I am just graduating from nursing school and am considering the air force as my next career move. I am concerned about discrimination within the military, but am fully aware that I will probably have to hide everything about myself. Have any of you been in the military? If so, please give me some advice as to whether I should or not. My fear is someone will find out and I will be discharged because of it.
I am just graduating from nursing school and am considering the air force as my next career move. I am concerned about discrimination within the military, but am fully aware that I will probably have to hide everything about myself. Have any of you been in the military? If so, please give me some advice as to whether I should or not. My fear is someone will find out and I will be discharged because of it.
The only experience I have is ROTC, and a lot of hearsay about what goes on once you actually get in, but I don't think it's a huge problem to be yourself and be in the AF. You'll still have to do everything as a woman, and you can't get top surgery or anything like that, but as far as appearance and even taking T goes, you can usually get away with that. Hopefully if I'm giving you wrong info, someone who's been in will come along and correct me. The biggest thing you need to think about is if you can deal with being a woman and addressed as one for the next 6ish years. I know a lot of guys who thought they could handle it, then got in and freaked out, and now they want out. It's a huge decision so just make sure you put a lot of thought into it. I got DQ'd for a medical reason, but from one flyboy to another, thanks for even thinking about serving our country.
--Konnor
I've thought about the Navy before... but figured I probably wouldn't be able to handle it emotionally. I also have an urge to do another career as well and figured that it would be my last option.
I wonder what Canada's view on TG in the military is.
Edit: Found an article that may be interesting for Canadians. http://speakequal.com/?p=2646 (http://speakequal.com/?p=2646)
My BF is retired master sargeant in the airforce. He was married 3 times (to women and had 4 kids). He was gay that whole time but had to hide everything about himself. Now he's slowly coming out to his family, kids ect. All his ex's know now that he's gay. I don't think it's a far stretch to say you would have to hide everything about yourself or risk being removed from the military and most likely with a dishonourable discharge.
Quote from: konman on November 09, 2009, 02:46:31 PM
The biggest thing you need to think about is if you can deal with being a woman and addressed as one for the next 6ish years. I know a lot of guys who thought they could handle it, then got in and freaked out, and now they want out. It's a huge decision so just make sure you put a lot of thought into it. I got DQ'd for a medical reason, but from one flyboy to another, thanks for even thinking about serving our country.
--Konnor
Konnor, I am still called by female pronouns and by my birth name so that wont be a huge change by any means. I have the option of 3, 4, or 6 years so if I did make the decision to go into the air force I would probably choose the 3 years and see how I feel at the end of that. I will go in as an officer because I have two bachelors degrees, one of them is in nursing so I will be in the health professions side of it. I have done a lot of soul searching and am making some great strides to transitioning and then to have to take all that back kinda sucks. ->-bleeped-<- will I even be able to date?
Quote from: Kurzar on November 09, 2009, 03:55:33 PM
My BF is retired master sargeant in the airforce. He was married 3 times (to women and had 4 kids). He was gay that whole time but had to hide everything about himself. Now he's slowly coming out to his family, kids ect. All his ex's know now that he's gay. I don't think it's a far stretch to say you would have to hide everything about yourself or risk being removed from the military and most likely with a dishonourable discharge.
Kurzar, Well, I understand having to hide it. But I can still date and whatever as long as I don't tell anyone? It just sucks because there is a camaraderie in telling someone and being able to trust them with it. I am used to now having those people in my life and feeling comfortable to express myself. How much hiding is necessary?
Quote
Kurzar, Well, I understand having to hide it. But I can still date and whatever as long as I don't tell anyone? It just sucks because there is a camaraderie in telling someone and being able to trust them with it. I am used to now having those people in my life and feeling comfortable to express myself. How much hiding is necessary?
My guess is everything. Don't get caught dating a female if you are a straight F2M. If you're gay it wouldn't be an issue to the outside world, they wouldn't think anything of it. In the end it's up to you in wether you want to take that kind of chance. It's stupid that we are treated this way ..PERIOD.
