I hope I can express this clearly. Asking this makes me feel vulnerable and uncertain. I keep expecting, irrationally, to be yelled at and criticized.
The question comes up for me when I think about feeling female in a male body. Growing up I thought male meant male genitalia and female meant female genitalia. Period. Then I did not think about it.
Until I read of others feeling they were a different gender than their body. At first I thought maybe they were just raised in bad circumstances where they did not like how they were treated as the gender they were assigned. Being raised by an abusive man could make you hate being male. I knew one tortured soul for whom that was the case, I think.
But then I talked to others, including a transwoman who was quite happy. After hearing more personal accounts, I realized there was much more to it than not liking how you are treated as your "assigned gender" - or not liking how your "assigned gender" is supposed to act. Much more, but I am not clear on what it is.
I realized for myself, I do not like how I am treated as the male I appear to be, and I do not like acting as that male. (although I am good at "passing" as that male). But, the male thing is not so bad. I just do not feel like it fits. Its not me. That person in the mirror is not me. But what does that mean?
This is part of what I work on in therapy with a Jungian therapist who believes that we all have both male and female parts. Its like she invites me to be more confused, even as she invites me to explore.
So I am at least "exploring" the woman ("anima") inside. All my life I have lived behind a protective personna, which reflected whatever I needed to do to survive and also what others expected of me. My personna was a law-abiding, hard-working, caring male. Looking back I realize something else was trying to come out. Some men have long hair, but my long hair gives me comfort because to me it is feminine. But no one else read it that way, so I am safe. I like bright colors. Some men like bright colors. So it is safe. My leg and body hair is shaved - it feels comforting and is not seen. and so on. I am wearing a dress as I type. It is comforting. But I am not sure what it means. Or am I just scared of what it means?
All my life I have felt afraid to be myself, felt like it was dangerous to even think about. Now I am trying to come out from behind the protective layers of constructed maleness. I do not know where I am going as I just try to unfold whatever is there.
And I wonder, what is a woman? what does it mean to be a woman?
I know clothes do not make a woman (or a man). Apparently neither does genitalia.
So what does?
This is an interesting question, I've been exploring the same question lately too. I believe I am over thinking it though.... Obviously I feel the way I do for whatever reason, so I am working more on accepting myself rather than finding out exactly why I feel the way I do. I don't think I will find the complete answer anyways, maybe one day I will but there is time for that.
And to answer your question what is a woman? A woman is a human being, same as a man or anything in between. It is our perceptions of things, our feelings, our spirit, and our identities that we are made of. And not one human is the same on all of those levels, from man to woman, woman to woman, or man to man.. those all vary. So you just have to explore your feelings and find out who you are, it is neither right or wrong as long as it is true to you. It is how you perceive yourself and the world and not how others perceive you. That is what I think at least...
I don't think it is possible to come up with a definitive on this, which is why I stopped trying to think about it a very long time ago.
I can't ever know what it means to be anyone other than myself. That is why it is for others, and not me, to decide whether I am a woman or not.
In reality if you ask several people what makes someone a woman you will get several different answers.
What I can say is that prior to SRS and transition I found the masculine elements of my lifestyle and body onerous and uncomfortable. Since both were removed I feel content. So whatever that makes me I am happy being it... and that really is the only thing that matters.
What does it mean to be a women? The answer will always lie within you. If you look inside you will find it will mean making choices. It means you can become whatever you want to be, whatever your imagination can dream up. It means being confident to achieve those dreams, without compromising your integrity.
You yourself answered your own questioned "What it means to be a women" and you say "law-abiding, hard-working, caring male female (I believe you actually meant to say female, but do not know it yet)" then you mention "having long hair, ensuring that you do not have hair on your body, you like bright colors and that you are comfortable in a dress", well this is what women want and all of these traits put together means you are a women.
Again "what does it mean to be a women?". Be yourself, that is what it means to be a women.
Rejennyrated is right, there is no definitive answer to "What does it mean to be a women", just use Google and see how many answers you can gleam from your search.
Kind regards
Sarah B
In my opinion, it means being able to turn your gaze outward and concentrate on all the other things in life apart from what it means. That doesn't just apply to what it means to be a woman; the same applies to the guys here and what it means to be a guy.
When it enables you to be confident about yourself, happy with yourself, and able to go through your day looking at the myriad complexities and beauties of this life and the rest of the world, free from uncertainty and self-doubt. From a personal viewpoint, that's what it means.
Perhaps the more important question here is: what does it mean to be yourself?
