I know its rare but I have read some cases of MTFs that regret transitioning, but I have never seen any information on FTMs that regret transition, or go back to living as female on purpose. Is this unheard of?
Havent heard of anybody either.
Nope. Never heard of anybody. I'd venture to say that the number of MTFs de-transitioning is high compared to us because of the social backlash they face.
I have heard of this there was a documentary on BBC 3 about Trans people and there was an MTF who had SRS and wanted to change back. But couldn't.
That is the only case I have heard of.
Jay
I'm sure there are some out there, but I think it's very, very rare. That's why doctors have us jump through so many hoops. They want to make sure we're ready and want to transition so if someone regrets it later it's harder to sue the doctors.
I heard and had the chance to talk to 2 mtf who regretted and then did it again.
Never an ftm though.
I do think it's a lot due to sociality and that ftm pass so much easier usually.
Another thing can be hormonal, testosterone affects you in one way, estrogen in another.
There are many researchs on how additional dht and testosterone make you more sure and confident of yourself, while the other way around, you can become quite really unstable. Now add on top of being unstable the social part and you can easily collapse.
That's my theory, not experimented or tested in any way.
Post Merge: November 30, 2009, 08:31:21 AM
here we go, wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_man)
Quotethere is only a small incidence of post-operative regret. Indeed, in a review of the outcome literature Pfafflin (1992) reports that less than 1% of the female-to-male transsexuals who had undergone sex reassignment had any regrets.[13] Not all transsexual men wish to undergo SRS, nor is surgery necessary for trans men to identify as male or be accepted as such by others.
Quote from: Myself on November 30, 2009, 08:29:33 AM
There are many researchs on how additional dht and testosterone make you more sure and confident of yourself, while the other way around, you can become quite really unstable.
Wait. Are you saying that HRT has made me unstable?
Yeah, I'm talking to you.
Hey! Don't turn your back on me when I'm talking to you.
Come back here! I'm not finished with you!
:laugh:
Get away from me you crazy woman!! :D
I have heard of guys stop taking T after going through changes they desired - like deeper voice and some facial hair etc. There are a few vids on youtube by such individuals.
Like everyone else never heard of someone regretting it.
Jay
There's one person on a feminist blog I read (Feministe) who transitioned back to female. That's all I've seen, but I haven't researched or anything.
Quote from: Mr. Fox on November 30, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
There's one person on a feminist blog I read (Feministe) who transitioned back to female. That's all I've seen, but I haven't researched or anything.
Ouch! that sounds really painful. voice, breast removal, facial hair. and back?!
The thought of regretting often comes to my mind. I'm not on T at this time nor have I gotten any SRS yet. What I fear the most is not being able to reproduce once I fully transition. I would be unable to produce Sperm that will impregnate a woman because I wasn't born with the desired equipment that is needed to create sperm. I don't like the idea of being "altered". I don't think I would ever get a total hysterectomy simply for that reasons alone. Sometimes you just need to go with the flow... You need to accept certain things that you don't like. You don't need to have a penis to be a man. it's all in your heart.
I don't think I will be getting bottom surgery (although I've thought about it) as well because I fear that I wont have sexual gratification due to an accidental nerve damage that occurs during surgery. Sex feeling is very important to me.
Top surgery and getting T is my first priory. If I want my tits back, I'd get silicone. it's a reversible procedure.
Transitioning is a very serious thing to do. It's not a game nor a joke. It's a privilege, not a right. It's a whole new world once you transition. I'm glad that theirs some regulations that is required to transition other wise things would be so far out of control you have patients suing their doctors and etc.
If you look at a picture of Michael Jackson before and after... you can clearly understand the reason why I'm supporting the strict regulations towards transition including general cosmetic surgery.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgonzo22.files.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F03%2Fmichael-jackson.jpg&hash=73a372763e449534d9f92b15e3af6cd1f5414a17)
Including the infamous wealthy socialist Jocelyn Wildenstein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjNjTPQVSYQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjNjTPQVSYQ#)
She paid doctors (its reported that she paid up to 4 million dollars) to make herself look gruesome. It's enough to make even leatherface look decent.
I must shield my eyes. I accidentally stumbled upon a site of bad cosmetic surgery the other day, and yet here it is again. These two will never cease to scare me.
I will never understand how someone can get themselves into a train wreck like that. One bad surgery after another.
