Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Female to male transsexual talk (FTM) => Topic started by: Konnor on November 07, 2009, 09:43:11 PM

Title: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 07, 2009, 09:43:11 PM
I finally got to 15 posts so I'm going to do the "do I pass" thing like everyone else. I apologize in advance, I know everyone is probably tired of these type of posts, but it's kind of hard to tell when looking at yourself. I've also not posted pictures before so I hope I did that right. I'm mostly concerned about my body and maybe what types of clothes I should wear and not wear, because that's what makes me the most nervous. These are very recent pictures, except the body pics are from a few days before I got my hair cut. Feel free to be as blunt as you want, I obviously made this topic to get opinions. Thanks everyone!!

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FCWrestling74%2FHPIM1476.jpg&hash=dae83a1276ae34cf2f3677ace9653819761b60bb)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FCWrestling74%2FHPIM1478.jpg&hash=24523495687e261df8e88cbc639a145392a35089)

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff202%2FCWrestling74%2FHPIM1490.jpg&hash=594a84e22efc5eb64cfaac221f9d61a2bdb2791c)

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Ali Noir on November 07, 2009, 09:49:51 PM
From these photos, I would not second guess you're a boy. I think the clothes are fine.
And on top of that, I love your eyes. heh :]
xoxo
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Renate on November 07, 2009, 10:04:36 PM
I think that you clearly look like a guy.
I think that it's mostly your jaw that does that.

That being said, I'll mention some features that work against that.
You have a small chin and a small mouth.
Your nose is tilted up a bit, which is not so apparent in the photos when the angle is down.

You do have nice eyes.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Al James on November 07, 2009, 10:08:41 PM
yeah you pass totally 100 percent
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: s1ncere on November 07, 2009, 10:14:21 PM
dude,you for sure pass.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Lachlann on November 07, 2009, 10:15:18 PM
The only bit that doesn't really look masculine is your eyes. But that's probably something a lot of us have issues with. Bio-males tend to have their eyebrows set lower, probably from the weight of their brow.

Your profile looks a bit feminine as well, but it's mostly from what looks like baby fat and normal fat distribution in women.

If you plan on getting on T, it'll fix it up for the most part. I can't say if you pass or not because not only am I looking for these things as someone who is TS, I'm also an artist and I have to keep tabs on anatomy and what is feminine and what is masculine. What makes the two bodies different. So I'm double checking on two accounts.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Hannah on November 07, 2009, 10:28:04 PM
Why do you say "groan"? I for one like threads like this, especially encouraging ones but even the discouraging ones usually include good advice. Like you said it is hard to critique yourself honestly and nobody has an eye for this stuff like we do  8)
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: xACEx on November 07, 2009, 10:46:25 PM
yes you def pass....but i try not to ever think about it, bc it seems like when i stress it then it affects my confidence...i know who i am on the inside...all that matters
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Silver on November 07, 2009, 10:59:56 PM
You look like a boy to me. Pretty young-looking. Your hips are a little wide but I don't think it's that big a deal.

Hey, I like these threads. As I type I'm taking mental notes on how all of these Pre-T transguys look in these threads.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 07, 2009, 11:02:35 PM
Wow! So many replies already, I'm so excited!! First off, thank you to everyone who replied thus far, I really appreciate it!! To some specific posts:

Renate: I agree 100%. I try to keep my jaw open while keeping my mouth closed a lot, makes my face look less round. I hope that explanation made sense haha. I do think I have a really small chin and mouth though. My ex always jokes that I have "white boy lips" whatever the heck that means lol.

Tristan: Yeah, I have really long, dark eyelashes and they define my eyes more than normal guys. I have seen quite a few guys with really pretty eyes though, so that gives me hope. Ugh yeah, I'm chubby, I especially have the chubby girl cheeks. That's why I try to keep my jaw open in hopes that it makes them appear slimmer. I hope T makes me look more masculine!!

Silverfang: Ughhh yeah that's the part I hate the most. My giant child-bearing hips and thighs. I'm so self-conscious of them. :(

Thanks again everyone for your opinions. Feel free to keep them coming!