When the time comes that your mind no longer asks the question, or even entertains the notion that you don't 'fit', as you put it, then you'll have found what it means. :) And whatever you have to do in order to affect that state of mind... wherever you finally weigh anchor, within the infinitely fluid ocean of perceptual gender (that goes far beyond rigid physical constraints), be that through experimentation, self-reflection, introspection, studying your self image (meditation is good for this)... you inevitably reach a point where your mind 'clicks', and you get an all-pervading feeling of "YES! That's me, that's who I am."
That's what it means to be yourself, and that is the start of your journey. :)
Early in my life, being a young child, I just was. I was who I was and other than being accused of being too shy and quiet, I didn't get any grief. But when I got a little older my mother tried to shame me, by accusing me of talking like a "fairy" and acting like a "queer". Mom tried to shame me into acting male. She made me self-conscious and fearful so I tried to comply.
I stopped being who I was and I started being someone I was not.
I had to go through life being careful to be someone I was not and eventually I forgot who I was. I was never allowed to grow into the person I was so I lost out on something many people take for granted.
Eventually god came into the picture. It seemed that god needed for me to be someone I was not also, Society needed for me to be someone I was not. I learned to hate the person I had been before and I hated anyone who reminded me of who I really was.
I would see young girls having fun and enjoying life and I hated them, I envied them and I hated them. I thought it was so strange that a young man such as myself became angry at women instead of being attracted to them. But they were rubbing it in my face, they had what god had deliberately denied me and they were enjoying life while I was just going from one day to the next.
I was like two eyes looking out at the world. I had no world of my own, no life of my own. I was a nothing. I was merely two eyes, watching others have lives. I knew I could never get married. I knew I could never have a life. My only goal was to eventually kill myself. I wanted to wait till my mother had passed away before killing myself because I didn't want to cause her to suffer.
Eventually I gave up on waiting for my mother to die. I decided I could either kill myself or try transition and if transition didn't work out for me then I could always kill myself later.
I had nothing before transition. I was a woman without a body, I was a woman without a life. I was a woman without any history. I was a woman without any experience. I was a woman without any past, present or future. I had never existed within the material world. I was a ghost that was waiting to die.
For me being a woman was exactly that, being a woman. Having a woman's past, having a woman's present and having a woman's future. Having hope, having a desire to live, that is all part of being a woman for me.
Gender is an artifact of societies interpretation of differences between males and females. These interpretations are usually exaggerated for more than they are worth. All of the personality characteristics that get genderized have nothing to do with "being" a man or woman, as both men and women have all such characteristics. There is no psychological trait (apart from traits directly tied to instinctual differences in reproductive functionality) that is the trait of of a "man" or a "woman." When you ask, "What does it mean to be a woman?", you are asking what it means to cohere with a particular interpretation. This will depend on how subservient you want to be to the interpretation of the society that is responsible for the gender concepts you are regularly exposed to. You may want to comply in great detail to this or that social construction, or you may have the insight to realize that your own inner truth, the unique configuration of characteristics within you, is more important that what your society says about you. When societies create gender concepts, they are not in search of the truth or have any interest in telling the truth. Societies merely use gender concepts to create understandable roles for the "men" and "women" who populate them. Order over truth is the eternal social priority.
I suggest that a more important question is, "What does it mean to be human?" Think of it this way. Patriarchal societies, since ancient times, have stated things like, "It is the virtue of men to rule the state and the virtue of women to rule the home." Yet, can anything be well ruled without temperance and justice? I, and most people, would say no. This means that in order to be a good man or woman, you will have to know something of self discipline and justice. The most important qualities that make our lives worthwhile are always in common to all genders. Are you honest, understanding, compassionate, just, courageous and trustworthy? These most important aspects of "being" cannot be doled out bimorphically to the genders.
What does it mean to be human?
In your attempt to answer this question, if you find your own unique configuration of personal traits coheres with a specific gender identification in a way that brings a deep harmony to you and personally empowers you, then live in harmony! But this is not "being" a man or a women. This is just being yourself in a society that makes too much of their labels.
That is a question I struggled with for many years in my youth in an effort to identify WHAT was wrong.
I could not say (honestly) that I felt like a girl because I didn't know what a girl felt like (or a guy for that matter). I couldn't say I WAS a girl in a male body because I couldn't define "girl" (aside from physical sex).
What I WAS aware of was how foreign everything was, like I was a stranger in a foreign land where I didn't speak the language, didn't know the customs, and couldn't understand the landscape.
Eventually life was such an empty shell, so devoid of anything that felt natural that I HAD to "try the other side".
What amazed me was how easy and natural everything was on the other side - I had "come home". Over thirty years have passed now and I just can't imagine anything else!