Do you have any other options besides the military?
Hiding everything about yourself sounds a little like death to me. Is it worth it?
Quote from: Nicky on November 09, 2009, 05:09:20 PM
Do you have any other options besides the military?
Hiding everything about yourself sounds a little like death to me. Is it worth it?
I am in quite a bit of debt due to college. I went back for a second degree in nursing so I could make a better living and go to grad school, but the debt I have is quite high and living comfortably would be difficult without going in. I do not like the idea either, but if i wanted to transition later i would never have the money to do so. It is 3 years. I'll be an officer and in the health professions side of the air force. Can I put things on hold for three years is the question.
Ok I guess my post ever took so here goes again. or if you see this twice sorry.
I was in the Marines. Eventually discharged fro Homosexuality (yep they typed that on the paperwork), this was pre don't ask don't tell. I think the Air Force is a great choice and if you are going to be an officer even better. Everyone I know that says they want to join I tell them to go in the air force. Three years will allow you to see if you like it or not. As far as dating, dating in the military is hard no matter who you date, especially in this day and age with multiple deployments. There was and I am sure still is a large population of gay people in the military, probably the same 10% as the regular population. There will be people you work with that will probably know as you will see them at some gay bar or whatever, but that means they are also gay so it is all good. As far as the trans stuff not sure what to tell you, if you can put that off for three years then great if not there are plenty of other things to be stressed about while in the military adding another is probably not the best idea.
Good Luck
Myles
Do I guess correctly that you are F2M?
Sometimes you just have to do what you need to do. That does not sound like an easy choice but perhaps it will help set you up for a good future.
I get the feeling that nobody would boot you out for being too manly in the military. Perhaps in some ways it would be expected. And you would not be totally on hold, it would be perfectly acceptable to get a masculine haircut, work out to get some muscles and wear rather androgynous clothing.
I'd say go for it.
You have training and would be serving in a field that is greatly needed at this time
You should have no trouble being yourself. Granted, you will be placed among the women and viewed as such
So you like your hair short and exhibit a male persona. As long as you do your job and don't go on any "out to prove something" thing you should be fine.
Actually they will prob. think your great
One thing about the military that is different from any other occupation type is that they basically own you. You give up many of the rights you normally have as a citizen. I can't say from firsthand knowledge, but I'm pretty sure there is no way you could serve as a man, of course. And if you've made any sort of physical changes, that will will be known. And since you will live closely with others I think keeping your gender ID preference secret would be tricky. If I'm not mistaken, the military also gives psychological tests, too.
There are a lot of other low-paying/tough-training occupations with good benefits out there, though. I'd suggest looking into a few more options before signing up. You are young and youth is always in demand with employers.
I'm currently still on active duty and will tell you first hand its HARD. If you are willing to put off who you are for the next few years than sign up. I still date and have some friends who know but it doesn't make it easy. Don't forget to add in all the stress of deployments. You can hide lots here in the states but I promise its not easy over there. Just something to think about before you come in.
I served in the Marine Corps, and I don't think I ever met a female marine who wasn't tougher than I was.
It's a personal decision. Someone here once said it was the best decision they would never repeat. You'll learn things like discipline, bearing, and acquire an inner strength that can get you through just about anything. It's also paying for a masters degree now, 10 years later.
On the downside, yeah your'e looking at four more years in a deep dark closet. That would be a pretty dark side for me, how does it rank in your world? Not having interacted much with that side of things I can't say for sure, but I don't imagine there is much tolerance there either. On the flip side you're expected to behave in a masculine manner, so maybe what was my and other MtF's closet could be your spotlight. Personal thing, but I hope those reflections help a lil bit.
Also, it really isn't the best time to be a soldier for the Empire. If you join I'd think your chances of being shot at are still pretty good, and that's a whole other ball of wax honey.
My advice... DON'T.
The first thing they do is break you down mentally, to rebuild you the same as everyone else. For you, it will mean being like every other girl there. If the uniform of the day is skirts, you WILL be wearing a skirt. Everything is about being like the others, and you aren't.
