Hi all, I am a new user here. A little about myself: I have felt transgendered for most of my life. I remember as a small child wanting to try on my sister's clothing, and I did a little cross-dressing as a teen, but it really only extended to furtively buying pantyhose and wearing them underneath my clothes. Back in the 1980's, when I was growing up, there just weren't resources, and I just thought I was sick in the head for being obsessed about wanting to be a girl. I'm not homosexual, i.e. I have no sexual interest in men; and I have been living quite happily as a man most of my life. It's not like I hate my penis or can't stand being a man. And yet, whenever I see an attractive woman, my reaction isn't that I want to have sex with her, but rather that I really, really want to BE her. I crave being a woman so much, it's painful sometimes.
Back in 2000 I went through a little exploration and did some therapy, told my closest friends and family about my "little secret", and decided to go down the rabbit hole a bit to see what I would find. So I bought myself a full set of women's clothing, and did a lot of reading, and attended a few sessions of the local group. In the end, I decided that I was ok staying a man, thinking that I was now more relieved that I had simply gotten this stuff out in the open a bit more. I never went out in public, however, dressed as a woman. The problem is that I think I would have a very tough time passing as female - I'm six foot tall, and just don't really look very feminine. So I felt better after my exploration, but just kind of put the whole thing back on the shelf, thinking "Ok, I explored it, I have both male and female aspects and that's fine, and it's too late for me to be a girl, I am a man and that's about it".
So I got married in 2002, and I told her very early on about the whole transgender thing. Amazingly enough, she was ok with it. I've never dressed up in front of her, though, for me it's a very private thing still. While we did have sex early on in the relationship, it petered off pretty quickly, and we never do it now. I just find myself not at all interested. I've never been able to climax during intercourse, I just don't seem to be able to get sufficient stimulation from it. We've talked about it, and she's fine with the situation, she tells me she really doesn't mind at all. We generally have a very good relationship, and I'm very grateful that we seem to be able to be very open with each other.
I've wondered if I'm actually kind of asexual, since I'm definitely not gay (I've looked at that as openly as possible, I just don't find men attractive), I find women attractive, but as I said it's not that I want to screw them (as a normal guy would) but rather that I want to be like them. I'm not just talking about the dressing, I mean the fuller, more female butt, the breasts, that wonderful figure they get with the broader hips and the slimmer waist. I want to be like that, not just dress like it.
Fast forward to today, I find the trans feelings re-emerging. They've been somewhat dormant for a long time. I even got rid of the clothing, thinking that I had sussed out what was going on, and was ok with my compromise. But it's not leaving me alone.
Here's the thing: I think there are perhaps different motivations and desires behind different people's transgender feelings. I was interested by one description that split us into two groups - I forget exactly how it was put, but something like "behaves female" and "wants to be female". I know I am the latter. I have never been interested in parading around in women's clothing or dolling myself up in a very fancy way. For me, the real fantasy is actually just being female. The only way I can arouse myself during sex is to imagine I am the woman; and for masturbation, I have to imagine that I am somehow being forced to become a woman. This is a consistent theme; the fantasy is that I am compelled to go from being a man, to becoming a woman.
While the cross dressing is certainly titillating, I find it ultimately unsatisfying, since I know that underneath all the clothing, I am still male. So the thoughts of full transition come back to haunt me, even though I'm 42 and don't look anything like a woman.
What I'm afraid of is that I don't want to live the rest of my life looking like a freak. I'm sorry, I hope this isn't offensive to anybody here, I'm just being honest. It's not that I doubt my desire to be female, just that I don't want every waking moment spent out in the world to be about people staring at me and laughing at me because I'm obviously a man with boobs and wearing a dress. For me, the desire is to "just be", completely (i.e. in body, not just in dress), not to parade it around for the benefit of others. But obviously part of the process of transition would involve presenting as a woman for a period of time before "they" will let you progress along the path of hormones and surgery etc. I know there are procedures that can "feminize" a face and even the voice, but I have my doubts how effective all this would be for me. Also, my hair is very thin now, especially on top (it's not receding, it's just always been really thin), and I honestly don't know if I could even grow it out now.
Also, I find myself wondering if I'm really transexual, or just a man with a weird sexual fetish (i.e. fantasising about being female). If this is the case, then I'm in trouble, because the process of becoming female will take away the means to satisfy that urge! I'm not saying I'm all that attached to my penis, I'm really not. I know that deep down, I want to be a woman. But I also know deep down that I'm not a "woman trapped inside a man's body" - this is honestly just me, really preferring the idea of me as a woman. It just feels right somehow, and something that is driving me at a very fundamental level. It is also freaking me out to find myself considering all this again, given how I thought I'd pretty much come to terms with it 8 years ago.
Sorry for the humungous post, I hope I'm not offending anybody by saying this stuff...
Thanks for reading.
can you get to a reputable therapist to help you decide what you are? There are lots about now compared to years ago.
Ask around to find one.
Then tell him/her just like it is and decide if what they tell you makes sense about yourself and how your life should progress.
+1 on going to a gender therapist.
While personally I'm very traditional and only see myself trying to fit nicely into society notions of discrete binary sexes, the reality is that it's a continuum. There's more to just flat chest & penis verses boobs & vagina. Maybe you will be more comfortable somewhere in the middle. No surgery, but some feminization of the body etc.
Thank you for the very honest and detailed look into your situation.
A lot of it rings very true to me as I'm now in my 40's and thought all this stuff would go away, but instead it's stronger than ever before. I just wish and pray I can become a beautiful female and it is very similar to me that when I quietly cross-dress I don't see what I would like to see at all and it is very confronting and somewhat upsetting. What has made me feel a lot more contented is removing all my body hair and going to the gym and working very hard on my physique. In fact it was only last night that a female friend of mine noted how defined and feminine my legs were. I was rapped, I must say!
Your feelings about your sexual orientation and even your inability to climax is remarkably similar to me. The only thing I have realized is because my brain is female it has to be the right mood and with the right person to be sexually satisfied. I now approach sex differently knowing this. The other issue of sexual orientation was very succinctly explained in an answer to one of my earlier post asking the same question. What she said made a lot of sense and was a kind of relief, that is until you sort out who you are and are comfortable with that you won't really know. In other words, for fear of sounding whimsical, I don't know if I'm Arthur or Marther :P
Regardless of our similarities and some obvious differences, we both need to see a gender therapist of some sort. I am just aching to tell all to somebody that will listen, not judge and understand. I have found this forum to be of enormous benefit. It is, believe it or not, the first time I have ever shared my secrets with anybody and that in itself has been very therapeutic.
Alexie
Thanks for the advice. I have looked in the online directories for gender-specific therapists, and there don't appear to be any within a few hundred miles of where we currently live, unfortunately. I used to live in a large metropolitan city and it was easy finding one there. We had some good sessions (this was back in 2000) and at the end, she complimented me on the amount of progress I appeared to have made in coming to terms with my "condition".
I don't think I would want to exist in some in-between state. I would much prefer to either remain in my default state as a man, or else go whole hog into the transition, complete with hormones and surgery. I think I can definitely say with confidence that if I had that option, with the knowledge that I would be able to do it properly (i.e. all necessary surgery and training to make myself look and sound as normal as possible as a woman) then I would do it without hesitation. I've been living with this long enough that I'm very certain of this aspect of myself now. Barring magic genies or winning the lotto, I would probably need quite a bit more money than I have at the moment in order to do that properly. Simply continuing with cross-dressing seems very empty and sort of futile to me now, sort of like a street that doesn't really go anywhere.
Anyway, thanks again.
Greetings and welcome to Susan's!
I think that one of the hardest things about this is the isolation. For so many years i thought I was the only one who ever felt like this. With the information and online communities available today, I know how laughable that sounds to the younger folks. But it is so true.
So much of what you said and so much of your feelings very much mirror not just mine, but many others on Susan's. You are among friends here. Relax.
Many of us also find this condition to be rather cyclical. But each time it comes around, it seems to get stronger. So do not be surprised by that either.
You have been given some good advice. Perhaps you should call your former counselor and ask if she could recommend someone to you. But also just spend some time here reading other peoples' stories and seeing how much (and sometimes how little) we all have in common. This storm can be rough. I hope you find here a convenient spot to cast your anchor.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Thanks, Kristi and everyone else. I will do more research to find out where the nearest therapist is, and lurk here a lot more. Please disregard the somewhat creepy looking guy standing in the corner, he's harmless really!
Ha.....I Knew I would always look like a guy in a Dress, or pant suit anyway. Needless to say, change happens. Ok some need a little facial surgery, but For me anyway, this is the face I was born with, but on E. So don't use the "I'll look like a guy with Boob's think. to hold you back. It does take time and the change is soooo slow but it does happen. Though it does vary from person to person.
Best of luck how ever you deal with it.
Beni
I live in Eureka, California, and there don't appear to be any transgender-specific therapists in the near vacinity, at least not in any of the online directories I've been scanning. I don't know the area very well, since we just moved here recently. I'm not even sure if there are any transgender support groups, though that would surprise me somewhat, since Arcata is nearby and that's a very college/liberal hippy type of place where I would expect there to be at least a few transgender people hanging out. Can anybody give me any tips as to how to find out what resources are available around here? How do you find a transgender-knowledgeable therapist - just call around and ask?
And what do you do if there simply isn't anything?
Thanks in advance...
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 08, 2009, 06:14:24 PM
I live in Eureka, California, and there don't appear to be any transgender-specific therapists in the near vacinity, at least not in any of the online directories I've been scanning. I don't know the area very well, since we just moved here recently. I'm not even sure if there are any transgender support groups, though that would surprise me somewhat, since Arcata is nearby and that's a very college/liberal hippy type of place where I would expect there to be at least a few transgender people hanging out. Can anybody give me any tips as to how to find out what resources are available around here? How do you find a transgender-knowledgeable therapist - just call around and ask?
And what do you do if there simply isn't anything?
Thanks in advance...
there's always online therapy.
Meow,
Hi, what a small, small world! I live just north of you by about ten miles! I and my wife see a local therapist who, though not a "gender" specific therapist, she is quite wonderful and understanding as well as helpful. She would be glad to see you, I know for sure! And, there actually is one gender therapist here locally too, I can give you her name as well.
I'd be glad to give their names to you. If you have a yahoo messanger account my user name is dawnd1257. Message me and I'll get that info for you. As well, let me tell you, you are not alone in our local community. You might be surprised at how many of us there are here (must be something in the fog here, lol). We have a local support group that meets infrequently but, still enough to be of great aid to all of us.
