Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi again, and sorry if this is an icky or gross topic, but it's the main thing on my mind right now.

I'm one of the weirdos who still masturbates, even though I would like very much to be a woman, complete with any and all surgeries that I could get (if I could afford them). So on the one hand I do feel like an actual transsexual, because I want to transition completely, rather than a ->-bleeped-<-, the difference (as far as I can tell) being that the ->-bleeped-<- is ok staying a man, and doesn't want to lose the penis. Me, I'm fine losing the tackle, in fact I'd be very happy with that... most of the time.

The thing is, I do get a sexual thrill out of dressing. And when I masturbate, the "trans" feelings go away completely immediately after climax, for a couple of minutes or more it's like something's been lifted from my mind and I just don't feel it any more. I feel silly for wanting to be a girl, I'm a man after all, and at this point I often end up taking the clothes off again. The trans feelings inevitably gradually come back though, usually within a couple of minutes.

This is most disturbing to me, because it makes me doubt whether I am "really" a transsexual, or if I have just somehow gotten some sex/gender wires crossed in my brain. Am I just a sexual fetishist? What about the fact that I want to transition, do surgery etc, the whole deal? Does a fetishist actually want those things?

What's the difference between really wanting something, and just having very vivid sexual fantasies about doing it?

I mean I would actually do it (transition completely) if I could, but the fact that the urge goes away so completely immediately after climax makes me wonder if it's all just actually some sex-driven thing.

I have started therapy, and she has suggested that I might try de-coupling the masturbation from the dressing to see how it feels. So far, two days, I've masturbated both times, but kept the clothes on afterwards, and felt very ok with it after that brief "post orgasm chasm". In fact I felt rather sad taking the clothes off later on when I had to go out. So I'm a little confused as to what's going on here.

Has anybody else any insights? I'm looking for a bit more than validation as in "don't worry, you're a girl" etc, I'm actually trying to work out what this means.

Thanks!

Meow

Are you on HRT? If you aren't, you may discover it is very different when the correct hormones are in your blood.

Maggie

Hi Maggie, no I have no started hormone therapy yet. How do you think that might change things?

Thanks!

Meow

The post sex hormone change that occurs after HRT is really different. I once had almost a feeling of depression after orgasm but on HRT, these feelings went away. Some therapists use HRT as a diagnostic tool. Some people who think they may be trans can't tolerate life on estrogen. For me it was wonderful!

Maggie

HRT will lessen and change the sex drive - specifically anti-androgens.  Your story is not uncommon though, but we already talked about that in your previous thread.  I believe it is possible to have intense gender dysphoria while also having a prevailing fetish concerning the clothes etc.  I won't say they are linked or that one causes the other because they don't always appear together.  I have known and read others who have been happy transitioning who also felt the way you did.  After HRT and surgery they tend to lose the sexualized side effect and end up just being in a comfortable position.   Anne Lawrence is a great example of one of these individuals. 

On the other hand I've read of others who have really regreted it once done.  They liked the sexual component and realized it was a large factor in why it felt good to be a girl, and transition was no more than acting out a fantasy, a fantasy that actually unintendedly killed their fantasy.

Were I you, I'd figure out how deep these feelings go.  See if you CAN "be yourself" without resorting to sexual behavior or sexual thoughts (I'm fairly certain that before masturbation you begin to think of yourself in sexual positions as a female, but I could be wrong).  Try to instead think of neutral things, like... going to the store, etc, or just do everyday things as "you".  If after an extended bout with no sexual component, you look at yourself in the mirror and say, "WTH??! That isn't me.. what am I doing!??  I'm wearing a dress!!"  Then you might have your answer.

Remember though, not everything we "want" or "feel" is good for us or even right for us (one doesn't have to have children to see they often intensely want something TOTALLY not good for them).  It takes a lot of work to determine the "right" path and it isn't always the one that immediately feels the best.

If you continue to be honest with yourself, you will be fine, regardless of how you choose to deal with it.  Keep working with your therapist and delving into your motivations and you will find a way to be at peace I believe.

Masturbation promotes release of the brain's opioid-like neurotransmitters (endorphins), which cause feelings of physical and mental wellbeing.

It's only natural to feel good, mentally, for a little bit, after letting one off.
As such, it's perfectly natural if GID fades or even goes away completely for a little bit when you masturbate, especially if you orgasm.

This also means that wanting to masturbate is natural as the feelings of wellbeing are really attractive if you experience depression, stress, dysphoria, and other related sensations, pretty much 24/7 outside of masturbation.

When I was younger, I had a very strong sex drive, and I was easlily aroused by many things. This was very confusing for me because it was hard for me to separate my GID from the arousal. I wondered whether my GID might just be another erotic aspect of my out of control sex drive, and that, once my sex drive was under control, I would no longer feel like a woman.

Now that I am getting older and my sex drive has declined, I can see that my GID is independent from my sex drive. I am taking an anti-androgen and have a reduced sex drive due to that also.

I guess my point is that I understand how an overactive sex drive can confuse the situation so that it is hard to know what role the GID plays. Now that I have a much reduced sex drive, I have no doubt about being TS. Sex is not really much of a part of it. Knowing this helps, since I can focus more on what to do about rather than whether it exists or not.

You are asking good questions. Your answers may be different from mine, but you are smart to be as analytical as possible about it.

Good luck,

Steph

Thanks, these are some very interesting observations, please keep 'em coming!

