so i was in this bar it is well known lgbt club here in denver and this guy comes up to me at my table and asks point blank if im trans so i look him in the eye and say yes...(im armed by the way all off duty cops must be armed and mines in my purse) he says kewls and offers to buy me a drink so i let him. Now after heathers post on ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s ( i really hate that word) im a little leary of him he tells me his name is doug that he's bi and he thinks women with that little something extra between their legs are sexy as hell (bleh) more alarm bells so i tell him i dont like to use it.. and he says so you dont like it sucked.... Embarressing im sure im red as a beet at this point i say its ok but sometimes lately its painfull but as far as penetrating anything bleh id rather not thank you.. so he says i like doing the penetrating but i also like to suck ..wtf so im not sure how to read this guy he's cute but in a way im freaked out bye him most of my male relations have been with gay guys not bi...anyrates we danced a little then i went home i didnt give him my number he gave me his but i trashed it any thoughts on this sort of thing
jessica
Bleh, sounds like a bit of a creep.
You did the right thing Jessica. Just walk away sloooowly and... run!
In all seriousness, this sort of thing is what scares me a bit about transitioning. There are a lot of creeps out there and they would never understand why we actually don't like what's between our legs. Bleh is the right word for it!
Alexie. :)
there was one point in the conversation where i asked him if he had ever dated transwoman before and he said once and he never really got over her and that she had moved away which i thought was sweet he stated that we were like exotic but worth the hunt..this made me smile... i dont know if its from years off being told your crap for being who you are or whatever but it is the reason i agreed to a dance i think heather is right they know the words to weasle their way into your mind it sucks really because i all ever wanted was to be loved for who i am
jessica
Yes.. condensed thoughts of thousands of other transsexuals in transition who have had attention from a guy who 'likes the thing between your legs'.. He's seeing you as a guy! Is that what you want? If he still comes onto you next time you see him tell him he needs to go to the nearest 'cottage/tea room' where he can have all the penis he wants. And if he is such a devotee of penis you have to wonder about his cleanliness.
There are nice guys out there so go where they are...which is not in the lgbt places!
2 words: ->-bleeped-<- .... ->-bleeped-<-!
heh
I've heard this same story from guys practically word for word. It's always the same, they like to be the "man" and do all the penetrating, they just like that little "extra" for oral, they see you as a woman but with that little "extra"...blah blah blah. Eventually it all comes back to them wanting to be penetrated and see having it done by a transwoman more acceptable to their fragile little psyches. Strangely enough I've heard the same 'Oh I used to date a TS woman years ago but she moved away. We were very much in love and blah blah blah...'. Uh huh, ok, wasn't born yesterday.
My advice..skip him.
btw..your department allows off-duty carry in bars/clubs? I'm a former police officer and that's always been the one no-no even for mandatory off-duty carry. Just thought that was interesting.
Take off the heels and run very fast to the nearest exit. You did good, Jesse.
A regular El Creepo.
Blessed Be
Janet
It's a shame he read you as a T. If he read you as a female he wouldn't be interested, that is the irony of it all.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on December 16, 2009, 12:03:25 PM
It's a shame he read you as a T. If he read you as a female he wouldn't be interested, that is the irony of it all.
Exactly! If someone likes you BECAUSE you're trans....that's a bit different from someone liking you for the woman you are but being accepting of the fact that you're trans also.
btw..your department allows off-duty carry in bars/clubs? I'm a former police officer and that's always been the one no-no even for mandatory off-duty carry. Just thought that was interesting.
Me too, our clubs will not let an off-duty police officer carry in the club, they have to put their gun in the safe, or take it back to their car. We even have an off duty cops on our security staff for the big crazy shows, and he does not carry either.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on December 16, 2009, 12:03:25 PM
It's a shame he read you as a T. If he read you as a female he wouldn't be interested, that is the irony of it all.
I think that's the first thing you've ever said that I agree with lol.
Honestly, I prolly would have let him screw my brains out then would have been suprised when he started getting weird so thanks for this thread.
If you are in a well known lgbt club its an easy assumption.
I know, and it makes sense in writing...but it's harder to make good decisions where men are involved when they are sitting there making you feel like the center of the universe.
Maybe he really did just want to see her gun, what a let down. I'm sorry honey. I've met some pretty good guys in the library, and I actually met an awesome one (I think) at the grocery store last night so hang in there cause they do exist...it's just most of the good ones are taken :eusa_think:
One thing I know for sure is people like us have to be very careful. Although I am very feminine and pass well I am constantly alert for dangerous situations. Your encounter screams red flags and I would be very afraid. As a woman I want to be romanced and get to know someone well before I am intimate. A GG would be turned off by this cad. When I was first intimate with a man it was with a friend of a friend who was gentle, respectful and caring. We did not discuss specific sex acts and things just progressed naturally. When he finally took me I felt very feminime and good and was glad I was not a slam bam thank you mam.