I have never been a supporter of cosmetic surgery abuse like that. You just end up looking plastic and plain weird.
So I I understand how surgical mistakes can lead to someone regretting these decisions for the rest of their life.
I've only had one "cosmetic" surgery done. And it was to tighten a weak muscle in one of my eyes that turned inward.
Post Merge: November 30, 2009, 06:22:22 PM
I've heard of mtf regretting transition, but not of any ftm.
Except this one, my friend's friend had top surgery done and later regretted it.
yes, i have met a couple of them at a conference i used to go to. One keeps getting mistaken for a gay male. The other ended up having kids.
Both had gone through Top Surgery and Hormones.
Quote from: Matthew J. F on November 30, 2009, 11:31:11 AM
Including the infamous wealthy socialist Jocelyn Wildenstein
She paid doctors (its reported that she paid up to 4 million dollars) to make herself look gruesome. It's enough to make even leatherface look decent.
Holy sh*t that startled me! :o
What's sad is that there are people out there deformed, either at birth or another cause, who wished they had the money to have work done to appear more normal. This woman spent around 4 million to purposely look deformed.
Quote from: Mr. Fox on November 30, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
There's one person on a feminist blog I read (Feministe) who transitioned back to female. That's all I've seen, but I haven't researched or anything.
I heard of this too. She had been on T for about two years.
Quote from: Kes on November 30, 2009, 05:03:30 AM
I know its rare but I have read some cases of MTFs that regret transitioning, but I have never seen any information on FTMs that regret transition, or go back to living as female on purpose. Is this unheard of?
My room-mate used to work with this woman local to us (and still reads her LJ) and she's "ex-FTM". One of the TS women at my local group reports from the local LBQ women's community that she's encountered "disturbingly too many FTMTF people" -- she also reports that "there are far more FTMTFs than MTFTMs". Also, after one of the members of Bitch & Animal (I think the latter) started dating Susan Powter, she became convinced that "being trans" is "all about hating women" and last I heard, (about two or three years ago) had ID'd as "proudly ex-Trans". Note that none of these people had gone through GRS or any legal work beyond *maybe* a name-change. My room-mate's co-worker, though, did change her name and was on testosterone for two years before realising that she was just a woman having a crisis.
Basically, when women think they might be TS men, they either figure out long before they start HRT or go through GRS that they thought wrong, so they're not counted in any "ex-Trans" stats, because most places require one go through genital reconstruction to get a gender-marker change and therefore count as a "real transsexual" for the purposes of these surveys. So the fact that TS men are less likely to get genital recon than TS women means there are at least a fair handful of people these surveys might not even be counting.
Quote from: Matthew J. F on November 30, 2009, 11:31:11 AMIncluding the infamous wealthy socialist Jocelyn Wildenstein
Socialite. Socialists are almost never socialites.
Quote from: Myself on November 30, 2009, 10:35:15 AM
Ouch! that sounds really painful. voice, breast removal, facial hair. and back?!
She was actually pretty lucky in that for breast removal she pretty much just got lipo on her breasts because they were so small. I think they're back to about what they were before. But yeah, she had to get electrolysis and stuff, and some things never changed back.
Quote from: Matthew J. F on November 30, 2009, 11:31:11 AM
The thought of regretting often comes to my mind. I'm not on T at this time nor have I gotten any SRS yet. What I fear the most is not being able to reproduce once I fully transition. I would be unable to produce Sperm that will impregnate a woman because I wasn't born with the desired equipment that is needed to create sperm. I don't like the idea of being "altered". I don't think I would ever get a total hysterectomy simply for that reasons alone. Sometimes you just need to go with the flow... You need to accept certain things that you don't like. You don't need to have a penis to be a man. it's all in your heart.
I don't think I will be getting bottom surgery (although I've thought about it) as well because I fear that I wont have sexual gratification due to an accidental nerve damage that occurs during surgery. Sex feeling is very important to me.
Top surgery and getting T is my first priory. If I want my tits back, I'd get silicone. it's a reversible procedure.
Transitioning is a very serious thing to do. It's not a game nor a joke. It's a privilege, not a right. It's a whole new world once you transition. I'm glad that theirs some regulations that is required to transition other wise things would be so far out of control you have patients suing their doctors and etc.
I absolutely agree. I, as well, will never have a hysterectomy, unless it's medically necessary (god forbid), and don't plan on ever having bottom surgery. I should have been born with a penis, but I wasn't. I'm dealing with it. In the meantime, I'd rather not screw with what's working at the moment. The bitch tits will go, but that's it, and they're pretty hideous now anyway, after 3 years of binding.