To me, this has always been the most intriguing side of my GID. I do find a sense of peace (and wonderment) settling in once I get past the masturbation and just "be" around the house wearing the women's clothing. And as I said before, there is a feeling of sadness and regret when the time comes to take it all off and go back to wearing my regular guy clothes. I think I really do enjoy and feel comfortable in women's clothes.

When I was talking about all this with the therapist, I was trying to pin down exactly what it was that makes one a "woman". To me, it seems like there are just so many trivial little qualities that some people seem to latch onto, e.g. painting nails or wearing certain clothes or having hair in a certain style, putting on makeup, or behaving with certain mannerisms (some seem to think women should be more "prim" and "proper" or should or shouldn't do certain things etc). But when I look at each of those, I can think of many women who don't exhibit this behavior, or wear that clothing, and so on and so forth. Often it seems that these things are somewhat of a throwback to attitudes toward women from back in the 1950's or something. I'm not talking about anybody here, but rather looking at some of the fantasy literature out there, it just seems a bit much, sometimes, and actually seems to exhibit rather demeaning attitudes toward women in general.

So for me, one of the biggest aspects of my desire is to actually go as far as possible with respect to making my body female, so that means FFS, SRS, and whatever else I can do. It's almost that the clothing, makeup and the rest of it are just props, what really matters to me is how I am underneath it all. This is probably why I feel dressing to be so unfulfilling nowadays. It was very titillating at first, but now it just feels like a bit of a dead end in its own right. So my own personal intuition is telling me what some have suggested above, that the sexual arousal from wearing the clothes is not fundamental to my condition, but is rather just an expression of the idea of seeing myself as female (which clothing helps). It's not the be-all and end-all of my GID, if that makes any sense.

The chemical changes that take place in your brain immediately after orgasm seem very interesting to me. That must be a fascinating area of study.

I've been thinking about how I would be after transition. I believe that if I were able to do sufficient FFS and SRS, then I would probably aim for something not too radically different from "me now", but just a more feminine version thereof. Hopefully with restored hair (perhaps transplants, but whatever works), I might be able to present convincingly in a kind of feminine and/or androgynous manner, somewhere between, but not looking hideous if I want to dress in a feminine way. I think I would probably be quite open about my past, rather than trying to hide it away and lie to people. In my experience so far, people generally have been very open and accepting of the concept of me being transgender or even transsexual. It's easy to think ourselves into a funk with this, imagining that everybody will point and laugh cruelly before kicking us out onto the street. And while it's true that there are probably some places that would do that, most of the time, people are actually pretty ok and decent, even interested. I think a lot has to do with your own attitude and demeanor. If you come across as relaxed, rational, and calm, then people respond to that. It's funny what people will accept if someone just acts like they know what they are doing, and that they belong there. If you start acting all cagey and start stuttering and your eyes dart around, then that makes people nervous, and it's a self fulfilling thing.

I made an appointment today at a local Wig shop (The Beauty Stop here in Eureka) to get fitted up for a wig. I just walked in and calmly explained that I wanted to find a woman's wig, for myself. The lady, Kathy, was so friendly and helpful, and even though she had an upcoming appointment, she took me around back to do some preliminary measuring. I will go back in about a week, when she will hopefully have more options (not a lot right now in my size). The more I find I am just open and direct with people, explaining that I am transgendered and being friendly and calm, the more I realize that a lot of how we are perceived derives from our own attitude.

Sorry, now I'm rambling on... thanks again for the tips.

Meow

You are worried that having sexual stirs because of this means that you are really a guy that is only confused.  I don't think just because you get sexually stirred over clothes that this disqualifies you from being a transsexual.  If you have desires to be a girl while you are sexually aroused, than that would be a different story.  The body is going to do what it is going to do when it comes to sex.  Even though people can be Transsexual, they still need release from sexual tension.  Do you ever have thoughts of being a girl in a nonsexual setting?  Do you find yourself at work or at school, or wherever looking at other women and fantasizing about being similar to them?  Do you see a group of women and get depressed that you are not like that?  These types of things are not set in stone either, but things like this indicate what your dysphoria is like and how it acts. 

I tend to be drawm towards women that have similar attributes to me.  I never really noticed this until just a little while ago.  I think it is because I feel I will never be able to portray a feminine image and these girls help give me hope that maybe one day I can actually do this.  Maybe the clothes themeselves actually represent a personality trait about you.  This sounds weird I know. What I mean iis similar to how red means blood, or black is a symbol for death.  Do you associate a certain meaning to the clothes you dress in?  Do you ever feel like you need more than just clothes to be happy?  It seems to me that you do. 

I got stuck in this whirl myself.  Some how my TG issues were triggered by pantyhose,  I first I thought it was wierd that I wanted to dress up in it and all.  I used to have strong fantasies about this and then I started fantasizing about dressing up in other things.  I finally did dress up in a skirt and blouse in 2002 and I put on a few dresses.  This satisfied me for awhile but eventually clothes were not enough.  I was too scared to push forward but a year later I started trying to work on my voice.  then I got too scared again and thought since there was not a big difference between the genders anyway, I should not want to do this to myself.  For a while I could put these feelings out of my head but then they would return.  When I played games I would always put my initials in as the female ones I gave myself.  I also had fantasies of dressing up like a female school teacher.  I thought this discounted me as a TS and that I was actually a male because of this fantasy and thought this type of outfit might be making me horny without me realizing it.  Anyway, I realized that this was not the case.  Since I feared this as being a male fantasy and hated that this could be just that, I learned that this was yet another indicator of how strong my dysphoria really was.  Then I realized I thought of this school teacher stuff because this is where I engage most of the outside world as well as other women and I am studying philosophy so it was only natural that I would fantasize about school teachers. 

