OK, so I am looking if anyone can help me out with explaining what my mum was trying to get across to me... We were discussing how she feels about this whole transition thing and as I have stated before my folks are really supportive, but she said to me today that me telling her I am trans was a lot easier to accept and understand than when I told her I was lesbian.
I didn't get to explore why and get an explanation unfortunately and can't stop thinking about it now - why?? I can't even fathom some far out idea of why and wondering if any of you guys out there can help me out??
Any bros had a similar experience?? Sisters please share too...
Cheers in advance,
Jay
People just view it from different angles. They grasp things from different views.
Maybe you could discuss it with her later.
Cheers yeah its obviously a conversation I'll need to have at some stage... Just curious if anyone had any sort of similar responses from friends or family after coming out... Then coming out again.
Maybe...Being born with a birth defect like being trans is ok but in her mind, same sex relationships are not kosher. Since your trans, you can't be a lesbian. At least in her thoughts perhaps.
DISCLAIMER:I'm not good at reading minds much less the mind of someone I've never met, seen nor conversed with.
I've heard this from other FTMs. Their parents prefer a straight trans child to a gay cisgender one. It's kind of weird to me, but I can sort of get it. ??? Sort of.
My Mom didn't come out and say that exactly but I know that's how she feels. She was more disturbed by the fact I'd been with women than the fact I'm trans. In her case, it's due to religion. It's easier for her to see being trans as something I had no choice in.
Dad's the same way.
Because being a lesbian means you are a female with a female - you outwardly show as "different." It's easy to recognize a lesbian couple (if they want to be, of course). Being trans means you look and identify as male - so you aren't "technically" a lesbian.
That's how i would interpret.
My parents know i don't "discriminate" based on gender - i won't cut out one half of the population just because they're MY gender. When i fully transition i WILL keep that ideal. I could end up with a male or female partner - when i finally decide it's the right time to start looking.
And THAT is where MY dad will blow a fuse. Right now he blissfully ignores that fact about me (and will continue to do so unless i bring someone home.) Not only will he be losing his "baby girl" (in his mind, though in reality his CHILD won't be going anywhere) but his "baby girl" will be a transsexual homosexual (or a homosexual transsexual - take your pick.)
Fun times ahead... :o
I got the same talk from my grandmother. Something to do with I'll blend in better with accepted society once I completely transition. Then again your mom might just have taken it like mine and figured "well she's gay, now she's going to be a he, how much worse can it get?". Either way, atleast you're fortunate enough to have accepting parents right?
Thanks for the replies all. I guess yeah the big picture is - they're still talking to me! Was just trying to get my head around what she meant. I definitly get the whole - oh what now sort of mentality!! You know your gay, now trans - not much worse sort of thing!
I spose lesbian = completely different to 'normal' in her view. Whereas trans, although not 'normal' = people will not know unless told... I dunno :-\
Cheers again
Jay
NB: Sorry I'm not using the word 'normal' like it's better or anything like that, hope I'm not offending anyone - remember I'm ftm too!
my mom said the same thing. I came out as a lesbian over 20 years ago she lost it. I had to move out and work full time my last year of high school in order to support myself. Trans she got over really quickly and when I ask why the different reaction she just said its easier to deal with, would not elaborate.
Andrew
Quote from: jaydle83 on December 09, 2009, 03:16:22 AM
telling her I am trans was a lot easier to accept and understand than when I told her I was lesbian.
I'm hoping this is how things will go down with my own mother. When I told her I was a lesbian, she was very plain and accepting. Came back to me over a week later, and told me she'd done her research, that it
probably wasn't my choice, and that she was ok with it. (Very Christian)
The idea that Transsexual-ness is much easier to accept as 'not being a choice' can plausibly make it more acceptable to the sort of people with whom homosexuality would be a problem.
Oddly enough, my mother actually took me being trans badly...but once I admitted I was bi, she was fine with the trans thing. It was like me being bi "validated" being trans for her.
I think my mom took the lesbian thing as all about sex where to her trans is about gender and that is easier for her to think about.
Based on what she has said t me in the past she sees being a lesbian as a choice and all about sex and I wonder if she sees trans as a birth defect (meaning I was born with the wrong parts)? Not sure will be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next 20 years.
