I have a presentation to do for one of my college classes. My professors expect me to wear a dress shirt, dress pants and tie for it, or else my entire group will lose marks. Right now I wear gender neutral clothing to cope with having to be a boy during school, so the idea of being forced to wear formal mens clothing depresses me. I really don't want to do this and I know it will effect my comfort level if I do... but I can't let my group mates down either. I'm not sure what to do. :(
I feel for you in this situation. But we all have had to do uncomfortable things before we have been able to fully transition. Heck, some here go most of their lives being uncomfortable in the clothes they used to wear. I think you can suck it up for a simple presentation. Don't let your group mates down. Change right before you have to leave for the presentation and take a change of clothes with you so that you can change immediately after your presentation is done.
That sucks big time, but ashley is right.
Try to think of it as acting, you are playing the part of a male giving a presentation. Maybe that will help.
But there is no reason why you can't fem it up a little and have some fun with it. Paint your nails a bright color, put a flower in your hair, lip gloss, wear some beads.
Alternatively get some ultra sexy nickers and stockings and wear them underneith. Maybe that will help.
Best of luck!
Go talk with the teacher ask if they will reconsider. If not wear whatever you want Under your shirt and tie.
Don't mess up your team mates grades, that would not win you any points.
Quote from: Radical Rachel on February 25, 2010, 12:57:29 PM
I have a presentation to do for one of my college classes. . . .I'm not sure what to do. :(
Rachel, get a pinstripe suit - nothing says "
masculine look" more than that!
Now *on sale (http://www.roamans.com/Product.aspx?PfId=180597&ProductTypeId=1&affiliate_id=017&affiliate_location_id=01&mr:referralID=be0c6bed-2254-11df-a274-000423bb4e79)* for $26.99! (you can always add a few buttons & the
tie part I'm sure you can figure out on yer own!)
*signed*
Your Local Authority on Female CD'ing!
I can relate, I had to wear a suit and tie up until my last day presenting male. Each day was torture, but I survived. Towards the end, I actually got gendered female while wearing a suit and tie. It's not easy, but if there was a way around it I would have avoided it too.
Kat
All women look sexy in suit and tie. :D
Just keep that in mind.
I got told I had to wear a dress to graduation. I didn't. I wore...black string bikini with white moons on it. Not exactly male but at least not a dress and not what they said I had to do. It was a rebellious statement because I had never heard of trans anything.
I think this is a perfect opportunity to get a very nicely cut female suit. Nice blouse and sexy wide tie. Goes well with nice heels. It is very much a classic female cut.
I'm not sure how your development is but but a nice suit should show your feminine shape to its glory.
If not put up with it. Smile. And show what a woman you are with perfect grooming, nice subtle makeup, earrings and nails. Nice chance to say 'I'm a girl in a boys suit, and can't you all tell'
Good luck & remember it is only a very small part of life. Don't let it bother you
Hugs
Cindy
Yes it sounds like you need to do something which will make you feel uncomfortable, I think that once you've done it you can make up for it by wearing more daring neutral clothes for a while, that will help you get through it 8)
What totally confuses me about this whole situation - and I TOTALLY sympathize with you Rachel - is what kind of college makes students put on a suit and tie to make a presentation? I mean, I went to college a long, long time ago and neither I, nor anyone I knew ever depended upon being smartly dressed in order to get a decent grade. Given the horrendous clothes we were all wearing back then, perhaps we should have been. It might have been an improvement!! :)
???? i love suit and tie!!! even now i still wear a tie at times...very unconventional for girls but gives a very definite style...
Depending on how high level/what class this is, poor kids may not HAVE dress clothes to wear at that age, so... it's really unfair to expect someone to have to go out and drop at least $40 if not more to get random dress clothes for a project. Of course if you go to a 2nd hand store you could probably get it for $15-20. If the prof is a real dick about it you may just do it and report it to the department head/dean. If it's a higher level business class then you're probably boned, equally so if it's a prickish university.
Or alternately, if you have the money, get a womens' suit. Believe me, womens' suits are friggin' awesome. Slacks that fit and shape your body, and blazers that flare and give you hips. If your group wears bulky mens' suits you'll really stand out, so do be mindful of that.
