http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7EF4AnkOSg# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7EF4AnkOSg#)
Sometimes we just don't do ourselves any favors.
I've heard of shooting yourself in the foot, but really!!
I hate to say it, but only in America (I hope).
Nothing like a religous war to make sure there are no winners, just losers.
Israel,
Northern Ireland,
Indonesia,
MPO
Cindy
Nothing like a religous war to make sure there are no winners, just losers.
The arms companies seem to do a bang up business.
The arms companies seem to do a bang up business.
That's a point, this may be a classic value added product. Sell scopes with readings from the Koran, the little red book, the Torah, and any other motivational saying and you have a better market. The list is virtually limitless. "Stand up and sight better, You cannot die"
The National Guard could have "They're only looters" and other sayings that I will not go into.
Yuk
Cindy
Sorry - I know this is a little OT but when did my old friend Martin Bashir start working as news anchor for ABC? I must have missed that. When I knew him he was a young BBC journo working on Panorama!
Disturbing report though. I'm sure it will be used by extremists to justify their warped ideas of some sort of religious Jihad!
Actually, there has been considerable effort made to evangelize our armed forces. There was a scandal at the Air Force Academy about this effort. Apparently, it has been going on for years. Also, the head of the paramilitary group Blackwater is a devout Christian and it was his people that drove through the streets of Baghdad shooting people at random for fun. There are probably more of his troops in combat than our own military. So perhaps, it is a religious war and we are just catching on.
Maggie
For the record I reject the use of all the 'newspeak' terms for the people who work for Blackwater, and also reject calling them 'troops' because they are not a standard military force under the control of a nation. (who BTW recently changed their name to something even vaguer Xe). There is a classic, old school name for their employees, who are soldiers for pay, it's mercenary.
It is just now coming to your attention about a religious war in the Middle Eastern area?
10 Day War - Religious.
9/11 - Religious. Sorry but it was.
Afghanistan - Religious
Iraq - Religious
Iran - Religious
Most all wars are religious. These items need not be part of the American arsenal. If they are on them, grind them off. And a business that is based on a religious principle need not by granted a military contract.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 21, 2010, 11:47:37 AM
It is just now coming to your attention about a religious war in the Middle Eastern area?
10 Day War - Religious.
9/11 - Religious. Sorry but it was.
Afghanistan - Religious
Iraq - Religious
Iran - Religious
Most all wars are religious. These items need not be part of the American arsenal. If they are on them, grind them off. And a business that is based on a religious principle need not by granted a military contract.
I believe that the notion represented here is that it is religious on OUR view too not just from our enemy's view. The idea that we have begun a crusade style campaign against Islam is what is being considered. I think in a de facto sense, it is.
BTW, I recently learned that my estranged son is now a recon vehicle commander in either Iraq or Afghanistan. I haven't been in contact with him since he was 14. My ex made sure of that. So while I am very much against war, I do have a personal stake in bringing the troops home.
Maggie
Quote from: Maggie Kay on January 21, 2010, 11:56:39 AM
I believe that the notion represented here is that it is religious on OUR view too not just from our enemy's view. The idea that we have begun a crusade style campaign against Islam is what is being considered. I think in a de facto sense, it is.
BTW, I recently learned that my estranged son is now a recon vehicle commander in either Iraq or Afghanistan. I haven't been in contact with him since he was 14. My ex made sure of that. So while I am very much against war, I do have a personal stake in bringing the troops home.
Maggie
Amem Sister. Amen And soon.
There's always someone doing something stupid :P
Quote from: Janet Lynn on January 21, 2010, 11:47:37 AM
Most all wars are religious. These items need not be part of the American arsenal. If they are on them, grind them off.
I agree that the Biblical reference should be removed and no further scopes accepted for delivery which has such "code" on them. Such an endorsement of Christianity is unconstitutional. It is also, as you and others pointed out, an unnecessary incitement of a religious conflict.... which is something the US military has been taking pains to avoid during the past seven years.
But I have to disagree with you that most wars are about religion. Granted quite a few involve religion, to some degree, but quite a few don't:
Bosnia
Vietnam
Korea
WWII
WWI
Spanish-American War
US Civil War
War of 1812
BTW, Rejennyrated, Martin Bashir's Wikipedia article says that ABC invited him to work for them after his 2003 Michael Jackson interviews.... you remember, the interviews which got him voted #5 of the list of 100 Worst Britons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Worst_Britons). I think he was glad to escape to the US. ;)
Wars are not fought over religion, wars are fought over resources. The people in charge make it about religion to get us motivated. With bible-thumping falling into disfavor, the new religion is blind patriotism but it's the same concept. Seriously people wake up. If you have ever seen the American war machine in action, you would understand that you have to have some hardcore motivation to step out against it with no more than an ak-47 and a hand grenade; it will turn you into hamburger before you can shriek. How could they get those crazy young kids to fight us
so hard when they don't want to die any more anyone else?