Andrew
Quote from: myles on December 09, 2009, 02:16:54 PMBased on what she has said to me in the past she sees being a lesbian as a choice and all about sex and I wonder if she sees trans as a birth defect (meaning I was born with the wrong parts)?
While I personally don't believe that sexual preference is a choice either, it is true we were born in the wrong sex's body. It's scientifically believed that ->-bleeped-<- happens while in the womb.
Some parents feel very strongly that there are biblical injunctions about homosexuality but none against sex change. I mean, I think there might be one passage about cross dressing or something like that...but the ancients don't seem to have anticipated sex change.
Quote from: Arch on December 09, 2009, 04:27:58 PM
Some parents feel very strongly that there are biblical injunctions about homosexuality but none against sex change. I mean, I think there might be one passage about cross dressing or something like that...but the ancients don't seem to have anticipated sex change.
The ancients didn't see such a problem with homosexuality (well, male bisexuality to be exact) either.
Wow... interesting. I didn't think it was this common to disclose sexual orientation before gender.
Seems I'm the odd guy out!
I don't think cis people can ever really seperate sexual orientation and gender identity. I also suspect in the minds of many cis people - once you don't conform to the hetronomitive, you don't conform (and it doesn't matter how - all they think is "different").
I'm thinking they just react badly with the first disclosure out of shock-horror-probe that you don't conform. The later disclosure (ie, a change in how you don't conform) must seem a pretty moot point to them once they've dealt with your non-conformity.
Then again, if I knew what went on in people's heads - I'd write cleverly crafted slightly incomplete pop-psychology books under the pen name of Captain Obvious and make craploads of money. I'm currently broke - so this post is probably way off the mark :laugh:.
Quote from: SilverFang on December 09, 2009, 05:12:01 PM
The ancients didn't see such a problem with homosexuality (well, male bisexuality to be exact) either.
Yes, that's why I said that some parents
feel that the Bible condemns homosex. From what I've read, even that document's (supposed) anti-gay passages aren't what people think. And then there are other ancient cultures that weren't based on the Old and/or New Testaments...
My mom still thinks I'm a lesbian, despite the fact that I dig guys more than chicks and look, for all intents and purposes, like a dude. Go figure.
Oh, and she thinks lesbians are reprehensible, based upon her adherence to what are probably mistranslations of Biblical verses. Gotta love extremists.
SD
Quote from: Arch on December 09, 2009, 04:27:58 PM
Some parents feel very strongly that there are biblical injunctions about homosexuality but none against sex change. I mean, I think there might be one passage about cross dressing or something like that...but the ancients don't seem to have anticipated sex change.
That clothing thing had to do with the fact that men would dress as women so they wouldn't have to go to war and vice versa. ;)
Lot's of things in the bible aren't really about what we've been told. For instance, 'man' can also be a term used for 'child' and since there was a big pedophilia problem back then, it's likely a lot of passages condemning homosexuality are in fact about pedophilia, which would make a lot more sense.
Oh yeah, and my mother will probably be the same way.
She thinks gays are mentally ill. Eh, it bothers me a bit but not like I can talk her out of it.
Anyone else heard of Francis Garcia? She seems to be quite supportive of her (maybe she thinks she just wanted to perform in female clothes?) But called her a he. She doesn't hate gays for who they are, but has something against them all. And especially has something against bisexuals.
I think it's easier for them to see transsexuality as a birth defect. Plus they don't have to worry that you'll never fit into that neat little binary, if you didn't it would cause them more stress than it should for some reason.
Quote from: Teknoir on December 09, 2009, 05:46:55 PM
Wow... interesting. I didn't think it was this common to disclose sexual orientation before gender.
Seems I'm the odd guy out!
Then you are not the lone odd guy. I never told anyone my orientation except to my youngest daughter. and then only cause she asked.
Same. I told my mother I was trans long before I disclosed my sexual orientation.
I suppose it's very stereotypical of me to say but I figured a lot (not all) ftm's did a stint in the lesbian community?? Hmm its nice to be wrong sometimes!
I am beginning to see why my mum said this hey... Not that I condone the whole oh you can still be normal mentality, I just wanted to understand what she meant when all she has done is read trans books and ask me questions and help me!! Just trying to return the favour!
