I'm sure others have felt like this, but when you meet someone new do you have the fear of your history in the back of your mind. The fear of being exposed, hurt, and so on?
Here's my example from my new years eve. (Happy 2010, everyone, btw)
I went out with a group of friends to a bar, which got pretty busy, and with having a couple of drinks I become crazy social. Anyway, I ended up getting hit on by a lot of guys (common for me). I played pool with a few of them, doubling up with another friend of mine (girl). Of course, they let us win and we got drinks. I believe I got a couple of drinks that night from a couple of guys. It always seems to happen that way. I just make sure that they know, and understand, that there's no guarantee's with me and buying me a drink doesn't mean I owe them anything... usually they still do.
Anyway, I got a lot of attention, and I don't mind the attention. But, with all of the attention I always have the thought on my mind about what if they found out about my past. There's a sense of danger to it all.
I don't feel as scared because I've had SRS -- I've been in some pretty compromising positions pre-op... also, I learned a lot of lessons. For example, don't assume that the guy knows your trans... yep, pre-op I one brought a guy home and he didn't know (not fun to explain in bed... "btw, I have a boy part"). Another time I went home with a guy, but saved myself because I started puking and ruined the mood very quickly, before I was completely undressed. Those are scary situations, and not ones I recommend. Neither knew at all. Learn from me, avoid that. Do not try at home.
Pre-op, I've been more careful and much wiser. Although, yes, I have been naked in front of a guy and a couple of girls that didn't know right away.
I have gotten a little better at not being as impulsive and not doing anything with someone right away. Usually, anyway. If I'm dating someone, I usually tell them (it's always scary doing that, because of the fear of rejection). I do so because if it gets serious and if they meet enough of my friends someone is going to mention it. I have a mix of friends that know and those that don't know... sometimes I don't know who knows anymore, 'cause some people end up telling others, and so on. *sigh* Although, I've had people who've known me for a year just finding it out from someone... that one puts you in the spot, usually.
So, even being post-op I still am careful and there's still the fear in my mind about "discovery." Granted, some of that fear is subdued being post-op, but it's still there.
I don't really know what I do to get all of the attention I do. It kinda confuses me, actually. Yes, I'm social, but I'm also shy at the same time. I'm just weird like that. People just come to me. A lot of my friends like to compare me to the L-Word's Shane Character. LOL I'm pretty laid back, usually, I end up messing up lots, and for some reason people find me fascinating. It's not something I really work at, or anything, or that I try to get attention. I just do. I asked my friends why, and they just say I have that energy that attracts people... charisma, I guess. LOL
As cool as one might thing it is (and as many people have told me they wish they had it), it's not as great as it sounds. Yes, you get attention, and yes, it can be fun. But, you also end up having a fear from that. A fear of discovery. In a way, you feel pretty vulnerable. And, no, not all attention is good... it's gotten me into trouble more than once, which I also usually run into as well. LOL
I can't talk from the point of a post op person because, sadly, I'm not one.
But if I can suggest a few things that come to mind.
If its a date, like some guy you've met, then it's really none of his business. We all have loads of things in our lives that we don't tell everyone. If you both have a good time and he goes away happy then great. If he goes away feeling unhappy for any reason, then that's his problem.
If a relationship is getting more serious and you are not sure of his reaction if you decided to tell him then don't. Why would he need to know anyway?
If you think you might start to fall for him in a big time way, then guage him out. You should, by that time, know a bit about him and his attitudes. Ask him what he things about transexuals.
OK, if he breaks up with you after that, it's gonna hurt. But pain in the search for love is part of the process really. It's the reason we don't let very young girls get serious with older men.
I am pre-op and I think that fear holds me back. I have had one, count it one, date. I never told him, but I think he might have guess, despite the hug and kiss afterward.
I think that after GRS that the fear would dissipate some, because no more boy parts. But there is always the fact that someone somewhere might out you , because they know you 'before'.
Janet
I think I know what you mean, Natalie. I am pre-op, so I don't know about being post-op. I also don't do the bar scene.
I thought I was pretty safe, being an *ahem* older woman and half the town knowing I used to present male, but when a man in town who evidently didn't know of my past began looking at me all googly-eyed and made my insides all mush, it scared me. I wore a wedding ring for about a month after that just because I wasn't ready to deal with the complications of a guy being interested in me.
