Firstly, I am overwhelmed by your truly wonderful responses to my postings. I will treasure them. Being from an engineering background I always want to solve things in the most direct manner and sometimes say things inapropriately. Please forgive me if I have offended anyone in my quest to resist further change to my persona. May I be allowed to ask one question before dropping this subject.
IF medical science evolved to enable genetic engineering etc, to remove all of your desire to be a woman, would you choose the surgery to turn the desire off right now?
I would but feel there could be moments when I would miss it terribly.
It would be interesting to know your feelings.
I also have an engineering background, I work in building engineering and have done so since the early 90s when I left nursing.
Sometimes, the easiest way to respond to any question is to ask a parallel question.
If medical science came up with a means of removing all your desires to socialise, would you accept it?
Or, a means to remove all your desire to eat varied food, or listen to music?
The point I'm making is these things are part of your life, who you are.
Now, imagine if you had grown up in an environment where you only ever ate the same food, every day. Someone offers you alternate food.
What we are is part of who we are. That applies to everyone.
There have been times in history when any sort of deviance from a set norm was attacked.
Western society has progressed to the point of accepting people and their individual eccentricities. We accept that, not everyone is going to have the same colour skin. We accept that not everyone is going to be attracted to the opposite sex. We accept that not everyone is going to want to marry and have children.
Personally, I can't see any reason why society must impose gender stereotypes upon how we dress.
I am happy to be someone who steps outside the false male-female gender binary, who makes obvious the hollowness of the idea that only two genders exist. Sure, it can get lonely, but do I regret starting hormones, transitioning, refusing to pass? Hell naw. I might feel concerned if my gender expression was somehow self-destructive, but it's very obviously not, and I'm left wondering:
Why do you feel the need to remove your gender-variance? Do you think it will hurt you somehow? If so, how?
Quote from: Colline on February 11, 2010, 04:42:56 PM
IF medical science evolved to enable genetic engineering etc, to remove all of your desire to be a woman, would you choose the surgery to turn the desire off right now?
I would but feel there could be moments when I would miss it terribly.
It would be interesting to know your feelings.
Your question in itself makes some assumptions about the nature of the condition. Is it that we are one gender and desire to be the other, or that we are one gender internally and desire to have our external gender match up with that? I think most of us would consider it to be the latter -- and thus 'removing the desire' would result in us being one gender but living as another gender. But it is this very incongruence that results in the desire to 'match things up' in the first place.
So no, I don't wouldn't want to erase the desire.
By "becoming" a woman I am living as the person I am, deep inside. It is easier to change the clothes to fit the person than the person to fit the clothes. It is easier to change the body than to change the essential nature of the person that is housed in that body.
My soul is that of a woman even though I've had a male body. If medical science came up with a way to make me think my soul was that of a man, would I accept it? In a word: No. There is nothing wrong with me that can't be cured by being allowed to live my life as I am.
- Kate
This is a very interesting question. :)
Many philosophies in the world state that all living beings, especially Humans, have souls that contain their bodies' personalities, memories, thought processes, etc. At the same time, however, even the tiniest of alterations in people's brains can dramatically alter who they are. A single gene can control what sex they prefer to mate with or what profession they would like to choose when they are older, and the wrong hormone balance in the mother's womb could cause the baby to be physically born of one gender, but grow up to mentally believe they are another.
Would this mean that our brains are physical manifestations of our own souls, and that cutting off or changing certain pieces of it would be like cutting off one of our bodies' limbs, or transforming them to things totally different? Or, alternatively, would it mean that our brain is akin to a translation point, where signals between the mind, body, and soul can be corrupted, and the wrong "words" so to speak can be sent and received? If the latter, what kind of a translation problem could be present? Is it the soul believing it's the physical gender, with the brain mistranslating it to the mind as the opposite gender? Or is everything here caused by something completely different? There are so many countless possibilities, that trying to comprehend all of them with our current level of knowledge is like attempting to visualize the true face of the Divine. We can only make guesses, and with each guess try to make sense out of it and prove it is true.
In the end...this is probably something better left to a more transhumanist age, where our physical bodies can be as easily altered as any of our desktop computers. In that kind of a time period, we would probably have a good grasp on what really makes up the Human consciousness. At the moment, though, we only have ourselves and our own little quests to complete, before we can truly know which of these is the right answer.
I was born a girl, all be it in a male body, but a girl none the less. Yes I was raised a boy, taught boy things, pushed into a male life. But all that time I knew I was really a girl. Only a few people would listen to me. My much missed cousin Myra, who always treated me as a girl growing up.
If they could remove the desire to be a woman, would I go for it? A resounding Hell No. Why would I want to change what I am? The only change I want is to correct that mistake of nature that gave me a male body.
We've all thought about that question, but I can't answer until the time (unlikely to ever come) that the option is available. Not having it available makes it impossible to understand the emotional response I would have.
No! Of course not. If I hadn't had a transgender past then I wouldn't be the person that I am today, and I happen to like the person I am. Post SRS I am even proud of the fact that I arrived at my womanhod by what I now describe as the "scenic route". I feel it has given me an unusual set of insights into life beyond the gender binary.
Changing sex is a fantastic life adventure, and approached in the right way, with the right people around one it can even become fun!
