yes:
Quote from: DL71 on October 30, 2009, 02:17:10 AM
I was sitting here reading up on everything, and I'm trying to figure out if hormone therapy is even necessary for MTF. I'm sure it is and I haven't found out why yet. I just don't want to do something that big to my brain unless it's totally necessary. A lot of the things like getting hips and bigger breasts could be taken care of with cosmetic surgery. My hip bones themselves are wide enough and I don't think I want any more there (they make me sad because I work hard to maintain under 6% body fat but I still have love handles because of my bones :P). Any thoughts?
I don't think anyone would know if you did or didn't, the effects are so slight. I know a TG person who has been on HRT for many years and still works as a man. No one at work suspects he had ever been on HRT.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on November 03, 2009, 07:46:06 AM
I know a TG person who has been on HRT for many years and still works as a man. No one at work suspects he had ever been on HRT.
as I read this all cuddled up and warm and nekkie after having decided not to get out of bed for a few more days, i'm sure glad I didn't believe the naysayers when I started looking into hrt. My dramatically changed face, incredibly enhanced emotional capacity, this warm, soft, hairless skin and perky little b cups would never have happened.
Quote from: Becca on November 03, 2009, 10:30:25 AM
as I read this all cuddled up and warm and nekkie after having decided not to get out of bed for a few more days, i'm sure glad I didn't believe the naysayers when I started looking into hrt. My dramatically changed face, incredibly enhanced emotional capacity, this warm, soft, hairless skin and perky little b cups would never have happened.
'zackly.
Quote from: Becca on November 03, 2009, 10:30:25 AM...naysayers...
:eusa_boohoo::icon_bored::icon_blahblah:
Quote from: Becca on November 03, 2009, 10:30:25 AMdramatically changed face, incredibly enhanced emotional capacity, this warm, soft, hairless skin and perky little b cups...
:eusa_think: :icon_walk: :icon_rockon:
Quote from: Becca on November 03, 2009, 10:30:25 AM
as I read this all cuddled up and warm and nekkie after having decided not to get out of bed for a few more days, i'm sure glad I didn't believe the naysayers when I started looking into hrt. My dramatically changed face, incredibly enhanced emotional capacity, this warm, soft, hairless skin and perky little b cups would never have happened.
It still doesn't alter the fact that to the casual worker the guy didn't look any different on HRT or not. For you personally your skin may have improved and you may have some breast growth but overral it's very hard to tell who is and who isn't on HRT.
Thanks for exposing all of us as the liars that we are.
the changes to my face were what outed me to my mom and sister because they could tell something was different and they both asked me about it. They live in another city and I only see them about once a month or so, and I could only blame it on the face cream for so long. I finally told them I was on therapist recommended and doctor prescibed hormone treatments, and that is actually how I finally came out to my family. They also noticed the breasts but the face changes were what originally gave me away. I had no idea what kind of results I would have when I started, but after a while I had no desire to try and "hide" who I really am from anybody. Accept me or don't, but I'll be damned if I'll pretend some lie because someone might have a problem with it.
The thing is we can't know before we begin how our minds or bodies are going to react to hormones. They are powerful and really should not be taken lightly or without doctor's supervision. To think otherwise is dangerous. This ain't baby aspirin we're talking about.
Quote from: Imadique on October 30, 2009, 07:50:23 AM
Speaking for myself I can say I think a lot more clearly and have been happier since HRT, though obviously it's not a cure all
Me too. I was surprised by this effect. It reminds me of when I put my glasses on in the morning (severely myopic). Everything goes from fuzzy to clear in an instant. It's really surprising because I never expected clarity or clear thinking to be gender or hormone-related.
Not long after starting hormones, I read a post here from an FtM (I don't remember who) who described his changes in attitude and feeling after starting T. It described perfectly the changes I felt getting off T and starting E. I certainly didn't expect that. ???
I know what you mean about clarity, Nero. It's like I can see the world (and myself) clearly now for the first time. :)
- Kate
Quote from: FairyGirl on November 04, 2009, 10:21:13 AM
The thing is we can't know before we begin how our minds or bodies are going to react to hormones. They are powerful and really should not be taken lightly or without doctor's supervision. To think otherwise is dangerous. This ain't baby aspirin we're talking about.
I actually think the opposite. HRT is hyped up by the TG community as some sort of wonder drug but after many years on HRT (and seeing other people also on HRT) it isn't the holy grail people think it's going to be.