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Luc on November 07, 2009, 11:28:40 PM
Yeah, I'd say you absolutely pass, albeit as a pretty young boy. That's how we all are prior to T, though, and actually, after T. I'm 27, but I still get carded for cigarettes and, if you can believe it, rated R movies. Yes, you have girly hips, but they're not bad. And I think we've all established via various threads that nobody really looks at your hips if you pass otherwise, unless they already think you're a chick. You're good, man.

Also, I have to agree with the majority of posters... I dig the "do I pass" threads. It's nice to see what folks on here really look like.

SD
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Nimetön on November 07, 2009, 11:58:26 PM
I don't think that I've ever seen this before: Yes, you pass perfectly.

- N
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Lachlann on November 08, 2009, 12:00:23 AM
Quote from: Sebastien on November 07, 2009, 11:28:40 PM
Yeah, I'd say you absolutely pass, albeit as a pretty young boy. That's how we all are prior to T, though, and actually, after T. I'm 27, but I still get carded for cigarettes and, if you can believe it, rated R movies. Yes, you have girly hips, but they're not bad. And I think we've all established via various threads that nobody really looks at your hips if you pass otherwise, unless they already think you're a chick. You're good, man.

Also, I have to agree with the majority of posters... I dig the "do I pass" threads. It's nice to see what folks on here really look like.

SD
That could be because you look like a younger guy or it could be because some places card you until you look like you're in your 30's.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Ender on November 08, 2009, 12:50:22 AM
Yah, from the pics you pass, definitely.  Cute young boy.  12 or 13-ish.

I could pick on the small things that might be tell-tale (a little larger hips than would be typically expected for a young boy, chin just a little small in profile), but really, these things are small potatoes.  The biggest factor in whether you pass or not is probably gonna be your voice.  Mannerisms factor in, too.  And if someone considers you a boy and finds out that you're considerably older than 12/13, they'll probably start wondering.

One more thing: your eyes are killer.  I don't think they're overly 'female,' though they're unusually 'pretty' for a dude.  But I've also seen a handful of guys with eyes just like that, so I think you're fine.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Lachlann on November 08, 2009, 01:00:24 AM
Quote from: Eryk on November 08, 2009, 12:50:22 AM
Yah, from the pics you pass, definitely.  Cute young boy.  12 or 13-ish.

I could pick on the small things that might be tell-tale (a little larger hips than would be typically expected for a young boy, chin just a little small in profile), but really, these things are small potatoes.  The biggest factor in whether you pass or not is probably gonna be your voice.  Mannerisms factor in, too.  And if someone considers you a boy and finds out that you're considerably older than 12/13, they'll probably start wondering.

One more thing: your eyes are killer.  I don't think they're overly 'female,' though they're unusually 'pretty' for a dude.  But I've also seen a handful of guys with eyes just like that, so I think you're fine.
Oh yeah, a lot about passing is about how you present yourself. You can look the part and all, but people really do pick up on the mannerisms. So if you're adrogynous looking but your mannerisms scream male, then that's how people are going to see you. Passing isn't just about looks.

Unfortunately for us FTMs, unless we were gifted with a deep or androgynous voice, once you open your mouth it kind of gives it away.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Calistine on November 08, 2009, 12:25:27 PM
You pass almost perfectly, although I think the area around you waist looks feminine. That can be taken care of though. Good job.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Alex_C on November 08, 2009, 01:22:22 PM
No.

Get on T or do some serious training.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Jay on November 08, 2009, 05:22:04 PM
I think so young but yeah a guy..

Jay
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Nick Aiden on November 08, 2009, 05:22:13 PM
Konnor, knowing you from other boards as well. I've never seen a pic of you that didn't resemble a boy.

QuoteNo.

Get on T or do some serious training.

Yes T will make you appear more male, and in a technical sense make you hormonally male. I feel like people view T as THE MECCA *echoes*

You look like a Boy, T will make you look like a man over time. But I also know lots of people who don't pass any better on T, because of other problems. (Large chest, lack of facial hair growth, etc.)

To address another point, the training aspect of what Alex said. Sure its a stereotypical belief that MAN = MUSCLE. However, that too is questionable cause many guys have never even seen a gym let alone make it their passion.