Pretty much every former military person I know who is TG (and at least knew in the back of their mind at the time), has all had the same problem, MAJOR depression about the time you complete basic training. Not just ho hum depressed either, this is nearly a breakdown.
Then there is the risk. As Kurzar said, don't date women.
Honestly, that doesn't go far enough. You will need to date men. If you don't, they will eventually question you. You spend so much time around these people, that you end up knowing them as well as or better than their spouse. They will notice something is off, the only saving grace is that there ore quite a few "off" people in there.
You have to also keep in mind how it will effect G.I.D. You are being forced to conform to something very against who you are. Your brain will rebel. You may think you are fitting in, and actually getting further and from it. You don't have the choice of going out as a guy as a coping mechanism either. Not without a good long road trip, and even that is sketchy at best. I knew people who knew every place you could get a drink within 250 miles of base, they had been to all of them.
Quote from: Nicky on November 09, 2009, 05:31:13 PM
Sometimes you just have to do what you need to do. That does not sound like an easy choice but perhaps it will help set you up for a good future.
I get the feeling that nobody would boot you out for being too manly in the military. Perhaps in some ways it would be expected. And you would not be totally on hold, it would be perfectly acceptable to get a masculine haircut, work out to get some muscles and wear rather androgynous clothing.
I don't think I would be booted out for being manly, but I would if someone thought I was gay, transgender. I am a straight male, but they will not get that in the military.
Quote from: Virginia Marie on November 09, 2009, 05:33:23 PM
I'd say go for it.
You have training and would be serving in a field that is greatly needed at this time
You should have no trouble being yourself. Granted, you will be placed among the women and viewed as such
So you like your hair short and exhibit a male persona. As long as you do your job and don't go on any "out to prove something" thing you should be fine.
Actually they will prob. think your great
Virginia, Thanks!! I would hope as long as I do my job there would be no problems. If possible I will live off base on my own, that way I dont have to worry about others finding out and going to my commanding officers.
Quote from: Lyric on November 09, 2009, 05:41:04 PM
One thing about the military that is different from any other occupation type is that they basically own you. You give up many of the rights you normally have as a citizen. I can't say from firsthand knowledge, but I'm pretty sure there is no way you could serve as a man, of course. And if you've made any sort of physical changes, that will will be known. And since you will live closely with others I think keeping your gender ID preference secret would be tricky. If I'm not mistaken, the military also gives psychological tests, too.
There are a lot of other low-paying/tough-training occupations with good benefits out there, though. I'd suggest looking into a few more options before signing up. You are young and youth is always in demand with employers.
Lyric, Yes, they do own you in many aspects. I know i would not be able to serve as a guy and right now I am not ready to transition. I will be an officer which will be a plus. i will only live with others during the month I am in officer training. I dont need anything low paying or hard working. I am highly educated, but I have loan debt to go along with it. The military would help to get rid a large portion of that debt. I have looked into other options such as the peace corp, but they really dont pay much of loans. I am not sure of psychological tests.
Post Merge: November 09, 2009, 06:06:24 PM
Quote from: Becca on November 09, 2009, 05:57:55 PM
I served in the Marine Corps, and I don't think I ever met a female marine who wasn't tougher than I was.
It's a personal decision. Someone here once said it was the best decision they would never repeat. You'll learn things like discipline, bearing, and acquire an inner strength that can get you through just about anything. It's also paying for a masters degree now, 10 years later.
On the downside, yeah your'e looking at four more years in a deep dark closet. That would be a pretty dark side for me, how does it rank in your world? Not having interacted much with that side of things I can't say for sure, but I don't imagine there is much tolerance there either. On the flip side you're expected to behave in a masculine manner, so maybe what was my and other MtF's closet could be your spotlight. Personal thing, but I hope those reflections help a lil bit.
Also, it really isn't the best time to be a soldier for the Empire. If you join I'd think your chances of being shot at are still pretty good, and that's a whole other ball of wax honey.