If you'd like to know more just message me! To use the PM system here I think you have have like 15 posts or more. One of the admins can give you a better idea on that. Anyway, so glad you found us here and remember we are closer than you might think!
Dawn
Hi Meow, :icon_wave:
Welcome to our little family. Over 3700 strong. That would be one heck of a family reunion.
Feel free to post your successes/failures, Hopes/dreams. Ask questions and seek answers. Give and receive advice.
But remember we are family here, your family now. And it is always nice to have another sister. :icon_hug:
And be sure to check out
- Site Terms of Service and rules to live by (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)
- Standard Terms and Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html)
- Post Ranks (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.)
I totally understand how Cross dressing doesn't do it for you. I also cross dressed but found it lacking. Then it hit me that it was lacking because I wasn't cross dressing, but dressing in my true gender.
As for the therapist. listen to Nero. He uses an on-line therapist and is doing great. Just a little plug for my little Brother. ;)
Blessed Be.
Janet
Dawn, thanks very much - I got your private message, and I will definitely look up the two therapists you mentioned. I don't know if I'm ready to dive into group sessions yet. I'm a little perturbed right now because my wife is not quite as ok with all this as I thought. She says it would be very weird to be living with me as a woman, and if it went that far then she might want to go find someone else, since she wants to live with a man. Very understandable, and very sad, because I feel like this is something I need to work through, but I am also realizing that if I do work through it, then I may lose my marriage because of it. I love my wife, but she may simply not be able to deal with this type of huge change, and I can't say I blame her one bit. It's a bit of an issue, but we're saying we'll just play it by ear for now.
Today I decided to go buy some women's clothing - I dumped the old stuff I had a few months ago, after carting it around in a tub for 8 years I thought I was pretty much done with it. Famous last words. I've been through this before, buying stuff, so it wasn't quite the mortifying experience it was the first time around. I walked my wife to work as usual, then I just very calmly and deliberately walked into Walgreens and purchased a number of pairs of the L'eggs pantyhose, then walked over to the mall to look at clothes. I was too early, but Kohls was open, so I politely asked one of the assistants if she would mind helping me pick out a set of women's clothing, me being clueless about sizes etc. She was really helpful and found me a dress, skirt, and some tops. The shoes was a problem - nobody around here seems to have any women's shoes in size 11 wide (duh). So when I got home I went online and found a couple of sites that seem to cater to that, and ordered a couple of pairs of pumps. I felt pretty weird doing this, again, after so many years when I thought I was pretty much over it. But I need to work it out, and this is the start... next I need to find out about these therapists and go from there.
I also ordered a Braun epilator from Amazon to help me get rid of unwanted hair. We'll see how that goes, it sounds painful, but apparently gets better.
Thanks again for the help, it's much appreciated. I'll be on the road for the next couple of days, so may not be posting here much.
Meow.
Therapy shmeraphy, and all that for what, so that we can finally understand what we feel in the first place! We are lost in the world we barely seem to understand, perhaps we are not suppose to understand it but just go with the flow. Gut feeling so to speak, never failed me! I respect all ladies here and advice given, it is cautious and proper and by all means appropriate, it may even solve some situations, however, your post struck me in the face like a brick, or better, ton of bricks. It is my story as well inch by inch, minute by minute, dumping of clothes, getting arid of past, feeling good about being back on straight track just to feel depression and femininity swell over my sole and suffocate, male me, again and again. I am 42 and finally come to conclusion that it ain't going away, besides, it feels so good to be ME this way that I don't want to be me for others but me for ME. I am not sure who the heck I am, I might never know, but I am who I feel, so there. I started my transition from inside out, You write that either you remain where you are at or go for it all, sounds like libra to me because I was that way to, no compromise, no prisoners. Guess what, has anything ever happened to you in your life which was just Black or just White. It's all shades of gray after all. Accepting of who you feel is you is the truth. Don't listen to others pointing finger at you with words of wisdom(my own included) don't look in the mirror for it is only what others have made you believe its you. Look inside your sole and you find the course.I am sorry for being passionate about this post but it is also my life which had been painful at times :icon_tears: and it shouldn't have. :icon_female: Love, Alexia.
Hi Meow - I live in the same city as you. Dawn is right, it is a way small world and getting smaller all the time. I remember the feelings that I would always stick out. Strangely enough, after several years of just being me and on HRT, I don't feel that way anymore. Guess I just got used to it. I'm sure most people clock me as trans. They just don't seem to care for the most part.
We do have several therapists in the area that experienced with transgender people. One I know is a gender specialist - I sent her name by PM to you.
Clothes - I swear some day I am going to open a shop that caters to trans women's needs, lol. Try the Avenue for larger size shoes. Works for me (Thanks for the tip, Dawn).
As for transition, remember that there is no one way or a "right" way. While there are similarities, for the most part we each find our own way to where we want/need to be in our respective lives. I live mine very out and as an activist. I sit on two local boards, a state-wide board, and help run our local support group. My life certainly isn't for everybody. Your life is a journey. I wish you well on your journey and we are here if you ever want to talk or get together.
Cheers, Love & Light, Karin
Take it from one who made the mistake of hiding my true female self for many years, it won't go away and it will get much worse if you are truly transgendered. You need to spend some serious time with an experenced gender therapist. If you are female inside it is not going to help by trying to live as a male because you are afraid you won't pass. Modern surgery is amazing by the way. I know it is tough but there is a lot of support out there these days.
Pam
Meow, you would be surprised at how unbelievably common your story is. Rather than try to gather all of my relevant thoughts in one mass, I'll take your post bit-by-bit, if I may.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PMAnd yet, whenever I see an attractive woman, my reaction isn't that I want to have sex with her, but rather that I really, really want to BE her. I crave being a woman so much, it's painful sometimes.
This was EXACTLY me for the longest time. Actually, your whole paragraph described me very accurately.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PM"Ok, I explored it, I have both male and female aspects and that's fine, and it's too late for me to be a girl, I am a man and that's about it".
You would be so surprised at how many people have assumed that they're just too old to transition. Let me put your fears to rest: it is NEVER too late. Although hormone replacement certainly has a more dramatic and instant effect on people younger than 30, you're going to get something out of them regardless.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PMSo I got married in 2002, and I told her very early on about the whole transgender thing. Amazingly enough, she was ok with it. I've never dressed up in front of her, though, for me it's a very private thing still. While we did have sex early on in the relationship, it petered off pretty quickly, and we never do it now. I just find myself not at all interested. I've never been able to climax during intercourse, I just don't seem to be able to get sufficient stimulation from it. We've talked about it, and she's fine with the situation, she tells me she really doesn't mind at all. We generally have a very good relationship, and I'm very grateful that we seem to be able to be very open with each other.
You're a very lucky girl to have someone in your life so understanding of you. Never forget that.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PMI've wondered if I'm actually kind of asexual, since I'm definitely not gay (I've looked at that as openly as possible, I just don't find men attractive), I find women attractive, but as I said it's not that I want to screw them (as a normal guy would) but rather that I want to be like them. I'm not just talking about the dressing, I mean the fuller, more female butt, the breasts, that wonderful figure they get with the broader hips and the slimmer waist. I want to be like that, not just dress like it.
Although gender identity has nothing to do with sexuality, transitioning can help clarify some of your sexual feelings to you.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PMFast forward to today, I find the trans feelings re-emerging. They've been somewhat dormant for a long time. I even got rid of the clothing, thinking that I had sussed out what was going on, and was ok with my compromise. But it's not leaving me alone.
Okay, this right here is the single most noteworthy part of your post. One thing I've found about being transgendered... it will NOT go away. For better or for worse, if you're TG, it's a part of you and always will be. The only "cure" for ->-bleeped-<- is transitioning, because I remember before I started to transition (and eve when I had a couple of false starts) that I thought perhaps maybe I could live my life as a male with no trouble. There would be long expanses of time in which I felt like I could keep myself from trying to become female. The desire was there, but I could ignore it.
But let me tell you without any hesitation: if you ignore these feelings, they will ALWAYS come back double... and you'll find yourself right back where you started, only a little bit older to boot.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PMHere's the thing: I think there are perhaps different motivations and desires behind different people's transgender feelings. I was interested by one description that split us into two groups - I forget exactly how it was put, but something like "behaves female" and "wants to be female". I know I am the latter.
There are indeed a lot of different levels of ->-bleeped-<-. There are people that are just genderqueer, androgynous, ->-bleeped-<-s, she-males, etc... the list goes on and on.
However, although I know someone just can't come out of the gate and disgnose you with something, on an off-the-record level, I am absolutely positive that your are fully transgendered.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PMThe only way I can arouse myself during sex is to imagine I am the woman; and for masturbation, I have to imagine that I am somehow being forced to become a woman. This is a consistent theme; the fantasy is that I am compelled to go from being a man, to becoming a woman.
This was absolutely, positively, 100% the case for me. Down to the letter.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PMWhat I'm afraid of is that I don't want to live the rest of my life looking like a freak. I'm sorry, I hope this isn't offensive to anybody here, I'm just being honest. It's not that I doubt my desire to be female, just that I don't want every waking moment spent out in the world to be about people staring at me and laughing at me because I'm obviously a man with boobs and wearing a dress. For me, the desire is to "just be", completely (i.e. in body, not just in dress), not to parade it around for the benefit of others. But obviously part of the process of transition would involve presenting as a woman for a period of time before "they" will let you progress along the path of hormones and surgery etc. I know there are procedures that can "feminize" a face and even the voice, but I have my doubts how effective all this would be for me. Also, my hair is very thin now, especially on top (it's not receding, it's just always been really thin), and I honestly don't know if I could even grow it out now.
This is a worry that you will always have, I'm afraid. Between you, me, and the walls, I have to say that there ARE quite a few transgendered people whose appearance makes me uncomfortable. Some people are flawlessly passable right out of the gate. Others take a long time to even remotely appear as the gender of their choice. I'm not going to sit here and tell you any different.
What you have to decide for yourself is how much that means to you. Remember that we're ALL a little vain about our appearance. No one wants to look hideous or laughable. I know I struggle with that day in and day out. However, if you're going to be mortified into hiding yourself forever, what sort of life do you intend to live?
There are ways to regrow hair. Estrogen often helps with that. And in the meantime, you can always find a feminine hairpiece that will look nice on your in the meantime. Just be sure you don't skimp on the cash for one of those things. You don't want to end up wishing you'd gone out with a mop on your head instead.
You're actually at an advantage when it comes to vocal training. An MtF can more often than not train their voice to raise to lower-middle female pitches and inflections with relatively little trouble, while FtMs often have an extremely difficult time with the process. There are places tha can help you with vocal training, or you can practice it on your own.