But I don't regret any of it. I, probably like most of you, spent a very long time deliberating over whether or not to go on T. I considered and weighed all the options. It's a pretty rational process.
I've never heard of an ftm regretting transition, but plenty of mtfs. Kind of makes me wonder if the people who do detransition have some other mental problems going on.
SD
My friend knows a girl who went on t and then realized she wasnt ftm after all. I think partially the reason it happens more to mtfs though is because they may have mistaken gender identity with their sensitivty or autogynephillia. Its my worse fear that Ill regret this, but thats why we go through so much counseling before we do anything.
I dont know if ill get a hysterectomy. Its too early to think about it.
Quote from: Myself on November 30, 2009, 08:29:33 AM
I heard and had the chance to talk to 2 mtf who regretted and then did it again.
Never an ftm though.
I do think it's a lot due to sociality and that ftm pass so much easier usually.
Another thing can be hormonal, testosterone affects you in one way, estrogen in another.
There are many researchs on how additional dht and testosterone make you more sure and confident of yourself, while the other way around, you can become quite really unstable. Now add on top of being unstable the social part and you can easily collapse.
That's my theory, not experimented or tested in any way.
Post Merge: November 30, 2009, 08:31:21 AM
here we go, wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_man)
Makes sense to me, untested or not.
As for me... The reason I'm not even remotely considering HRT or GRS is because I'm still not sure exactly where I fit in the gender spectrum. Yes, I hate my body. But am I willing to make those kinds of drastic changes?
I feel like even if I do decide to make steps towards going on T or getting top surgery, that's all I'd do. The GRS options for transmen doesn't look nearly as promising as those for transwomen, either. It just looks so risky, too. Possible nerve damage? Yikes. I think I'll pass.
So hopefully, if I ever decide to really transition, I'll be sure enough about my gender identity that this won't happen to me.
Quote from: Myself on November 30, 2009, 08:29:33 AMAnother thing can be hormonal, testosterone affects you in one way, estrogen in another.
There are many researchs on how additional dht and testosterone make you more sure and confident of yourself, while the other way around, you can become quite really unstable. Now add on top of being unstable the social part and you can easily collapse.
I don't find that true at all. In some areas, yes, I'm a little more sure of who I am, but the voice change has affected my emotional state far more than I anticipated pre-HRT. As a singer, it has completely re-written who i am and what I can do, and now many things I was perfectly competent at prior, and probably still am, I find myself second guessing on because I went twenty-seven years and change with an incredibly "flexible" voice and now it's gone.
Don't misunderstand, I'm still a man, I know that much, but as far as I can tell from my own experiences, "testosterone = more sure of oneself" is just machismo and bravado and has no basis in fact. It's a practically untestable hypothesis, making it veritable hokum.
I think why you don't hear as much about ftms regretting as mtfs 1.) you don't hear about ftms as much period and 2.) women have more gender expression flexibility than men, and thus are less likely to attempt transition because of constraining social roles. There's probably other factors, but I'm not buying this whole testosterone=confidence thing.
There used to be this bloke in my support group that detransitioned. He'd already had his breasts & internal reproductive organs removed & a clitoral release. He used to say that a complete hysterectomy is a requirement for trans blokes that have been on testosterone for over 5 years or else they get ovarian cancer & cysts.
Whilst I don't doubt that people like him have other mental issues going on, detransition oftentimes happens when the person isn't in fact transsexual but something completely different like transgender or genderqueer maybe. I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.
Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
There used to be this bloke in my support group that detransitioned. He'd already had his breasts & internal reproductive organs removed & a clitoral release. He used to say that a complete hysterectomy is a requirement for trans blokes that have been on testosterone for over 5 years or else they get ovarian cancer & cysts.
Whilst I don't doubt that people like him have other mental issues going on, detransition oftentimes happens when the person isn't in fact transsexual but something completely different like transgender or genderqueer maybe. I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.
Remember -- all transsexual people are transgender, but not all transgender people are transsexual. :) "Transgender" is just more of an umbrella term. But I think I understand what you're saying -- people who are some other form of transgender.[/size]
Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
There used to be this bloke in my support group that detransitioned. He'd already had his breasts & internal reproductive organs removed & a clitoral release. He used to say that a complete hysterectomy is a requirement for trans blokes that have been on testosterone for over 5 years or else they get ovarian cancer & cysts.
