How much editing of your past do you do?
I was at a formal dinner last night and most of my dinner companions didn't know I am TS. I found I could tell my stories, like how I came to move here and what I used to do for a living, by editing as I went along. For instance, I mentioned my daughter but not her biological mother. I never lied (I'm really lousy at lying), but I never mentioned having a wife.
So much of our life history is gendered – more as we get older. Have you worked up a history that doesn't out you? Or do you just avoid talking about your past? Or do you just play it by ear as you go along? Or?
- Kate
When in stealth I used to edit skilfully, now I just play things by ear, but as the past 28 years has been spent in female role it really no longer crops up that often.
Since I started over at transition at the age of 24, there wasn't much history to edit. Over the first few years and coming to understand myself (how stereotypically female I was) the context of most of the childhood memories had changed to the female perspective - no "lie" but seeing the same thing from a different vantage point.
Quote from: Northern Jane on December 07, 2009, 12:15:42 PM
Since I started over at transition at the age of 24, there wasn't much history to edit. Over the first few years and coming to understand myself (how stereotypically female I was) the context of most of the childhood memories had changed to the female perspective - no "lie" but seeing the same thing from a different vantage point.
I am not stealth, but I alter my past. Ex are just exes, not ex-wives. Pronouns are changed, but I tell the truth for the most part.
Hugs and Love
Janet
The question of the ages eh? In the end I couldn't justify editing my past with those whom I desired closer relationships with. I also couldn't handle the emotional toil having this majorly important yet wonderful secret that I couldn't share. I was only 19 at the time and had a strong desire to be totally authentic in my relationships, but I had been told countless horror stories by other older, wiser, TS who made it clear to me that it was preferable to be stealth than to be out. In hindsight I believe they might only have said that because they themselves had never had the opportunity to be stealth - a grass is always greener kind of thing.
What past?
Seriously, I barely have one to edit, which in itself is suspicious. ::)
I do some light editing, such as referring to exes with different pronouns. But I'm decently open about being bisexual, much moreso than about being trans...so I don't have to do a lot of editing.
I don't talk about it a great deal. When I do, I do some light modification as I go along. My pronouns get changed, ex becomes friend and (on the occasions they keep the ex status) just lose pronouns entirely.
Then again - I'm only 25, never been married, no kids and only ever had one relationship.... there's not exactly a lot of gendered history! Everything I do is male dominatied, and the vast majority of my friends are male. Most of the time I don't have to change a thing.
I am stealth at work and the editing is hard at times. There are some gender specific things about my past I do not know how to change. For instance I was in the Marines all female Marines go to Paris Island, males go to San Diego if they are from the west coast (which I am) and males from the east coast go to Paris Island. I work with a lot of older guys who were in the military and probably know this. So do I change where I went to boot camp (would take a lot of lying and that is hard for me) or out myself just a pain...
Andrew Myles
It's called the Buddy Plan Andrew. He was on the East Coast and you are from the West, you did not care.
Sorry, I seem to step where I shouldn't.
Hugs and Love
Janet
Thanks Janet I think I will go with that. What is hysterical is they all think I am a gay man so they will just think I went there with my boyfriend. The moment I mention my "wife" they all look at me like they are looking at a three eyed monster. Interesting group at the Portland Ikea.
Andrew
Parris Island holds such mystique, respect and infamy that I wouldn't be worried about. People are more likely to be impressed. I don't think anyone but other Marines are going to know or remember that routing thing, and I was even like "oh yeah, that's right".
The way I see it, I was always a girl. Society brainwashed me into thinking otherwise (and a terrible job they did of it, too ^_^).
When I think of something from when I was younger, I remember the 'girl' feeling. I just didn't have words to explain it until a little while later. It makes it easier to edit, because it doesn't really seem like editing.
"how old were you when you got your first period?"
"how did your mom decide to tell you about the birds and the bees?"
"what was your first boyfriend like?"
"where did you end up with stretch marks?"
"don't you think transsexuals are really gross - they look like men in dresses"
I won't go on. It depresses me a little remembering moments when I was asked questions like these.