Another reason this is hard is because of the "primary TS" stories that are out there saying " I felt this way since I was 2 seconds old."  I am not saying these stories are wrong but it does create a problem for those that don't feel anything TG until later like you and I did.  I did not feel any inkling of being TG until 15 or 16.  I believe that some TSism can develop over time.  The fear also arise because we fear that therapists won't let go through with it because they will say we are men and then stop us in our tracks.  Then yout think, if I am diagnosed as a man, what do I do about these feelings then and how can I do anything about them when no one believes me? 

Sorry for taking forever           

Hi Lauren, thanks very much for your thoughtful insights. I can relate, I think. My trigger was also pantyhose for a long time, and I too progressed on to more complete outfits. For me, though, I know these feelings where there way before puberty. I think I didn't quite know what to make of them as a child, but they were there for sure. I don't think that makes me any more or less of anything than anyone else, but it does give me some inkling that perhaps it's not simply a sex driven thing, since it was around a long time before those sex hormones started screwing everything up.

I can relate to your comments about looking at other women and fantasising about being similar to them. In fact, now when I see any attractive woman I find myself mentally taking notes on what it is she has done to make herself so attractive - those little things, the shoes, the dress, whatever. Usually, though, it's just a beautiful woman - they could wear a trash bag very often and still look fantastic. Kinda depressing - I mean, I'm steadily losing weight now (been doing lots of exercise, motivated by wanting to get rid of that extra fat around my middle - nothing like women's clothing to make that so much more noticeable!), but I don't think I'll ever get to that classic hourglass figure. Not without a lot more work!

I'm curious as to where you are now in your expression of your gender dysphoria. Are you keeping it "under control" as a male, or are you transitioning?

Thanks again!

Meow

Keeping it "under control."  School helps me keep busy.  I am just getting over the whole 'does this really exist inside me thing." 

Lauren, have you seen any gender therapists? I don't really like the term "therapist" because it makes it sound like there's something wrong with us, but I don't think that's necessarily true at all. I see all of this as being simply an indication that we don't fit into the rigid gender stereotypes that are imposed by society. The thing about a knowledgeable psychologist, particularly one who specializes in transgender, is that they can help you come to a better understanding of what it is you are feeling. It doesn't have to lead to transition, it can simply help to talk about it with someone, especially if that someone is a professional who can help you figure this out. Sorry if all that's blindingly obvious, it's just a thought.

Meow

Hi Meow!

My estimation is that what your experiencing is as others have stated, it's not that uncommon. I used to feel tremendous guilt after arousal. I just wanted the feelings to not return and leave me alone; they always came back. The same as what you described. Eventually, when I could not even pleasure myself from wearing female clothes, I had no way to get rid of the continuous thoughts of having a need to present in a feminine fashion. This is when I began to really research why I felt this way and discovered myself at the same time. So yes, you may be transexual. That's something you'll figure out as time goes on, whether you are or you aren't.

Glad to hear that you went to see Kathy! I've purchased many, many wigs from her. She's a very good person and very trans friendly. Her assistant, Sara, is as well. Which reminds me, I have one there now to pick up! :)


Dawn

   

Hi Dawn! Yes, Kathy seems great. It's really nice just being so matter-of-fact about this stuff with someone, and having them just accept it without feeling a need to explain everything from scratch (Imagined scenario: "What? You want a woman's wig? For yourself? You mean, like, for a party or fancy dress? You think you're what? Transsexual?? WHAT? GET OUT OF MY SHOP YOU FREAK BEFORE I CALL THE POLICE!!! HELP!!!, cue sirens, spotlights etc - the fear I think we all have in the back of our minds when we try this sort of thing  :laugh:)

Meow

I can relate to your experience. I had the same exact thing happen to me when I was younger, and it really confused me. In the same way you described, I would dress up and after the climax the feeling that I was a girl completely went away, as in 100%. Then, after about 5-10 minutes or so, it would be back as usual. I fought with myself so much about this, since like you say, it goes away so completely.

I even started to do it just so I could feel normal. I would dress up and climax just so I could get that brief few minutes of relief that maybe I can be normal and not need to transition. However, it always came back.

HRT has changed it though. Now, after I climax I only have stronger feelings that I am a girl. I believe there must be something with regard to the large amount of hormones being triggered during masturbation and climax. I haven't had those feelings at all since I started HRT like 5 years ago, and now that I've been full time for a couple years now, everything has settled into normalcy. I wouldn't go back for anything.

I wouldn't take it as a sign that you're not transsexual, especially since the feelings come back so soon after. I understand exactly the feelings you're talking about and know first-hand that it has no correlation to your true gender, just a moment of hormonal imbalance that causes a shift in your mind for some reason.

~Sarah

Hey guys sorry I am late, Hi Meow I've missed talking to you for a while ;D. This forum is fantastic and such a knowledge base that we perhaps might not need any outside therapy after all :angel:. Seriously though, I am seeing a theme emerging from all this discussions, and it is an image assimilation. Clothing, nails, heels, hair etc.
If we would strip all those to the bare skin, and give no significant attention to body shape or sexual characteristic I wonder weather we would feel the need for reaffirmation of one gender or the other, we would simply be our selves. I often wondered about reaffirmation, the process of approving one self as a specific brand or gender, where in fact gender lines are not even lines but rather overlapping interconnected psycho-fog. Proven by science, intertwined in every being is male and female ingredient. For most, dosage of one overwhelms the other perhaps for us is more of a equilibrium and we tend to have more of a confusion as to whom we ought to be rather than clear picture of who we are.

another one with similar experience.  The suggestion to de-couple masturbation from dressing was something that helped me to understand that it wasn't just a sex thing. 

