Ok, I will try to keep my story/question here sweet and short.
First a bit about me, which I believe is relevant to my question. Since very young I have had very feminine characteristic's I.E. pretty face. hair, eyelashes, wasp waist and very girly legs. Many in my family would comment or kindly remark,"he would make a very pretty girl". My sister hated me in and somewhat is still jealous. The comments never made me feel sad or happy, just somewhat indifferent, even if they where meant to hurt. Sticks and Stones LOL
I think deep within my sub conscious I knew that my looks where not the only thing that is female but so was my brain. But because of all the societal pressure's and what is expected of a young man, I suppressed the good fortune that mother nature gave me and what my mother gave me too (have many of her features) I let testosterone run its coarse. Just did not have all the info like today, just ignorant is the term Im thinking of.
Anyway a few years ago I decided I had enough of wavering and I began to start to feminize and begin to to become what I should have been in the first place. This is where my question comes in.
After approximately one year of working on my desire to be female the result's where dramatic to put it mildly. I went from 185lbs of muscle, to a soft 152 lbs. my waist went from 32" to 28" most of my feminine features came back like when I was young, only this time by my surprise I began developing breasts, now a A Cup and I started thinking more female than ever before, although this could be the dysphoria I was having. Even my feet shrank a full size and a half. One of my transgender friends said that I was making Estrogen on my own naturally. What had made me more feminine when I was younger had returned, of resurfaced. I don't really understand what was happening, but I just knew something internally was happening. I have the ability to listen to my body very well and there was something strange and very wonderfull happening.
The things I did where diet, ware a corset, laser hair removal, and most important use my mind and deeply think that Im a women just waiting to come back from obscurity once more.
So is it possible for a male to make Estrogen? or am I just plain looney, What happened, would love your comments.
Suzy
Everyone, male or female, has estrogen and testosterone. It's rare, but I can see this happening. I'm sure someone else has more information on it but I believe there are conditions where men stop producing enough testosterone to be considered 'normal' levels. There are also foods that boost testosterone and estrogen.
It could be a variety of things.
(Oh, and please note I don't mean any offence by the term 'men', I just say it to be general. :) )
no offense taken Tristen :)
Quote from: Suzy Johnson on November 11, 2009, 11:16:31 PM
Ok, I will try to keep my story/question here sweet and short.
First a bit about me, which I believe is relevant to my question. Since very young I have had very feminine characteristic's I.E. pretty face. hair, eyelashes, wasp waist and very girly legs. Many in my family would comment or kindly remark,"he would make a very pretty girl". My sister hated me in and somewhat is still jealous. The comments never made me feel sad or happy, just somewhat indifferent, even if they where meant to hurt. Sticks and Stones LOL
I think deep within my sub conscious I knew that my looks where not the only thing that is female but so was my brain. But because of all the societal pressure's and what is expected of a young man, I suppressed the good fortune that mother nature gave me and what my mother gave me too (have many of her features) I let testosterone run its coarse. Just did not have all the info like today, just ignorant is the term Im thinking of.
Anyway a few years ago I decided I had enough of wavering and I began to start to feminize and begin to to become what I should have been in the first place. This is where my question comes in.
After approximately one year of working on my desire to be female the result's where dramatic to put it mildly. I went from 185lbs of muscle, to a soft 152 lbs. my waist went from 32" to 28" most of my feminine features came back like when I was young, only this time by my surprise I began developing breasts, now a A Cup and I started thinking more female than ever before, although this could be the dysphoria I was having. Even my feet shrank a full size and a half. One of my transgender friends said that I was making Estrogen on my own naturally. What had made me more feminine when I was younger had returned, of resurfaced. I don't really understand what was happening, but I just knew something internally was happening. I have the ability to listen to my body very well and there was something strange and very wonderfull happening.
The things I did where diet, ware a corset, laser hair removal, and most important use my mind and deeply think that Im a women just waiting to come back from obscurity once more.
So is it possible for a male to make Estrogen? or am I just plain looney, What happened, would love your comments.
Suzy
You'd need some blood work done to find out what's actually going on hormone-wise. I've never heard of physiologically male bodies producing too much estrogen, if it happens I suspect it's extremely uncommon. What is not at all uncommon is for a physiologically male body to produce an abnormally low level of testosterone, which itself can induce the effects you describe.