Whilst I don't doubt that people like him have other mental issues going on, detransition oftentimes happens when the person isn't in fact transsexual but something completely different like transgender or genderqueer maybe. I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.
I've heard the cancer/cyst thing as well, though I can't remember where...something like its reccomended you get a hysto within 5 years of starting T? Either way, not a biggie for me....three women in my immediate family have had to have hystos for the same thing, so I'm hoping to see if I can get that covered by insurance as "pre-emptive".
While I'm not one of those that are perfectly okay with their genitalia I do understand why people (ESPECIALLY MtFs) would choose to not undergo GRS. Even among the MtFs, not all are willing to give up the sexual feeling they already have, some might not like surgery in general (my girlfriend is actually terrified of surgery; she's cis female, but still would have to be drug into an operating room kicking and screaming). People have various reasons for it...sometimes just being seen in society as female is enough to quell any gender issues they have with themselves.
Personally, I'm all for scooping out the bad innards, getting a meta (or if arm penii start actually consistently looking like penises and not fleshy bratwursts, a phallo) and getting the hole closed up for good.
Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
He used to say that a complete hysterectomy is a requirement for trans blokes that have been on testosterone for over 5 years or else they get ovarian cancer & cysts.
Yep that's what my endo said 2. he gave me alot of info. I'd been on T for 4 yrs b4 I got my hysto last month.
if u've been on T for a long time, best thing's 2 talk 2 ur endo 'bout this.
theres also this: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=94097 (http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=94097)
or u can join the yahoo groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/adultconf?dest=%2Fgroup%2Fftmsurgeryinfo%2F (http://groups.yahoo.com/adultconf?dest=%2Fgroup%2Fftmsurgeryinfo%2F)
Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
Whilst I don't doubt that people like him have other mental issues going on, detransition oftentimes happens when the person isn't in fact transsexual but something completely different like transgender or genderqueer maybe. I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.
This is why they've got to have a medical diagnosis of trannsexualism & not just "believe" they're transsexual. These kinds of problems happen when they "rush into things" without knowing if they're in fact transsexual or they "wanna try things' without knowing about the consequences about the effects of testosterone. Hopefully they're seeing a reputable gender specialist that doesn't only want their money but their wellbeing too.
Quote from: Christian >.> on December 04, 2009, 09:46:06 PM...(or if arm penii ...
It's penises. "penii" isn't even vaguely correct mock-Latin.
Sorry, pet peeve.
Quote from: Yvonne on December 05, 2009, 03:03:22 AMThis is why they've got to have a medical diagnosis of trannsexualism & not just "believe" they're transsexual. These kinds of problems happen when they "rush into things" without knowing if they're in fact transsexual or they "wanna try things' without knowing about the consequences about the effects of testosterone. Hopefully they're seeing a reputable gender specialist that doesn't only want their money but their wellbeing too.
Unfortunately, I'm betting that most people who've actually transitioned don't meet any kind of currently-established medical criteria. How many TS persons on this entire forum have had chromosomal or DNA analysis? How many have had a
pre-HRT EEG or similar brainwave scan to compare to cisgender persons? How many have had a hormonal baseline that actually revealed "abnormally high" pre-HRT counts of testosterone (or oestrogen)? How many people here, in-transition or total post-Genital Op have substantially more than intuition?
Sorry, neither chromosomes or hormone levels or even EEG can tell you if you are transsexual.
The first two could tell you if you are intersexed.
There are no real medical criteria for transsexualism except how you feel.
Quote from: Renate on December 05, 2009, 09:49:38 PMSorry, neither chromosomes or hormone levels or even EEG can tell you if you are transsexual.
The first two could tell you if you are intersexed.
There are no real medical criteria for transsexualism except how you feel.
Also true, mostly. This is why I simply cannot advocate re-classifying transsexualism as a "physical issue" rather than a "mental/emotional issue".
Of course, i say "mostly" because an EEG scan, pre-HRT,
may be able give "male" results for FTM transsexuals and "female" results for MTF transsexuals -- it measures brainwave patterns, not hormones or chromosomes. EEG studies have produced distinct results showing that bipolar and schizotypal persons, for example, have truly different brainwave patterns from those who are not; unfortunately, the studies with TS/TG persons are practically embryonic -- there just haven't been enough pre-HRT TS persons willing to take part in these studies to produce anything conclusive, so EEG results for TS persons is pure hypothesis at this point.