I should set your mind at ease about one thing, since it was something that worried me for awhile, too: once you start speaking in female ranges regularly, your voice WILL settle in that vocal range, and you won't have to try to maintain the sound. It'll just happen.
To reiterate, every single one of us has gone through the "Guy in a dress" worry. ALL of us. I don't care if it's someone that's been ma'amed their entirely life before transitioning. Let me give you an example:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=64677 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=64677)
The TC posted a picture of herself in the third post. Yet, she was actually WORRIED about her appearance!
HER! I'd have an unbelievably hard time picturing her as anything BUT a female. Yet she was still concerned about her appearance.
I won't tell you to not care what people think. That's just stupid. But what I
will tell you is to not be cowed into living the way you don't want to live because you're worried about what someone MIGHT think.
I'll even go as far as to say this: you probably WILL get clocked at least a couple of times. Even if your appearance and voice are dead-on from the start, there are hundreds of subtle mannerisms that are trained into you as part of being a "functional male." These are so subtle you barely even realize you're doing them. Everything from your posture, to the way you walk, to the way you hold things... these have all got to be retrained, in all likelihood, and might never be 100% accurate.
To put it another way, picture living life as a female the same way you'd picture learning a new language. There are very subtle accents and phrases that you might not understand or might not realize you're missing at first even if the vocabulary is dead-on. And while you might not always speak it without a little bit of an accent, you can easily become understood and come to the point where no one notices.
Believe me, hardly a day goes by when I don't think "Why can't I just be fully female NOW!?" or "I'm not feminizing quickly enough at all. I still look too male." But transitioning is a PROCESS it DOES take time. The best way to handle it is to start as soon as you can and just go for it.
Quote from: Firelight on December 11, 2009, 10:28:26 PM
Meow, you would be surprised at how unbelievably common your story is. Rather than try to gather all of my relevant thoughts in one mass, I'll take your post bit-by-bit, if I may.
Snip...
Although gender identity has nothing to do with sexuality, transitioning can help clarify some of your sexual feelings to you.
Okay, this right here is the single most noteworthy part of your post. One thing I've found about being transgendered... it will NOT go away. For better or for worse, if you're TG, it's a part of you and always will be. The only "cure" for ->-bleeped-<- is transitioning, because I remember before I started to transition (and eve when I had a couple of false starts) that I thought perhaps maybe I could live my life as a male with no trouble. There would be long expanses of time in which I felt like I could keep myself from trying to become female. The desire was there, but I could ignore it.
But let me tell you without any hesitation: if you ignore these feelings, they will ALWAYS come back double... and you'll find yourself right back where you started, only a little bit older to boot.
Snip...
Wow, wow, wow Firelight and Meow!
I am so happy I joined this forum. You both managed to put into words exactly the way I feel and have felt. I am so relieved to realize I am not alone. About the only difference to the story is I never married, but at least you confided in someone. I have spent my whole life bottling up a series of secrets, and it's been killing me on the inside. I have become a very good actor and most people see me as extravert and bubbly. The fact is, the way I feel on the inside, I couldn't care if I died tomorrow. It's when I realized that, I decided I do need counseling.
I have just been watching "Ma vie en rose" and every step of the way it starts to eat me up. I start to remember feelings I had thought were long gone, as if it were today. That scene in the dressing room where he didn't want to undress in front of the other boys and got ganged up on was exactly what happened to me!
Meow, you are absolutely definitely not alone. Thank you once again, so much for putting your thoughts into words. It has been like lifting an enormous weight off my shoulder.
Love Alexie.
Thanks all for the kind replies. I've been on the road, but am back home now. Dawn, I did send you an email after your first PM, but it looks like maybe you didn't receive it? Perhaps check your spam folder, or I will try again over the weekend. Also a couple of other very wonderful private messages from others here too, thanks again. I will certainly be following up, please forgive me for not being so quick - this has all blown up rather suddenly again, and I'm kind of flummoxed as to how to proceed. I know I said in the original post that my wife was ok with all this, but now I don't think so. I believe she is/was ok with the concept of me being simply a cross-dresser, she saw that as something relatively harmless and actually kind of cute. Maybe also she felt subconsciously that it was something that could be safely compartmentalized. But now I have mentioned an actual desire to perhaps transition to living as a woman, I sense a bit of distance starting to grow between us. I can completely understand why, to be honest it would be a little weird for me too if she suddenly up and told me she was going to start living as a man. I think our marriage would be in real jeopardy if I choose to pursue this. So I'm stuck between this deep, deep desire to live as a woman, and my marriage. Although our marriage is perhaps not the traditional make-love-three-times-weekly American dream, we do have our little world that is just ours, and I love her in my own way - enough that I ache to think of throwing it all away. So kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place there.
I've been thinking about this whole "transexual" thing, and what it would mean for me to transition. So I do the hormones, and say I get all the necessary surgery to make myself look more feminine, and lop off the old penis and make a nice new vagina for myself. Does this make me a woman? Or just a mutilated man? It's an interesting question. I think, though, that I would characterise it differently:
We all, consciously or subconsciously, live our lives by playing roles. I'm talking about everybody, not just us here in transgenderland. Walk down any street, and you can see at a glance the role that people have chosen for themselves, and they work to make themselves fit into that. You have the Power Businessman, the American Mom, the Hippy, the Goth, the Athletic Person, the Intellectual, the Nonconformist, the Motorcycle Dude, etc etc, ad infinitum, and combinations too. Those aren't very good examples, but hopefully you get the idea - we are all playing roles that we have decided at some level are what and who we want to be. So perhaps the way to look at transition is not so much trying to convince ourselves that we have suddenly changed sex, as us simply choosing to adopt a different role, and adapting our costume accordingly. So with transition, I believe that after all the surgery I would probably still be "me" underneath, the me who wants to be female, but if I go in thinking that afterward I'll suddenly be magically transformed at all levels into a woman, then I might be a little disappointed. But if I view it more as a change of costume, a change of role, then it makes more sense. I won't "be" a woman in the genetic sense, but I will be living as a woman, and I'll be able to play that role in as full and immersed a way as possible, even to the point (hopefully) of eventually forgetting that I am anything else and just becoming completely submerged in it - and isn't that the most important aspect? Living that role, that major gender role, which most people never even dream of changing, this is our challenge, our destiny to ponder.
Me, personally, I would love it if I could simply disappear into the female gender. I don't want to think of myself as transgendered, I just want to be female. If I wind up making a lot of money, then you bet I will be searching out the very best surgeons to see what they can do with me. If I could make myself look halfway convincing as a woman, then I really think I would just do it. The compulsion is so deep there inside me.
I'd like to bring up something else that may be a little hard to talk about. Oh well, here goes: When I dress up as a woman, usually it ends with me masturbating to some elaborate fantasy about me being turned into a woman. Obviously actually being dressed like a woman while doing this helps the fantasy along. I have noticed recently, before all of this blew up again, my masturbation sessions were getting a little, well, stale. But when I got back to the pantyhose, I noticed a real perk up in the stimulation factor. Now here's the big doubt: Immediately after climax, the urges to be female go away, it's like they are just drained away completely for a few minutes. They always come back, usually very quickly, but this makes me wonder if the sexual component, and the fact that the desire to be female fades temporarily, throws any doubt on the possibility that I might be bona fide transexual, rather than just someone with a particular kind of sexual fetish. It's actually kind of paradoxical, because the fantasy involves becoming something which, if the fantasy were to be followed through in real life, would result in the expression of the fantasy itself being severely curtailed.
I think of this a little bit like New York City (where I used to live). I was always struck by how you could best appreciate the beauty of the city by viewing it from afar, across the water, somewhere like Jersey City perhaps, where you could see the whole of downtown glittering like a jewel. But when you are in the city itself, you are too close and can't really appreciate the whole. So what I'm getting at is that you need to be separate from a thing in order to appreciate it; if you become the thing, then you cannot appreciate it in the same way. So when I fantasise about being female, it is from the perspective of a male thinking about the other way of being, i.e. female. If I were to actually transition over to being female, would the grass still be as green? It's just a philosophical question, sorry, I think too much. I'm a programmer, what can I do.
To be clear, I do think that I actually desire to be female at a very deep level. The fact that this is also hooked into my sexual fantasies may or may not be significant, I don't know. What I do know is that if someone offered me a magic button to change into a female right now, and there was no going back, and I would look and be in every way a woman, then I would push that button without hesitation. What does that say?
I'm definitely going to follow up with the PMs, please give me some time, and I'll also definitely be seeking out one of the local therapists that have been mentioned. Thanks again! And I hope I'm not offending anybody with my ramblings - I'm not trying to define anything in an absolute way, this is just me pondering this rather interesting condition.
Meow
p.s. One more thing: I don't think I am gay, like I said previously I just am not attracted to men. However... I think that when I imagine myself as a woman, then I could possibly start finding men attractive - but only in the sense that this would help to contribute to solidifying my identity as a total woman. Does that make any sense? Does this make me secretly gay at some level? I mean, I imagine myself turning into a woman, and then having sex with a man, it is kind of titillating, but also a little disturbing since I find the thought of having sex with a man - as me NOW, kind of repulsive. Ok, I'm a sick puppy.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 12, 2009, 01:35:17 AMI don't think I am gay, like I said previously I just am not attracted to men. However... I think that when I imagine myself as a woman, then I could possibly start finding men attractive - but only in the sense that this would help to contribute to solidifying my identity as a total woman. Does that make any sense?
Absolutely. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this was very much the case for me, as well. IS the case, as a matter of fact. Before beginning my transition, I was pretty sure that I only found females attractive sexually. However as time went on, I started allowing myself to consider the possibility of being with men a little bit more and more.
I still find females attractive for sure, but I have to admit... now when I dream of being proposed to, I picture it being a man doing the proposing.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 12, 2009, 01:35:17 AMI Does this make me secretly gay at some level?
Actually, it kind of makes you secretly STRAIGHT. Remember that you are considering yourself female. The accepted terminology for transgender sexuality is that of the target gender. Therefore, if you're an MtF that likes guys, you're straight, and if you're an MtF that likes girls, you're gay. It might seem odd at first, but believe me, it makes perfect sense once you begin to become serious about transitioning.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 12, 2009, 01:35:17 AMI I mean, I imagine myself turning into a woman, and then having sex with a man, it is kind of titillating, but also a little disturbing since I find the thought of having sex with a man - as me NOW, kind of repulsive. Ok, I'm a sick puppy.