Of course, to complicate things, I was into fetish clothing a while back, so separating clothing from the sexual activity was pretty much impossible.  One of the other responders said it though: sometimes when you wear things or picture yourself in certain situations or positions, it can be something of a turn on.  I don't think that means you're not trans, it just means that you have something that excites you. 

All that to say this: if you need more 'regular' clothes, you might try that out.  Get things that aren't exciting or stimulating.  I think Interalia was saying something similar-- if you're wearing very mundane clothes and you aren't just interested in getting into something sexy then that might be an informative experience. 

It's already been mentioned, but since orgasms usually make you feel better mentally and physically, and since having GID is a stressful thing, it's probably normal that the GID feeling would seem to go away after an orgasm along with other stressful things. Too bad it's only for such a short time though..

I am thinking about seeing a therapist, but I am afraid of what I described in my above post about earlier.  The funny thing is, I don't feel as if I am "acting" like a male.  But it still bothers me that I am not girl for some reason even though my actions and manners are that of a man.  This why a good bit of the time I believe that somehow I made myself have gender dysphoria in a way or I am psychosomatic and think I have dysphoria but actually do not.  I don't know why I would do this to myself though.  Then other times I just get all sad when looking at another girl.  I don't know why I am an idiot.  I could never pass in a million years, and no one would ever believe me as a woman.  I know all of this but somehow my brain continues.  I also feel guilty for wasting other people's time.  I hate my feelings because they are fake but they feel real.   

Hi Sarah, that is very reassuring! Thanks. And I love your pic, btw.

Alexia, hi again! Yes, I'm still here. I drop in and out of view like a little ghost.

Jessica, thanks as well - I've been experimenting these last couple of days with just being around the house while dressed - luckily I work from home (software developer, my own website) so I can do that. It's nice! I have to say, the thing I'm noticing is that I feel really sad when I have to take this stuff off. It's not that I feel myself changing into a different persona or anything so radical, but just that I actually really think I enjoy wearing women's clothing, it makes me feel good about myself, more who I'd like to be. Currently getting used to wearing high heels (I know, I know, most women don't wear high heels all the time, but I am just working through my clothing stereotypes here). I love your pic too, by the way - you look beautiful.

Lauren, I would go find a good trans-friendly therapist, really. I hate how that sounds, it seems like I'm saying "you need help", but that's not it at all. Have you ever talked to anybody about this stuff? I know I hadn't, prior to my first session back in 1999. But it was huge, such a big load off my shoulders simply to express all this stuff to someone who actually understood what I was going through. Trust me, just go do it, you'll feel so much better. It's not even about getting any particular outcome, it's just not very healthy (imho) to keep this stuff bottled up all the time. Online interaction helps, but it's anonymous and it's different talking to someone who's sitting right there in front of you.

I used to do Improv back in NYC at a great little workshop run by Tom Soter. He always tried to drum into us when we went up on stage, to not go up there with some big plot in mind - just keep your mind open, and react to the other people, don't block, don't say No, say "Yes, and..." - in other words, agree with what the other person comes up with, and add something else to it. It taught me not to try to second guess what's going to happen in life, but just to pay attention and try to take things as they come, and go with the flow a bit. That's how I'm trying to approach this transgender thing now. It scares me a little to think about HRT and getting breasts etc before I'm ready to start living as a woman (I think I need quite a lot of FFS before I could pass convincingly), but part of me is saying "Just go with it, don't try to second guess the future, it'll all work out somehow..."

My new sig pretty much says it all. Great song, by the way!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fzJ_AYajA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1fzJ_AYajA#)

Thanks again, everyone!

Meow

Lauren,

Dear, you're far to hard on yourself. Slow down a little, take a deep breath and let yourself feel good about you. I doubt you can "make" yourself have gender dysphoria. You may have it and are simply not sure how to handle it or cope with it. You're thinking about seeing a therapist? Please do so. They will help you to cope with this issue. Unless you have some other underlying mental issue, you're as real as any of the rest of us, I've no doubt.

Dawn 

Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 23, 2009, 04:58:49 PM
Jessica, thanks as well - I've been experimenting these last couple of days with just being around the house while dressed - luckily I work from home (software developer, my own website) so I can do that. It's nice! I have to say, the thing I'm noticing is that I feel really sad when I have to take this stuff off. It's not that I feel myself changing into a different persona or anything so radical, but just that I actually really think I enjoy wearing women's clothing, it makes me feel good about myself, more who I'd like to be. Currently getting used to wearing high heels (I know, I know, most women don't wear high heels all the time, but I am just working through my clothing stereotypes here). I love your pic too, by the way - you look beautiful.