Pam
A GG would be turned off by this cad.
Oh don't be so sure, good girls make bad choices every single night.
QuoteOne thing I know for sure is people like us have to be very careful
I kind of have to say
whatever. Several months ago I got the everliving crap beat out of me by someone I loved and trusted. I couldn't have been more careful. If I had been armed like Jesse was, he would be dead because I would have shot him in the face until he didn't have a face anymore...and I've been out a couple times since then with other people and have been treated nothing but gently and respectfully. Like Tekla mentioned we kind of have to keep the venue in mind...what do you expect from a gay bar?
Sure a genetic girl would have been turned off by that guy and that seems to be the consensus here too but meh; this is kind of what we have to pick from right now. So maybe we don't want to make life plans around these people but lordy I'm really tired of sleeping alone and my brother's dog just stinks my place up. Personally I hold pretty closely to exchange theory in terms of relationships, and if I get companionship and a pair of strong arms around me I don't think this guys terms sound completely unworkable. I'd have to decline on all grounds if he started wanting to be penetrated though, but the way you folks are talking every genetic male who wants to have sex with one of us is a ->-bleeped-<- and we should run away run away.
QuoteWhen I was first intimate with a man it was with a friend of a friend who was gentle, respectful and caring.
Seriously? My first time and a lot of people's firsts was with a clumsy, conflicted, self-hating closet case who wouldn't even look me in the eye. I ended up sleeping with his sister too (hey you should try everything once) and she at least would talk to me, lol.
Anyway that's just my take on it. I don't think I have ever met a bona fide "->-bleeped-<-" so I could be full of it for all I know and they are the devil. I dunno, time will tell I guess because if something is trouble I can guarantee I'll find it eventually.
Quote from: BrandiOK on December 16, 2009, 10:37:56 AM
I've heard this same story from guys practically word for word. It's always the same, they like to be the "man" and do all the penetrating, they just like that little "extra" for oral, they see you as a woman but with that little "extra"...blah blah blah. Eventually it all comes back to them wanting to be penetrated and see having it done by a transwoman more acceptable to their fragile little psyches. Strangely enough I've heard the same 'Oh I used to date a TS woman years ago but she moved away. We were very much in love and blah blah blah...'. Uh huh, ok, wasn't born yesterday.
My advice..skip him.
btw..your department allows off-duty carry in bars/clubs? I'm a former police officer and that's always been the one no-no even for mandatory off-duty carry. Just thought that was interesting.
actually brandi most bars in denver employ off duty so yeppers not an issue with my agencie
That's been my experience with all but one guy. Once I told them I was trans and they were o.k. with it they immediately wanted to know if they could suck and be fu--ed...and I said "no I don't use it EVER" , to which they replied "why not? O come on you shouldn't be ashamed of what you have" blah blah....."I've never told anyone this, but I did things with my best friend a few years ago". It's so funny when they say that like it's a big secret cuz most of them say that. I would try to explain things a little more but it was always a lost cause. Once they knew I was trans it was all about the one thing I want to be rid of most. Spending 20 minutes arguing about my stuff is not my idea of a turnon. "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-" doesn't really apply for most of them because they were surprised when I told them.
if you look back at the recent history of my department you will find were 2 off duty officers employed at a tavern shot a patron to death as he was leaving the bar. he attempted to run over them with his car after being ordered to exit the vehicle. both officers were armed inside the property and were the altercation started. The shooting was ruled justifiable. Denver and colorado in general gives its officers alot of leway towards use of force. You may recall the coke can shooting or the shoting of a teenager fleeing the property of a city council member after having been seen jumping over the rear fence of her property. not saying any of this is right or just...just that it is the way it is here.
jessica
Wasn't referring as much to off duty working at at bar/club as much as off duty officers out for the evening in a bar/club. I thought it was pretty much the same around the country that if you are going to a bar/club or establishment who's main service is selling alcohol, whether you drink or not, your weapon is not permitted to be on your person. Not really debating the right or wrong of it..I just found it interesting.
btw..it's cool that you're a police officer. Are you living full-time and working? I considered going back to it at one time but just didn't want to put up with all the inevitable crap.
no im not living ft yet but there is three officers in my department that have fully transitioned on the job so alot of presidence for it lol...i quess the best answer for your question is that its not specifically stated that we can not be armed if were going out for the evening but i assume un-officially its frowned at drinking and guns dont mix. i have never heard of an officer diciplined for it anyways.
jessica
I asked an acqunaintance about these two points and he said his wife can carry her concealed carry offduty aqs she is a Fed agent rather than a cop,, and she transitioned on the job and as she scores highest in all the markmanship tests she gets the respect but she does say that on dangerous stakeouts and incidents the guys do seem to actually keep a careful eye on her as though they are accepting her as a 'weaker' woman .