Once again, you hit the nail on the head. As a guy, I had almost NO pleasure from sex whatsoever. I could "go through the motions" with no problem, for sure, but I just didn't like the sensation, and felt uncomfortable being touched. As a girl, I'm feeling more and more comfortable with the idea of becoming romantically and sexually involved with someone, although some reservations are still there for the moment.
What is so interesting about this discussion is how similar our fears and feelings are. We all worry about passing, am I gay, am I really a woman and so on. Understand if you really are transgendered you are a woman even though you were born with the wrong private parts; and it won't go away. Therapy and HRT helped me accept my womanhood and rid me of shame and guilt. It is OK to be transgendered! One of my liberating moments came when I was clothes shopping and the sales lady asked me if the clothes were for my wife. I said no they were for me as I was transgendered and was transitioning to womanhood. She smiled and said good for you and I will be glad to help you pick out the best things for you. I hardly ever think about my maleness as HRT has been wonderful physically and emotionally. I even dream as a woman. By the way I never thought about men before transition and yes I am attracted to men now and have thoroughly enjoyed being intimate as a woman. Good luck; it is a difficult journey but if you are transgendered it is worth it.
Pam
Hi again, as I read your reflections and yes, I am also one who feels you as well speak for me, I can see quite clearly that for most of us TGs going all the way seems to be a pinnacle of the desire to obtain femininity so craved for a lifetime. I also start to understand through your description, that perhaps some of us are meant to be just in between and not like a crossdresser who for a moment enjoys the reflection in the mirror almost as though a secondary self, but entirely in-between self, not male and not female just mostly feminine being with some of masculine traces. Ask your self a question, that if you were given an opportunity to be transformed into fully genetic female in an instant however the result would be rather mediocre perhaps less than average woman, slightly overweight, not attractive by any standard with all of the female conditions, periods, bloating etc., would you still do it? I believe that if the answer is YES, as I know lots of girls here would say yes, than you truly are female in male disguise, but if the answer is NO I believe we are the in-betweens who for a lifetime new we are different, more feminine, for whom female figures did fit much better than what we have bin given. But also the lifetime of day dreaming about being a woman created a monster, sculpted out of bits and pieces of desire to become feminine perfection where all our imaginative dreams finally come to be. I am sorry about all my ifs and maybes, I am thinking out loud. I have left an emotional post reply here before and admit to be a little hormonal in it, out of the respect to all the girls here who tool quite some knowledge, I do believe too that good knowledgeable therapist would be recommended but doubt weather this sort of criteria is well understood.
Always with Love, Alexia. :icon_bunch:
I was a little surprised by how easily I was able to go buy women's clothing again, without much embarrassment at all. I think my first stint of therapy back in 1999/2000 helped me get over that. Now I find myself just not caring much if people know. Well, I don't think that's entirely accurate - I run a community website, and I think I'm not ready to publish this to the whole world just yet. But walking into a store and asking for help picking out women's clothing, eh, not such a big deal now. I think what happened was that I had a kind of epiphany that it's just so much easier living the truth rather than living the lie. So being truthful no matter the feared consequences is probably the best course in the long run. Everything just gets easier. I guess I will have to come out eventually to my website users if I do continue down the path of transition, but I have a bit of a plan for that - I'm in the process of expanding the site into other topics, and I'm sure that one of those will be about transgender issues. Sorry if this is not something I should talk about - I'm not trying to promote anything, this is just what I do, I'm a website developer (I want to emphasise that I'm not plugging myself to look for work - I don't do contract stuff any more, for the last few years it's just been me working on developing my own site). It doesn't make much money at the moment - it is my main thing, and enables me to work from home, but the site does bring in voluntary donations that certainly help with the rent. My big plan is to expand the site and make a lot more money. I've been running it for about 10 years now, and it's been getting a bit stale of late, but the funny thing is that this transgender resurgence is providing me with more motivation to finally get it all finished and ready for primetime, because if I do transition then I think it'll take money, and lots of it, to do it properly (for me - others may be lucky, but it'll take quite a bit to make me look feminine, trust me!).
Another funny thing: I've noticed that I am more motivated now to lose weight. I'm not obese, but I am 30 lbs overweight (200, should be more like 170 or so). I have a belly which disgusts me now that I look at myself in a skirt or dress, and I find the top of the pantyhose wants to roll itself down because of the fat. Yuck. Too much time spent in front of the computer, not enough on the bicycle! It's easier to ignore that type of thing when you're just being a guy and don't really care about a bit of a gut. But now I find I am actually looking at myself in the mirror, and I don't like what I see. So that's motivation! I have started running (the c25k program, "couch to 5k"), and I am rowing more every day (I have a Concept 2 rower, which has gone grossly underused since I bought it two years ago). In the last week I have seen my weight go below 200 lbs for the first time in a while - probably mostly water loss, but it's a start! And like I said, I find myself actually wanting to do it, thinking about how I look in the mirror, so that's a good thing.
Another thought: I used to work out at the gym a lot more before I got married. I was in really excellent shape, I particularly loved aerobics. I think my motivation back then was to "get the girl". I was still a virgin when I got married at the age of 35, I'd never had a girlfriend because I was too shy to ask them out, and just generally too passive about the whole thing. But anyway, I believe a lot of the motivation was to make myself fit and lean to "get the girl". So once you get married, you've basically got the girl, and that deflates quite a bit of the motivation there! At least, that's my intuition about what happens. Once the goal of a mate is attained, then you don't have to try so hard any more. Anyway, I'm wondering if this latest surge in motivation is due to a return to "get the girl" - though now, the girl is a future me. Does that make any sense at all? I've been blabbing an awful lot on this thread, and I'm really sorry if it's turning anybody off.
Alexia, I just read your latest post. Yes, I think if I could be transformed into a woman right now, even if it was not a beautiful, slender woman, as long as I could walk down the street without everybody pointing and laughing, I would definitely do it. This comes back to my original point in this thread, my fears about passing. I read an inspirational story the other day about Jan Hamilton, a British para soldier who transitioned and went to a doc in Thailand named Dr Suporn. He seemed to do a pretty good job! From para to fairly convincing female, that was a trick. If I could afford to get similar work done then I would definitely do it, no question. It's not that I desire a certain movie star look before I transition, I just want to blend in and not have people constantly questioning me. I just want to be a woman, not a transexual - no offense to anybody, I hope, I'm not panning transexualism in any way. I just want to go all the way, not be stuck in some in-between state.
Am I able to post pics here? If so, then I could post one of my face to see what you gals think. I don't really have any clue about what constitutes masculine or feminine features - I have a small chin and jaw (I think) but my face as a whole screams "guy". I'd definitely need to get the eyebrow ridge trimmed down, and the nose is pretty horrible and bulbous too. I've always hated the way I look, this is part of why I was so insecure talking to women. I've always believed I was ugly, and the kids at school didn't hesitate to reinforce that notion. My wife is from Japan, and she thinks I'm cute - I really think that's because I look sufficiently different from the Asian norm. Western girls just don't find me attractive at all.
Sorry for all the ramblings, again - please let me know if I'm straying outside what's ok to talk about here. If I can post pics then I'd be glad to have you guys critique what you think I would need to work on to feminize the facial features.
Thanks again!
Meow
Hey, I just got a thing for you, do post your picture here or sent it to my email and I will do a Virtual transform to make it more feminine( if it isn't already) if you like. That is what I do best, and being an artist I truly enjoy the process. Check out the results for one of our TGirls I have done at link: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,68191.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,68191.0.html)
My Email is alexaelliot@yahoo.com
Meow,
At 15 posts, many things will open up to you. Just keep asking questions and replying to posts and you will get there.
My ex always told me I make an ugly woman. It that is so, then so be it. I would rather be an ugly woman than to live one more moment as a male.
Hugs and Love
Janet
Quote from: Beni on December 07, 2009, 08:08:02 PM
Ha.....I Knew I would always look like a guy in a Dress, or pant suit anyway. Needless to say, change happens. Ok some need a little facial surgery, but For me anyway, this is the face I was born with, but on E. So don't use the "I'll look like a guy with Boob's think. to hold you back. It does take time and the change is soooo slow but it does happen. Though it does vary from person to person.
Best of luck how ever you deal with it.
Beni
I've seen your before pics Beni and the changes are very impressive considering you haven't resorted to surgery and I really wish HRT worked as well on me but it didn't unfortunitely.
Well, I've made my appointment with a local transgender-specific therapist, courtesy of a recommendation from Dawn - thanks, Dawn! I'll be seeing Melinda on Friday.
I've been trying out this new Braun Epilator - very nice little gadget. I did my legs over the weekend. A little painful in places, but it's definitely better if you shaved recently. Longer hairs are the worst. I tried it on the face but quickly stopped since it was much, much more painful! I have quite sensitive skin, it gets inflamed and red if you breathe on it. Poor delicate little me that looks like Shrek. But it really does seem to work - the legs get nice and smooth. I really dislike body hair.
I can see I'm going to have to take this really slowly with my wife - although we're not fighting or anything drastic like that, I can see that she has pretty much shut down about the whole thing and doesn't want to talk about it. Can't say I blame her. I'll just play it by ear and see where the therapy goes.
I've been ordering way too much stuff online (shoes in particular - I have a thing for pretty shoes). Time to step back and take a breath. It's all a little heady.
Thanks again for everybody's help here - Alexia, I will be trying to get those pics taken today and send them over to you.
Meow
Meow,
That's great news about seeing the therapist! I do hope it all goes well!
Epilation? Yikes!! Sounds too painful, especially on the face, lol. How about electrolysis on your facial hair? We have several places in the local area to use, If you like, I can make recommendations there too. Karin can recommend a good laser option if you'd be interested in that process, as well.
Our SO's are often the hardest part of this process. You have the right idea though; slow. And, keep the lines of communication open. That's usually the key.
Careful of that pink fog as it's called, lol! Shopping can get real addictive, real fast. Expensive too! As you said, coming up for fresh air can help you clear your mind. But, enjoy the ride anyway!
Take care!
Dawn
What sort of epilator? Could you show me? I'm a bit curious.