Hormone deficiency is a bad thing though. It might be a good idea to look into getting your hormone levels checked. The good news is though that it doesn't matter as much which of the two sexually dimorphic hormones you give your body, it's just important to be within the normal ranges for one or the other. :)
Perhaps you are Intersexed?
perhaps during your diet phase you dropped the amount of protein you intook daily if thats the case t relies on this to be functional in the body so in affect your t levels would go down and if you were already producing above average estrogen then there you have it feminization w/o HRT of course if not it could also be the quality of the protein you were intaking.. ie the best kind is eggs because it has all the quality protein in the correct amounts that the human body requires in fact all other proteins are rated in quality compared to the egg. hence the reason body builders will include eggs in their morning routine to the tune of 4 egg whites to 2 whole eggs. anyrate i degress to my gym rat stage lol this can Only go well for you if you decide to include hrt in your transition.
jessica
Can your body make estrogen naturally?
I think it can a little in some cases.
My body produces progesterone naturally which is surprising. I don't ever take progesterone but reasonable levels of progesterone show up in my blood tests.
Wow, never really even considered that I could be Intersexed. I think it best I have some testing done
would really put my mind at ease because I am sitting on the fence about starting HRT.
Could it be possible then, if there are higher than normal Estrogen levels in my system, or any Estrogen at all for that matter? That I would only need the T-blocker's alone to advance my femininity
and do with out estrogen altogether, or maybe on a very light dosage after being on blocker for sometime to see how it works on its own.
We're not allowed here to discuss dosages or details about regimens, so all I can say is go to a doc, have your levels checked, and base whatever regimen you do on achieving the proper levels based on blood tests, and prescribed by your doc. That may mean taking a little of one, more of another, only one etc.....but I highly advise doing research before a doc visit, because I've found even a little bit of self education goes a long way in helping you understand that most docs are not very experienced with trans ppl and might even suggest things that may sound a little outdated or odd if you're informed.
Quote from: mija on November 12, 2009, 10:56:38 PM
We're not allowed here to discuss dosages or details about regimens, so all I can say is go to a doc, have your levels checked, and base whatever regimen you do on achieving the proper levels based on blood tests, and prescribed by your doc. That may mean taking a little of one, more of another, only one etc.....but I highly advise doing research before a doc visit, because I've found even a little bit of self education goes a long way in helping you understand that most docs are not very experienced with trans ppl and might even suggest things that may sound a little outdated or odd if you're informed.
Thank you, sounds about right!
I think that it can. Testicles can. I would assume there are other tissues that have aromatase. If testosterone is not converted to DHT it stands to reason that it would be aromatasized either
eventually
if levels are high enough, the natural endocrine reflex is to reduce some of the testosterone by converting to estradiol.
5-alpha-reductase inhibitors reportedly do raise estrogen levels and cause gynomastia. Ovarys ordinarily perform this function so not naturally, no.
Tumors can also generate a rise in estrogen levels.
Quote from: Suzy Johnson on November 11, 2009, 11:16:31 PM
Even my feet shrank a full size and a half.
heh heh heh heh
Suzy,
It's kind of complex... one possibility is that you do have some sort of a mild intersex condition. But it might not be that you are producing estrogen.
If your body has an impaired ability to produce or to process testosterone, it would give you more feminine features. We're naturally feminine until subjected to the harsh effect of testosterone.
Another possibility as Abby pointed out, is converted testosterone.
Another possibility is that you could have one (or two) oveotestes (but this would be the least likely candidate since you haven't mentioned some of the more obvious visual differences that typically occur).
As to some of the physical things - the change in foot size can be attributed to weight loss. At higher weights, the flesh of our feet spreads to better support and distribute the weight.
In terms of testing, if you feel the need, do so, but it is possible you won't find any clear answers. I would advocate, from personal experience, that if you decide to pursue HRT, choose an endocrinologist who is well versed in dealing with intersex patients. If your body is somewhere between male and female, there are additional risks associated with HRT, and you will likely require lower dosages than most to achieve the same results. (In fact, if too much progesterone is in your system your body will convert it to Testosterone counteracting your desired changes).
My final word of caution, if you pursue HRT, be prepared for the possibility that changes could come rapidly. In essence, your pump sounds like it's already primed. The glandular development which typical starts breast development has likely already occurred for you. Have contingency plans how to accelerate a transition to full time.