So yep transitioning is possible. Just the usual first day novelty crap to face really.
AURORA Sentinal| "A week after Aimee Wilcoxson was found dead in her north Aurora home, her friends say they still have questions about the transgender woman's death.
"None of it makes sense to us," said Imani Latif, executive director of It Takes A Village, the nonprofit organization where Wilcoxson worked.
More than 30 friends of Wilcoxson gathered Wednesday night near It Takes a Village at East Colfax Avenue and Lima Street to remember the woman who they say loved to laugh, loved Madonna and who advocated for other transgender women who, like her, had been diagnosed with HIV.
Wilcoxson, 34, had been living as a woman for more than 10 years, friends say."
anouther candle for next year... ruled suicide family believes she was beaten to death
jessica
Post Merge: December 22, 2009, 02:41:56 AM
No disrespect Tasha but i wont out them on here
hugs
jessica
ruled suicide family believes she was beaten to death
I'd be interested in more information here. For the most part MEs/Coroners/Crime Science Geeks do tend to be honest - and its really hard to mistake a beating for a suicide. I would think it would be all but impossible to beat yourself to death in any way that it would not be obvious that that's what happened.
Friends reject police's take on transgender woman's death
with 31 comments
Another name for TDOR:
AURORA | A week after Aimee Wilcoxson was found dead in her north Aurora home, her friends say they still have questions about the transgender woman's death.
"None of it makes sense to us," said Imani Latif, executive director of It Takes A Village, the nonprofit organization where Wilcoxson worked.
More than 30 friends of Wilcoxson gathered Wednesday night near It Takes a Village at East Colfax Avenue and Lima Street to remember the woman who they say loved to laugh, loved Madonna and who advocated for other transgender women who, like her, had been diagnosed with HIV.
Wilcoxson, 34, had been living as a woman for more than 10 years, friends say.
Police found Wilcoxson dead in her home in the 1600 block of Lima Street on Nov. 3.
Police aren't releasing many details about the case, but said investigators believe Wilcoxson took her own life.
"Detectives feel that all the evidence in the case points to a suicide," said Aurora police spokesman Detective Bob Friel.
Friel said police are waiting for a toxicology exam from the Adams County Coroner's office, which could take up to six weeks to complete.
The coroner's office has ruled the cause of death "undetermined" and is waiting on toxicology results, said Adams County Coroner Jim Hibbard.
But Wilcoxson's friends say she was a happy person with a lot to look forward to and wouldn't have killed herself. They say she was murdered.
"We think there was foul play," Latif said.
Latif said one of Wilcoxson's neighbors found her dead in her bed Nov. 3. The neighbor said there was broken furniture in the home and that there was blood on the mattress where Wilcoxson lay, Latif said.
Friel said police can't comment specifically about those claims and reiterated that evidence in the case points to a suicide.
Latif said investigators told Wilcoxson's friends that the blood was from Wilcoxson's body decomposing and that she likely overdosed on pills.
But Latif argues that there wasn't enough time for the body to decompose — friends spoke to her Sunday and her body was found Monday. And, she said, Wilcoxson had been followed home before and complained about "tweakers" hanging out around her home, Latif said.
Wilcoxson's friends say they believe she was beaten to death, though they don't know by who or why.
Hibbard, the Adams County coroner, said there were no obvious signs of trauma to Wilcoxson's body and that if anyone knows more about her death, they need to contact police.
Latif said Wilcoxson also wasn't the type to kill herself.
She said Wilcoxson was diagnosed with terminal cancer early this year and that one of the things that bothered her most was that she wouldn't be alive to see Madonna play at the Pepsi Center this month.
When doctors told her she had been misdiagnosed, the Madonna concert was one of the things Wilcoxson was looking forward to most, Latif said.
"We know that if she was going to commit suicide, she wouldn't have done it a week before the Madonna concert," she said.
article by lisa Harney
Wilcoxson had been followed home before and complained about "tweakers" hanging out around her home
Well than that's sure not it. Tweakers (speed freaks/meth heads) though violent and pretty much brain-damaged level stupid are not exactly the most subtle of criminals, and when meth+violence comes into play the results tend to be a bloodbath of rage+lust+overkill. I.E. there would not be blood on the mattress, there would be blood everywhere.
"We know that if she was going to commit suicide, she wouldn't have done it a week before the Madonna concert,"
I don't know which is sadder, wanting to kill yourself, or having this be your reason to live.