Resources are what we have fought over since the dawn of time, and we have just gotten better at justifying it. How is the middle east conflict over religion? That's a lie that the public has bought into since the beginning. Pre-Zionism it was a pretty nice, quiet place. Zionist Israel is basically the bee in the bonnet over there, and we support them as a strong military ally in an area rich with, you guessed it, resources. Just about everything post ww2 and it's accompanyng military-industrial complex has been about money, even Bosnia.
QuoteThere's always someone doing something stupid
Can you believe how incredibly stupid (or brilliant depending on your point of view) that is though, it's like Bin Laden came up with the plan himself.
Bosnia had a very high religious component to it.
And I like the Bible Quote sights, after all, who would Jesus shoot?
WWII, inside Germany, was very much religious in nature. The Nazi, who had alliances with the Vatican, was doing ethnic cleansing against the Jews. Italy was under the hand of Mussolini, which the Vatican did not oppose.
The Civil War was based on states rights, with the underlying belief that it was "Our God-given right to give a better life to black man" Excuse me, but they had a good life in their own country.
I will agree that wars are fought over resources, but there is always that religious undertone of our god said it is ours.
Its late, but its good news:
No More Jesus Rifles
ABC News
By LUIS MARTINEZ, JOSEPH RHEE and MARK SCHONE
January 21, 2010
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jesus-rifles/story?id=9618791 (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jesus-rifles/story?id=9618791)
Trijicon, the gunsight maker that has imprinted Bible verse numbers on its scopes, has announced that it will no longer imprint the verses on the sides of scopes intended for the U.S. military, and will also provide clients with the kits to remove the Bible verse numbers from existing scopes.
YaaaaaaaY!!!
I bet even Jesus is glad
Fear of losing a lucrative military contract can work wonders. But I am glad to see that they are sending out kits to remove the references.
But the damage is done.
How could the USA army allow this to happen?
Propganda motivates more people than anything. The 'terrorists' (and sadly I'm becoming unsure who the terrorists are) can motivate people to be suicide bombers. That level of commitment to a cause is awesome. Sick, yes, but think about it, would you?. Professional soldiers are fighting people who are willing to wear explosives, walk into a place and suicide. Horrible for the innocent people maimed and killed. But they have been motivated to do so. Now we give them 'holy' scripture in weapons to make them more motivated.
Stupid stupid stupid.
And so sad because troops and civilians are being killed because of the dumb bum idiots who make the scopes.
Sorry for the rant.
Cindy
On a completely separate topic. Virginia, my friend, you are looking totally gorgeous. Congratulations Honey :-* :-* :-* :eusa_dance: :icon_bunch: :icon_bunch: :icon_bunch:
The Air Force is much, much worse, with most senior officers being Evangelical Christians. You pretty much need to be one to advance in rank.
Really, Tekla!!!
Hells bells.
A very close friend in the UK (30+ years ago) was stopped from being a front line pilot because his mother was Dutch and he may have split loyalties if needed to nuke Europe. Being a RAF pilot is incredibly competitive and difficult enough, he ended up flying RAF transports as his record/background/etc was so good.
And you guys have people who are religous biased running the USA airforce?
I never realised that the USA was so religon dominated, this site has expanded my knowledge in many ways. Not all of them comforting.
Cindy
Really, despite all the folks who don't like what I say, I can't make it up.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/03/AR2005050301499.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/03/AR2005050301499.html)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/us/07muslim.html?ex=1360040400&en=61d39abfa542ddbd&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/07/us/07muslim.html?ex=1360040400&en=61d39abfa542ddbd&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all)
The commandant of cadets, Brig. Gen. Johnny A. Weida, came in for particular scrutiny by the panel. He sent an academywide e-mail message to announce the National Day of Prayer, instructed cadets that they were "accountable to their God" and invented a call-and-response chant with the cadets that went, "Jesus ... Rocks."