Also, as a veteran of both laser and electrolysis, I kind of chuckled at it being recommended as a less-painful alternative. :)
I found it on Amazon, it's called the Braun 5270 Silk-épil X'elle Body System Epilator. I have no experience of laser or electrolysis, so I can't really compare. This little thing is quite nice because it has a light which really helps to spot the little hairs you missed, and a couple of different heads - one for "beginners" which is supposed to make it a little easier (it has rollers which I think are supposed to raise the hairs up a bit), a more open head that puts the tweezer roller more in direct contact with the skin (for "advanced" people whose skin is more used to it - though I found I actually preferred this one) and a shaver head which was a surprise. Seems like a good modular design, and I've liked Braun shavers in the past, they always seem to be high quality (and no, I don't work for them!). Like I said, it's a bit too much for use on the face (for me anyway), but for the legs it seems to work very well - if you shave first so that the hairs are quite short. I noticed a definite difference in pain level when I tried the epilator on areas which I had happened to miss with the shaver. But whatever, it's bearable and really not that bad, and it does get rid of the hairs. I've also ordered some Emjoi after-epilation cream which is supposed to help soothe the skin and also somehow inhibit regrowth. There are apparently also gels out there which are supposed to help with ingrown hairs - hopefully I won't get that, but we'll see!
Meow
As unpopular as this might be to bring up, Meow, have you checked out Anne Lawrence's website related to ->-bleeped-<-? I think you might find even more information there that will help you deal with your feelings, especially the sexual ones.
You might start here: http://www.annelawrence.com/publications/ ->-bleeped-<-,_a_paraphilic_model_of_GID.pdf (http://www.annelawrence.com/publications/%20-%3E-bleeped-%3C-,_a_paraphilic_model_of_GID.pdf)
Though you can read more at the main page here:
http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/ ->-bleeped-<-index.html (http://www.annelawrence.com/twr/%20-%3E-bleeped-%3C-index.html)
Yes, thanks - I have seen Anne Lawrence's site and skimmed the stuff on ->-bleeped-<-. I quickly realized when I came back to this stuff recently that there seems to be a bit of a controversy over this term, or at least with regard to Anne Lawrence. I still haven't been able to untangle the threads to figure out whether it's just some people who have a personal vendetta against her, or if there is actually a reasonable disagreement.
I've tried to analyse my own experiences with this, and it's obvious that there is a sexual component to the feelings of gender dysphoria that I have. These feelings definitely go away for a minute or two right after orgasm. Climax is a very strange thing, obviously certain chemicals are released in your brain at that moment, which produces the classic feelings of relaxation and not caring about anything. So I need to figure out if I am really someone who would benefit from transition, or if it is simply a fetish. My intuition currently is that I have a deep desire to be a woman, regardless of the "noise" that is produced by sex hormones and the triggers associated with that. Simply because my gender dysphoria has become mixed up with the sex triggers doesn't, in my mind, invalidate the deeper issue of wanting to be female. It does, of course, cloud the landscape, and I hope that the therapy with a psychologist experienced in transgender issues will help me to find my way through this successfully.
It's certainly an interesting field, isn't it? We are messing with some of the most fundamental aspects of our perception of sex and gender. Not by choice, mind you, I'd appreciate it if my life was a little simpler and I didn't have to deal with this, but here I am, so here I go!
Thanks again,
Meow
Yes, I agree with you that the presence of sexual motivation does not invalidate one's deeper desires to be female, but I present it just as an opportunity for you to find out more about how the sexual component might function to see if you could glean any useful information from it.
I'm glad to know you are so thoroughly researching the topic even to consider people like Lawrence.
Hi Interalia,
Wow, I just had a read of your blog (linked on your sig line). Thanks for publishing that, it's extremely interesting to me. I have long been aware of the dangers of groupthink, in all walks of life really, and it seems to be an issue in transgenderland too. I really do believe that many people probably try to fit themselves into the "accepted" mode of what a transexual is "supposed" to experience (e.g. always hated being a boy, hate the penis, always felt like I was a girl on the inside etc). I think this is a natural part of human nature - we will try to fit ourselves into a shoebox so we can make sense of who and what we are - oh, ok, so *that's* what I am. It makes things a little easier to deal with. Also, I think you're bang on about the doubts people have, and how there is a circle of mutual validation that goes on. I'm not trying to slam anybody or say that it's necessarily wrong, it's just that what you say has the ring of truth about it. Well, everything except the religion part (I'm very anti-religion), but I won't hold that against you! ;-)
Thanks again, reading your blog has re-sharpened my intent to be completely and utterly honest when I speak to the therapist this Friday. There is a big temptation to gloss over doubts and not mention inconvenient truths, but I think it's much more interesting to try to really get to the bottom of this, than to try to make myself sound like a "classic" transexual just because I know that's what will smooth the path toward transition. Deceipt (of self or others) helps nobody. We'll see how that goes!
Thanks again,
Meow
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 12:14:28 PM
Yes, thanks - I have seen Anne Lawrence's site and skimmed the stuff on ->-bleeped-<-. I quickly realized when I came back to this stuff recently that there seems to be a bit of a controversy over this term, or at least with regard to Anne Lawrence. I still haven't been able to untangle the threads to figure out whether it's just some people who have a personal vendetta against her, or if there is actually a reasonable disagreement.
I've tried to analyse my own experiences with this, and it's obvious that there is a sexual component to the feelings of gender dysphoria that I have. These feelings definitely go away for a minute or two right after orgasm. Climax is a very strange thing, obviously certain chemicals are released in your brain at that moment, which produces the classic feelings of relaxation and not caring about anything. So I need to figure out if I am really someone who would benefit from transition, or if it is simply a fetish. My intuition currently is that I have a deep desire to be a woman, regardless of the "noise" that is produced by sex hormones and the triggers associated with that. Simply because my gender dysphoria has become mixed up with the sex triggers doesn't, in my mind, invalidate the deeper issue of wanting to be female. It does, of course, cloud the landscape, and I hope that the therapy with a psychologist experienced in transgender issues will help me to find my way through this successfully.
It's certainly an interesting field, isn't it? We are messing with some of the most fundamental aspects of our perception of sex and gender. Not by choice, mind you, I'd appreciate it if my life was a little simpler and I didn't have to deal with this, but here I am, so here I go!
Thanks again,
Meow
Hello Meow
Below is link to an alternative idea to " ->-bleeped-<-" that I think is much more possible. Please read the article.
The fact that many of these people who begin to de-transition and find that their GID returns when they begin taking testosterone indicates that this is more than a "MENTAL" problem.
Many of the proponents for ->-bleeped-<- believe that deep down this is a result of unhealthy masturbation habits during puberty. If you only knew my history you would understand how silly this idea sounds (I was a very late bloomer). Only you know when you first became aware of your GID and if it was well before any "Masturbation routine" was established then that should indicate this is not your problem. Many of the people are also proponents of "Reparative Therapy" which has proven time and again to be very unpredictable.
There are those that seem to be happy after de-transitioning however, in the majority of these cases most of these people (I believe) were actually Gay men who had been brought up with very strict Religious/Moral beliefs that made them unwilling to accept their homosexuality. These people usually displayed behaviors in teenage years that were consistent with gay men (including Dating/Sex with men) and very little behavior consistent with GID (suicidal thoughts, depression, disgust with ones own body).
MSNBC recently aired a program on this topic where 2 people de-transitioned. One person was obviously a Gay man in denial, and was very happy when he began to transition back quickly taking on the physique of a bodybuilder (which to many TS would trigger a suicide) and dating men.
The second person was encouraged to de-transition by a Church organization that had an outreach program to the Gay/TS community. This person later regretted the de-transition, the GID returned and she attempted suicide. This was a very interesting documentary you should watch if you can.
As far as the issue of whether or not to transition, in your case I would advise you to be very careful and very sure that there is no other way you can solve the problem. If you have not already told your wife you should make sure that you are prepared to lose her before you tell her anything. Regardless of what anyone tells you there is no guarantee that she will accept this, and just telling her that you feel this way will change everything in your relationship regardless of whether or not you decide to transition.
It is true that we live in a "no fault" divorce society so she does not need the GID issue as a reason to divorce you, but you have a child and she may very well use the GID issue to gain full custody. I only tell you this because these are the most common outcomes for those in your situation. I wish you the best, and hope that you make the best decision.
Here is an excerpt and link to the article I mentioned.
http://www.avitale.com/TNote15Testosterone.htm (http://www.avitale.com/TNote15Testosterone.htm)
"Case study 1.: In 2005 a genetic male who had transitioned to the female gender role (Sex Reassignment Surgery in the mid 1980s) and had been living happily--or at least contently--as a woman for 20 years, presented to me with relationship issues. What is significant about this case is that the individual made the appointment using her legal female name (S.) but presented as an individual with a male appearance and a subdued but obvious male demeanor.
On further discovery, it was learned that two years earlier, while S. was still living in the female gender role, she met a woman and fell in love. They started dating and eventually cohabiting. As is common with most MTFs, her libido was low to nonexistent. To please her girlfriend, she returned to the doctor who originally prescribed her estrogen, and asked to be put on testosterone to increase her libido.
However, along with the increase in libido, the testosterone caused a re-masculinization of her body. To complicate matters, the girlfriend not only enjoyed her partner's increased libido, she also enjoyed the masculinization and encouraged S. to take increasingly massive doses of testosterone. In time S. had in effect retransitioned back to looking and presenting as a male.
To S's surprise, a strong unrelenting desire to be a woman rerurned to pre-transition levels. Still owning a large female wardrobe, she started to cross dress to relieve the anxiety. The problem now was that the girl friend was upset over seeing her, now male looking lover, wearing women's clothes and was threatening to leave her unless she stopped. Totally distraught over her situation, S. came to me in the hope that I could help to save the relationship. In the end S. realized that in order to find peace, she needed to give up the relationship, stop taking the testosterone and resumed an estrogen regimen. She is now happily--or at least contently--once again living in the female gender role."
Hi Jesslee,
I think maybe you're mixing me up with someone else, because you mention me having a child (we don't), and also seem to be under the impression that I haven't yet told my wife about this (I did, very early on in our relationship).
You mention people de-transitioning and feeling GID return after going back "on" testosterone. I think this is interesting, because as far as I know testosterone is the sex hormone, it's what provides the drive for a healthy male. I think if you have low testosterone then you pretty much have a lower sex drive. I believe I remember reading that even women who receive testosterone therapy (in doses appropriate for females) experience an increased sex drive. So, to me this is interesting because it brings up the possibility of the GID being driven, or at least triggered, by sex drive, i.e. testosterone. I'm not making any conclusions here, I'm just brainstorming, but if this was true then maybe one of the reasons MtF transsexuals "feel better" after transitioning is because they have removed the source of testosterone (the testes) and thus have removed the source of the sex drive that triggered these feelings of dysphoria previously.
You know, I think we should be able to talk about these sorts of things without feeling like we have to walk on eggshells, or that we might be saying the wrong thing that might tend to make someone feel "invalidated". That's not what I'm trying to do at all. In fact, I'm very open to the fact that I may go either way here - I may find out that I am a bona fide transsexual, who will feel happier once I've confronted all my little issues and just do the transition. Or I may find out that my GID is more driven by sex fantasies, and that transitioning would ultimately make me very unhappy since it takes away the source - i.e. my male sex drive.