So not to "call you out" Alex, this is all friendly here, but your opinions dont match mine :)

(That being said, I'm going on T in Jan. '10 and love to work out! Contradicting I know, but I also know that its not for everyone)

Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Lachlann on November 08, 2009, 06:28:11 PM
I think people take Alex's posts out of context. Maybe I am now as well, but I think by hitting the weights he doesn't necessarily mean building muscle.

There are buff women and there are buff men, but there are different kinds of builds. You don't need to be super buff or anything but a body builder isn't about huge muscles. There are many different kinds of body builders and I personally think everyone should have such a lifestyle because it is healthy. Those people you see going for morning jogs or walks? They are body builders.

Konnor, you do admit to being chubby, and estrogen does increase your body fat. It wouldn't hurt to go for bike rides or walks, something that'll keep you active but at a slow pace. There's nothing wrong with chub at all, in fact it has it's benefits, but in terms of passing it'll outline your feminine features depending on how much you have. That is entirely up to you to decide, and I don't think it's necessary to really get rid of the chub if you feel it is healthy. I wouldn't want to give you advice without know if you're at a healthy weight or not.

Even so, exercise is good. If you don't already, it'll make you feel good about yourself and boost your confidence. When you exercise you're releasing serotonin, which is good if you have a hard time dealing with depression. This is advice everyone should consider. You don't have to hit the gym or weights, it can be as simple as swimming, a bike ride, jogging or walking.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 08, 2009, 08:04:57 PM
Hey everyone. Thanks for all the great responses, they really help me figure out how people see me. On the voice topic, I do have a pretty androgynous voice. It's not as masculine as it could be, but it's not horribly feminine either. It doesn't automatically out me as soon as I open my mouth...usually the only place I don't pass is my GLBT club, with people who know what to look for in FTMs.

On the topic of getting in shape, I'm in decent shape actually. I've been a runner since I was about 12, so I mean I'm not a couch potato or anything. The one thing that's changed is that once I graduated HS, I don't lift weights anymore. I need to get back into it, but I lack the motivation since I'll be doing it by myself instead of with a team now. I do feel that I'm at a healthy weight, I just wish I had male fat patterns. All my fat goes to my thighs and love handles. Great, I know, lol. I've been looking around online for one of those weight loss/fitness blogs or groups...where you share ideas and keep track of what you do and all that? But I'd kind of like one for FTMs and haven't found one yet. Anyway, sorry for rambling. Thanks again for all the responses and honest opinions, I really appreciate them!

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: noxdraconis on November 08, 2009, 08:18:07 PM
Quote from: konman on November 08, 2009, 08:04:57 PM
I've been looking around online for one of those weight loss/fitness blogs or groups...where you share ideas and keep track of what you do and all that? But I'd kind of like one for FTMs and haven't found one yet. Anyway, sorry for rambling. Thanks again for all the responses and honest opinions, I really appreciate them!

--Konnor

Try the Yahoo group ftmfit.  They are rather active (ignore the pun), and there is lots of good advice and workout sharing going on over there.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Lachlann on November 08, 2009, 08:24:15 PM
That's good then. :)

Getting the motivation to lift weights can be a pain. In my case, I stopped because while I was toned(and apparently am still keeping it) I just couldn't get any mass. I guess it's just one of those things you have to force yourself to do. But I know what you mean, sometimes I wish I had other people around me to motivate me.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 08, 2009, 08:26:36 PM
Thanks for the tip nox, I will definitely check that out! Yeah Tristan...I've got pretty good looking legs from running a lot, I just have thin shoulders and not very big arms. Getting back into running more often and lifting is something I really need to do and hopefully will soon!

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Myself on November 08, 2009, 08:34:19 PM
I don't think you pass in third photos..
The body looks a bit girly even behind all the covers but I guess it could pass for a boy.. if it wasn't for picture 3.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Elijah3291 on November 08, 2009, 10:28:32 PM
congrats man you totally pass

I mean your eyes are very feminine, and your nose is kinda feminine, but you have a nice jaw and shoulders, and binding is working well.

btw, about the eyes, it can be very attractive for a guy to have girly eyes, ever seen zac efrons eyes? lol and girls are crazy for him.

oh and I like "Do I pass threads" I posted one, and they are fun to answer
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Alex_C on November 08, 2009, 11:25:58 PM
Yep I said "or" because T can be a pain to get on, to take, to afford etc.