Becca, thanks for your input. It is nice to hear from someone who has been in the military and is similar to myself. I am not afraid of being deployed, if I sign up that is part of my job. I will be a nurse in the air force so my chances of being on the front lines are slim. Being FtoM I think I have an advantage as you said. For females to be more masculine in the military is expected if not encouraged as I have heard. Did you date while you were in the military or go to gay clubs? (I am assuming you are gay, of course) I am a straight male, but have found a tad more acceptance in the gay world.
As far as the deep dark closet, I have very supportive family and friends that I can lean on and be myself around. As long as I can have that it will be easier.
Any other advice or others I can talk to?
Brady,
I spent 24 years in the military. I was married to two different women who both knew I was a cross-dresser. I had to repress a lot of it, but I was good at doing that. (Now I'm paying the price, trying to peel all that off, but that's another story.)
I wasn't in the Air Force but was stationed with AF for a while. I think as a nurse you would have a little more leeway than otherwise (being in the medical field and an officer), but you would have to be very discreet if you date women. You would not be able to date any enlisted person – male or female. It can be kind of a crap shoot because you just have to run into one real a$$h01e who finds out too much to ruin everything. I've heard of pogroms in the nursing corps (bunch of lesbians, doncha know?), but that may be a thing of the past.
It will help you to be well-liked and exceedingly competent, but I saw several gay men cashiered even though they were 4.0 (highest rating). I also knew a couple that had to keep their dating secret until one of them got out because she was an officer and he a senior enlisted. (But I knew they were dating, as did several others.)
Serving in the armed forces can be very rewarding. It can also drive you crazy because of how much of yourself you have to suppress.
Good luck to you, whatever you decide.
- Kate
I wouldn't suggest it... Not to mention wouldn't they examine you and just reject the idea? I mean... They don't let gays in the military, why would they let someone in thats viewed as Gay 2.0 by the world?
...
Can you pass a very detailed physical exam? I doubt they will accept you as a male. They also will not accept you if you are taking hormones. There are many closet lesbians in the military. The Military takes away most of your liberty. You might want to consider other government programs that pay your schooling loans like teaching or the Americorps. http://www.americorps.gov/ (http://www.americorps.gov/)
I almost joined the officers program,but since I am starting my "transition" I don't think I am going that route anymore. And plus,why would I join something that would discriminate me.
Military does have good benefits,but I'm pretty sure you will have no problem with any direction you take with a nursing degree. I say,follow what your guts is telling you to do.
Best wishes.
If anyone is wondering why this might read a little funny, I merged this with a duplicate topic within the ftm forums and all the posts from both just get put into chronological order.
Cheers
Nicki
Quote from: s1ncere on November 09, 2009, 07:59:31 PM
I almost joined the officers program,but since I am starting my "transition" I don't think I am going that route anymore. And plus,why would I join something that would discriminate me.
Military does have good benefits,but I'm pretty sure you will have no problem with any direction you take with a nursing degree. I say,follow what your guts is telling you to do.
Best wishes.
They didn't cover someone I knows dental... He had a comic table on his down time and had an abscess in his mouth all the time he was there.
Quote from: Kara-Xen on November 09, 2009, 09:13:54 PM
They didn't cover someone I knows dental... He had a comic table on his down time and had an abscess in his mouth all the time he was there.
Really? I actually grew up as a military kid. My step father is in the military and I was his dependent.
I think its about 80% they cover for certain procedures.I had to pull out my wisdom teeth and a root canal,a couple of crowns and we had to pay partial.I'm not sure if we paid for the root canal...They cover standard stuff like office visits,fillings,cleaning/polishing,x-rays,etc.
Quote from: Kara-Xen on November 09, 2009, 06:39:12 PM
They don't let gays in the military, why would they let someone in thats viewed as Gay 2.0 by the world?
This is the most awesome thing I've read in a while. Gay 2.0, oh gosh, lol.