You're very welcome, and thanks for the compliment.  By all means, get through all the stereotypes and whatever.  Everyone has to, except most cis girls do it as teenagers-- how many girls did you know in high school that spent an hour on their hair every morning, or doing their makeup or whatever?  We have to try those things that help us express ourselves, and eventually we'll sift through them, some will stick and some won't (blue eye shadow is one of my won'ts. lol) 

The thing with heels: you have to have a couple pairs for going out, at least in the evenings, and you have to be able to walk in them, they have to be broken in, etc etc.  Wearing them around the house is a great idea.  Also, some shoe stores sell things like gel pads to put in the shoe that helps cushion your foot.  It helps when you're on your feet and all your weight is up on your toes.  Of course they're a stereotype and you aren't going to wear them everywhere but you do need to be able to pull it off when you have to.   :)

Sorry, I just get into mini depressive moods.  I haven't doubted myself like that in a while.  After the nap I just had, I feel better.  You probably just are very eager to express some sort of femininity and so you want to express that through attire.  You are testing your grounds.  It is ok to do this.  Since you were denied this and other things, it is only natural to want to let it all out.  I just feel all guilty because I feel the degree of my dysphoria is smaller than most other trans people and therefore, it feels unreal compared to theirs.

I am just tired of being stuck in the back and forth stage.  I wish I could just make the choice and that is that but everytime I think I have finally figured things out, the doubts come back.  I guess I am better about than I used to be though. 

I think the reason I have doubts is because I don't really do anything about my issue and I think that because I don't don't do anything then that must mean I am not serious enough and that I am ok with being a man.  If I am ok with being a man, then what is my deal?  I know my issues are real because if they weren't then I wouldn't be here or think about it at all

I also have Cerebral Palsy.  So in a sense I am used to be disadvantaged in some way.  So I probably just force myself to accept my manhood, just like hwo I have to accept I have a disability.  I guess I am used to sticking things out.  Early on in my life I was taught that i would have extra challenges and whatnot. 
I used to feel a lot worse.  I felt that I could not do this to my family.  Since they already had to deal with a disabled person, they shouldn't have to deal with this "girl" stuff either.  Sometimes I feel like a failure for being born both handicapped and TS.  I used to have it in my head that since I am disabled, that it was impossible for me to be TG too. 

Sometimes I fantasize about getting caught and being forced to go to therapy so I can finally get passed all this since I am too cowardly to do it myself. 

Anyway good luck.  You seem to be making the right moves.  Hugs     

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Post Merge: December 23, 2009, 10:48:06 PM

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I don't know if this is GID related but sometimes I think my dysphoria unconsciously pushes me to be better at other things.  I got a 3.5 GPA this semester at Mount Saint Mary's University, but did not feel that was good enough and ever since my TG feelings began in 2001, As the years go by, it becomes harder and harder for to be happy about and for myself.  This could be a total unrealted issue though and I could just have perfectionism issues.

Hi Lauren,

What is the main fear that's stopping you from going to see a gender therapist? I'm no expert, but most things we worry about never happen anyway (to paraphrase Tom Petty). Remember that just going to therapy doesn't presuppose any particular outcome. It can be simply a release to help you deal with these feelings - it doesn't automatically have to lead to transition, and you don't have to "prove" anything to anybody. My therapist came right out and told me at the start that it's not her job to suddenly declare me a transsexual or otherwise - that's really up to me to decide. These people really are very careful not to lead you anywhere you don't want to go... it's not coercive at all. There's really just positives, except for the hourly fee of course.

Good luck!

Meow

I find this discussion extremely interesting, so just adding my thoughts on the GID feelings moving to the background following sexual release, which I have always had. I think it does create confusion and conflict. Assuming you are physically male with male hormones, your sexual release response may well follow the male pattern - you know, when it's over, it's over. The girls taking female hormones are thus changing their response because of the hormonal change - I say they are improving their response.

No doubt sex in the correct body must be better. There are different responses from different people. Some of us hate sex and want nothing to do with the sex organs we're stuck with, others want sexual release, if not contact, and accept using our (hopefully temporary) organs.

SusanKG

Hihi,

I didn't really read everything, just kinda skimmed over this page to get a feel for what was being discussed...and thought I'd throw my two coins in. ;)

So I think I have had some similar experiences, but also some unique ones too. I'm kind of gender-neutral, yet feel HRT may be necessary for me. I have sides of both genders to me and such. I have hardly ever masturbated in my entire life (can count with all my fingers the number of times I have done it...), I just did not enjoy it. I got nothing from it, my parents were even worried about me. It was almost irritating. But it does not stop the strong sexual urges I'm getting these days. I have gone through periods of time of which where I feel ok as male, and other times it's a living nightmare, and I'd want to be female in a split second. A long time I wondered if it was sexual cause if I have cross-gender feelings, if suddenly I'm overwhelmed with sexual urge it will just take those feelings before and amplify them by 100x. Lately I have opened myself emotionally and towards my own body's sexual feelings in order to try and be more comfortable with myself. I thought after education for a while that being male was alright. But now it's come back that I think I need to acknowledge both sides. But things such that were talked about before were like envy of girls in public and such, I have had similar experiences, it's like one I am attracted to girls, but also envious of them too. And no matter what I do, as silly as I feel wearing female clothing....I can never ever shun it away, the female clothing sections of stores are like a super magnet to me that I can't not think "omg that is awesome, I have to come back here to try that on one day soon...."

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing with sexual stuff, as it is part of your physical body's natural reactions to things. Plus in my own quest I feel it may be needed to have possibly for instance, a temporary 2-3 weeks on HRT to get a feel for how I feel with E in my system and such. But I know this was off topic lol, but it's just a general jumble to throw in that may contribute in some way to this discussion :).

Interesting question, MeowmeansMeow. Personally I have never masturbated dressed, But the doubts and confusions you and Lauren mention seem familiar. I masturbate to a lot of things, including imagining being fully female and having sex with men and women. But dressing is different to me - that's for comfort more than excitement. The doubts drive me a little crazy - I am used to deciding things logically and none of this feeling female in a male body is logical. But I cannot ignore the woman-me, not anymore.