So, the idea is to look more male, that means less body fat, more muscle, more angularity basically. Hitting the weights and running can do this.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 09, 2009, 12:24:53 AM
Yeah, it's gonna be atleast 2 more years before I can even think about T. My parents are very against me transitioning and I can't do anything until I finish school and move out.

O'Neil, I never thought I would be ok with being compared to Zac Efron lol. I'm glad my eyes don't automatically out me. Thanks again everyone!!

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Silver on November 09, 2009, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: konman on November 08, 2009, 08:04:57 PM
Hey everyone. Thanks for all the great responses, they really help me figure out how people see me. On the voice topic, I do have a pretty androgynous voice. It's not as masculine as it could be, but it's not horribly feminine either. It doesn't automatically out me as soon as I open my mouth...usually the only place I don't pass is my GLBT club, with people who know what to look for in FTMs.

On the topic of getting in shape, I'm in decent shape actually. I've been a runner since I was about 12, so I mean I'm not a couch potato or anything. The one thing that's changed is that once I graduated HS, I don't lift weights anymore. I need to get back into it, but I lack the motivation since I'll be doing it by myself instead of with a team now. I do feel that I'm at a healthy weight, I just wish I had male fat patterns. All my fat goes to my thighs and love handles. Great, I know, lol. I've been looking around online for one of those weight loss/fitness blogs or groups...where you share ideas and keep track of what you do and all that? But I'd kind of like one for FTMs and haven't found one yet. Anyway, sorry for rambling. Thanks again for all the responses and honest opinions, I really appreciate them!

--Konnor

Well this is unrelated. . . but I'm curious.

So what are your times?
100m?
800m?
Mile?
3200m?
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 09, 2009, 12:39:33 AM
Haha...slow, slow, slow and slow. I was never good at running, I just did it for the team aspect. In track I ran mostly the 400 and relays. My 400m PR was 1:10, 200m PR was 28.7, only ran the 100 in junior high so I have no idea, mile was like 7min and my best xc race (3.1 miles) was 26min. Yeah, I sucked lol. I really enjoyed the camraderie though, and I learned a heck of a lot of life lessons from it. So no harm done. :)

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Lachlann on November 09, 2009, 12:46:37 AM
Quote from: konman on November 09, 2009, 12:39:33 AM
Haha...slow, slow, slow and slow. I was never good at running, I just did it for the team aspect. In track I ran mostly the 400 and relays. My 400m PR was 1:10, 200m PR was 28.7, only ran the 100 in junior high so I have no idea, mile was like 7min and my best xc race (3.1 miles) was 26min. Yeah, I sucked lol. I really enjoyed the camraderie though, and I learned a heck of a lot of life lessons from it. So no harm done. :)

--Konnor
I never did track, because I knew from previous gym classes that I wasn't a good runner. I'm a better swimmer, but never did the teams, I didn't have good self-esteem in my early teens and I wanted to play football and all that but my parents didn't let me because I'm too skinny.  I was pretty good at lifting weights, though, gotta get back into that.

So, I respect you for doing something you felt you weren't good at. That takes 'balls'. ;)
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Alex_C on November 09, 2009, 12:58:26 AM
Konman you look fairly dude-ly in your avatar  :)

I was a surfer kid, and never did track, but did some running at about age 30 and found myself keeping up with fairly serious 5k gals in Los Angeles. I did some bicycle racing and no one beat me in a sprint ever. Got huge legs with all the muscles visible for a while out of that, it was amazing I wish I'd had pics taken.

My big "feat" in sports was national champ in olympic pistol a couple 'a' times, traveled the world a bit doing that, and all you do is hold this little thing up lol. I'm pretty good at shooting and love it all from plinking with pellet guns to well, plinking with the ol' M14 one goes plink one goes PLINK lol.