Cheers guys, all valid points and your input is much appreciated.
Jay
hate to break it to you but there is no lesbian or gay community where I live.
Sorry to hear that dude... I didn't actually mean a literal community lol, just that imo people have the misconception that all ftm's were lesbians first. It is interesting to hear otherwise that's all. I personally was never really into the lesbian scene. There was just something that always felt different - like I didn't really belong. Because I didn't! They were happy to identify as women loving women and I never thought of myself that way. And it was really difficult to accept it at first and when people would ask me even partners 'are you gay?' I would say 'no, I just love her/you'... Funny when I think of it now. And now being trans changes my label again -but I havn't changed at all!!
I never really knew how my mother felt til she said. I didn't know she had a difficulty with it til I told her I was trans. I mean when I told her I was lesbian I moved out for a number of months and didn't speak to her, and there was the whole 'oh where did I go wrong as a mother' etc conversation/screaming session we had way back when...
Mum's can be pretty good actors when it comes down to it I suppose... Then there are always their not so subtle moments as well!!
I never really felt the urge to be part of a lesbian or gay community. I tried the LBGT alliance in high school for a year, but was never really that into it. To me orientation is just who you are and isn't something to be fawned over and paraded around (similar to my views on race, sex or anything else that you're just born with and didn't work at to earn--but that is a discussion for another time and another place). More the power to those that fit into those communities...just not for me.
So, I also never did a stint as a lesbian (avoided being categorized as such like the plague, actually) nor was a part of the LBGT community outside of this forum.
Well, you did ask for the ladies' opinions. Hope I don't reflect too badly on them... ^_^
Anyway, it does seem that people are more accepting of trans-ness as something foisted upon you, whereas because they made it through adolescence without giving into the fantasies, homosexuality's a 'choice'.
Also, as noted, lesbians are immediately identifiable as such. Girl + transguy are not IDable unless they give it away. Girl + transgirl are out of luck entirely. (Oh well.)
For some reason, people tend to think that you'll be attracted to the opposite of the gender you'll hold after transition (i.e. if you become a guy, you'll like girls). For example, I like girls. My mother knows this full well. It's blatantly obvious. But upon telling her "I wanna be a girl" she says afterwards, "So do you like boys, or..?"
instead of worry about how much you'll stand out, i would put my money on the ideas a few have said about her regarding transsexuality as a physical birth defect vs. homosexuality which is something that goes on in the head.
i am a methodist, and i pretty much agree with my church's official stance on homosexuality which is... no official stance. we don't know if it's right or wrong and feel that it's God's business to judge. any LGB people are totally welcome at church and Bible studies, etc.. just if they want to get married, the church says "uh..... really sorry but we can't marry you in the actual church, try the courthouse?? invite us to the reception though!! "
so for me, transsexuality is much easier to accept because being a birth defect, it is just like blindness or deafness. something went physically wrong, but it's no fault of that person, just something unfortunate that doesn't affect your relationship with God at all. however, homosexuality is kind of touchy because of the whole whether-or-not it's a perversion or totally alright is still debated.
I've never been involved or had interest in the gay & lesbian community. I never had interest because I'm neither. I despise the thought of being seen as lesbian (even by a lover).
I'm just a guy who likes women. It would be like calling a guy you know a lesbian, always referring to him as one and even his lover sees him as one. He'd be like WTF? ??? I may be wrong, but I'm sure many gay people are offended by being called straight when people know they're not. Is this true?
I think I'm getting it better now... I really never knew she felt that way when I was living as a lesbian. That kinda sucks :-\
Everyone has put forth really valid points here so thanks guys and girls. I suppose when I realised I was trans I thought that would be the worst thing I could tell my parents. Well it felt like it, I mean they have raised me for the past 20 odd years, changed nappys etc... I thought to tell them I wanted to transition they would feel like I was killing their 'daughter' (not that they ever really hada little 'girl' as I have never been a girly-girl) but I figured when I came out as lesbian it was no big deal... Like it was just fine print you know.
How backwards was my thinking! Like I don't care what anyone else does - do what makes you happy I say (so long as you're not hurting anyone), I suppose I don't realise how un-accepting the world still is.