For the record, Lauren, I am a therapist and I go to a therapist. I highly recommend it. You may need to interview and find someone that feels right to you, but it can be very helpful. (Warning, it can also be uncomfortable, especially if your therapist asks questions you want to run from. Usually those are the ones you need to look at, but sometimes I prefer denial. We therapists are human too).

I also tried to use logic to as a way to figure out why I feel this way, all that comes out in the end is that I just feel this way and that is that.  I tried writing down where my TG feelings started and to where they developed to now, but that still does not explain anything.  It does not tell me why I was ok with being and actually like being a man from my birth until the age of 16 and then the dramatic shift.  I have made up theory after theory of how I am this way and there is always a hole in each one.  I tried using logic to explain how I wasn't TS because I didn't feel anything until I was 16 or later and then I tried using it to explain how I was a TS but that failed also.  I then came up with a list of proofs of how I am a TS and a list of cons of how I was not a TS.  There is equal weight on both sides. 

I made a thread about it, but I forgot what it is called though.  In the end, logic plays no role in this at all.  If your trying to use logic to figure this out, just look at my posts and ask yourself if you want to travel down the same road as me.   

whoever first described GID/TSism and said that if you enjoy crossdressing to masturbation you were not a genuine TS was perhaps so old that their body no longer worked but I think that any healthy youngish person - less than 70 - and not in a regular sexual relationship/not regularly releasing the buildup of seminal fluids that accummulate in the seminal vesicles and trigger the need to have 'some sort of sex to empty it' will feel sexy when dressing.   I don't really follow the line that masturbation means you are just A PERV
And I do think that the feeling of depression that causes the immediate need to throw off the femela eclothes is as much due to the inability to wear them continuously as to the conncetion they have to masturbation.
To read the crap put out by the BLZB gang gives the impression that if we crossdress all day as a natural part of our transition we will be walking round with monster erections even when we have been on estrogen so long that we no longer get erections..

Quote from: lauren3332 on December 24, 2009, 02:10:31 AM
I have made up theory after theory of how I am this way and there is always a hole in each one.  I tried using logic to explain how I wasn't TS because I didn't feel anything until I was 16 or later and then I tried using it to explain how I was a TS but that failed also.  I then came up with a list of proofs of how I am a TS and a list of cons of how I was not a TS.  There is equal weight on both sides. 

In the end, logic plays no role in this at all. 

So true Lauren. I've definitely been there.

I never had a sex drive, but I did and still do masturbate.  However I do it in the prone position.  I did try three times to do it the normal way, and it freaked the hell out of me.  It was not enjoyable.

When I first started crossdressing, I tried a few times masturbating while wearing, but learned one thing.  It just made my clothes gross. 

Now days, I maybe masturbate about one to three times a week.

For those who have success in this, I wonder what techniques work well to "de-couple masturbation" from trans-thinking. (I no longer get aroused by simply getting or staying dressed.)

I'm currently trying simple abstinence as much as possible, but as you can probably guess, it only works for so long...

Lora

I used to be the same way I would get off to the idea of being a girl and when I was done I'd feel stupid so when I started buying my girl clothes I thought it would be a sexual thing but it quickly faded it was more of a rush to wear them but after a little while of being dressed it stopped and now there's no sexual feelings it just feels right like any other clothing

Quote from: MeowMeansMeow on December 23, 2009, 12:13:12 PM
Hi again, and sorry if this is an icky or gross topic, but it's the main thing on my mind right now.

I'm one of the weirdos who still masturbates, even though I would like very much to be a woman, complete with any and all surgeries that I could get (if I could afford them). So on the one hand I do feel like an actual transsexual, because I want to transition completely, rather than a ->-bleeped-<-, the difference (as far as I can tell) being that the ->-bleeped-<- is ok staying a man, and doesn't want to lose the penis. Me, I'm fine losing the tackle, in fact I'd be very happy with that... most of the time.

The thing is, I do get a sexual thrill out of dressing. And when I masturbate, the "trans" feelings go away completely immediately after climax, for a couple of minutes or more it's like something's been lifted from my mind and I just don't feel it any more. I feel silly for wanting to be a girl, I'm a man after all, and at this point I often end up taking the clothes off again. The trans feelings inevitably gradually come back though, usually within a couple of minutes.

This is most disturbing to me, because it makes me doubt whether I am "really" a transsexual, or if I have just somehow gotten some sex/gender wires crossed in my brain. Am I just a sexual fetishist? What about the fact that I want to transition, do surgery etc, the whole deal? Does a fetishist actually want those things?

What's the difference between really wanting something, and just having very vivid sexual fantasies about doing it?

I mean I would actually do it (transition completely) if I could, but the fact that the urge goes away so completely immediately after climax makes me wonder if it's all just actually some sex-driven thing.

I have started therapy, and she has suggested that I might try de-coupling the masturbation from the dressing to see how it feels. So far, two days, I've masturbated both times, but kept the clothes on afterwards, and felt very ok with it after that brief "post orgasm chasm". In fact I felt rather sad taking the clothes off later on when I had to go out. So I'm a little confused as to what's going on here.

Has anybody else any insights? I'm looking for a bit more than validation as in "don't worry, you're a girl" etc, I'm actually trying to work out what this means.

Thanks!