Running does "shape up" the body all over, trims off a lot of fat, and does a lot for the lean "guy" look, and that's what you'd want to go after. 
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Lachlann on November 09, 2009, 01:05:26 AM
I love marksmanship, from bows to guns. I just wish I had money to get a gun and upgrade my bow.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Alex_C on November 09, 2009, 02:07:07 AM
You can get a decent pellet gun and have a lot of fun with that, quiet and good training.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Lachlann on November 09, 2009, 02:48:37 AM
Quote from: Alex_C on November 09, 2009, 02:07:07 AM
You can get a decent pellet gun and have a lot of fun with that, quiet and good training.
I'll have to look into that sometime. :)
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Nesque on November 09, 2009, 05:24:52 AM
Woah, of course you pass. ^=^ You are great! Good choice of clothing and hair. And your eyes are gorgeous. What a lovely boy you are. (:
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 09, 2009, 02:49:59 PM
Now I have to go look up who Vinnie Jones is... :) Alex, being an Olympian in ANYTHING is a huge feat as far as I'm concerned. I don't care what it is, that had to take a lot of discipline and skill. Thanks for the compliment Nesque, making me blush. :D

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: HarryP on November 09, 2009, 04:51:01 PM
Mate I think you pass really well  :) I think those shirts like you're wearing in your avatar are good for passing cos they don't really make girls' shirts like that, at least not that I've seen.  And your hair is a good style for passing cos it makes you look like a young lad, whereas sometimes when I've tried to have my hair cut to make me look older it makes me look more feminine.  Good one  :)
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 09, 2009, 09:17:21 PM
Alright, Vinnie Jones is HOT!!! lol. I'm honored to be compared to him, although I don't think I look anything like him. Thanks Harry...ehh they have polos for girls, and if you have a bigger chest you can't pass well in them, but I can get away with them. And I'm really glad you all think my hair looks okay, I was afraid my haircut made me look girly.

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Alex_C on November 10, 2009, 09:22:07 PM
I guess you just look like a really young dude in your avatar.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: notyouraverageguy on November 19, 2009, 12:01:52 AM
To me, you are a very attractive young man. Everything's fine, the clothes, the hair.

And I love your eyes!
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: jesse on November 19, 2009, 06:15:51 AM
you pass
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: notyouraverageguy on November 19, 2009, 12:01:24 PM
Btw im jealous of how flat your chest looks, its amazing!
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 19, 2009, 11:12:11 PM
You really think my chest looks good CCC? I worry about it a lot lol. Thanks for the compliments bud!!  :)

--Konnor
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: notyouraverageguy on November 20, 2009, 02:37:28 PM
Quote from: konman on November 19, 2009, 11:12:11 PM
You really think my chest looks good CCC? I worry about it a lot lol. Thanks for the compliments bud!!  :)

--Konnor

Yes, really. I was like woah, have you had top surgery yet. Lol well you shouldn't it looks perfectly fine. :) no problem! Its amazing lol, you don't look like you have moobs at all.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: insanitylives on November 20, 2009, 03:09:25 PM
Quote from: konman on November 19, 2009, 11:12:11 PM
I worry about it [my chest] a lot lol. Thanks for the compliments bud!!  :)

Yeah...
Don't be worried about it.. I don't think anyone would think twice about you being male
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: CodyJess on November 20, 2009, 04:26:09 PM
Your ability to pass is going to hinge more on your body language and on how you sound.

I think, for what you have, you're doing pretty good. Consider getting a gym membership and building your shoulders/arms/lats/traps, to give your upper body a better chance at a male shape. If you're in HS, take up weight lifting for your next semester.

Get on T; it'll do more for you than you could ever do for yourself, and it'll take care of that fat distribution. In the meantime, do what you can so you feel good about yourself, and try not to worry about what other people think.

Also, that's a great haircut.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Alexmakenoise on November 20, 2009, 09:32:37 PM
Yeah, you pass.  But you look a little stiff, like you're trying to pose masculinely for the camera.  You'd probably pass even better in pics that look more relaxed and natural.
Title: Re: I know...*groan*...but do I pass?
Post by: Konnor on November 21, 2009, 01:52:53 PM
Thanks for the chest comments guys, that makes me feel pretty good!! Cody, my voice doesn't out me very often. I don't know about the body language because I don't know what's male vs. female in that department. I'm asking for a gym membership for Christmas, and hopefully I will get myself to start running again and working out. I won't be able to get on T for atleast 2 more years because of my parents...it sucks, but there's not much I can do. Thanks for all the compliments everyone!!

--Konnor