I'm going to just throw this out there because I'm still in that cd/tv spot in all this. Why do I want to be with a TS? I have a diagnosed split personality. I'm bisexual by default not by choice. When I'm intimate with a man(I have never been while dressed) I love the sex but don't get a emotional connection from it. Fantasizing in my mind dressed as a woman, I think that would happen.
When I'm with a GG I have trouble climaxing. I'm doing traditional str8 sex.
Once again I have never been dressed in woman's cloths while intimate.
I never really fantasize about being with a GG dressed up. The reason I want to be with like minded people at my stage is that I could feel safe there.
I'm not in transition so I'm sure if I ever do my mind will change. I can't dress as a woman full time but I would say Mindy dominates all the time. I'll keep letting the therapist tell me I have a split personality I know it's me slowly transitioning to a TS. When I dress as Mindy I rarely care if I'm sexual or not, that is not why I do it.
For now I sit in this loneliness wondering if I can ever find someone guy,GG,Ts that would accept me as me weather that is in bed or more importantly out of it.
The only reason I posted this is that ya the guy was kind of creepy for letting his fantasies come out in his pick up line but maybe there is an underlying reason he seeks out trans women.
Thanks for listening to the POV from a newbie.
hugs,
Mindy
hugs mindy
jessica
Post Merge: December 23, 2009, 02:40:19 AM
Quote from: tekla on December 22, 2009, 09:39:58 AM
I don't know which is sadder, wanting to kill yourself, or having this be your reason to live.
lol tekla
Quote from: jesse on December 23, 2009, 02:38:49 AM
hugs mindy
jessica
Post Merge: December 23, 2009, 02:40:19 AM
lol tekla
Thanks Jessica, you are a sweet one, filled with inner and outer beauty
A few comments here:
As to the guns in bars issue, it simply varies from state to state and I'm sure it varies between law enforcement and civilians. I'm not a police officer of any kind but I do carry a pistol for personal protection. Arizona may be different than Colorodo and I don't know Colorado law.
I don't know what the policy in Arizona is for law enforcement but Arizona law prohibits civilians from openly carrying guns into bars or restaurants that serve alcohol whether they drink or not. Arizona law does allow concealed carry in bars and restaurants that serve alcohol as long as the civilian has a concealed carry permit, does not drink alcohol while on the premises, and the establishment is not properly posted "No Firearms Allowed." I carry my gun almost everywhere I go because I value my life and my safety. Carrying openly in a bar, consuming alcohol, or carrying in violation of signage are considered misdemeanors here and you are not likely to get in serious trouble for it. You will likely be simply asked to leave the club but a police officer could write you a ticket but probably wouldn't arrest you if you weren't being mouthy with them. I do personally think the same care should be taken with guns as with cars and heavy machinery. If you are going to get intoxicated, don't carry and don't drive.
Enough about that. As to Jesse's point, the encounter sounded suspicious from the get-go and you are not the only one Jesse. I run into this crap all the time. Now to be fair, there are transsexuals who are non-ops and actually like using their man parts but identify as female and want the rest of their bodies to be female (i.e. face, chest, etc.). Just as there are bisexuals, there are bigendered people and transgendered people who are not 100% one way or the other. I value this diversity in life.
Unfortunately, as you mentioned a lot of "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s" are into non-ops and pre-ops. There is nothing wrong with that as long as they treat us with respect and dignity for who we are. I have nothing against such diverse sexuality. The problem here is that a lot of these guys are not respectful. If that same man had gone up to a GG (genetic girl) and started talking about sucking, licking, ->-bleeped-<-ing, etc. he would probably be slapped in the face or she would get the bouncer and he would be tossed out of the place. Talking that way in most workplaces would get you fired. Anybody who would have the nerve to walk up to a stranger in a public place and immediately start asking about their genitals followed by discussions on their sexually explicit needs is a pretty sick person in my opinion.
What ever happened to normalcy and decency? It clearly is a respect issue. A gentleman who respects others and expects to be respected in return is going to behave accordingly. They will sit down with you and first introduce themselves (Hi, how are you, etc.) and ask non-controversial questions. At this point, race, religion, gender, etc. should not even be in the discussion. As the conversation goes on and the two of you are getting more comfortable then I can see the questions getting gradually more personal (i.e. "I apologize if I offend you in any way but can I ask if you are trans?"). Depending on how comfortable both parties are acting in the conversation should determine whether the questions become focused on pre-op, post-op, non-op status, transitioning, etc. As to graphic sex discussions and questions, they really shouldn't even be asked until you have danced, kissed, and shown enough interest in each other that even the bartender may be wondering if it is time for you two to leave and get a room.
Maybe I've just grown up differently than some people but I was taught to be respectful of other people's privacy, space, and needs. This is why I try to hang out in higher-end nightclubs because I run into less of these crap people although some of them still slip through the cracks. If this happens a lot Jesse, my advice is to check out some other nightclubs in the area. If you ever come down to Arizona I would recommend sticking to the Scottsdale, AZ hangouts for the most part.