And, you know what? I STILL can't define what it mean to be a woman LOL!
For me, it is just the way that I view myself and the world, with female eyes. My ex use to ask me what it meant to be a woman, because I said I was one. And I never could answer her. I doubt I can now.
But as Matilda said "once you have walked the walk, you will know". And I know it now, but I can't explain it to someone else.
Thank you for your responses. I appreciate each one.
I agree with Stella Blue I could easily overthink this and am trying to experience my way to answers.
And Rejennyrated, I get the feeling that although you say others may have to figure out if you are a woman, you do not much care what they think, you are going to be yourself.
You and Sarah B agree there is no one definition. I felt very supported by your obserations, Sarah B.
I appreciate your openess Julie Wilson. I want to hug you. I think I did to myself what you so eloquently describe. I did not, do not feel connected to my body, and focused too much on being what others see as acceptable.
As you say, Prima Sophia, the most important thing is to be human. I get distracted sometimes by my fears and confusions.
I am looking for the the comfort with myself you describe Northern Jane - and if I find it maybe definitions will not matter to me either.
Matilda I am walking differently than I ever have, and am not very steady yet, but I am trying to have patience in just waiting to experience whatever there is.
I have read oher posts of yours, Janet Lynn, and read this in that context. Clearly you experienced something deeper and far beyond a definition, and I appreciate your sharing it. I want to listen to myself the way you learned to.
I want to just be myself, but I am afraid. I have lived so far avoiding violating social norms, and I have always felt that to be myself would violate norms (not clearly defined) and put me at risk. So maybe that is why the question "what is a woman?" has so much emotional loading for me. Sarah B I actually meant I was being male - my surface protective personna - a male - all my life. My personna was not bad and will always be a part of me. But I will be different as well. When I do what I want I do, "female" things, my fears label them as forbidden by the rules of survival, and I get stuck. I am trying to unstick and just be, and discover, myself.
Thank you all for sharing your personal experiences and for your input.
Quote from: Northern Jane on February 20, 2010, 09:48:52 AM
I could not say (honestly) that I felt like a girl because I didn't know what a girl felt like (or a guy for that matter). I couldn't say I WAS a girl in a male body because I couldn't define "girl" (aside from physical sex).
What I WAS aware of was how foreign everything was, like I was a stranger in a foreign land where I didn't speak the language, didn't know the customs, and couldn't understand the landscape.
Eventually life was such an empty shell, so devoid of anything that felt natural that I HAD to "try the other side".
What amazed me was how easy and natural everything was on the other side - I had "come home". Over thirty years have passed now and I just can't imagine anything else!
And, you know what? I STILL can't define what it mean to be a woman LOL!
I'm SO glad you wrote this!! I have always felt deeply uncomfortable with the standard notion of 'a woman in a man's body' because, like you, I could not and still cannot define myself as that. All my social conditioning, physical experience, presentation and treatment by a world that sees a man and treats me as such has given me a life that is clearly not the same as a natal woman's ... BUT ... it has also left me feeling depressed, alienated and profoundly uncomfortable and distressed. So all I know is what I'm not and what every cell in my body wants to be ... whether that can ever make me a 'proper' woman (whatever that is), I don't know. I just want to be a proper, true, honest ME!
Quote from: PrimaSophia on February 20, 2010, 09:02:27 AM
Gender is an artifact of societies interpretation of differences between males and females. These interpretations are usually exaggerated >snip<
But the thread is about being a Woman and not about "gender".
Gender seems to me to be a word that some people use to try to get their heads around being trans or having GID.
Gender is a word we can theorize on, speculate on, it is a word we can debate and a theory we can dissect.
But sometimes "gender" is about having small feminine hands, sometimes it is about having a beautiful, feminine form with all-matching parts. Sometimes "gender" is about having guys be attracted to you because you are a young, beautiful woman. Sometimes "gender" is about having to use contraceptives in order to avoid getting pregnant. Sometimes "gender" is about getting the job, the good husband or boyfriend, or the passing grade because you were such an attractive female.
Sometimes "gender" is about always being able to find those beautiful clothes in your size. Those beautiful shoes in your size.
Sometimes "gender" is about not being "outed", sometimes "gender" is about not having to worry about "passing" "as" "female". Sometimes "gender" is not having to worry that your friends will tell new friends that you used to be a "guy".
Sometimes "gender" is about being able to be a mother.
Sometimes "gender" is about having a childhood, instead of being a shadow walker.
Sometimes "gender" is about not being murdered for your past.
Sometimes "gender" is about being able to just live and enjoy life.