Meow

I only read this and the 1st 2-3 posts after. I don't know if this is of any help but, is it ONLY after you've masturbated that the feeling goes away? Are there ANY other times where it goes away? (No need to actually answer this, I just want you to think on it real good) If so, then you might be both a man and a woman. (2 spirit and so on) For me, I hate it but I'm a gender bender. (Basically I switch genders and can even be in between) So "part" of me is male, while the other part of me is female but the two do merge together at times so I feel neither. The end result for me in terms of what gender I am is that of a girl and I absolutely HATE feeling like a guy at all. So I know I'm a girl. For you, I don't know, this is something you're going to need to really think back on previous events are and if it turns out you were feeling like a guy at times, but a girl at other times, well, it's up to you to determine which gender you truly are. Good luck!

Quote from: lauren3332 on December 23, 2009, 02:44:19 PM
You are worried that having sexual stirs because of this means that you are really a guy that is only confused.  I don't think just because you get sexually stirred over clothes that this disqualifies you from being a transsexual.  If you have desires to be a girl while you are sexually aroused, than that would be a different story.  The body is going to do what it is going to do when it comes to sex.  Even though people can be Transsexual, they still need release from sexual tension.  Do you ever have thoughts of being a girl in a nonsexual setting?  Do you find yourself at work or at school, or wherever looking at other women and fantasizing about being similar to them?  Do you see a group of women and get depressed that you are not like that?  These types of things are not set in stone either, but things like this indicate what your dysphoria is like and how it acts. 

I tend to be drawm towards women that have similar attributes to me.  I never really noticed this until just a little while ago.  I think it is because I feel I will never be able to portray a feminine image and these girls help give me hope that maybe one day I can actually do this.  Maybe the clothes themeselves actually represent a personality trait about you.  This sounds weird I know. What I mean iis similar to how red means blood, or black is a symbol for death.  Do you associate a certain meaning to the clothes you dress in?  Do you ever feel like you need more than just clothes to be happy?  It seems to me that you do. 

I got stuck in this whirl myself.  Some how my TG issues were triggered by pantyhose,  I first I thought it was wierd that I wanted to dress up in it and all.  I used to have strong fantasies about this and then I started fantasizing about dressing up in other things.  I finally did dress up in a skirt and blouse in 2002 and I put on a few dresses.  This satisfied me for awhile but eventually clothes were not enough.  I was too scared to push forward but a year later I started trying to work on my voice.  then I got too scared again and thought since there was not a big difference between the genders anyway, I should not want to do this to myself.  For a while I could put these feelings out of my head but then they would return.  When I played games I would always put my initials in as the female ones I gave myself.  I also had fantasies of dressing up like a female school teacher.  I thought this discounted me as a TS and that I was actually a male because of this fantasy and thought this type of outfit might be making me horny without me realizing it.  Anyway, I realized that this was not the case.  Since I feared this as being a male fantasy and hated that this could be just that, I learned that this was yet another indicator of how strong my dysphoria really was.  Then I realized I thought of this school teacher stuff because this is where I engage most of the outside world as well as other women and I am studying philosophy so it was only natural that I would fantasize about school teachers. 

Another reason this is hard is because of the "primary TS" stories that are out there saying " I felt this way since I was 2 seconds old."  I am not saying these stories are wrong but it does create a problem for those that don't feel anything TG until later like you and I did.  I did not feel any inkling of being TG until 15 or 16.  I believe that some TSism can develop over time.  The fear also arise because we fear that therapists won't let go through with it because they will say we are men and then stop us in our tracks.  Then yout think, if I am diagnosed as a man, what do I do about these feelings then and how can I do anything about them when no one believes me? 

Sorry for taking forever         

I'm really not sure of what the rules are or anything, since I just signed up, and I know this thread/topic has been dead for a long time, but I can't help but say that this comment I'm quoting here represents everything I feel. It's almost as if it was written for me in the first place. Not just part of it, all of it I could say. So thanks Lauren.

I'm glad I'm not completely alone. I was starting to think I would go insane because I kinda been anticipating my feelings to a couple members of my family, not being specific and avoiding being conclusive about it (cause I myself am not sure of what's going on with me) and they didn't exactly respond well. Not only that, but I feel so confused right now, when I was younger this was easier to deal with, the feeling that maybe I was never meant to be this. I thought it was a sexual urge of the moment, but now it comes back every time, every day, it's almost unbearable sometimes, it's not only sexual anymore. This has happened to me eversince I was a kid, not too young though, about 10, crosdressing while my parents where not home. At first it was all about how I looked in them. Then I just wanted to do normal things in the house while being dressed. It felt really good. And I thought it was just a fetish too, until just a few months now. It's all coming back, but now I don't just feel sexual thrill alone, I want more, and I'm afraid, because I don't know if that's what's right, if that is really what I feel. I'm afraid that I might be just a man with weird and intense obsessions. That would make me really sad. I don't want all this for nothing.

I find that if I was given the chance to be born again, I'd choose to be a girl, without hesitating. But that's not how it works, life's a lot more complicated. I'd choose same family, same personality, almost same everything. Sometimes I don't find myself uncomfortable with being a man, that adds to the confusion, but then I find situations in which I don't want to look myself in the mirror. Or I get that feeling that if I was a girl in a certain situation I'm going through, it'd be much more fun. And then there's that time when I simply get obsessed and can't think about anything else, I feel very uncomfortable, it almost turns into anger, this strange thought of "this is so unfair" invades my mind. Maybe I didn't play with barbies as a kid, but my wish of being a girl was quite alive while in elementary, I can tell you. And it is now too, probably stronger than ever. I like girl clothes, I might not be the typical girl you see walking down a street, my personality is kinda special, I'm sort of a freak even now, looking like a guy. I love k-pop, play a lot of videogames, and my humor is very childish. I like cute things, and I'm a very sensitive person, eventhough I don't look like it. I used to have a group of friends(guys) who I used to hang out with. Throughout our friendships, I have had many problems with them because I was different. Cause I felt different things, cause I wanted to do different things, and they always wanted to do the same boring things. There were a lot of things I never told them, even if they were good people, because they would never understand this.