I would even go so far as to say that such behavior is outright misongynistic. Would the same "gentleman" walk up to a GG and ask if her vagina was shaven? Her breast cup size? If she likes her clit licked? In almost any respectable establishment, he would be asked to leave and probably never return and he'd be lucky if she didn't hit him square in the nose. Sadly, these same characters feel they can get away with it with transwomen. This proves only one thing: they don't respect us and a term for it would be transmisogyny. If they did, they simply wouldn't ask those types of questions at least until it was obvious to both parties that the time has come to "extend things" after the bar close.
We all handle things differently. If anyone does that to me I will not hesitate to tell them off and I would definitely get the security and try to get him kicked out. If they are that desperate for sex that they don't care to know the person, there is a solution for that: prostitution. That way nobody is required to play games, offend, or get offended. They simply pay their money, get what they want, and the deed is done. I'm not going to advocate that lifestyle but it is my personal opinion that such guys who behave that way don't really deserve a woman other than a prostitute and they aren't likely to get a woman either at least not for very long acting that way.
Hope it goes better for you next time you go out! Britney
Think if I'd been in your position, I'd have played it slow at first till I was as sure as I could be that he wasn't a psycho.
Then I'd have jumped in for a bit of fun.
I understand the points several people made here, ->-bleeped-<--->-bleeped-<-s seems to sum things up.
But we are what we are.
Not second best. I'm not second to anyone, even if some think I am.
I'm me.
As always it is very difficult to just have a friendly conversation with a man, it nearly always turn very fast into a discussion about sex.
For me i would have told them that i don't date and that before i had surgery i wouldn't have any sex.
the Irony is that they love us for being transgender, but being transgender is something we face not something we love or happy about being transgender.
they love in us the little extra we have, but we hate that little extra. so canthe relationship be successful?
Post Merge: December 26, 2009, 05:25:20 AM
Quote from: Becca on December 16, 2009, 10:55:38 PM
what do you expect from a gay bar?
would it be better a straight bar, isn't there more change of facing transphobia in a straight bar where they never seen a transgender girl?
if everyone in the gay bar is Gay then they will not be interested but instead be friendly.
As for me i tend to go to Lesbian bars not that i identify as lesbian, i am just avoiding men since i had few bad experiences.
He is bi for sure. like in the gay sense of the word. I would have slapped him in the face and left. what a jerk!
Quote from: yabby on December 26, 2009, 05:21:08 AM
would it be better a straight bar
What I was getting at is that it's better in no bar, lol
I've met people at school, in the library, the swimming pool, out walking, at therapy (lol) and even at the grocery store.
Many men don't show any consideration. There's a difference between having a high sex drive as a male, and failing to see anything in women besides a sexual tool for one to satiate one's lust with.
That and well, unfortunately there's a strong stereotype of transwomen being sexually driven through their transition. Simply treat ANY man who would obnoxiously impose his desires on you that way as a threat and remove him. They have bouncers for a reason.
Question: why the bloody blazes would you carry in a crowded area, in your purse nevertheless? Don't you view that as a highly unnecessary liability as compared to say, ankle, thigh, or waist placement?
Quote from: inoutallabout on December 26, 2009, 08:58:28 PM
That and well, unfortunately there's a strong stereotype of transwomen being sexually driven through their transition. Simply treat ANY man who would obnoxiously impose his desires on you that way as a threat and remove him. They have bouncers for a reason.
So far, every time a man offered me a drink in bar i did refuse to take the drink. Unless it is a friend of me.
By refusing the accept their drink offer they get a hint that i am not interested.
Real predators pick their prey long before the prey knows it's been chosen.
Quote from: tekla on December 27, 2009, 11:12:28 AM
Real predators pick their prey long before the prey knows it's been chosen.
Creepy>.< I suppose that if one were to be chosen like that, it'd pretty much be checkmate unless mr. predator made a mistake.
Quote from: Tasha Elizabeth on December 27, 2009, 10:57:34 AM
for example, they have bouncers for a reason, yes --
One day a bouncer saved me from a drunken client that overpowered me and was molesting me.
it is also often for bouncers to ask if i am doing ok and have no problem.
No predator bats 100%, I'm just saying that they have already done the surveillance and found the people with the right 'deer in the headlights' look and feel about them. They pick off people who are isolated in a physical sense to the rest of the room and people in it, and who are also obviously isolating themselves, i.e. not moving to be with a bigger group of people, but moving away - in other words, they have cut themselves off from the herd.
You rarely, if ever, have to worry about the guy who will try to pick you up or whatever while you're in the middle of a group (he may well be an egotistical ->-bleeped-<-, but he's not a predator), the people you worry about are those operating at the fringe, and they pick on people who have self-selected themselves to also be on the fringe. It's really weird to watch.