The only reason we know is "because we know". That said, first person to bring up Fibromyalgia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibromyalgia) will get dealt a heaping hand of Fail. While there is a general consensus on
diagnosis of GID/TS from the psychiatric community (though hardly a consensus on treatment), the the medical associations
don't have one Fibro-, so obviously biomedical types
aren't content to just know that you "know" you're in pain to diagnose. EEG studies have shown that people with Fibromyalgia have a clear difference from those without, but all that proves is that the brain is registering as being in chronic pain, it doesn't show what's causing it.
To the degree that people regret this - any more than any people regret anything and everything else in life - depends on one or both of two factors:
a) expectations that are not realistic and hence, not achieved
b) changing realities, so that what you expected is actually not there anymore
Quote from: Pia on December 04, 2009, 05:23:54 PM
I have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.
Have your doubts all you like, but I take some offense at the implication that I'm not transgendered because I don't want what's already working to be messed with.
QuoteI have my doubts & strong reservations about people who are supposedly "transsexual" but enjoy what they've got between their legs & don't want any kind of GRS.
Sometimes I wonder about my transsexualism because I'm relatively competent and able to keep my ->-bleeped-<- together and maintain a healthy GPA and employment and a happy social circle and be active sexually. Since it seems that if you polled the internet, those are traits that people in pre/early transition are not capable of possessing.
Some people are more stable than others. Some people are more realistic than others. Some people make better decisions than others. I'm pretty sure I'll have SRS eventually. When I can afford it, which is going to be a long, long time from now. So why sit around weeping into the pillow about something I can't change for the better part of a decade probably? Missing the present waiting for the future just breeds more misery.
Quote
Unfortunately, I'm betting that most people who've actually transitioned don't meet any kind of currently-established medical criteria. How many TS persons on this entire forum have had chromosomal or DNA analysis? How many have had a pre-HRT EEG or similar brainwave scan to compare to cisgender persons? How many have had a hormonal baseline that actually revealed "abnormally high" pre-HRT counts of testosterone (or oestrogen)? How many people here, in-transition or total post-Genital Op have substantially more than intuition?
Perhaps if transsexualism was actually classified as a physical issue, we could actually receive the care and testing required to properly diagnose it so that it could be legitimately treated. We appreciate your advocacy.
Personally, my estrogen almost tested outside of male range prior to HRT. The thing is that science really doesn't understand hormone levels for transsexuals very well. As well as what affect the body and brain has 'coping' with such a situation for a prolonged period.
I also didn't have the thousands of dollars to get brain scans done.
Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMSometimes I wonder about my transsexualism because I'm relatively competent and able to keep my ->-bleeped-<- together and maintain a healthy GPA and employment and a happy social circle and be active sexually. Since it seems that if you polled the internet, those are traits that people in pre/early transition are not capable of possessing.
Some people are more stable than others. Some people are more realistic than others. Some people make better decisions than others. I'm pretty sure I'll have SRS eventually. When I can afford it, which is going to be a long, long time from now. So why sit around weeping into the pillow about something I can't change for the better part of a decade probably? Missing the present waiting for the future just breeds more misery.
Then there's the fact that TS men don't really have the most functional or aestheticly pleasing genital recon options (not to say MTF GRS always end up great, just typically better).
Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMPerhaps if transsexualism was actually classified as a physical issue, we could actually receive the care and testing required to properly diagnose it so that it could be legitimately treated. We appreciate your advocacy.
That's not an issue that even re-classifying as "a physical issue" would fix. Many people with fibro don't get proper care because there's "no physical reason for it". It's the standards of care that need to change -- thanks for having the cognitive abilities to see the lacking care in the U$ as the complex issue it is. After all, TS persons in Scandinavia, the UK, and Canada have the DSM to diagnose by, yet proper care is a non-issue because we're afforded proper care in those countries.
Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMPersonally, my estrogen almost tested outside of male range prior to HRT.
Good for you. That's still not really proof of anything.
Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMThe thing is that science really doesn't understand hormone levels for transsexuals very well.
Science still doesn't completely understand DNA very well, either. Again, you're not proving anything.
Quote from: Autumn on December 06, 2009, 02:45:30 PMI also didn't have the thousands of dollars to get brain scans done.