No matter how much you have been a girl in your mind and heart your whole life, it doesn't change the fact you grew up differently and therefore have to do some strategic editing (deceit) if you are to answer the questions like the ones above and still leave the person asking the question with the impression you were always a female. Now I realize the questions above COULD all be answered without disclosing your transsexual status but not for everyone. I am not making a moral judgment on the deceit we use when editing our pasts, but it can be harder on some than others.
Quote from: Luna! on December 07, 2009, 11:26:03 PM
The way I see it, I was always a girl. Society brainwashed me into thinking otherwise (and a terrible job they did of it, too ^_^).
When I think of something from when I was younger, I remember the 'girl' feeling. I just didn't have words to explain it until a little while later. It makes it easier to edit, because it doesn't really seem like editing.
This, but substitute "boy" for "girl."
When I was quite young, I still thought of myself as like the other boys. That feeling persisted till I was sufficiently brainwashed. So when I was small, I was a boy. When I got older...well, I occasionally say "when I was a little boy" and that feels right; but when I recall my teenage years, I think of myself as trying very hard to fit in as a girl. My body was changing. I had long hair. I wore girls' clothing (no choice because of my mother). I lived a very rich and full fantasy life in which I was male, but my physical reality was nothing like that. So I never refer to gender when I talk about my teenage years.
Pretransition, I used to edit pronouns when I referred to my exes, but I don't anymore. I'm gay. Most of my relationships have been with men. I've had sexual encounters with maybe half a dozen women and was for two years in a three-way relationship with a woman and a man. I don't hide these facts.
Occasionally, to people who don't know about my trans status, I find myself about to make a remark about pronouns or T or some kind of gender-specific experience. I wind up not saying anything.
Keeping my status from my men's discussion group is rather painful and sometimes causes me to hold my tongue about some events or experiences. But at this point I would find it more painful to divulge.
I usually tell the straight truth but not every little detail. The men fill in the rest with their assumptions. Considering that I have always had a male identification, even when I was trying hard to assimilate (resistance ISN'T futile), and considering that I spent many waking hours living as a boy in my head, I usually don't think that it's dishonest to let these men assume that I've always lived as male. I certainly wasn't a girl back when I was a kid!
I'm not ready to tell them about my origins. Maybe I never will, although I think I would find it trying to keep such a secret in the long run. Sometimes I have this mad idea that I'll wake up normal one morning and won't have to say anything at all.
Right now, I'm just enjoying the refreshing change of being one of the guys in real life and not just in my head. It's a huge relief and oh so wonderful to REALLY be a gay man among gay men. Now, if only I could root out these reservations...
I was pulled out of school at 5th grade and lived on the internet til I went to community college, and continued living on the internet until I began slowly transitioning my image a few years ago.
I really honest to god have almost no stories from my childhood or teenage years that are not about everquest. I honestly feel like the better part of a decade of my life just vanished completely with no trace and I regret that so much time passed so empty.
But it leaves me with little to edit. "I got romantically involved irl with a girl from the internet when neither of us expected it, at all" well of course, most women don't randomly fall into lesbian affairs...
I have used 'ex' instead of 'ex girlfriend' since generally girlfriend/boyfriend status is not attributed to most of my relations. I have switched 'ex girlfriend' to 'a friend' or 'a girlfriend of mine' if I'm passing with the person and am referencing something not about the relationship. It's fun since when a MTF says girlfriend, the person could think hetero relationship, a lesbian relationship, or a straight woman and her friend. Who knows which one they think? Roll the dice.
But, right before one of my finals today I identified myself as bi to the few people in the class when someone finally asked and when he was surprised I shrugged and said "F--- it, I'm almost 24, who cares?" which really is the attitude I'm developing outside of work, since I've mostly avoided sexuality and being bi there, despite various rumors and harassment. Hell I'd never been with a guy til I worked there for over a year anyway.
It's funny how that worked out, 16 weeks of those folks sitting behind me with the professor calling me by my male name and calling me he and them not figuring out what was going on, even talking behind my back about my boobs. Then it all makes sense when I admit to being bi and having mostly been with girls - clearly I'm just that butch :D. It was nice to be sent off with a 'she' and 'her.'
Yes, depending on the situation. I never married, but the love of my life was another man. I don't consider myself gay and am primarily into women, so sometimes I edit the pronoun. I just feel like my bisexuality isn't relevant, so no need to advertise it.