And they are not going for that super-confident person (again, that's the egomaniac who picks the hardest target in the room), the look you in the eyes type, the person with that certain swagger or sense of presence that implies that that they are part of this place, this scene, that in some sense they have some ownership in it. Matter of fact, I'm pretty much convinced that the first 'tell' of the prey is an unwillingness to meet people's eyes, like they don't want to be seen or recognized where they are.
Nobody is ever going to be 100% safe and everyone has different standards as well. Often, those standards get lower as more and more drinks are consumed. Personally, I like sex and I enjoy one-night stands with no strings attached. That doesn't mean I am not highly selective, however. I would much rather leave alone or with friends than leaving with the wrong person and having to deal with drama which could include anything from having a nuissance stalker to a wasted evening to having to get the police.
Again, anyone who is so quick to talk about sex in an explicit manner is someone to keep an eye on. Chances are they are already drunk. They are also not showing you any respect which means that it could get worse if you hang out with them after the club. The most common problem I've had when leaving with someone at a bar is that they become a pest. Once you leave with them, you can't seem to get rid of them.
Believe it or not I had an inappropriate incident at a Phoenix-area club last night. A girl (GG) came in who I've talked to many times and who is friendly but this time she came with her brother who decided to immediately pinch my butt. He then says "Wow, I never pinched a guy's butt before." Now I could have created a major scene but sometimes it is better to handle things in other ways. I simply told him point blank that you are not to touch me without my permission. The girl told me he meant no harm and I could see he was a bit drunk so she had talked him into apologizing to me which he did so I just left it at that. Generally, I will issue a person one stern warning and if it continues I will simply get the bouncer and have them deal with it. If it continues further, then I would question whether that it is a club I would want to hang out at and I would probably use physical force or even call the police to get it to stop. I have noticed a trend at clubs though that the more upscale the place is, the fewer you have these incidents and the rougher the bar is the more common. These things can happen anywhere but when they do happen in nicer places, you can generally count on the management to handle it appropriately and promptly.
As to the OP carrying a gun in her purse, this is what I generally do as well. Retention is important and naturally a gun grab is easier when the gun is in a purse vs. a retention holster. If the gun is concealed and you don't let people know you have it, it is less likely they will try to grab for it. I never leave my purse unattended, EVER. This includes in the company of even the best friends because someone could try to grab it from them. I always have it close by and keep one hand on it but not in a way to make it look like I'm paranoid. It is hard to conceal firearms in crowded clubs when holstered because of the close contact. The second someone hugs you or merely bumps into you, they are going to discover it. Even if the club does not have a sign prohibiting weapons, if it is brought to their attention by an uncomfortable customer, they would probably ask you to leave it in the car and it would be embarrassing. Some states allow open carry in drinking establishments but I wouldn't do it because it is socially awkward. A lot of people may think that if there are bouncers and it's a nice place, why do you need a gun? While needing it is probably highly unlikely, crime happens anywhere at any time. To me it is like a fire extinguisher. You aren't likely to need it but it is there in case you do.
I hope the OP comes back soon because she does seem like she has been in a lot of stress lately. Good luck.
Jesse didn't go anywhere, she's fine.
Britney, I'm a little worried about this advocating of carrying handguns, and I tend to disagree. If the guy in the store wanted a piece of you he would have called the rest of his friends and they would have had a piece of you, gun or not. The other way it could have gone is just to not go into a shady Frys in a bad neighborhood at night.
Most ->-bleeped-<-s (us) aren't going to be trained as soldiers and police in their appropriate use, and would more than likely just be carrying the instrument of their own demise. When it comes to fight or flight, flight is usually the better option. Some situation one might find themselves in where their lives were saved by a firearm might be one they would not have put themselves in if they weren't armed.
this is actually good advice becca guns have a bad habit of escalating a situation that may have been escapable prior to the weopon being drawn. i carry because im required to carry and since i dont frequent bars that often its not a big issue for me. all i can say is if your going to carry please seek training in its use and what constitutes a legal shooting. most importantly never ever pull a weopon if you dont have the will to use it. if you cant conceive of ever taking a life dont get a gun it could be the tool the offender uses to put you in the ground.
jessica
Like I said, it is up to the individual to decide. I'm simply stating what I have decided to do. I agree with Jesse that you need to have training on any weapons you decide to carry. I also agree Becca that it is better to avoid situations rather than enter them just because you can. I usually do avoid problematic places such as that Fry's but there are times where that isn't feasible. I may have been low on gas that time and had to go there on the way to somewhere else. Sometimes things simply come up but I do agree that the more you minimize putting yourself in risky situations, the more likely you will not have problems. Unless you live in gated mansions with limousine shouffers to take you everywhere and armed bodyguards, you are never going to be in the best places 100% of the time.