Quote from: Becca on November 09, 2009, 09:58:00 PM
This is the most awesome thing I've read in a while. Gay 2.0, oh gosh, lol.
I'm not going to lie.. Its just an observation I've made... Lol.
One of many horrible horrible observations that are just so horrible they make you laugh.
The Air Force is part of the Army. The Marines are part of the Navy. All have their elite groups.
Being accepted into Air Force officers school is no exception. You must be rather intelligent to get accepted there. There is a tendency to protect those they will accept.
You don't go into the military because you want a better job when you get out, or because you need money for college, or because you think it will help you grow up, or straighten you out, or any other outside reason. You go in because you want to serve your nation by subjecting yourself to that nation's military culture which though evil by nature is necessary for the very existence of the state.
Good soldiers know that from the get go and it makes a whole lot of it hella easier to get through. Some of what people above has said is kinda close to the truth. But in reality none of it comes close because the military is a separate culture, one that relies on itself, one that is pretty much closed to outsiders (the military sees the entire world as military or not - solider or civilian, to them its the only distinction worth noting). Military life is traditional, with roots going back to Greece and Rome. Weapons change, sort of, nations and states and empires come and go, military life really doesn't change all that much in time or space. Being a solider in the American Military is much closer to being a Russian solider, than either solider is to being a civilian, and both share a culture where that reality has always been pretty much true. They would understand the rhythm and nature of the Roman Legions more than they would that of Rome itself.
And no matter if you are a nurse, a chaplain, a med-tech, or a clerk typist, you are a solider first and foremost, everything else comes second to that. If you don't want to be a solider, and end up - as often happens to soldiers - in a war where people you don't know are trying to kill you, as you try to kill them you might want to rethink. We are waging two different wars, and neither seems to working its way to an ending any time soon. So its something to think about.
People talk a lot about the kind of mind control, and there is some retraining, but most of the the mind control is in the form of groupthink on the part of the officer corps. The guy who fixes jeeps in the motor pool doesn't have to be 'sold' on the mission or the strategy or tactics, all he has to do is fix the vehicles. But the officers have to all be on the same page. And there is - this is the culture deal working - a real stress placed on getting everyone on the same page and keeping them there.
All the military officers I knew and taught were constantly among the best and brightest students and people I've ever known. They are as a class, highly educated, extremely motivated, and personally driven people. They also share another common characteristic, they believe 100% without waiver or doubt in what they are doing.
Quote from: tekla on November 10, 2009, 12:38:41 AM
You don't go into the military because you want a better job when you get out, or because you need money for college, or because you think it will help you grow up, or straighten you out, or any other outside reason. You go in because you want to serve your nation by subjecting yourself to that nation's military culture which though evil by nature is necessary for the very existence of the state.
Good soldiers know that from the get go and it makes a whole lot of it hella easier to get through. Some of what people above has said is kinda close to the truth. But in reality none of it comes close because the military is a separate culture, one that relies on itself, one that is pretty much closed to outsiders (the military sees the entire world as military or not - solider or civilian, to them its the only distinction worth noting). Military life is traditional, with roots going back to Greece and Rome. Weapons change, sort of, nations and states and empires come and go, military life really doesn't change all that much in time or space. Being a solider in the American Military is much closer to being a Russian solider, than either solider is to being a civilian, and both share a culture where that reality has always been pretty much true. They would understand the rhythm and nature of the Roman Legions more than they would that of Rome itself.
And no matter if you are a nurse, a chaplain, a med-tech, or a clerk typist, you are a solider first and foremost, everything else comes second to that. If you don't want to be a solider, and end up - as often happens to soldiers - in a war where people you don't know are trying to kill you, as you try to kill them you might want to rethink. We are waging two different wars, and neither seems to working its way to an ending any time soon. So its something to think about.