Other than that I think "gender" is just a word we throw around that really doesn't mean much at all. It is a word we use to verbally construct our frustrated musings.
Quote from: Sephirah on February 20, 2010, 05:17:29 AMPerhaps the more important question here is: what does it mean to be yourself?
And that is exactly the thing, isn't it? Matilda's answer is short and sweet and about all we can really say about it. It is a highly personal experience. To me being a woman means just being myself, as natural as breathing. It feels like
me. I have no way of knowing what it means to others but I know the definition just seems to fit. It means being so firmly grounded in who I am that nothing in this world will ever, ever be able to take that away. It just means feeling finally normal.
What does it mean to be a woman? nothing.
Be whoever you are. If you are more comfortable being a woman, be a woman. For me being a woman just feel right, more comfortable and that's it I guess. Why? because this is how I felt from a young age when people tried to make me be a man. Explanation? None, really. Just a feeling, probably biology.
For me... It means being an Iguana :laugh:
But really, I'm not sure how to answer that
I think... Therefor I am... A woman :icon_chick:
I don't know, the only thing I know is I am one. Not the same kind as my mother or my daughter I am unique, just as all the other women on this planet.
Reading your post was like looking in a mirror.
While I never went to a jungian therapist, I did examine the anima portions of myself. Yes there are ying/yang components to all portions of the mind, but it still comes down to what and who "you" are.
Not the pastiche persona that you exhibit to the world. You. The one behind the mask.
That person is the one who is male/female/both/neither, which ever way you feel.
What you are saying is that you are using coping mechanisms (long hair, bright colors) to exhibit "you". "You" are feeling stifled. "You" feel that you must break out.
No, this isn't about clothes or fetishes. This is about being who "you" are. Taking on the outward manifestations of your true gender brings comfort, not erotic arousal. I know the feeling well. For me it was the only time "I" ever felt "normal".
I was an actor on the stage of life for many decades before I decided to quite acting and be "ME".
"I" am female. I always have been. "I" do not know what it is to be a woman. I have missed much of the social interaction that a woman experiences growing up. Never the less, I am female.
You might try to separate your feelings of being a female from what you think a woman is society is.
I will tell you that coping mechanisms eventually fail if you are transsexual. You may take on more feminine accessories, like carrying a man bag (purse) or start wearing female slacks instead of pants, but eventually nothing will help. Only transition.
I would suggest that you seek out a therapist trained in gender issues. They can help you understand your feelings and how to deal with them and give you guidance in the steps you can take.
Many here have had the very same feelings, you are not alone.
It is a scary path, this becoming who you "really" are. For, if you travel down this path, there is no returning. You can never wear the mask again.
But there is so much LIFE to live! There is truly color and joy and love that you cannot see when it is filtered through a mask.
Enjoy the ride!!!
-Sandy
Quote from: Sandy on February 22, 2010, 03:09:19 PMIt is a scary path, this becoming who you "really" are. For, if you travel down this path, there is no returning. You can never wear the mask again.
so very well said. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cosgan.de%2Fimages%2Fsmilie%2Fliebe%2Fa055.gif&hash=09c31e3d3e9f03f2ca1e44008cb973d551e61797)
I've grappled with this question my whole life. The definition has changed so much throughout the years; I'm sure I could write an entire novel full of what it has meant to me during that time.
However, the one thing that has remained constant is my desire to be myself, and I've always felt that my self was a woman. So when you ask what it means to be a woman, for me it means simply... To be 'me'.
~Jas :icon_chick:
I cannot add much but I will say that, while I cannot explain what it means,
Quote from: Myself on February 21, 2010, 12:28:13 AM
Explanation? None, really. Just a feeling, probably biology.
, that seems to sum up my feelings pretty well. It's easier for me to just consider that there is no meaning to it nor definition of what it means to be a woman. It just seems to be the way that it is and fixating on that is the surest way to get myself all confused. I feel things and have experiences that are not, from everything that I can find, male gendered (or male-sexed if you support the gendered-brain hypothesis.) I haven't been male a single day in my life so being a woman is simply who I am. There's nothing more or less to that.
You've already gotten most of the way there by starting to ask the big questions. The rest is mostly about acceptance of who you are inside and out (and making sure you know who that is without thinking about it too hard), just like everyone else has said already. The acceptance and letting go of all that we have been told by those who know very next to nothing on the subject (the great and powerful 'they') is the really really hard part.