Overall, I do encourage TG people to take responsibility for their safety as much as possible. However one decides to do that is up to him or her. I couldn't help but notice, however, that the last 200+ hate crime murders listed on the TDOR website did not include even one story where the victim had a handgun and fought back. I fully believe that some of these crimes could have been prevented had the victim had a gun handy. Many others could have been prevented by the victim making wiser decisions about who they were hanging out with that day/night. Some of the crimes involved an intruder forcing their way into the victim's home. Home defense is much easier when you have a gun than when you don't. I wish we were in a perfect world but we aren't.
All I know is that if some crazy person decides that I need to die for being who I am and is coming at me with a kitchen knife, take a wild guess on whether or not I would prefer to have a gun within arm's reach. While I do believe a minimum level of training is important, I think there is an over-emphasis on training by some people. Driving a car, swimming, and bowling are all far more difficult activities than firing a gun. Reading up on one's state laws, being aware of their surroundings, regular practice at a range, and simply using common sense should be sufficient. You don't need "FBI" training like they show in the movies.
Anyway, welcome back Jesse!
thanks britney i agree since being our selfs puts us at risk far more readily then the average person i think we should consider protection my main point is insuring that if you are considering something that is or could be considered a lethal force weopon then please make sure what the laws are governing its use. Nothing would grieve me more then to show up at a shooting a transperson was involved in and have to arrest the trans person because the shooting was wrongful.
jessica
I guess I'll derail (and get back to the original post):
I think some of it depends on what you're looking for. Jessica-- sounds like the guy wanted something that you didn't, so I think you made the right decision.
I'm not sure I agree with everyone else that the guy was a sleaze, at least he was honest about what he wanted. As a trans woman, that's actually pretty good-- you know he's not going to freak out if you decide to go home with him and he discovers that you're pre-op. The surprise is what got Gwen Araujo killed (not that you'd be in the same situation, mind).
I forget who said It's a shame he read you as a T. If he read you as a female he wouldn't be interested, that is the irony of it all.
but I've noticed that in gay clubs or bars that I get clocked a lot, and I pass (or at least I think I do) in pretty much every other situation. It's a combination of height, build, voice and probably body language. There's only so much you can do if you're really tall or whatever. When I've been out, most of my friends ask me if I think whether such-and-such a person is trans-- it's usually just a masculine looking woman, though, and I've noticed that the tall girls tend to get singled out a lot.
As for the come on-- that's totally something I expect in a gay bar. I don't know why it is, but it seems like there's a lot more hooking up in gay bars than in straight ones. I may be overgeneralizing there, but it fits my experience-- most of my straight friends go to hang out and drink. My gay friends go to hang out, drink, and make out with strangers. I wonder if it has something to do with knowing the people at the bar all bat for the same team and you don't have to worry about stepping all over someone's hetero-normative privilege. ;)
there's a lot more hooking up in gay bars than in straight ones
I think that's true in places were there are only one or two gay bars. If you have gay neighborhoods you'll likely find a few of the same kind of tavern type establishments that every straight neighborhood has, but if you only have one it's going to be a meat market. Lot's of straight bars like that too.
A response to the original point:
If a guy wants something between your legs that's not a vagina, he's a big mistake--perhaps a dangerous mistake--waiting to happen. Make your regrets, and then keep your distance from him, but keep an eye out for him.
The creepy alarm doesn't go off for no reason....
If a guy wants something between your legs that's not a vagina, he's a big mistake--perhaps a dangerous mistake--waiting to happen
Of course if all he wants is a vagina between your legs, your not a real girl, or even a lover, your just a life support system for a pussy. Great alternative.
I can't believe you people are still ripping on that guy. It was a gay bar, presumably the meat market kind we discussed earlier. Transexuals are a pretty mixed group as far as our sexuality goes and well, you don't get what you want if you don't ask for it. I asked a professor to let me retake an exam last term, and rather than getting all weird and calling me a slacker student he listened to my reason why and made his decision. This is kind of the same concept just way kinkier...Being in a place like that can be construed as a sign that your'e looking. Give the poor guy a break, sheesh, his proposition was a little indecent but he's not the first douchebag out there and that doesn't make him psycho. My boyfriend once slapped my ass in a chinese restaurant and asked in a loud voice if I was going to "be his little slut" that night and I didn't draw a gun out of my purse and shoot him in the face.
and I didn't draw a gun out of my purse and shoot him in the face.
And you passed up on a chance like that? Hell, I would have shot him twice. Once for saying/doing that, and once more just for luck.
Ah, tekla, ever in touch with your femme side....