People talk a lot about the kind of mind control, and there is some retraining, but most of the the mind control is in the form of groupthink on the part of the officer corps. The guy who fixes jeeps in the motor pool doesn't have to be 'sold' on the mission or the strategy or tactics, all he has to do is fix the vehicles. But the officers have to all be on the same page. And there is - this is the culture deal working - a real stress placed on getting everyone on the same page and keeping them there.
All the military officers I knew and taught were constantly among the best and brightest students and people I've ever known. They are as a class, highly educated, extremely motivated, and personally driven people. They also share another common characteristic, they believe 100% without waiver or doubt in what they are doing.
Tekla,
Thank you for your response. It is nice to hear from others who either served or worked with those who did. I did not mean to offend anyone at all, I am simply looking for advice. I am seriously considering the military because, yes there are monetary benefits, but also because I want to help others. I considered the peace corp, but after speaking with a recruiter and others who have served the air force seemed a better overall fit. I do want to serve or else I would not even be considering this.
I am extremely educated and intelligent, hence why the officer training program would be good for me. I am not afraid to be deployed, that would be part of my job and duty and I understand this. Can I be a part of the culture? that is the question
Post Merge: November 10, 2009, 01:29:53 AM
Quote from: s1ncere on November 09, 2009, 07:59:31 PM
I almost joined the officers program,but since I am starting my "transition" I don't think I am going that route anymore. And plus,why would I join something that would discriminate me.
Military does have good benefits,but I'm pretty sure you will have no problem with any direction you take with a nursing degree. I say,follow what your guts is telling you to do.
Best wishes.
S1ncere,
The military does provide a benefit I cannot get by just simply being a civilian nurse, money fro tuition repayment. I would like to travel and help people. I have not yet began the process of transition. I have everything I need to begin, but have yet to find a great time to do so. I have been in school for 7 years getting two degrees. Not much time for anything else.
Quote from: K8 on November 09, 2009, 06:02:21 PM
Brady,
I spent 24 years in the military. I was married to two different women who both knew I was a cross-dresser. I had to repress a lot of it, but I was good at doing that. (Now I'm paying the price, trying to peel all that off, but that's another story.)
I wasn't in the Air Force but was stationed with AF for a while. I think as a nurse you would have a little more leeway than otherwise (being in the medical field and an officer), but you would have to be very discreet if you date women. You would not be able to date any enlisted person – male or female. It can be kind of a crap shoot because you just have to run into one real a$$h01e who finds out too much to ruin everything. I've heard of pogroms in the nursing corps (bunch of lesbians, doncha know?), but that may be a thing of the past.
It will help you to be well-liked and exceedingly competent, but I saw several gay men cashiered even though they were 4.0 (highest rating). I also knew a couple that had to keep their dating secret until one of them got out because she was an officer and he a senior enlisted. (But I knew they were dating, as did several others.)
Serving in the armed forces can be very rewarding. It can also drive you crazy because of how much of yourself you have to suppress.
Good luck to you, whatever you decide.
- Kate
Kate,
Thanks for responding. I have heard from many and the advice is either don't do it cause you will have to hide everything or do it and you will be fine. It is sad I am having to debate the decision because of something like this. The lifestyle I think I could adjust too. From what I understand, being in the health professions in the air force is a little different than being in another branch. I am not afraid of discipline or hard work. As I have said in previous posts, I am not afraid of being deployed. If I sign up, then that is what I am signing up for, there is nothing to complain about. If I can join and not completely close myself off or not date, i think I will be fine.
Quote from: lisagurl on November 09, 2009, 07:10:22 PM
Can you pass a very detailed physical exam? I doubt they will accept you as a male. They also will not accept you if you are taking hormones. There are many closet lesbians in the military. The Military takes away most of your liberty. You might want to consider other government programs that pay your schooling loans like teaching or the Americorps. http://www.americorps.gov/ (http://www.americorps.gov/)
I can pass a physical exam. But thanks for thinking I couldn't!! lol I am not on hormones yet. I can start whenever I feel I am ready, but have not reached that point yet. I have considered the peace corp, but they do fairly thorough mental health examinations. Also, they really do not pay well for what you give. I will look into americorps though thank you
The idea of having something in common with a Centurion kind of made me think, but yes, I can agree. Interesting concept. The thing is though as our empire crumbles values like national service, honor, and even duty are taking a back seat to "what's in it for me". The evolution of the high tech military is a delusion, the kids on the ground being shot are still overwhelmingly the children of the lower class trying to escape, and with military service not
looking like much of an escape at the moment, along with that decline in values, of course they are going to sweeten the deal.