I came out of the closet because I was tired of the secrecy, but this is a little different. It is wonderful to be seen as a woman. Perhaps it is just more of the process of settling into who you really are.
- Kate
I am pre-op and before being post-op i don't want to date, but even if i don't date i still wonder if people know if i am tg or not? if i can and i feel safe i tend to be honest about it.
That is why it is too hard being transgender. if someone needed a liver transplant, or one day had a broken nose, he does not go and say: well there is something you need to know about me, 2 years ago my nose was broken.
Of course being tg is such a big big taboo so it is different
It looks like your on your way gothique11 and doing a lot better than I am. Although SRS would help, I personally think I would still be picked up on something else in that kind of intimate position.
There's always a little nagging in the back of my head, but I don't go places to pick people up. I'm not particularly interested in pursuing... things of that nature, so there's no fear involved with people :P
Fear is something most people like us live with all our life. I was always affraid as a small feminine male and even though I am very passable I am always worried someone will find out that I have the wrong parts and hurt me. When SRS is complete I will feel more secure but will never be totally relaxed. I should have confronted my GID many years ago but I was scared; how sad.
Pam
I've never really known this fear. I think because I have always been Bisexual myself and I tend to gravitate socially and sexually towards other bisexual people it has never really occurred to me to worry.
I think other bisexuals do tend to have a less rigid and polarised approach to life and that's probably why I tend to find them more attractive than other orientations.
Bottom line for someone Trans is, if you are going with a bisexual man or a bisexual woman they are likely to be happy with what you have irrespective of whether you are pre or post SRS. So no issue and problem solved. :)
Quote from: rejennyrated on January 03, 2010, 12:09:53 PM
Bottom line for someone Trans is, if you are going with a bisexual man or a bisexual woman they are likely to be happy with what you have irrespective of whether you are pre or post SRS. So no issue and problem solved. :)
Not at all....it's not a problem solved as most of us are talking about the real world and not about moving in bisexual circles or selected venue's. What this thread is actually about is fear in the back of your mind during an intimate session with a man.
When I was pre, back in the 1960's, I would NEVER let anyone get 'friendly' enough to find out! I LOVED the attention but no way was I going to let it go very far. Of course the times were different and a teenage girl could say no without being seen as a prude. If the guy was straight and didn't know, NO WAY were you going to let things go very far!
After SRS (1974) I was pretty wild - a different guy every night (maybe two nights, if he was really good) - I didn't tell anybody and nobody asked. (Well one guy did comment I was "a little different" down there .... I wonder if he ever found his car keys? I threw them in a snowbank as I stormed out LOL!) It was none of their business.
I settled down in a year or so and having some kind of relationship became more important. My first husband didn't know - he found out after we separated and he was really angry that I didn't trust him enough to tell him. I told my second husband before we were married, the first night we spent together - I meant t tell him sooner, honest! - and that worked out okay. When I next dated, in my 50's, I found out this was a "BIG DEAL" to guys - seemed to threaten their manhood and quite frankly it ended most relationships that started to get serious. I have tried being really up front - that doesn't work - just seems to kill any potential - and I have tried telling just before intimacy -and that usually kiboshes the intimacy.
I am 60 now and I still haven't figured out how to get a guy past "ancient history" without him flipping out and yet, if you are going to have a relationship with someone, I feel honesty should be part of it.
If I ever find the answer, I will let you know......
The uncomfortable truth here is that either way is not easy. The fear will always be there UNLESS one loses the fear, and the only way one can lose the fear is by not caring and being open and out from the beginning.
By not telling our past we are subtlely if not openly telling ourselves that there is something wrong with us. OR if not that we do not want to tell our history because we are fearful of the rejection.
Some TSs have told me that they do not need to tell their past because they are true women now, thru and thru, and that the old is buried and all things are new.
I never discount another's experience, so I will not say this is not possible, I just have not observed it happening with anyone I have known.
In my opinion, the best way to insure peace and joy is to tell all proudly and without shame. In fact, the story could be told as a great honor and glory at the accomplishment, and at the personal realization and honesty that it exhibited.
Just the way I do it.