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/24/the-air-force-academy-evangelical-alliance-an-oppressive-use-of-religion/ (http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2005/06/24/the-air-force-academy-evangelical-alliance-an-oppressive-use-of-religion/)
The report said it found that non-Christian cadets are subjected to "proselytization or religious harassment" by more senior cadets; and that cadets of other religions are subject to discrimination, such as being denied passes off-campus to attend religious services.
The report said that in at least two cases "highly qualified individuals were dissuaded from attending the academy ... after learning of the official culture of religious intolerance and hostility toward those who do not subscribe to and practice evangelical Christianity.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/03/airforce.religion/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/03/airforce.religion/index.html)
I have never commented about "I don't like what you say". Just, a number of times, in the antagonistic way you say it. It is, IMO ineffectual, you have a brilliant mind and I would like to see and hear it shared in a positive manner.
However, how can this sort of indocrination get through your constitution? I thought you had freedom of speech and freedom of religous belief enshrined? The more I hear this sort of post (yes I know an OXM) what control does Obama have? Is he (please this is not meant as a racist comment) regarded by these people as some "->-bleeped-<-'who got lucky, and do they respect him as the Commander in Chief? Who controls the USA response? I always thought it was the Pres, but thankfully after reading Nixon's biography he wasn't.But who controls it now?
I have to admit I thought I knew the USA, I don't think I do anymore. Do the USA citizens understand the implications of the comments we have brought up? Or as ever do the sheep want a shepherd? And propaganda rules.
Cindy
Its a corporate state, run by the corporations, and for the corporations. Just had a Supreme Court decision that pretty much cements it. Large corporations - and not even American ones - are going to have complete and near total control over the election process by virtue of buying huge amounts of time to favor certain candidates, and at that, I don't even think they are going to have to buy, just threaten to. And that's just the few they don't outright own at the current time.
We just had a huge health care debate in which the simple and obvious and practical solution (extending the existing MediCare system to everyone) wasn't even on the table, but what finally came out is not going to provide a single person who does not currently have insurance with some, but did - by some amazing turn of events - allows the medical corporations, insurance companies and the rest to make even more money. Odd.
The total cost of that system - that many claimed would break the bank - were far less than the TARP bail-out, and that sucker was debated less then any three persons would debate the toppings on the pizza they were ordering.
Those banks, freshly rid of all their bad paper, just handed out bonuses that total more money that the states are in debt, more money than it would take to stop all home foreclosures for the next three years. But, hey, who cares?
Most Americans want us out of the Mideast, but its not happening.
And antagonism (aside from being my best quality) is much better than cynicism, because it's still worth fighting for. I'll take it as long as it means fighting rather than giving up and giving in. Besides, brilliance costs, and no one is paying me here.
Quote from: CindyJames on January 23, 2010, 02:13:51 AM
I have never commented about "I don't like what you say". Just, a number of times, in the antagonistic way you say it. It is, IMO ineffectual, you have a brilliant mind and I would like to see and hear it shared in a positive manner.
However, how can this sort of indocrination get through your constitution? I thought you had freedom of speech and freedom of religous belief enshrined? The more I hear this sort of post (yes I know an OXM) what control does Obama have? Is he (please this is not meant as a racist comment) regarded by these people as some "->-bleeped-<-'who got lucky, and do they respect him as the Commander in Chief? Who controls the USA response? I always thought it was the Pres, but thankfully after reading Nixon's biography he wasn't.But who controls it now?
I have to admit I thought I knew the USA, I don't think I do anymore. Do the USA citizens understand the implications of the comments we have brought up? Or as ever do the sheep want a shepherd? And propaganda rules.
Cindy
I will not get drawn into a debate with the very many folks here who disagree with me on specific incidents or points but I am compelled to point this out to you my sister-
When you interact with Americans in the transsexual (and LGBT) community you are dealing with people who are mostly on the far left fringe of American politics.
Anytime you deal with the 20% or so on the extremes, you get a warped view of where the mainstream of the country is.
go to the Free Republic forum and the far right fringe will tell you that the liberals are dragging the country straight to hell - go to Democratic Undergound or similar sites and they will insist that right wing fascists are already building interment camps for the gays - or even all liberals.
Both views are not remotely a reflection of reality.
If all you learn about the U.S. you learn from a very liberal group of posters (which is what you have here - a LOT of lefties and a few moderate-to-right posters who learn quick enough to keep their mouth shut) then you will BY DEFINITION get a skewed view of what things are like here.
Proceed with caution and try to diversify the point of view of your source material.