Quote from: interalia on December 08, 2009, 01:28:51 AM
"how old were you when you got your first period?"
"how did your mom decide to tell you about the birds and the bees?"
"what was your first boyfriend like?"
"where did you end up with stretch marks?"
"don't you think transsexuals are really gross - they look like men in dresses"
I won't go on. It depresses me a little remembering moments when I was asked questions like these.
No matter how much you have been a girl in your mind and heart your whole life, it doesn't change the fact you grew up differently and therefore have to do some strategic editing (deceit) if you are to answer the questions like the ones above and still leave the person asking the question with the impression you were always a female. Now I realize the questions above COULD all be answered without disclosing your transsexual status but not for everyone. I am not making a moral judgment on the deceit we use when editing our pasts, but it can be harder on some than others.
A great post - all questions I have really faced so worth while thinking about what you would say - here are some of my real life answers. All of them are 100% true too so proving what Interalia says. They can be answered truthfully if you are lucky.
But whether or not you can answer truthfully it is a very useful exercise to think through what kind of thing you might say in those situations because you really don't want to have to make something up, which you later regret, on the spur of the moment.
"how old were you when you got your first period?"Sadly I can't have periods because of a medical condition.
(and if they ask what I can now truthfully say I'm intersex PAIS although before my diagnosis I used to have to either say "unfortunately I'm sterile, so I had to take Pills to make me develop" or that I was trans. Either way I usually got an apology for the unitended intrusion and some sympathy.)
"how did your mom decide to tell you about the birds and the bees?"She gave me a wonderful book to read and told me that when I had read it she would be happy to talk about it. I was about ten and the book was aimed at young children. I can't recall the title but it was awesome.
"what was your first boyfriend like?"His name was Robert M........ it was summer 1972 we were both twelve. He had blonde hair and blue eyes and when he smiled he looked like an angel. Sadly he behaved like a devil though into everything naughty and forbidden so we didn't last very long because my mother thought he was a bad influence.
"where did you end up with stretch marks?"Oh I was lucky - I didn't have to go through all that. We adopted S....
"don't you think transsexuals are really gross - they look like men in dresses"I really think we should have a bit of compassion here. Just imagine how you would feel if all your life you had been condemned to always see a stranger when you looked in the mirror. To always wonder if that friend would still want to know you if they knew what you really felt like inside? It would be a torture. So on the contrary I think they are very brave.
I say this always expecting to be asked
"you aren't trans yourself are you?" but the reality is it has only ever happened once and when it did I just said Yes I am! The person opposite paused said
"You know I never would have guessed that." and then we carried on almost as if nothing had ever happened. I did get asked a few questions later though, but we remained friends and the guy in question went on to really change his attitude.
yah that'll be interesting for me.
I realized a little while ago that I couldn't mention that I'm an Eagle Scout anymore hah
I was in a tank battalion and have five years sea duty, neither of which I talk about much. The problem for me comes with the fact that I was married for a total of 33 years to two different women. That's half my life – the most recent half. I don't necessarily refer to my spouse, but a lot of things happened during that time that may come up in social conversation. I found that I just edited out the partner – "when I" rather than "when we".
I automatically think of my two spouses as "she". The death of my second wife – my partner of 22 years – almost came up last weekend because it was relevant and recent. I just need to think some more on how to handle that. (It isn't a problem for me to have a long-term lesbian relationship with my second partner. I'm just not there in my thinking yet.)
The bigger problem for me is referring to my daughter's other mom. I haven't figured out our relationship now that I'm Kate. (She hasn't either. She asked me how she should refer to me. She has no problems with being thought lesbian, but it just doesn't fit the circumstances somehow.)
My close girlfriends – the ones I might discuss stretch marks or periods with – all know I am transsexual. But I'm still early in my transition. Also, I am in my sixties, so maybe my cohort has all moved on to discussions of grandchildren, arthritis and cruises to Campeche. :)
- Kate
Quote"how old were you when you got your first period?"
"how did your mom decide to tell you about the birds and the bees?"
"what was your first boyfriend like?"
"where did you end up with stretch marks?"
"don't you think transsexuals are really gross - they look like men in dresses"
1) Yeah I'd probably go with the birth defect thing. Which would probably get a response of "you are SOOOOO LUCKY", because that's what my GG friends tell me as is. When nurses ask me when my last period was I tell them I don't have ovaries and they either shrug, or ask me when my hysterectomy was. "No, I was born without them."