On this subject, I think it's a bit more than a simple sex fantasy thing for me. I remember when I was a very small child, probably under the age of 6, being fascinated with my older sister's white boots and wanting to put them on. I remember sitting in my room chanting to myself "I am a boy, I am a boy, I am a boy", because I could feel something deep inside of me that wanted to become a girl. I felt like there was some kind of transformative force that wanted to turn me into a girl, and I tried to resist it. I also remember sometimes giving into this, and chanting instead "I am a girl", and feeling a thrill when I said that. I remember many such feelings way before puberty ever hit. I remember as puberty started to take hold, wishing above all else that it could stop, and that I could instead wake up one morning as a girl, because I sensed deep down that irreversible changes were happening to me, and I hated it. What happened at puberty was that my sex drive suddenly went through the roof, and it's perhaps inevitable that something so intimately linked to the other sex (even if it is the idea of me being that sex) would become, well, sexualised. That's easy to see. I don't think it has to be seen as the sole foundation of the GID, but I'm very comfortable with it being a part of it. Either way doesn't necessarily validate or invalidate anything.
I do think that there is an almost infinite number of permutations for the way people can be transgendered. There most likely are lots of cases of men who are actually gay, who think they are transsexual but actually just need to work through their own issues with being gay. It was interesting to read somewhere that a lot of the more flamboyant "drag queens" are actually gay men who see themselves more as female impersonators, and they really do not want to become fully female at all, since they identify as gay men, not women. These people often revel in the "acting like a woman" part, and they can be very good at it (also very over-the-top, but that's ok too!). These people would never want to lose their ability to have sex as a man, though. I have read fantasies which explicitly lay out a story where a boy is "sissified" to be exactly like a girl in every respect, but they still keep their penis and testicles (just tucked away). I was struck by how the stories always seem to emphasise this, as if it's some kind of "safe reassurance" for the reader that they are still male under it all, just "sissified". I was always a little puzzled by this, because surely if they like being a girl, then why wouldn't they want to go all the way and do that last step? But now I realize that it's all just part of the spectrum. Some people really want to be feminine in every way, but know that underneath it all, they are still male. I am the opposite; in fact I would gain quite a bit of comfort from knowing that I was female in shape and form, underneath everything, even if I had to continue to live in society as a man. Of course, I'd much rather live as a woman, but I'm just making the point that for me it's the opposite - the knowledge that there's still a penis down there under all the clothing is a real buzzkill for me. And padded bras just doesn't do it, I want the real thing.
So there are people who are not so much into the "acting like a woman" aspect, so much as "being a woman". There is a subtle difference, and I believe I am the latter. I am not effeminate; if you met me, you would never guess that I am transgendered. Well, maybe you would, I dunno, but I am able to put on a pretty good act (I find myself changing my persona according to the people I'm with - e.g. I'll cater one way to a bunch of working guys, and another way to a group of geeks, and yet another way to a group of people I know to be transgendered - I try to read people, and find myself able to tune into their frequency, and, if I feel like it, deal on their level). But I digress - the thing is, I am not interested in the drag queen thing, or acting all flamboyant or dressing up and parading around on a stage. This is exhibitionism, and it's fine, but it's not me. For me, the GID is simply about WANTING to be wholly female in every respect possible. I have not ever actually thought of myself as a woman trapped in a man's body. Nor have I ever sat there hating my penis. Nor have I ever contemplated suicide because I'm a man rather than a woman. Does this "invalidate" my feelings of gender dysphoria? Who's to say? I mean, this whole field is a work in progress, isn't it. We should be careful not to ossify the dogma too much at this early stage, lest we turn people off expressing themselves honestly.
I think I could do the transition thing, to be honest, or maybe I'd also be able to deal with living as a man for the rest of my life. True, I've been feeling kind of dead inside for the last few years (no aspersion to my wife, she's great - this is about me). But I could probably deal with it. I know that since I've re-started looking at the GID again head-on, I've felt a huge surge of motivation and excitement. Whether this is real, because it's me on the "right" path again, or just titillation because it's so intimately involved with my sexual fantasies of becoming a female, well, that's hopefully what I'm going to find out through therapy. Should be interesting...
:-)
Meow
Post Merge: December 15, 2009, 02:14:17 PM
One more thing - I read online recently a fantasy about someone being forced to become a woman, through some sort of contrived circumstances that don't really matter here. The thing that struck me was the rather twisted view of women that the author exhibited - during the feminization process, one of the nurses who was helping him become her was telling the patient about how, once he became a woman, she would be compelled to open her legs to any man who wanted her, because women were basically helpless in front of men and had to do whatever they wanted. There were a lot of little episodes where the patient is gradually forced to perform oral sex on a male nurse, and starts to like it, to his/her horror, but eventual acceptance sets in and "he" starts relishing being a "she" and submitting herself to the lustful appetites of men.
I found all this rather strange, because it seemed to betray a really immature, simplistic view of women. I know it was "just a fantasy", but the author did seem to have some real issues there! To him (or her - I'm guessing it was a him, since I can't really imagine any woman writing this stuff) women really are just weak creatures who are only about submission to the whims of men. It seems a bit demeaning, to be honest. I have to say I've noticed this in quite a bit of the "fantasy" literature I've read. It just seemed to me that the author didn't hold women in very high regard at all.
Never mind, just thinking out loud...
Meow
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 04:05:05 PM
Hi Jesslee,
I think maybe you're mixing me up with someone else, because you mention me having a child (we don't), and also seem to be under the impression that I haven't yet told my wife about this (I did, very early on in our relationship).
You mention people de-transitioning and feeling GID return after going back "on" testosterone. I think this is interesting, because as far as I know testosterone is the sex hormone, it's what provides the drive for a healthy male. I think if you have low testosterone then you pretty much have a lower sex drive. I believe I remember reading that even women who receive testosterone therapy (in doses appropriate for females) experience an increased sex drive. So, to me this is interesting because it brings up the possibility of the GID being driven, or at least triggered, by sex drive, i.e. testosterone. I'm not making any conclusions here, I'm just brainstorming, but if this was true then maybe one of the reasons MtF transsexuals "feel better" after transitioning is because they have removed the source of testosterone (the testes) and thus have removed the source of the sex drive that triggered these feelings of dysphoria previously.
You know, I think we should be able to talk about these sorts of things without feeling like we have to walk on eggshells, or that we might be saying the wrong thing that might tend to make someone feel "invalidated". That's not what I'm trying to do at all. In fact, I'm very open to the fact that I may go either way here - I may find out that I am a bona fide transsexual, who will feel happier once I've confronted all my little issues and just do the transition. Or I may find out that my GID is more driven by sex fantasies, and that transitioning would ultimately make me very unhappy since it takes away the source - i.e. my male sex drive.
On this subject, I think it's a bit more than a simple sex fantasy thing for me. I remember when I was a very small child, probably under the age of 6, being fascinated with my older sister's white boots and wanting to put them on. I remember sitting in my room chanting to myself "I am a boy, I am a boy, I am a boy", because I could feel something deep inside of me that wanted to become a girl. I felt like there was some kind of transformative force that wanted to turn me into a girl, and I tried to resist it. I also remember sometimes giving into this, and chanting instead "I am a girl", and feeling a thrill when I said that. I remember many such feelings way before puberty ever hit. I remember as puberty started to take hold, wishing above all else that it could stop, and that I could instead wake up one morning as a girl, because I sensed deep down that irreversible changes were happening to me, and I hated it. What happened at puberty was that my sex drive suddenly went through the roof, and it's perhaps inevitable that something so intimately linked to the other sex (even if it is the idea of me being that sex) would become, well, sexualised. That's easy to see. I don't think it has to be seen as the sole foundation of the GID, but I'm very comfortable with it being a part of it. Either way doesn't necessarily validate or invalidate anything.
I do think that there is an almost infinite number of permutations for the way people can be transgendered. There most likely are lots of cases of men who are actually gay, who think they are transsexual but actually just need to work through their own issues with being gay. It was interesting to read somewhere that a lot of the more flamboyant "drag queens" are actually gay men who see themselves more as female impersonators, and they really do not want to become fully female at all, since they identify as gay men, not women. These people often revel in the "acting like a woman" part, and they can be very good at it (also very over-the-top, but that's ok too!). These people would never want to lose their ability to have sex as a man, though. I have read fantasies which explicitly lay out a story where a boy is "sissified" to be exactly like a girl in every respect, but they still keep their penis and testicles (just tucked away). I was struck by how the stories always seem to emphasise this, as if it's some kind of "safe reassurance" for the reader that they are still male under it all, just "sissified". I was always a little puzzled by this, because surely if they like being a girl, then why wouldn't they want to go all the way and do that last step? But now I realize that it's all just part of the spectrum. Some people really want to be feminine in every way, but know that underneath it all, they are still male. I am the opposite; in fact I would gain quite a bit of comfort from knowing that I was female in shape and form, underneath everything, even if I had to continue to live in society as a man. Of course, I'd much rather live as a woman, but I'm just making the point that for me it's the opposite - the knowledge that there's still a penis down there under all the clothing is a real buzzkill for me. And padded bras just doesn't do it, I want the real thing.
So there are people who are not so much into the "acting like a woman" aspect, so much as "being a woman". There is a subtle difference, and I believe I am the latter. I am not effeminate; if you met me, you would never guess that I am transgendered. Well, maybe you would, I dunno, but I am able to put on a pretty good act (I find myself changing my persona according to the people I'm with - e.g. I'll cater one way to a bunch of working guys, and another way to a group of geeks, and yet another way to a group of people I know to be transgendered - I try to read people, and find myself able to tune into their frequency, and, if I feel like it, deal on their level). But I digress - the thing is, I am not interested in the drag queen thing, or acting all flamboyant or dressing up and parading around on a stage. This is exhibitionism, and it's fine, but it's not me. For me, the GID is simply about WANTING to be wholly female in every respect possible. I have not ever actually thought of myself as a woman trapped in a man's body. Nor have I ever sat there hating my penis. Nor have I ever contemplated suicide because I'm a man rather than a woman. Does this "invalidate" my feelings of gender dysphoria? Who's to say? I mean, this whole field is a work in progress, isn't it. We should be careful not to ossify the dogma too much at this early stage, lest we turn people off expressing themselves honestly.