I agree Jesse. It is important to use common sense, know the laws, and especially avoid trouble if possible to begin with. Any action may have to be explained to a judge. This is why I try to hang out around better quality people in better quality establishments. It minimizes the risk of problems. When problems do arise, I try my best to de-escalate the situation as quickly as possible (i.e. if someone calls me a name I may pretend I didn't hear it). However, if a situation requires any type of force, it is important to know what level is allowed by law (i.e. if someone punches you in the face you can't shoot them but may be able to tase or mace him).
For everyone going out tonight for New Year's have a safe and happy night! Avoid problematic situations and if you drink too much, please don't drive. Happy New Year everyone. Britney :)
What's wrong with someone being attracted to your in between status? Assuming, of course, that it's not a deciding factor. Personality, beauty, and compatibility should take priority over anything else in attraction. But, what's wrong with finding a man with whom you can enjoy a normal sex life with and function just like any other couple? A man who completely respects and upholds your gender and your transition and can love you after surgery just the same.
It's as though any male who pursues relationships with transsexuals are automatically put in negative connotation with the term, "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-." Well, not all of them are that bad, just like not all guys are bad. Sure there's tons of men out looking for just one thing, but that's something even biowomen have to contend with when they're seeking companionship, even when they're looking for something long term.
Jesse just managed to be approached by a complete douche-bag. He could have just as easily been prince charming. Not all guys who go clubbing are there to hook up, there's plenty there simply to dance and have a good time.
This is why I try to hang out around better quality people in better quality establishments.
I tried to do that. Really I did. But whatever threat to my safety was counterbalanced by the feeling that I was going to die of boredom instead. Like Billy Joel said:
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
you know that only the good die young
But if you have OK people skills, and a bit of (very rare) common sense, the world is not as dangerous as people make it out to be. I know that all sorts of people think that New York City is some super dangerous place - that's the way it's depicted on TV, but in reality, when you consider the number of people who live there in relation to the crime rate, NYC is very safe. Perhaps not out in Bed-Sty, and not for people who tend to create problems with other people everywhere they go, but for the majority.
heres an update on this thread i go to this club fairly frequently its not a big place but it stays busy enough that i can meet interesting people. For the most part i dont run into guys like the one this thread was about its usually gay men or lesbian women that i meet. the nice thing is even though im read fairly frequently there as i havnt finished laser/electro on my face and my voice isnt that good yet. i dont mind. (im actually read less on the street) the people are usually respectful and call me by my gender presentation. This guy was a novelty for me. In hind site if he hadnt been so verbal about my body parts in public i may have even left with him. So it remains to be seen if the next guy like him is a little more respectful ill have to think about it more. thanks for all the comments
jessica
jesse! what do you mean you get read? If that really is you in the pix then you must hang around with Vulcans or similar trekkie-trash with microsocope vision. You look great. Hard to imagine you getting read frequently. But like you say the G&Ls in the bars will treat you OK as you are no threat to their hunting.
i get read because im still new to transitioning i present well but as i and many others have come to learn its not just looks that keeps you from being read its manerisms voice and im sure a myrid host of other things i havent even learned yet. so in a club with glbt people who have a better understanding of trans then the average person it dosnt surprise me that i get read alot there. as i get more comfortable in myself it will probably decrease and im just reading whats on their faces as i said most of them call me by my gender presentation ive only had a couple here that were rude enough to say sir.
it still stings though when it happens
jessica
Just because they don't say it, or point it out, does not mean they don't know or don't suspect. They might be very supportive of ->-bleeped-<-, they might just be being politically correct, they might not care enough to question it, they might be big city people who know better then to confront someone they consider off the deep end. You can know peoples' behavior, but rarely, if ever, their intentions.
And yeah, people in a LGBT club are more exposed to it. I know a lot of LGBT bars where they would know right off, because the non-trans women who come in there don't look that good, or pretty - ever. I've been told by quite a few people that the hardest place to pass is San Francisco where 'spot the ->-bleeped-<-' is almost as much a sport as 'guess why the other people on the bus aren't allowed to drive cars.' Again, its a matter of familiarity.
I mean I don't speak or read Japanese, Chinese, (Mandarin or Cantonese), Koren or Vietnamese - but by being around that most of my life, I can look at a sign and tell what it is, even in its English translation. To someone who was raised in say Kansas and never seen any of that I'm pretty sure it all looks the same. I'm even more sure that they would have an even harder problem guessing who is who, but again, familiarity brings you to the point of noticing those very fine details and differences, so you can tell if someone is Japanese or Chinese. Someone like Barbie who was born and raised in Korea can probably tell from two blocks away.
Consider that despite all the 'do I pass' photos and questions about haircuts and all - most people can correctly guess gender from the back, a half a city block away just by the basic dimensions of the body.