Most insurance, including Medicare, will cover almost every procedure that can be used to diagnose a condition. Granted, this is not something that an EEG is authorised to diagnose in most areas, but if you can find a research unit, it won't cost you anything. Nice cop-out, though; I was wondering how long it would take.
Autumn can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain she wasn't attempting to justify anything. I'm so sick of people saying "you're not a transsexual if this or that" and acting all holier-than-thou. People do what they believe is right for themselves. We don't all fit some perfect template. And we don't need to have medical tests run to show us we're right about who we are.
By the way, many of us (myself included) are quite poverty-stricken but do not qualify for medicare. Information is a good thing.
SD
Sometimes I wonder about my transsexualism because I'm relatively competent and able to keep my ->-bleeped-<- together and maintain a healthy GPA and employment and a happy social circle and be active sexually. Since it seems that if you polled the internet, those are traits that people in pre/early transition are not capable of possessing.
Perhaps if you polled the net only, I think in RL far more TS persons are like you then like many of the ones we read about here. Lynn Conway maintains pages and pages of people who kept high GPAs, were successful in work, and in their social lives. So often GID becomes either a cop out, or it is existing with lots of other problems, many of which transition does not solve. There are many people in here who did the same. People who are highly social, working in real (as opposed to marginal) jobs, who have social lives, a few of which have even created - or helped create - social groups, who have and maintain intimate relationships, all that stuff. So while often you might not read about it, it is existing. People are not just coping, but flourishing.
for whoever said he has doubts about people who choose to keep what they have in between their legs.
I'd maybe have doubts, but only in the female section.
Thing is, the female surgery is pretty great, even my gynecologist tells me that he saw people back from suporn and it's just "AMAZING".
But in the case of the guy? I can understand not wanting a surgery to stick something which looks far close from the real thing, barely works and who knows how it feels.. That's just silly.
The confusing thing is that you might see messages "I have something that's working, I don't want to mess with it.", personally, it sounds like something that would give you doubts - until you remember that their surgery would leave them as sexually disabled men instead of.. I dunno, sexually different but functional men.
Quote from: Sebastien on December 06, 2009, 05:07:09 PM
Autumn can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain she wasn't attempting to justify anything. I'm so sick of people saying "you're not a transsexual if this or that" and acting all holier-than-thou. People do what they believe is right for themselves. We don't all fit some perfect template. And we don't need to have medical tests run to show us we're right about who we are.
Well, see, you've simply paraphrased what I've been saying. Testing is unnecessary -- my intent is clear. Personally? I have nothing biomedically proven to "back up" my intuition, and I can't stand it when people start making wild and highly unlikely claims that "being TS is a completely physical condition" -- if that were true, there would be physical symptoms; instead, the only symptom is the patient's intuition.
I'll even go so far as to saying that TS persons who insist "it's completely physical" are ableist [expletive, deleted]s who think that mental conditions make a person inferior. On the contrary, some of history's greatest minds and talents were also somehow mentally disordered.
Quote from: Nero on November 30, 2009, 05:13:42 AM
Nope. Never heard of anybody. I'd venture to say that the number of MTFs de-transitioning is high compared to us because of the social backlash they face.
Yessum. NERO YOU AREn'T AN INSANE ROMAN EMPEROR!
Or a Romulan bent on destroying Vulcan...
You're a smart and sensible dude... hahaaha
Quote from: Myself on December 06, 2009, 10:56:21 PM
for whoever said he has doubts about people who choose to keep what they have in between their legs.
I'd maybe have doubts, but only in the female section.
Thing is, the female surgery is pretty great, even my gynecologist tells me that he saw people back from suporn and it's just "AMAZING".
But in the case of the guy? I can understand not wanting a surgery to stick something which looks far close from the real thing, barely works and who knows how it feels.. That's just silly.
The confusing thing is that you might see messages "I have something that's working, I don't want to mess with it.", personally, it sounds like something that would give you doubts - until you remember that their surgery would leave them as sexually disabled men instead of.. I dunno, sexually different but functional men.
There are many reasons a person may not want to make surgical alterations to their body, even TS/TG persons.
I know, for example, that alternative musician Sopor Aeternus / Anna-Varney Cantodea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopor_Aeternus) has stated in the occasional interview that she has refused surgery for spiritual reasons (all published photos where she appears "nude" are photo-manips); of course, she's also strongly implied that she's celibate, so maybe this further legitimises her choice to some people.