It sounds to me you are seriously thinking about your future and going into the military seems like it would be a good idea to help get you back on your feet and have a great resume to start with when you get out. I was in the Navy myself. 3 years isn't that long when you compare it to your whole life. I wish you luck in whatever you decided. Please update us!
The "mind control" is to get an individual to work in a group and to operate for the benefit of the group first, and you the individual second. That's needed in combat and in many other situations you find yourself in when part of the military. In our modern American culture it can be a difficult adjustment for some. But is very far from forcing Groupthink. We were always encouraged to use our native intelligence and think for ourselves, but think of our comrades before ourselves.
I saw my years in the military as a form of community service. There were benefits and hardships, just as in many professions. Being a nurse or a fire fighter or law enforcement officer or something else are forms of community service. I seemed to fit into the service (after some adjustment :P).
The military is a separate culture. Those who haven't experienced it often have no real understanding of it. (Sound familiar, all you TGs?)
I'm not sure about the Centurians, but yes, it was important that we all were on the same page and were committed to our task. There is a way of doing that while retaining your individual identity but it often takes a little while to learn how.
Just an old retired warrior/sailor lady,
Kate
We might as well face it Kate we are Gay Centurions 2.0
Oh god that's still tickling me a day later :D
About the dating part...as an AF officer, you will have a lot more leeway than enlisted personnel. They generally have much better housing and can live off base. You also generally get left alone more as long as you do your job...meaning everyone isn't checking up on you all the time. You can get away with dating women as long as you're discreet about it and don't make it well known. Some people will probably figure it out, but I'm pretty sure unless they have "proof" of your homosexuality or a direct admission from you, they can't discharge you for it. I'm pretty sure that's how it works in AF, someone correct me if I'm wrong. So, I'm just trying to say, don't NOT go in if dating is your only concern. If you think you can adapt to military life, go back into the "woman" closet for 3 more years, and date discreetly, you sound like you'll be fine. It's a big decision though.
--Konnor
Its a hard choice no matter your lifestyle. There are good and bad things to the military just like any job. Only you can decide which out weighs the other. I understand the want to get your college paid off. The guy that works for me came into the military for just that reason. If you can adapt to what is asked of you for three years than its worth the time to me.
Re dating, who knows, BO might actually get rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell and have the military actually openly accept homosexual. Yeah, I know you think of yourself as a straight male, but having the military openly accept transsexual might be one hope too many yet. :(
I did a stint in the Army for a couple years. They do not apreciate or respect people outside of the norm. It was hell for me. The overiding idea of my buddys seemed to be that I was a wimp so I needed to be toughened up. Any atypical behaivor is met with critisim and outright hostility.
You will have to stay very deep in the closet to not attract attention. I personaly do not think the militarty is a good option for a TG person. But that is my opinion bassed on my service time, you experiance will not necsearaliy be mine.
Quote from: tekla on November 10, 2009, 12:38:41 AM
You don't go into the military because you want a better job when you get out, or because you need money for college, or because you think it will help you grow up, or straighten you out, or any other outside reason. You go in because you want to serve your nation by subjecting yourself to that nation's military culture which though evil by nature is necessary for the very existence of the state.
Good soldiers know that from the get go and it makes a whole lot of it hella easier to get through. Some of what people above has said is kinda close to the truth. But in reality none of it comes close because the military is a separate culture, one that relies on itself, one that is pretty much closed to outsiders (the military sees the entire world as military or not - solider or civilian, to them its the only distinction worth noting). Military life is traditional, with roots going back to Greece and Rome. Weapons change, sort of, nations and states and empires come and go, military life really doesn't change all that much in time or space. Being a solider in the American Military is much closer to being a Russian solider, than either solider is to being a civilian, and both share a culture where that reality has always been pretty much true. They would understand the rhythm and nature of the Roman Legions more than they would that of Rome itself.