Quote from: Northern Jane on January 03, 2010, 07:46:11 PMI am 60 now and I still haven't figured out how to get a guy past "ancient history" without him flipping out...
I experimented with a popular (straight, normal) online dating forum a ways back, posting a very honest bio (minus the TS part) and pics. I can't date due to my circumstances but I really wanted to know what would happen if I could.
I emailed the guys I WOULD have loved to date if I could, got to know them a bit to be sure we clicked a bit, then... told them. Now I'm very blunt. I don't make a big deal of it. No education. Just the facts. A couple sentences, making sure they knew I was anatomically correct.
Nearly everyone one of them said they were shocked, but didn't really care, as long as I looked like my pics (some suddenly thought they might be fake) and had female parts. After 15-20 positive responses, I got the idea and stopped toying with them. I realize it was kinda unethical, but I really needed to know if a BF was hopeless or not.
And no, I'm not totally naive, lol. I know sex is foremost on their minds, but these were decent, generally successful guys looking for relationships as much as sex. Well, at least as much as most guys are anyway, lol.
Funny thing was the few guys who stopped writing me when I told them ALL eventually came back weeks/months later, said they'd thought about it and don't care. Yea I know, aka "couldn't get anyone else," lol. STILL though...
Now I wish I'd never done it. It's far more heartbreaking to know I COULD, but can't... than just thinking it's hopeless anyway.
Pre-op here, but still... I believe in full-disclosure, because as much as it sucks, we live in a time where not everyone is cool with trans-folk, and it's my belief that to garner respect, you have to be respectful, and the simple truth is that there will be people who aren't comfortable being sexual with trans-folk, regardless of how nice your genitals are. :)
Also, it cuts out a world of BS before it can ever happen. I mean... why in the world would you want to be intimate with someone who doesn't accept you for who you are regardless of who you have been?
It's a great litmus test on _so_ many levels to just be open and honest the moment things become sexual, because I guarantee you nearly 100% of the time if someone has a problem with your trans-past, they're going to be trouble in other ways regardless if they never found out.
I mean, the fear you speak of ultimately is about how they would react to knowing who you are at your most intimate level... not just sexually, which is something we all go through, regardless of being trans, or whatever.
I think it says something about one's own situation too, if they don't feel like they can be honest about their past to the person they are being intimate with.
Then of course there is the practical safety factor of you never who might *snap* because they find out later about your past.
Once again, if you're open up front, you just slice through soooooo much BS.
Also, I think you'd find that more people are going to be okay about it than not... and once again (not too put to fine a point on it), the ones that aren't okay with it most likely aren't worth wasting energy on.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on January 03, 2010, 05:08:17 PM
Not at all....it's not a problem solved as most of us are talking about the real world and not about moving in bisexual circles or selected venue's. What this thread is actually about is fear in the back of your mind during an intimate session with a man.
I beg to differ NB - The idea that Bisexuals are in some way an oddity could actually be quite insulting if someone chose to take it the wrong way (which I'm sure you didn't really mean so no offense taken. :))
Bisexuals are normal people too. (Just like Transpeople are normal people.)
Forget the myths. Most Bisexuals don't do three in a bed or anything kinky. We are just people who happen to have the ability to fall for either men or women. We exist widely in society, far more widely than most realise, because most of us don't reveal our bisexuality unless we are fairly confident we are with another bisexual for fear of precisely this sort of comment. (Which inevitably we get from both Gay and Het people! ::))
As it happens I've never in my life gone to ANY special venues. These were people that I met in the real world in perfectly ordinary places. I'm simply quite selective about who I choose to get intimate with. If you like perhaps I have good BI-DAR. ;)
My point was merely that if, by the time intimacy occurs, you already know that the man or woman in question is Bi, then the fear is gone and you can relax and enjoy the ride. Which I would have thought did constitute a solution, or at least it does for me.
Quote from: rejennyrated on January 04, 2010, 02:19:59 AM
I beg to differ NB - The idea that Bisexuals are in some way an oddity could actually be quite insulting if someone chose to take it the wrong way (which I'm sure you didn't really mean so no offense taken. :))
Bisexuals are normal people too. (Just like Transpeople are normal people.)