I'm not sure how HRT can be dangerous? Anti - androgens can be dangerous granted but I'm not sure about HRT. For me personally the effects have not provided me with danger, only frustration that they do not effect any real changes. The most you can hope for is a little breast growth and slightly softer skin tone.
Most? I disagree.
Like some here, I've had a lot of change from hrt... I think it depends on age, luck, genetics, and random chance.... I belive there is some hype, but it does and can make a difference thats huge.
I've spoken to some people i knew before... and they didnt recognise me.... if thats no change, I don't know what is.
yes genetics, age, some luck all play... for those that are unlucky there is ffs and that is very dramatic on majority of cases
Quote from: The None Blonde on November 05, 2009, 06:40:04 AM
Most? I disagree.
Like some here, I've had a lot of change from hrt... I think it depends on age, luck, genetics, and random chance.... I belive there is some hype, but it does and can make a difference thats huge.
I've spoken to some people i knew before... and they didnt recognise me.... if thats no change, I don't know what is.
Aye, people don't recognise me either, even relatives I haven't seen in a while but it's more to do with a different image change and hairstyle than HRT.
Also Non Blonde, you are very young and I'm not very young, so your effects from HRT will be much better than mine!
The main dangers of a regimin of anti-androgens and estrogen are the risk of blood clots and liver damage. It also increases your risks for certain cancers, deep vein thrombosis, and stroke. And there are a long list of less likely increased risks. For some people the risks are minor, while they are significant for others. It is worth having a doctor check you out to make sure you aren't in a high-risk category.
I want to be a live woman rather than a dead woman wannabe.
- Kate
Then again, one also looses the risks associated with the biological male body to an extent thanks to hrt....
Its les of 'new risk' and more.... trading risks.
I know i'd rather have breast cancer than testicular cancer.... the latter would be hard to explain lol.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on November 05, 2009, 06:34:21 AM
I'm not sure how HRT can be dangerous? Anti - androgens can be dangerous granted but I'm not sure about HRT
Well physically speaking I think it's a lot safer than it used to be, with micronised bioidenticals and doctors that are mostly cooperative. This idea that it's pointless though and not worthwhile is very dangerous. It could result in people not even trying and just ending their lives; or just as bad self medicating and megadosing trying to "beat the odds".
It's clear that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IU1bzZheWk# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IU1bzZheWk#)
According to Dr. McGinn who provided me with a printout on the subject, it also increases chances of death in patients with prostate cancer being treated with radiation therapy, and patients (men) with coronary artery disease. This was from the Urology Times E-News, Sept. 10 2009 based on a study published in the JAMA (2009; 302:886-73).
To go around proclaiming that hormones do little or nothing for everyone because they have done little or nothing for you is the same as claiming that everyone will always have the optimal results possible. Personally, I've had amazing results in a relative short time. According to many people here, they have as well. But making wild statements about the efficacy of HRT based on your own poor experience is misleading to those who are searching for answers to the question of whether they should try hormones to alleviate their GID. Yes, HRT is a box of chocolates but a lot of people actually like chocolate.
Fairygirl,
I could not have said it better, as I have been struggling to come up the right words,
more than what I have already post on this subject, without looking like an ogre.
I'm on hrt as much for what it will prevent as what it will cause.
I don't want to go bald.
I don't want an incresingly tough and craggy face.
I don't want more and more body hair to develop.
In other words I'm scared of what I would become without hrt. I was scared enough when puberty hit, and basically gave up hope when my fears were realized, but it just ... kept ... getting ... worse.
I like what hrt does. I like my breasts, however puny. I like my soft skin, smoother for having a bit less hair (and much smoother than they would be without hrt, considering how things were going). I like the glow in my cheeks. I like the more graceful appearance of my arms. And I like that my sex drive is no longer at odds with my desire for intimacy.
Quote from: Alyssa M. on November 05, 2009, 04:01:49 PM
I'm on hrt as much for what it will prevent as what it will cause.
I don't want to go bald.
I don't want an incresingly tough and craggy face.
I don't want more and more body hair to develop.
In other words I'm scared of what I would become without hrt. I was scared enough when puberty hit, and basically gave up hope when my fears were realized, but it just ... kept ... getting ... worse.
I like what hrt does. I like my breasts, however puny. I like my soft skin, smoother for having a bit less hair (and much smoother than they would be without hrt, considering how things were going). I like the glow in my cheeks. I like the more graceful appearance of my arms. And I like that my sex drive is no longer at odds with my desire for intimacy.
Great post Alyssa....and I feel the same about it