I think I could do the transition thing, to be honest, or maybe I'd also be able to deal with living as a man for the rest of my life. True, I've been feeling kind of dead inside for the last few years (no aspersion to my wife, she's great - this is about me). But I could probably deal with it. I know that since I've re-started looking at the GID again head-on, I've felt a huge surge of motivation and excitement. Whether this is real, because it's me on the "right" path again, or just titillation because it's so intimately involved with my sexual fantasies of becoming a female, well, that's hopefully what I'm going to find out through therapy. Should be interesting...
:-)
Meow
Post Merge: December 15, 2009, 02:14:17 PM
One more thing - I read online recently a fantasy about someone being forced to become a woman, through some sort of contrived circumstances that don't really matter here. The thing that struck me was the rather twisted view of women that the author exhibited - during the feminization process, one of the nurses who was helping him become her was telling the patient about how, once he became a woman, she would be compelled to open her legs to any man who wanted her, because women were basically helpless in front of men and had to do whatever they wanted. There were a lot of little episodes where the patient is gradually forced to perform oral sex on a male nurse, and starts to like it, to his/her horror, but eventual acceptance sets in and "he" starts relishing being a "she" and submitting herself to the lustful appetites of men.
I found all this rather strange, because it seemed to betray a really immature, simplistic view of women. I know it was "just a fantasy", but the author did seem to have some real issues there! To him (or her - I'm guessing it was a him, since I can't really imagine any woman writing this stuff) women really are just weak creatures who are only about submission to the whims of men. It seems a bit demeaning, to be honest. I have to say I've noticed this in quite a bit of the "fantasy" literature I've read. It just seemed to me that the author didn't hold women in very high regard at all.
Never mind, just thinking out loud...
Meow
Yes sorry, I got your thread confused with Davina's "Should I live with it or fix it" thread, I was following both, and they had some similar topics.
Now on to the other issues.
"For me, the GID is simply about WANTING to be wholly female in every respect possible. I have not ever actually thought of myself as a woman trapped in a man's body. Nor have I ever sat there hating my penis. Nor have I ever contemplated suicide because I'm a man rather than a woman. Does this "invalidate" my feelings of gender dysphoria? Who's to say? I mean, this whole field is a work in progress, isn't it. We should be careful not to ossify the dogma too much at this early stage, lest we turn people off expressing themselves honestly."
Please do not think that I am insisting on a "One Size Fits All" diagnosis for those with GID, this is not what I meant. Not all will experience every symptom, and many of the symptoms of GID seem to be dynamic (at least for myself) in that they will appear and increase in intensity over time.
There are those that wish to supply a "One Size Fits All" vector of transmission for GID in non-homosexual men. The most vocal groups are those that insist GID is actually a Sexual Fetish ( ->-bleeped-<-). While I do believe that there are people who can appear dysphoric on the surface because they have a sexual-fetish that begins to consume their entire life. I also believe that these people are most likely a form of cross-dresser and that for them there dysphoria centers solely around the act of sex. I also believe that this type of person can account for the majority of those (non-gay men) that are unhappy after they have transitioned. They have a libido that has been dramatically reduced and therefore no longer have such a severe desire to fantasize about being a woman or wearing a female clothing. This would most likely make them realize that they have made a mistake. In contrast those people that did not suffer from such a fetish will go on to enjoy their new life and never question if they have made a mistake.
Now as for the issue of a testosterone fueled sex drive being responsible for GID in a TS, on the surface this seems logical until you begin to look at what it is the individual is dysphoric about.
First not every TS is without Libido (or testosterone) after transition, it is only the levels that have changed/dropped, and many report a healthy sex life that resembles that of natal females. Now if it was only the "SEX DRIVE" that triggered GID then these people should still experience dysphoria albeit on a less frequent/severe scale. When you read the article you will see that this is not what is going on, the TS will have a sex drive (although reduced) and not experience any dysphoria until after they begin introducing high levels of testosterone in their bodies which then begin to masculinize. It is this Masculinization that triggers the dysphoria, not the sex drive itself.
In my opinion this is even more proof that the TS is more likely to have a female brain/identity, and that reactions such as these are what would be expected for any natal female who was subjected to a similar treatment.
If a natal female (not suffering from GID) were given large amounts of Testosterone her sex drive/libido will definitely increase to male levels, and while she may have no problem with this, I can guarantee that when she begins to develop male secondary characteristics such as Facial hair, deep voice, etc.. she will begin to suffer symptoms that are identical to those experienced by pre-op MTF transsexuals.
Now would we consider her "dysphoria" to be "Triggered" by a testosterone fueled sex drive? Or would we recognize that she is a female and therefore the masculization of her body is what has triggered the dysphoria?
This unwillingness to compare libidos and sexuality of (successful) post-op MTF transsexuals with those of natal females is the root of what is wrong with the proponents of Autogynephelia.
As I've already mentioned, Meow, I am absolutely positively CERTAIN that you are a girl. There is no doubt in my mind at all.
I remember having very similar masturbation experiences (specifically the desire to become female ebbing after the climax), and it caused me to hesitate as well. But once I started really transitioning, I found that the sexual desire was just my way of expressing what I wanted... and once I had a better way of dealing with those feelings, I didn't need to express them to myself only through that sort of activity.
For many, the use of hormones diminishes your... "need" for tha activity anyway. I'm going to say this is probably true in my case. Although I was never exactly an everyday sort of person anyway, I very rarely think about pleasuring myself and instead concentrate on actually BEING what I've wanted to be.
You'll be fine. You might have some worries at first and even a false start or two (I did), but in the end, I have no doubt in my mind that transitioning is for you, girly.
Thanks, Firelight! The thing is, I don't *feel* like a girl, not right now. I think this is an interesting difference, classic transsexuals seem to say that they always felt like they were already girls on the inside, in the wrong body. I don't feel like that; I just know I *want* to be a girl. I wonder if this disqualifies me from the transsexual club? Does it make me a wannabe? A fetishist?
And at what point will I grow to regard myself as a girl? Ever? Or will it all be one big trip down self delusion, plastic surgery, SRS, hormones, and at the end of it what I end up with is just me, the same, feeling like a fraud now in a dress? I mean, I have lived my 42 years as a male. I guess I have a long road to travel, whatever happens... it's going to be a humdinger, that's for sure!
Sorry if this is more forthright than is proper, I don't want to offend anybody. I'm not attacking any interpretation of what it means to be transsexual... it's just that there are such big doubts about what exactly I am, and what the proper course is for me in the long run. I really have no idea. I know there's this big feminine side to me - it doesn't manifest by prancing around in a tutu, but rather in a general aversion to the more "male" and aggressive modes of behavior, in favor of compassion and caring. I see these as being the positive feminine qualities. When I was a kid at school, I was the only one who seemed to care when a bird flew into the window. Everybody else (it was an all-boys school) was laughing at the dumb bird, but I was the one going outside to see if it was ok or not. You have a tough time as a kid when you are the one who wants to let the wasp out rather than kill it. Not exactly the best of times for me, especially being as confused about pantyhose as I was. Talk about messed up kid, it's a wonder I'm still here really.
Boy, I wish we had the internet back in the 1980's. About the only reference I had available to me (we lived in a farmhouse out in the country back in the UK) was a really old set of encyclopedias, where I was able to find an entry on hermaphroditism, but that was about it. I had no idea there was any possibility to do stuff like transition. Sigh.
Meow
To tell the truth, I don't know that I feel like a girl, either. I don't know what girls feel like, or boys, or the few that aren't either one. I feel like *me*, and that feeling just happens to (mostly) overlap with what I think a girl feels like. It's entirely possible that I'm way off.
I don't even hate the physical 'male' aspects. Some of them are very irritating, but I've never thought about any drastic measures to remove them by my own hand.
Official-sounding people have nonetheless agreed that I'm very likely transsexual. If I am, you seem like you're probably one too.
Living for 42 years as a male is going to affect you quite profoundly. It's probably the only life you've ever known; it doesn't seem possible, even 'right' to change something like that at first. I'm only 23, and I have trouble getting over those ideas; I can't imagine what it must be like for you. But these doubts do not disqualify either of us from claiming that we are who we feel we are.
As for what to do? That's entirely up to you. Everyone has their own path to wherever they're going; you'll find yours eventually, I'm sure. Try not to worry about the destination.
To quote a song (that you probably don't recognize, but what the hey):
Quote from: Realize by Nami Tamaki
I don't know where I'll end up,
But I believe I'll get there.
I'll let my thoughts flow for now.
The road looks the longest from its starting point. Don't be fooled. ^_^
I read this post and was floored...you seem have the same thoughts I had my whole life. in my youth I had often wondered whether what I had exsperienced was a fetish or a legitiment desire to become the opposite sex. It wasn't until I got the internet and was able read up on everything that was transsexualism. I learned first and formost that everyone's situatiion is unique and beautiful in their own way. But that all of us just knew that in some way or another we were differnet. That we don't look exactly how we feel we should. Coming to this conclusion helped me explore things further but didn't halt my life. I married at 18, had three children and did most of everything my gender's role typically called for. But I just knew things weren't right. I felt it all my life and my research gave it a name and the wife allowed me to give me an outlet but it wasn't enough. It never was, she has always been supportive and gave me my girl time but it wasn't ever satisfying. Sometimes I would hate myself for being who I was, that I was putting my wife through stress she didn't need. I would try and "quit" cold turkey and throw out clothes and make-up and swear it off for good. Just for all the same feelings to creep back up.
I knew that I would eventually transistion if I ever wanted to be at piece, but the one thing that always stopped me was wondering is what would I lose if I did. I never thought I could pass so I figured that I would be a social outcast. I never outed myelf so who knows what my family would think and then there was the big one...my wife and kids.
She never gave me a reason to doubt, my wife has been there with me from the start of my journey and I haven't made a move until both of us were ready to do it. My kids grew up with seeing me in girls clothes, my home was my safe place and the kids never thought it was weird because I always talked to them about it. I soon realized that I had a foundation for that support.
On one of my girl days, my wifes best friends came by and helped me out and she had her camera handy. Though I was not really up for the idea of being photographed i indulged her and took a couple of pics. See I was against the pictures because I never thought I could pass, ever. I was a jock in High School and at 5'8" I am not really the average hight of a female either. But once I saw the picture of me where I both her and I had to take a second look it was amazing...it was so liberating knowing that I had a chance to actually being able to blend in. I never felt as though I was a crossdresser or a drag queen or a ->-bleeped-<-. So I wam with you with feeling like if I don't pass I don't want it.
My suggestion is that you find a good close friend you can trust. Work really hard on figureing out how to get the look you want and become passable. Because once you see you can pass it ithe confidence will help you continue forward in what ever you decide to do in your journey! Good luck and I really hope this helps
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 11:29:08 PM
Thanks, Firelight! The thing is, I don't *feel* like a girl, not right now.