My point was merely that if, by the time intimacy occurs, you already know that the man or woman in question is Bi, then the fear is gone and you can relax and enjoy the ride. Which I would have thought did constitute a solution, or at least it does for me.
I didn't mention bisexuals being abnormal anywhere in my previous post. But gay and bisexual venue's are more accepting than someone in a straight bar which was my point. The majority of posts in this thread refer to the boy and girl relationship which most of us are going through. I too have what you would call a long term bisexual relationship but I can still see the problems that a person can face if they are starting a new relationship with a straight guy.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on January 04, 2010, 08:12:44 AM
I didn't mention bisexuals being abnormal anywhere in my previous post. But gay and bisexual venue's are more accepting than someone in a straight bar which was my point. The majority of posts in this thread refer to the boy and girl relationship which most of us are going through. I too have what you would call a long term bisexual relationship but I can still see the problems that a person can face if they are starting a new relationship with a straight guy.
Ok fair enough - but I suppose my point is that if you can tune into the right body language and "tells" you don't have to be in a bisexual or gay venue - I've never been to one in my life. I'm just very good at picking up the bi people in straight joints!
So ok although I take your point about the thread to an extent I suppose I'm just trying to point out that there are ways around the problem of fear without compromising a heterosexual identity if that is what someone feels.
A hetero transwoman with a bi man or a hetero transman with a bi woman is still a straight relationship - but one with no hassles for the trans partner. Just because one partner has bi "tendancies" it doesn't mean that person is going to sleep around or do anything which destroys the perception of a norml boy/girl relationship.
I'm not trying to pretend that the fear doesn't exist. Just trying to suggest a way around it - a work round if you like. (typical ex BBC engineer! always looking for a fix. :D)
Gothique,
I ended up making out topless for 2 hours with a guy who didn't know about me. I didn't intend for that to happen, he just pulled the guy tactic of offering a massage in order to feel you up and I'm kinda weak for that one. I was honest with him that I've only slept with one guy and had no boyfriends, so I was not comfortable with him touching below the belt and we kept a pillow between us when I straddled him and we went with things. I did not want to out myself at that party, because a few other people there didn't know and I was *LIKING* being at a social gathering where me being trans wasn't common knowledge.
I told him a few days later, to which he was disappointed that he couldn't eat me out, but started thinking of what he could do with my cock instead. *sigh*It was nice just being a girl for a while. The party I went to specifically to out myself to him annoyed me... less than 5 minutes of walking in the door, hugging on friends and saying hello, someone started talking about me filling out and my hormone regime to the whole room... of which half a dozen or so people I'd never met before. I wanted to stab that guy.
It has been over a year since I was involved in any way with someone who didn't know about my trans status... they all knew me before transition or early on in transition and were involved as I started growing breasts, changing pronouns, and going female in our social circle. I forgot how horrible it is to be with someone who doesn't know, but now it's worse in that it isn't "Yeah, I seem odd because I want to be a girl", it's "I have hair older than my breasts."
Being post-op, I can see myself getting away without someone knowing. In fact, I've been naked in front of one guy who didn't know... I ended up telling him 'cause other people (mutual friends) know my past, and I didn't want him to find out that way.
It's a tight spot trying to explain that.
Of course, he asked, "So, uh, you wanna be a guy?" LOL
I don't advertise it, and despite asking friends who know, they still feel they have the right to tell others... the worst is when they start talking about it in a group of people that I don't know. It pisses me off. Or, if they introduce me to someone else that they know, but I don't know, but that person has already been told about my past. It's annoying. Worse, is when someone I don't know starts asking about my trans-status, when I haven't told them. I start freaking out in the back of my mind that they have some how "figured me out." I get very self conscious. Only to find out that the friend at the end of the table told that person about me before I stepped into the room!
Grrrrr!
Oh, the hauntings of the past.
Quote from: gothique11 on January 05, 2010, 11:28:52 PMthey still feel they have the right to tell others... the worst is when they start talking about it in a group of people that I don't know. It pisses me off. Or, if they introduce me to someone else that they know, but I don't know, but that person has already been told about my past. It's annoying.
Grrrrr!
I get that ALOT. I feel like on the one hand they feel they have to give a disclaimer just encase things got awkward. On the other hand It just makes me think about how people can be petty sometimes, and love telling dirty little secrets. Grrr is right!