I'm 22 now, and if I was given a choice, like magic, I know what I'd choose, like I said.

I found a friend who understands me now, I met him through the internet, and supports me, thankfully. I hope it's enough to hold this till my appointment with the therapist comes, which is in about 2 or 3 weeks.

There, I had to say this somewhere. I really wanted to meet people that feel like me, kind and good people. I hope I've finally found the place.

I think it's fairly normal for a lot of life's fears, worries and concerns to vanish right after orgasm, only to quickly reappear a short while later.  Dysphoria can absolutely be a part of that.

Having a really bad cold can have a similar effect in that it can almost be an out of body kind of state and you might not feel anything at all in regards to gender, either way.

Pre-HRT, I felt a lot like the original poster. The feelings always came back a short while later (usually while getting dressed again). There were times life pushed me to purge and pretend it wasn't there, but it always came back. 

If I could only dress for a short while, it frequently included masturbation (perhaps to "heighten" the experience?).  If I could dress for a day, it didn't, or at least, not til the end, and I never wanted those days to end. 

Just over 2 weeks into HRT though, a lot of this has shifted. Any thrill related specifically to clothing has largely subsided. My thoughts center more on what's flowing through my veins and the changes to come. I'm happier, more centered, able to diet, knowing that self improvement is actually moving me towards the person I want to be.

I think the word of caution would be, people probably shouldn't go on HRT to "test" whether or not they've got a crossdressing fetish or dysphoria. There's a lot of good advice in this thread though about how to distinguish between fetish thoughts and dysphoria, and I'd wager that's where a good therapist would begin and attempt to help distinguish.

Welcome to Susan's Place SNgurl. I have been listening to peoples stories for many years and the Transgender theme is something I can spot with just a few words like a song you have heard many times. You have found the right place to go forward in your life and you will discover many of us are much like you. We are more than willing to help you because in turn you will help the next person down the line. Should you need something, ask and most likely somebody will be able to answer your questions.

As for dead threads, sometimes they are a bit of an issue because the past moderators might have left some clean up issues but the software has a feature to auto lock dead threads and it isn't active so if a dead thread speaks to you, it may speak to others as well.


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Meow, I could have written your post several years ago.  While I knew I wanted to be physically female pretty much from age 5, I still experienced the same thing. 

The concern was in the back of my mind often.  It was one reason I made sure that my therapist had no doubt of me being trans when she officially diagnosed me.  But I found myself losing the sexual component as I thought more and more about pursuing transition, especially as I started going out in public finally as "me".  I'm sure that starting HRT also played a role somewhere.  Once I started thinking of going out in public, I realized that the "dressy" things I had liked before would not be appropriate to wear to the post office, grocery store, mall, etc.  Out were cocktail dresses, high  heels and hose.  In were jeans, casual tops, casual skirts, flats and sneakers.  At one time, I would have thought "no way", but it's just called life and reality for females doing day-to-day stuff. 

So, to answer your question, I think it may happen more frequently than therapists would have us believe.  I am so very, very glad I proceeded forward and have ZERO doubts about transition or that I am female.  Nowadays, dressing female isn't a turn on, but it makes me feel more confident, more accomplished and more natural.

I wish you all the best in your journey, hon.
Jen

The original post fits me to a tee.  I'm glad it was picked up again.  My dysphoria started pre-puberty.  Then it was just a strange curiosity.  Things started to change as soon as puberty kicked in.  The attraction to and obsession with feminine clothes was pre-eminent.  Just walking through the lingerie dept. in a store would trigger arousal. Once I learned the word, I thought it was a fetish, but then came the envy of the female body. This was in the mid 60's there was little info out there for me.  I was a fervent masturbator especially when dressed in lingerie and yes, the dysphoria faded quickly after climax. But it always returned.

I have often wondered what kind of reaction a cis male would have if subjected to HRT.  I know they have used this therapy on sexual predators, but what about a cis male who had no history of sexual or gender confusion.

What I do know is that once this trans woman started HRT, everything changed for the better: spiritually, emotionally, mentally and sexually.  The estrogen was something that my body needed.  It's just a shame that I had to wait until I was in my 60's to receive it.

Hugz,
Joi

Since I don't know you, I can't say if you're transsexual or not. You know yourself best too anyway. But I can tell you a bit about my experience and a bit about how I has/had it. Before the puberty hit me very hard, I could mastrubate. I was in the puberty then, but not came so long. I could enjoy mastrubation and I had sexual pleasure then. I forgot all the worries and all my problems. So forgetting you're trans, stress etc. is very normal while mastrubate. Especially when the dysphoria hasn't hit you too hard. But several months later, I lost my sexual pleasure and I didn't want anything anymore. The reason is because the dysphoria hit me much harder, I came longer in the wrong puberty etc. (I would not go into the worst details) I hasn't so hard bottom dysphoria. It's sex characteristics dysphoria that haunt me very hard.