I hate how repetitive I sound, but I didn't, either. I never thought of it has my birthright to be female. I didn't think I was born female. I just know that I have a gender identity that is better represented through a female persona, and a desire to bring that out.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 11:29:08 PMI think this is an interesting difference, classic transsexuals seem to say that they always felt like they were already girls on the inside, in the wrong body. I don't feel like that; I just know I *want* to be a girl.
For me personally, I abhor that cliche, and I don't think very many TS people feel that way. I think that's more like the primetime television take on ->-bleeped-<-, personally. Of course, the way most entertainment mediums seem to think, you can just hop onto a table, get an operation, and be female over the weekend. And you can only be even slightly passable if you're a sympathetic character. Otherwise you're a huge dude in a dress with a 5 o'clock shadow. In other words... I don't think this is your best frame of reference.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 11:29:08 PMI wonder if this disqualifies me from the transsexual club? Does it make me a wannabe? A fetishist?
Why are you so concerned over arbitrary and meaningless labels? Whatever you are, that's what you are. Who cares what you call it.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 11:29:08 PMAnd at what point will I grow to regard myself as a girl? Ever?
That's a tricky question. I'm not sure at what point I started consciously and subconsciously thinking of myself AS female. I still spend a good deal of time as male (though I'm working to remedy that... as soon as my damned hair grows out again. >:( But I digress...), but at some point down the line, I started using female pronouns to refer to myself and started thinking of me as "Kat" rather than "Adam."
I think that first time someone - knowingly or unknowingly - refers to you in female terms, and your heart does a little leap in your chest. I remember a good friend of mine told me he thought of me as his sister (this was just before I was open about my ->-bleeped-<-, but I had told him). And I don't know what it was, but I was filled with indescribable joy. He called me "sis" from that point on until we went our separate ways, and I think that was probably the one thing that made me decide to be open with who I want to be, and gave myself permission to work to that goal. Things are still tough, but there isn't a time that goes by when I'm called by my female name, or referred to in female pronouns, that my don't get that same feeling of happiness.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 11:29:08 PMOr will it all be one big trip down self delusion, plastic surgery, SRS, hormones, and at the end of it what I end up with is just me, the same, feeling like a fraud now in a dress?
A line I remember from the sitcom "Frasier" stands out in my mind, here. I'm going to paraphrase it as best as I can: "You know, as you get on in life, it's not the times where you ended up failing or embarrassing yourself that you look back on with regret; it's the times you never even tried."
I find that even in my stage in life, I find that to be true. Even if I make the most hideous woman imaginable, never convince anyone of my femininity, and and up just as a smaller, weaker, poorer version of me... damn it, I will have the knowledge that I put myself out there. I dared to reach for that brass ring. I spat in the face of a cold fate that tells me "You can't. You won't. You aren't." I defy that fate now, and even if I fail, I know that for each moment of my life, I live it saying: "I
can. I
will. I
am."
It's in you to say those things, too. If you truly desire this thing in life, then you owe it to yourself to reach out and try to give yourself what you think will make you happy. If you blow it, so what. You can always cry it off, then live to fight another day.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 11:29:08 PMSorry if this is more forthright than is proper, I don't want to offend anybody. I'm not attacking any interpretation of what it means to be transsexual...
Trust me. For my part, there is nothing you could discuss with me that would make me flinch. I consider no subject taboo, least of all this one.
Ad there are no hard-and-fast rules about what a transsexual MUST be. Even medical standards and practices are basically just constantly-refined educated guesses. It's up to you to look past trying to find the words to DESCRIBE it, and instead, just be it.
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 15, 2009, 11:29:08 PMit doesn't manifest by prancing around in a tutu,
Okay, you DEFINITELY got that from television. I've yet to meet a TS/TG girl that wants to do that. :-\
I think all of us just wish to blend in and not stick out in the crowd. Believe me the last thing I want to be walking down the street in is a tutu
Quote from: cutejanessa on December 16, 2009, 07:55:13 AM
I think all of us just wish to blend in and not stick out in the crowd.
That is SO true.
I couldn't "pass" as a guy after about age 14, not without attracting suspicious or quizzical looks - no point making any pretense to be "normal". That was okay 'cause I knew I wasn't "a guy". After transition at 24, nobody looked twice (except for the good kind of looks). That's all I wanted, a normal life.
Quote from: cutejanessa on December 16, 2009, 07:55:13 AM
I think all of us just wish to blend in and not stick out in the crowd. Believe me the last thing I want to be walking down the street in is a tutu
If you want to blend in you are transsexual - if you want to stand out and subconsciously take steps to do so by choosing inapproprioate dress you are trans-something else - equally valid and probably a very nice person to know - but I don't want to walk down the street or shop or socialise with you...
lilac
Quote from: lilacwoman on December 16, 2009, 09:50:13 AM
If you want to blend in you are transsexual - if you want to stand out and subconsciously take steps to do so by choosing inapproprioate dress you are trans-something else
I think this might be a bit of a stretch, actually. A person like that could simply be an exhibitionist by nature, regardless of their gender identity.
I want to apologise for the remark about prancing around in a tutu. I realized very soon after I typed this that it was very wrong, but I was tired and I let it be. What I was trying to say was rather that for me, this feeling is not satisfied by dressing up (i.e. transvestitism), as apparently some people are satisfied to leave it there, for me it's simply very unfulfilling now. And the "prancing" was referring to the exhibitionist streak that some gay men have when they want to be drag queens and flaunt that with relish and abandon. Both these things are excellent ways to be, as far as I'm concerned! But I was just expressing very poorly a thought about what I feel or don't feel. Sorry if I offended anybody, I really don't see transsexuals in that horrible clichéd way.
I don't know yet how I would feel about trying to "pass" out in the real world as a female, because I'm not even close to trying it yet. I believe I would feel much more comfortable with the whole process if I was able to get some surgery first to at least feminize my face and do whatever can be done with my hairline and fading hair. I believe you can do that much without committing to the whole deal (i.e. SRS etc) so I probably don't even need anybody's "permission" to just go do it, right? I would just feel a lot more comfortable if people weren't immediately reading me as a guy wearing women's clothes. However... I do find myself caring less and less what people think. I found it amazingly easy to go into Kohls again yesterday with a $30 coupon that I got from the last purchase, and search out a couple of dresses. Previously I would have felt mortified being seen actually looking at women's clothing, thinking that everybody was looking at me etc, but in fact nobody really cares much. If they do notice you, then they probably assume you're looking for a present for your wife or something, but even if they do suspect... who cares? What business is it of theirs anyway? I'm not hurting anybody.
I agree with the sentiment that at the end of your life, you regret more the things you didn't do, than the things you did. I remember an interview I saw with a person who was dying of AIDS, and on their deathbed they were asked if they had any regrets. The reply was, funnily enough, "I wish I had taken more chances". That may sound strange at first, given that they got AIDS through risky and unprotected sex, but it makes sense after you think about it. What he was saying was that you hesitate all your life, but then at the end it's too late. That's it, and you realize that if you'd just taken a few more leaps in the dark, then it probably would have been ok. This applies to me; all the times in my life when I have taken that big leap, it's actually worked out very well. I seem to get in trouble when I just stagnate.
Thanks again for all the discussion - this is great! And again, I hope I'm not offending anybody with my remarks. I'm truly not condemning or making fun of anybody, tutu or no tutu!
My first pair of online shoe orders should arrive sometime today.
I was looking at corsets online, because it looks like this would help to train my waist a bit, but I'm right in the middle of losing weight (down already to 195 from 205 a few weeks ago), so I thought I'd wait until I've gotten myself down to my racing weight - hopefully I'll be losing quite a few more inches off the waist, so no point in buying an expensive thing like a corset and then finding it's too big in a few weeks!
I also looked at breast forms, but the one website I scanned, they seemed to be really expensive. If anybody has any good tips for online sources of reasonably priced forms (just to fill out that bra and give me some weight to make it feel more realistic than a sock), and reasonably priced corsets, then please do tell (hope it's ok to talk about this sort of thing on the forums, if not then email or PM is fine).
Thanks again!
Meow
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 16, 2009, 10:50:22 AM
I also looked at breast forms, but the one website I scanned, they seemed to be really expensive. If anybody has any good tips for online sources of reasonably priced forms (just to fill out that bra and give me some weight to make it feel more realistic than a sock)
Do you want weight, feel, appearance, or ... ? You can make your own if money is an issue. Water in balloon, seeds in nylons etc. Or you can buy foam breast form which is cheap, they'll give you the shape & appearance, but obviously not the weight or colour. Silicone breast enhancers (cheaper than full breast form) are also available which for a small enough frame person apparently can give AA or A cup. Search around on the internet, there's lots of information on DIY breast form.
I think I'm looking for the natural feel, not just shape, so I guess that means one of the silicone forms. I saw some that cost around $150, which seems a lot but I guess you get what you pay for. I think I'll wait before I buy too much more, since I currently seem to be losing weight quite fast (I was about 203 lbs a few weeks ago, but I've been running and rowing every day, and today I weighed in at 195 lbs - still a lot of fat to dispose of, but progress is definitely being made). I need to wait and see where I end up before buying too much in the way of clothes etc.
Thanks again!
Meow
Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 12, 2009, 01:35:17 AM
Meow
p.s. One more thing: I don't think I am gay, like I said previously I just am not attracted to men. However... I think that when I imagine myself as a woman, then I could possibly start finding men attractive - but only in the sense that this would help to contribute to solidifying my identity as a total woman. Does that make any sense?
It makes perfect sense Meow, Iv always found it hard to explain, but you'v taken the words right out of my mouth, very hard to explain without offending somebody, but if I thought 30years ago I was now going to marry a man I say thats impossible, Im not gay, but since I transition and partcularly since my final surgery srs, I find having sex with a man makes me feel more of a woman, particularly when the man finds me attractive and I satisfied the man I feel more of a woman, early next year I am marrying a man, my current boyfriend.
Iv read your posts, you are a woman, but its a long journey, Iv had a lot of surgery, Id now never pass as male even if I wanted to, start your journey and go for it, girl, take each step and stage slowly and enjoy the changes.
p
Thanks, Pauline! I have to admit it feels good to have someone tell me I am a woman. I am a guy who wants to be a woman. Hmm, I am either very confused, or else I have a long road ahead of me... hopefully the latter, because that would be an awesome journey to make. I just wish I'd started earlier...
Meow
We all do, Meow. We all do.