What you are asking for is a bit like brainwashing. Well I personally would rather have my own natural thoughts, even if they caused me some discomfort, than someone elses pill "programming". Freewill and self awareness is the most precious gift that humanity has. In wishing someone to take that away from you and reprogram you into someone else, you are wishing for a dangerous and even potentially evil thing.
Just imagine what a dictator could do with such an ability to change people's minds. (and don't imagine that such a mind changing technology would be restricted to only be used for gender variance... next it would be gays, then political activists then.... )
So forgive me, but I fervently hope and pray that such treatments NEVER EVER become even close to reality! That way perdition surely lies.
Colline:
This has been discussed in various forms many times before. Here is one poll:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,28784.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,28784.0.html)
The overwhelming feeling is that the answer would be no. A "normal" pill would be equivalent to death. Because much of what makes us up is our internal sense of gender identity, and losing that would make us into someone we have never been.
If you are attempting to find a way out of the issues of gender identity, I'm afraid that there are no easy answers.
Also your mind, and way of thinking is much like many here. We are obsessed by this because it is a constant reminder of our incongruities. As a result we allocate much "head space" to it looking for a way out. Were it that easy. But that is one of the most major changes to our persona's if we do change. We are no longer obsessed.
And Jenny is right. If you approach it in the right way, it can be one hell of a roller coaster ride! ;D ;D ;D
-Sandy
Not a chance. I don't even know what being a guy would be, and although logically I know it's my brain that's wrong, even if my existence is a mistake, I'm still here regardless.
And not being what I am, would be like being someone completely different, the person I am would be dead.
Seems pretty simple to me, no. This is how I am. I am just beginning the journey and am very thankful for who I am.
Ginger
There is evidence, growing every day, that gender identity resides in the brain.
If they would miraculously perfect a method to change the gender of the hypothalamus part of the brain without risk changing anything else (which will not become available in the foreseeable future, there just isn't a chance)... I would think about it.
I would think long and hard and quite frankly, I might feel compelled to go through with it, just because it would be "easier".
But I honestly hope I wouldn't go through with it.
Because this is who I am.
I am a guy, a man, and I have a female body, and it bothers me, and I need to fix it.
I'm not sure I want to sacrifice my identity, my "self", for the sake of "easy".
It would be too alike to suicide.
And if I'm gonna go kill myself anyway, there are cheaper ways than "brain surgery".
I absolutely would not. Risks aside, my feelings and opinions about everything are shaped by all aspects of my personality. Removing part of that equation would throw everything up in the air, essentially killing who I am to replace myself with some other person. I can't fathom why *anyone* would want to do this.
And as long as we're speaking hypothetically, I think some type of stem-cell treatment to grow the organs we are missing would be far more likely in the near future. I would, of course, take that option instead.
I will answer your question in the sense that I believe you asked it and that is "Absolutely Not". I would never in a million years remove my desire to be a women.
In fact the thought of being a male, even thinking about what I once used to have makes me feel extremely nauseous. I will never ever regret what I have done.
However, I do not "desire to be women" why? Because, I am a woman, in addition if genetic engineering becomes available that allows one to change their chromosomes from XY to XX safely. I would do it within a heartbeat and with no hesitation whatsoever.
If future medical technology were available that would allow me to have the normal reproductive organs of a female. I would again do so within a heartbeat and with no hesitation provided that it was safe to do so.
Does one get the drift that I want to be a normal female?.
Kindest regards
Sarah B
I'm glad to see you stuck around Colline. I am hoping you find more answers to your questions.
As to your specific hypothetical, I would love to be rid of the heartache, depression, and overall stress that results from my gender dysphoria, but I have no issue whatsoever with being feminine. So the answer for me is, yes, because gender dysphoria is so debilitating, I'd love to have all those future hours that might be spent in angst over my dysphoria, to use more productively without having to transition.
Really, I don't know. I don't know what it's like to really be a woman, to really want to be one. Either was indifferent or bothered by it. I don't know, I'd be a different person if I did that. On one hand, I hate how I am. Hate the gender dysphoria, hate the burden I place on others, hate the female body. But on the other hand, I do have my own, slightly-unique personality and I would have to give that up. Maybe it wouldn't even be "me" inhabiting the body any more.
As Miniar said, like suicide.
Looking back at my previous post, I realize I may have given the wrong type of answer to this question. :(
In my view...for me, personally, this is too complex of a question for a mere forum post to truthfully answer. Although, I will say this: My personality believes that I am female, therefore I am really female...just with a major disfigurement (such an understatement there...). Trying to patch the mind like that is the same as curing the symptom, and not the cause.
Hmm I would, It seems I'm alone, it might potentially equal my death yes I can see that as a person but in many ways that's so much easier. I wouldn't know any different and I wouldn't have to worry about hurting others with this horrible condition.
So, you'd take the blue pill?
As I said, I've never met Morpheus, so I can't answer the question. I like this response (http://xkcd.com/566/) to the question.
May I add a twist? Before puberty, it was never an issue. Male friends and relatives were jealous that I had so many girl friends. They really didn't understand the kind of relationship I had. At puberty it became a problem. From the ages of 14 to 24 or so, I would have given anything for it to go away. "Give me 2 of those pills just to make sure it takes!" Finally, around the mid-twenties, I realized what a gift it was. I see the world in a very different way from the vast majority of people because of it. It is still a pain, but finding an accepting lover, a job, having a couple of shekels in the bank, allowed me to integrate it into my character, soul, and public personae. You would have to hold me down and force me to do it now.