Good luck! Sounds like you won the trans-lottery ;)
Hi Suzy -
I can identify because I think I have a mild intersex condition as well. I have been to a couple of docs but none of them have found anything yet.
There are all kinds of intersex and other medical conditions that can lead to partial feminization. There are various genetic chromosomal stuff like XXY syndromes, and XX people with disorders that make them look XY, and various mosaic syndromes where bits and pieces of X and Y chromosomes get mixed up. There are also nasty things like pituitary tumors that can cause the body to produce estrogen. Some medications such as finasteride, Tagamet, and others are also known for breast growth as a side effect as well.
Most docs are pretty clueless, though, about intersex conditions, especially mild ones.
Thank you all so so much, I have been totally clueless thus far regarding my condition, and what could have triggered such a rapid change in my system.
Your comments are very much appreciated, I need something to go on, a starting point when I finally decide to get to a doctor.
Pheonix, I think your right, it truly feels like my little pump is primed, like all the safetys to a rocket have been released and just a push of a button with only two ounces of resistance and the sky will be mine. Happiness is winning the Trans lottery. Wow I love this site, bleesings to all.
Suzy
i think that every body react to medication in his own way, also there is psychological effect, and the last thing is that there is some kind of tumers in testicules, where the estrogen producing cells are enlarged, i was to that and i donot know is it right or wrong .
Almost all estrogen in the body starts off by being testosterone.
In natal females the majority of the testosterone that they produce is converted to estrogen by an enzyme called Aromatase in the ovaries and endometrium.
In males, with a much higher level of testosterone, typically much smaller proportion is converted within organs as diverse as the brain, the bones and indeed by adipose tissue. (fat)
Some genetic males with a condition called Aromatase excess syndrome do naturaly feminise to some extent as the high levels of Aromatase convert a lot of their testosterone to estrogen.
Affected people usually end up of below average height too as they often exerience early Epiphyseal closure.
Aromatase excess syndrome is indeed a form of intersex condition and one not often diagnosed before puberty.
Quote from: jayjay on November 13, 2009, 04:41:30 PM
There are all kinds of intersex and other medical conditions that can lead to partial feminization. There are various genetic chromosomal stuff like XXY syndromes, and XX people with disorders that make them look XY, and various mosaic syndromes where bits and pieces of X and Y chromosomes get mixed up. There are also nasty things like pituitary tumors that can cause the body to produce estrogen. Some medications such as finasteride, Tagamet, and others are also known for breast growth as a side effect as well.
suzy your story sounds a lot similar to mine...go wikipedia AIS. i can't say for sure that my condition applies to you too but perhaps like others have suggested you should go to the doc to have things checked, firstly for any tumors or cancers which can cause elevated estronge levels, then the more common intersexed conditions like xxy which a chromosomal test can find out, and if still no then do a gene check for xq11-12.
Do you eat a lot of Soy products? I think soy contains a lot of estrogen-like compounds. Certainly not enough for an average person to transition, but maybe enough to throw off the equilibrium. Residual hormones in meat and fish have also been implicated in possibly causing an earlier puberty in girls.
Yes mine does. When I had my blood tests before starting HRT my eastrogen levels where at the very top of the male range and I definatley had some feminine charactistics to my body.
One piece of advice I had some suspicions that I was intersex before I transistioned and had my hormone levels checked. Unfortunatley they only tested my testostorone levels and not eastrogen so missed my high eastrogen levels. I would make sure they check both if you go to a doctor and have things checked out.
The E produced in most males comes from the adrenal glands. The last time I had blood work done my hormone levels were in the level of genetic females & I intend to keep it there.
Randi
hormonal changes can happen, yes, and estrogen is present in both sexes. In my case, before I was on hormones, my T level was very low, and my E was high. I only ended up taking a small dose of t-blockers. My estrogen levels are pretty high, although high doesn't mean things worked faster or anything.
Even post-op (I had SRS), I still have some T in my system, but not enough to do much other than to keep me healthy. It's in normal ranges, and a little T is good. It won't make me guyish at all with a small level. LOL
My e-levels are still bouncing up in the high zone. I've gotta get them checked again, actually. I'm hoping they have leveled out some. o_0
I also had low T and high E levels before I started taking E. The Dr. said that he had seen this as the usual case in TG people. It was reassuring that there was something physical to my gender dysphoria.