If you're looking to know more, yeah, the GID therapist is the first stop. The non GID folk are difficult to talk to because they seem to completely lack the language and grokking (it's the only word that fits at all) of the whole range of TG/TS issues. After that, try some of the basics: Bornstein and Serano are good places to start. Reading them let me at least open up to the idea that I am what I am without meaning but a very real consequence for denying. I find that reading more and more will at least noodle me in the direction that I need to go simply because so many others have written volumes on just this very question.
For the completely opinionated answer: keep walking till you're free of the feeling that this is something that you need to understand completely. The others are good benchmarks for how successful you'll be be belaboring this question. You can keep pounding it over and over but eventually, it is, like many things about who we are as people, just something that typically has to be internalized and moved on from. From everything that I've seen from everyone that I've known, that honestly may be the only successful strategy to address the topic permanently.
If you find yourself thinking about this and have found an answer that you feel comfortable with, I find that you might want to try a strategy that works for OCD. OCD-like tendencies come out all over the place when your sub-conciousness/consciousness starts going haywire and challenging every definition of normative that you've ever seen or heard. This is just your baseline battling your conditioning. Thus, treat the problem like any other compulsion. Start by recognizing the compulsion and then make sure you tell yourself exactly what *YOU* believe. "I know that I am obsessing over this. I know that this isn't helpful. I believe that ..."
I find that little ritual makes those little times where I can't get over myself. Really, that's what I see my wallowing in dysphoria as being as I've already found my answer over an over but that damned consciousness (NOT the sub-concious) keeps peppering me with questions because that's all it knows how to do and, well, it's primary job is to keep you apprised of any danger and think about how to deal with that. TG/TS stuff tends to trigger it over and over (this is completely off the charts scientifically and is just academic conjecture at this point) mostly, I'd imagine because we have to perceive this part of us as something at least a little threatening when starting to work with because of the relative danger it puts in societally.
I will tell you this though. The mask that everyone has mentioned at one point was something that triggered anxiety attacks in me from a very early age (3). Accepting who I am and moving through it stopped the attacks in a single day (at 29). Getting it internalized took a little time and I still think about it from time to time but at this point, I simply see that as my conscious mind fighting hard over something the sub-conciousness knows cold. Practice at getting past it makes it easier. Every time is less and less hard.
I never felt "right" when I was pretending to be a man. I was afraid to try anything else because I had learned how to pass as a man and didn't think I could as a woman. But I became ever more certain I could not continue if I didn't at least admit to my friends that I didn't feel that I was a man. (I was male but not a man.)
When I started coming out I asked my daughter what was a woman. She said there is no way to define it. I told her that I would try pretending to be a woman because I didn't think it would be any worse than pretending to be a man and I might be able to do a better job of it.
As I began to operate on the right fuel (hormones) I felt right for the first time since puberty. As I interacted as a woman with the world around me I felt happy and alive for the first time ever.
Now I don't pretend any more. Despite my anatomy and my history, I am a woman. I don't know what it means to be a woman, but I have found out what it means to be me.
- Kate
I am so glad I asked this question or opened this topic, whatever. And I appreciate the comments that have continued. They have helped me feel less lost and more steady. I am grateful to each of you.
What does it mean to be a woman? It means you've been lumped into - and/or lump yourself into - a social construct used to describe, proscribe, circumscribe, regulate, oppress, stomp all over, play games with, stare at, get excited over and expect things of half the human population.
Thass wot it forkin' means to be a woman.
Not a comforting answer, but a liberating one, I hope.
It means whatever you make it mean, other people's definitions are for other people.
Well, you know, meaning isn't an objective thing, you know what I'm saying?
The way I see it, man/woman is an identity.
Question becomes less, what does it mean to be one, but what does it mean "to you" to identify as one.
Hi Kendall
I apologise for being presumptuous and I meant no harm in what I said. Take care and I hope you find peace and happiness in what you are looking for.
Kind regards
Sarah B
Quote from: K8 on February 22, 2010, 08:30:40 PM
I never felt "right" when I was pretending to be a man. I was afraid to try anything else because I had learned how to pass as a man and didn't think I could as a woman. But I became ever more certain I could not continue if I didn't at least admit to my friends that I didn't feel that I was a man. (I was male but not a man.)
I couldn't agree with you more, Kate. I've been very, very good at pretending to be male. So good that most people are astonished to discover that I'd want to be anything else. But that pretence has become impossible to bear. And when people ask how I think I will be able to pass as a woman, I tell them, if I managed it as a man, when everything about that felt phony, how could it possibly be any harder to follow my instincts as a woman?
Hi Sarah B
I did not in any way feel anything negative in what you said - I felt support and I appreciate it. I asked for what you gave, so I did not feel it was presumptuous.
Hugs
Kendall