2) I just started asking her about sex at a very young age and she told me what she felt was appropriate at the times.
3) The vast majority of my partners have been girls, I haven't had an official boyfriend yet.
4) Inner thighs, god DAMNIT.
5) So far I haven't been asked this directly and I just keep quiet in these conversations for pragmatist's sake.
Quote from: Matilda on December 09, 2009, 03:47:29 AM
Oh and one more thing *giggles* ;D...it's funny but after all these years and all the conversations I've had with my female friends, no one has ever asked me "how old I was when I had my first period" or "what kind of feminine pads I use" or "how come women's urine stream sounds differently than men's" or about my "carrying angle" . Sorry to say (and laugh ;D) but I have only heard those types of conversations/insinuations/allusions HERE on a TRANS site.
I've never heard apparent cisgenders talking about pee streams or anything like that, but I've been asked about menstrual stuff a number of times, and I've had no reason to suspect that the questioners were anything but cisgender females. They were usually people I knew quite well. The queries were always polite and came up when the person was talking about herself. Pregnancy/abortion has come up a couple of times. Feminine protection has come up a bunch of times, too many to count. Menopausal symptoms, a couple of times. I was always able to be matter-of-fact about it all until my coping mechanisms started to break down.
Frankly, I'm surprised that you've never once encountered such questions! That strikes me as odd. But perhaps my experience has not been typical.
I've encountered those type of questions when thrown in with a bunch of women.
I just lied, even in the past, because I couldn't handle answering them truthfully. Questions like that just made me sick (when aimed at myself - other people talking about it doesn't have the same effect). I had no idea how to deal with that.
It's a relief not to deal with that anymore.
Though I did recently have to deal with someone cheekily pointing out that I have very small feet.... and what that generally denotes :laugh:.
I just edit and avoid pronouns if possible.
Ex becomes just that, my ex, without pronouns. I talk about when I was a kid, because most of the stuff I did was cool kid stuff (I was a tomboy). I just filter to avoid gender stuff.
Gonna be interesting next week. I'm going to visit an old college buddy I haven't seen in 25 years. He knows of my transition and has been nothing but supportive. I'm hoping he doesn't mess the pronouns up. I sure look NOTHING like the person he knew then, and don't look remotely anything close to female at this time. We shall see. :)
Jay
I personally am not going to have an issue editing my past. Pronouns will change mostly, but I was the Artist, Drama kid in HS. All my work history can still be told from my point of view.
The thing that struck me recently is no one knows who I really am, so I would rather move forward being my self and forging a new story rather then continue to live this lie that I currently am living now.
I just let people assume I'm a lesbian. My wife and I don't particularly label ourselves that way as I have not always physically been female, but it works for other people. If someone doesn't know that I used to be a man, I don't make a point of correcting them. But I'll talk about girlfriends in college, or my wife. I also never did stereotypical boy things-- I was never in the military, and I never played football-- so there's not much for me to edit.
I just tend to only bring up things at appropriate moments, and some things only around certain people -- like my Prom Horror.
But since the feminist movement, little girls are now given more gender liberty than boys, so much of my past really isn't that "gendered" -- think about it, how many people here honestly believe that female-identified tomboys are somehow perverse, or that little girls "shouldn't be" into science or dinosaurs. If I'm being read as "man", then my Science Genius Girl past doesn't seem weird, I just leave out pronouns and the rare gendered comment my parents actually got about it; if I'm being read as "woman", people will simply think my parents were awesome for encouraging me and breaking outdated stereotypes.
So, yeah, i don't "edit" much, but I'm sure that's easier for me than it is for most TS women.
...and when I do pass as "man", I tend to get read as "flamer", so saying things like "my first boyfriend" just gets responses of "woah, you're parents were cool with that?" To which I can honestly say "yes, they were". This may seem contradictory when considering some of the other stories i have about my family, but I figure most people assume I was just using shorthand for "well... my parents weren't surprised, let's put it that way". And ex-boyfriends of my adulthood don't surprise anybody. If anything, it may surprise people I meet if I were to edit these bits to reverse genders, or they may silently be inserting "boyfriend" when I say "ex".