And no matter if you are a nurse, a chaplain, a med-tech, or a clerk typist, you are a solider first and foremost, everything else comes second to that. If you don't want to be a solider, and end up - as often happens to soldiers - in a war where people you don't know are trying to kill you, as you try to kill them you might want to rethink. We are waging two different wars, and neither seems to working its way to an ending any time soon. So its something to think about.
People talk a lot about the kind of mind control, and there is some retraining, but most of the the mind control is in the form of groupthink on the part of the officer corps. The guy who fixes jeeps in the motor pool doesn't have to be 'sold' on the mission or the strategy or tactics, all he has to do is fix the vehicles. But the officers have to all be on the same page. And there is - this is the culture deal working - a real stress placed on getting everyone on the same page and keeping them there.
All the military officers I knew and taught were constantly among the best and brightest students and people I've ever known. They are as a class, highly educated, extremely motivated, and personally driven people. They also share another common characteristic, they believe 100% without waiver or doubt in what they are doing.
You must have been teaching Marines or Army.
My experience in the Air Force was 180 degrees opposite of what you just said. To all of it.
Quote from: Squishy on November 10, 2009, 08:11:06 PM
Its a hard choice no matter your lifestyle. There are good and bad things to the military just like any job. Only you can decide which out weighs the other. I understand the want to get your college paid off. The guy that works for me came into the military for just that reason. If you can adapt to what is asked of you for three years than its worth the time to me.
Is murdering people the good part or the bad part of this job though?
The person considering this option is in the nursing field (Saving Lives). Also, the rules of engagement with the enemy are very strict for U.S. soldiers. One does not appreciate such remarks. Especially today :P
Yeah that's prolly a little too cynical, I never
murdered anyone...but we as a nation have a lot of blood on our hands. I don't think the person pulling the trigger or pushing the button is any more or less responsible than the people who benefit from their actions. Look at this link, it's a part of a speech by Maj. General Smedley Butler, given in 1933. This guy saw the rise and beginnings of the takeover of the military industrial complex firsthand, and his thoughts are fascinating.
QuoteI wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket
http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm (http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm)
No where in my post did I say I had murdered anyone? Tho if it was to save a fellow servicemembers life its good I would say. So the military is good for you doesn't mean it can't work well for others. If the overall good parts are more than the bad than join. If not don't disrespect those of us who do or have served.
Quote from: Kara-Xen on November 11, 2009, 08:49:48 PM
Is murdering people the good part or the bad part of this job though?
Only a small portion of the armed forces actually shoots at people.
The majority serve as some sort of support functions. There is clerical, medical, supply, maintenance, intel, communications, and so much more. I had to fire a weapon once every 2 years to remain qualified to carry a weapon I would never carry.
If you pay taxes or vote, you are just as responsible.
Quote from: Leslie Ann on November 13, 2009, 10:48:58 AM
I had to fire a weapon once every 2 years to remain qualified to carry a weapon
That's not actually such a comforting thing. :D
Quote from: Keroppi on November 13, 2009, 12:09:05 PM
That's not actually such a comforting thing. :D
No, no it wasn't. :laugh:
Well; in the Dutch military...
They kind of like gay males. That is, for combat things. Put a lot of men together, and at least a few will be gay, right? Put them together for a long time, and romance will raise it's head.
People in love will fight harder. (And since it's a male-dominated world.. There you go.)
If you would have a break-down due to GID problems, then the Dutch military would be forced to have you...
Treated. And they'd pay for the hormones, and, if you stay in long enough, even the surgery.
It's the law.
However: That's officer concerns. The every-day soldiers will still ruin your life. Because it's also a very macho world.