If you are FTM and applied for and received a Selective Service exemption letter, when did you apply, and do you remember how long it took for the letter to arrive?
When I mailed my application some seven weeks ago, I read (somewhere on the SSS site, maybe the actual form that I filled out) that it takes four to six weeks. I figured I should allow an extra week or two because of the holiday backlog and an extra week for mailing time, but I've been getting impatient. I thought I might inquire about the status of my letter, so I went back to the site today. I read that these days it's taking 135 days to get a letter. Either this notice is new or I missed it the first time around.
I guess I should have applied for the exemption earlier, but I had so much going on at the time. Now I want to apply for a Census job, but I need that exemption. I'm kicking myself. Grr.
I'm not legally male yet so I can't answer your questions. However, I plan to apply once I legally change my federal (social security) gender marker.
I'm sure you're aware that ftms ("those who are born female and have had a sex change", according to the selective service FAQ) are not required to register. All federal jobs, that I know of, have three questions that go something like this:
a. Are you a [legal] male born after December 31, 1959? yes no If no, skip parts b and c.
b. Have you registered with the Selective Service System? yes no If no, go to c.
c. If 'no', describe your reason(s) in item #n.
If push comes to shove, answer yes, no, and then explain your situation: persons assigned female at birth are not required to register and you've applied for your SIL. It may or may not work for you. When I did my paperwork for the government position I was "applying" for (hospital clinicals), they were all very understanding and helped me fill everything out appropriately despite it being a rural area.
Feel free to ignore me if you know all of this already or if you are completely stealth.
You guessed it, Adio. I don't want to divulge the reason I have an exemption, if indeed the exemption comes through. I'm living as stealth as I can.
The Census app only asks if I'm registered. If I'm not, I have to explain further down in the app. I'm not going to out myself. I'm not comfortable with that.
I have a buddy (trans) who works for the Census Bureau in the same city I do, and he says that they absolutely will not hire me till I produce an exemption letter.
You are correct. They will not hire you without your letter. I mailed my form in and it only took about 4 to 5 weeks to get my letter back. I got it yesterday. I would try to get a hold of someone at SS. I have to fax my letter to the census tomorrow.
Was just checking out the site. Can someone confirm that I read correctly and if you are over 26 you do not have to register?
Myles
No one may register after their 26th birthday. If you are 26+, you can still apply for the SIL though.
If you go to the transequality website, under their resources there is a pdf document about the selective service and how it impacts transgender individuals.
I wouldn't worry about it much... The likely hood of getting drafted is pretty slim in the U.S....
If you want to join up... Go see a recruiter
Yes, I registered when I was 18
I guess I should go read about it some more. There were some exception about veterans having a DD214 so I will check that out. Having already served in the military, but it was under my old name but same SSN.
I will research more.
Thanks Myles
I don't remember the time frame. I do remember I forgot to enclose the pertinent documentation (duh!) so it came back for that.
It sits in my safe with my other transition-related papers.
Jay
I'm not sure of your age but I thought all men were exempt from being drafted after the age of 35. Did that change with the wars starting?
You can't volunteer for service if 35 or older either. I tried registering, it never happened apparently.
Quote from: Radar on February 22, 2010, 01:32:44 PM
I'm not sure of your age but I thought all men were exempt from being drafted after the age of 35. Did that change with the wars starting?
I believe you are.
But if registering for the selective service was required at the time you were of the proper age (if you were male then), now that we are above that certain age, and are male, if someone looks and we did NOT register (like we should have if we were male then) it can be a problem for student loans and other things. Not worded properly but blame that on my lack of sleep!
Jay
So if we're not legally male until after 35 we shouldn't really worry? I'm assuming as long as you don't go for a student loan or apply for a government job?
Quote from: Radar on February 22, 2010, 03:52:53 PM
So if we're not legally male until after 35 we shouldn't really worry? I'm assuming as long as you don't go for a student loan or apply for a government job?
No idea. I still have outstanding student loans so wanted to cover my bases, just in case.
Jay
Quote from: Radar on February 22, 2010, 03:52:53 PM
So if we're not legally male until after 35 we shouldn't really worry? I'm assuming as long as you don't go for a student loan or apply for a government job?
Like I said above, no one (cisgender or transgender, male assigned at birth or female assigned at birth, whatever) after age 26 can register with selective service. If you need to apply for student loans or do anything government related though, you should get a SIL. Otherwise, no, it shouldn't really matter.
If i could give anyone any bit of advice once you are male on your license or on any documentation just cover your but and get your letter from the selective service. You never know where life may lead you. And when you do apply for the documentation attach a copy of any document you can think of. I got mine back quick but I think it may have had to do with me sending like 4 documents with it to prove everything.
Quote from: JakeDenver on February 22, 2010, 05:34:03 PM
I got mine back quick but I think it may have had to do with me sending like 4 documents with it to prove everything.
Hunh. I included extra documentation as well because I wanted to be sure that all my bases were covered. Maybe your case was more urgent or less complicated? Well, maybe I'll give them till the end of the month. Maybe.
BTW, the cutoff year is now 1960. If you were born 1960 or later, are now legally male with the feds, are twenty-six or over, and have never registered, you really ought to apply for an exemption letter. I think it's best to get the exemption just in case. As Jake said, you never know where life will take you.
ETA: Jake, I see that you're twenty-one. It could be that your case was expedited because of your age.
Quote from: Kvall on February 22, 2010, 07:59:34 PM
It does matter. Directly from the Selective Service government website:
Legally this is a gray area, because not having an exemption letter means you can be fined and/or jailed, but proving you are FTM would be all it would take to get the charges dropped. Who wants to deal with those kind of charges, though? I would recommend the exemption letter.
I think I've made my points clear. Please show the transman who has been jailed/fined for not having an SIL and I'll gladly back down.
I just sent mine in yesterday. Arch, did you ever get yours back?
How do I get the form to ask for an exemption letter and what documents do they need?
Here's the specific page you want, LordKAT: http://www.sss.gov/Status.html (http://www.sss.gov/Status.html). The forms weren't working when I filled mine out, so I had to go to Google and find one that did work. If you can't download a form, try Google. Or let me know and I'll see if I can hunt up the one I found.
When I first went to the site on the first of January, I thought they had posted a 4-6-week wait time, but I think I was looking at the wait time for something else. Here's what I do know: when I went back to the site at the beginning of March, the wait was about ninety days for new requests. When I went back at the beginning of April, the wait had increased to 120 days for new requests. When I called their office ten days later, the recording said the wait time had increased to 150 days. When I talked to a guy there last Friday, he said they were then processing requests that they had received on January 8. Yes, there's a bit of a backlog.
My SIL should arrive in the mail tomorrow. It was mailed out on Friday afternoon. I sent it off on January 2 or possibly the following Monday, January 4. If we allow about nine or ten days for mailing, it took SSS fourteen weeks (approximately 97 days) to process my request. That's a bit longer than the time period they were estimating two months later. Yet somebody in this thread said that he made his request after I did and received the letter in February.
I thought that the SSS might be prioritizing requests from young guys of draftable age, but the representatives that I spoke to said nothing about any such scheme. You might call and find out if they're doing something like that.
Here's a funny. I got a call from the Census about my job application. I didn't get to talk to the woman who was handling my application--I talked to a guy who was looking at a Post-It that she had placed on my paperwork. Even though I had clearly written on the application that I didn't register because I had an exemption, he told me that the Post-It said I needed to register for the draft now, before I turned twenty-six!! If I did it right away, they might be able to process my app. I interrupted him and said something like, "It's a little late for that. I'm forty-seven." He was quite surprised and started shuffling through my paperwork. Then he said, "Well, you have to fill out a form with the Selective Service. Go to..." I told him that I have an exemption and should have the letter tomorrow. "Oh, then bring it by our office," he said.
I thought it was interesting that the woman had screwed up so badly (was she figuring my age in base 20, or something?) and the guy (admittedly having to wing it) also wasn't really on the ball. These are people in recruitment who have supposedly worked there for months. No wonder the pay is so lousy.
Arch, what do you have to submit to show proof of exemption? Do you have to reveal to them your trans status? I'm guessing yes.
Quote from: Radar on April 21, 2010, 08:51:19 AM
Arch, what do you have to submit to show proof of exemption? Do you have to reveal to them your trans status? I'm guessing yes.
Yes. They will want a copy of your original BC to prove you were born F, which is why you are exempt. I can't remember what other documents they wanted beyond that now. Fuzzy memory at my age, LOL.
Jay
Thanks Arch, It now says 135 days. Wonder what it will say tomorrow.
Quote from: Radar on April 21, 2010, 08:51:19 AM
Arch, what do you have to submit to show proof of exemption? Do you have to reveal to them your trans status? I'm guessing yes.
Yes. As Jay indicates, I was told to provide a birth certificate to verify that I was designated female at birth. To document my sex change, I gave them a copy of my surgeon's letter. It says that my transition is complete and that I am male. I also included copies of my most recent driver's licenses--the last two, which I kept for some reason, show me as female, and the latest one shows me as male. They also knew my SSN, so they could look me up there as well if they really wanted to.
If you have changed your name, definitely include your name-change documentation to link the birth name to your current name. Otherwise, they have no good way to know that Jane Doe is really John Doe. Or whatever.
I'm bummed. My letter didn't come today. So I guess tomorrow's pretty much a sure thing. Except that nothing is...
Post Merge: April 22, 2010, 06:34:11 PM
The letter came. Finally.
I don't know why, but this makes me feel more official. More officially male, I mean.
By the way, thank you for bringing this up. I don't have a copy of my original birth certificate, and it occurs to me that I really ought to have it for this and for other legal matters before I change things on it.
Also, congrats on finally getting your letter.
Quote from: M.Grimm on April 26, 2010, 08:03:22 PM
By the way, thank you for bringing this up. I don't have a copy of my original birth certificate, and it occurs to me that I really ought to have it for this and for other legal matters before I change things on it.
Also, congrats on finally getting your letter.
Thanks. I had to work SO hard to get it. ;)
Yeah, it's always good to have a birth certificate lying around. And you never know when you might want a Status Information Letter. I was telling someone (a fellow trans man) that my letter had finally arrived, and he said airily, "Oh, I never applied for one. Didn't see the point." I replied, "Obviously, you've never applied for a federal job." Besides, it's good to have your status sorted out in case there are questions later. I've never heard of a trans guy who got in trouble for not registering, but I like to be prepared. Next step, my passport.
Better safe than sorry, says I. Also, I'm currently in college and I'll be transitioning during this time, which means it may become an issue if I need to deal with any loans/financial aid. And who knows what I'll need when I re-enter the workforce. I'm getting a little fireproof lockbox where I can keep all of this stuff, too.
Quote from: M.Grimm on April 26, 2010, 09:33:54 PMI'm getting a little fireproof lockbox where I can keep all of this stuff, too.
Smart. Although if you live in Arizona, you might want a second birth cert to carry around in case the Nazis, er, officials ask for your papers.
Just thinking about this, if your BC has changed gender and been impounded, how do you prove being born female?
Quote from: LordKAT on April 27, 2010, 01:34:37 AM
Just thinking about this, if your BC has changed gender and been impounded, how do you prove being born female?
I would say to get a couple of certified copies of the original version (and put them in a fireproof safe or a bank safe deposit box--or, better yet, spread them around in different locations). Keep any old IDs like state IDs and/or driver's licenses and/or old passports. Put them in the safe as well. Get an official copy of your SSA activity (an SS-5 of the original application)--it will show that you started out life designated female. You can always get a new one within weeks, but it's good to have one handy. And, of course, hang onto any surgery letters you get.
have no original BC, nor past ID's as the DMV takes them when you renew, never had a passport and SSA I will have to see about. When I was there I asked for the paper showing the change but they said I wasn't allowed to have a copy of that. Still have the surgery letter tho.
Quote from: LordKAT on April 27, 2010, 02:25:32 AM
have no original BC, nor past ID's as the DMV takes them when you renew, never had a passport and SSA I will have to see about. When I was there I asked for the paper showing the change but they said I wasn't allowed to have a copy of that. Still have the surgery letter tho.
Too bad about the DMV--in my state, they just punch a hole in the license and hand it back to you. With the SSA, I couldn't get proof that I was legally male, either--I asked at the office, and they said to inquire at the main office back east; when I did that, I was told to inquire at my local office. It's stupid. But I do need proof that they actually changed the F to an M, and I haven't followed up yet. However, the SSA maintains a record of all of your transactions with them, and you can always get the SS-5 for a price. They keep your application on micro.
If a birth cert was filed for you and you haven't already changed it, order some now. The state I was born in doesn't allow a change, only an amendment. So I haven't seen the point of going down that road. Maybe the law will change someday, but I don't think it will change anytime soon. That's the South for you...
Here it is amended until you have the original impounded and a new one made.