If you are expected to do button down shirt + tie, you're going to have to tuck it in unlike womens' shirts - so be careful, a lot of womens' dress shirts are NOT designed to be tucked. You'll want to go with full sleeve (not 3/4) button down that is long enough to tuck into pants.
Last presentation I had to give for school, I wore my suit, but then I wear it to work, school, out and about regularly. My only light jacket is my blazer :laugh:
I've only worn a real tie once (and I learned how to tie it), but I dug it. They're hot on chicks and honestly can be hot on guys if done right, too. Just, most don't.
The only real problem with the whole 'dressing nice' as a guy is that the shirts are big and puffy and dumb and the pants are big and baggy and have no shape. Womens' suiting clothing alleviates that. And the blazer also covers any stupid shirt poofing you get in the back.
don't do it! just wear something gender neutral that is nice. if the professor takes points off, ask him why, and explain to him that what you were wearing was suitable for a presentation. if he starts challenging you with your gender, then that's discrimination. i had to do a senior project about a month ago, and they told boys to wear suits and ties, and girls to wear just something that looked nice. i wore something that just looked nice, and it was gender neutral. no one cared, because what could they say? "i'm not passing you, because you don't look manly enough." that sounds like pure discrimination to me.
Thank you for the advice, everyone. I think i'll wear some jewelry, a bit of make up and something pretty underneath. ^_^ I don't know if I can afford a female suit before then, because I'm budgeting for a few things for transition (My initial laser therapy session, ear piercing, etc.) but I'll get one soon for future presentations and interviews.
Quote from: Carlita on February 26, 2010, 06:41:12 AM
What totally confuses me about this whole situation - and I TOTALLY sympathize with you Rachel - is what kind of college makes students put on a suit and tie to make a presentation? I mean, I went to college a long, long time ago and neither I, nor anyone I knew ever depended upon being smartly dressed in order to get a decent grade. Given the horrendous clothes we were all wearing back then, perhaps we should have been. It might have been an improvement!! :)
It's a simulated product pitch for our major project (to create a marketable media product from start to finish) so they want us to dress professional and formal. I can understand their reasoning behind it but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Quote from: NicoleFoxFan on February 26, 2010, 11:30:30 PM
don't do it! just wear something gender neutral that is nice. if the professor takes points off, ask him why, and explain to him that what you were wearing was suitable for a presentation. if he starts challenging you with your gender, then that's discrimination.
There is still the risk that I would let my group mates down if he were to decide that was not okay. I could take it to the dean, but I'm not sure how that will go, since I'm not out full time (only two of my classmates know). I'm pretty sure that this is one of those cases in which I have to make the most out of a bad situation and find ways to make it more comfortable for myself.
Kohls has pretty nice womens clothing in general, I'm starting to shop there for my casual stuff. Sears actually has a lot of suiting separates and office appropriate stuff for women and is where I got my blazer and my slacks at $40/blazer and $24? for the slacks. Wear them all the time.
You could probably find an okay blazer at a second hand store, the other stuff, depends - but the last place I went had an entire rack of womens' pantsuits, some never worn.
Around here they have something called "Career Closet". They provide for free, to students and job seekers, clothing appropriate for job interviews and business type work. Is anything like that available near you? Check with job service or such.
rachel, you have a right to confidentiality. the dean may not disclose that information to anyone else. in the end it's your decision. i'm just telling you what i would do, because you shouldn't have to go through with this if you don't want to.
Borrow it from some guy you know who has one, the cost of that is just doing the polite thing and dry cleaning it for him when you're done.
And some of the styles are pretty damn close. I have a DKNY women's suit that looks just like a men's suit more or less. (The differences are so subtle that only women seem to notice, they escape most guys.)
And technically they are not forcing you to do anything, since taking the class, and being in the university itself is a matter of your choice in the first place.
I'm assuming this is a business class. Presenting a confident, conformist look is important in business probably more than anywhere else. So get over it. Or get on with your transition.
This might be a sign you're in the wrong field.
As it turns out there are lots, and lots, and lots of work environments in the real world that have dress codes, some formal (written) some informal, but still just as binding. Business have formal codes, largely because they are paying you not to be yourself, but to represent them.
A dressy trouser suit and a smart silk blouse. Wear your hair up and dangly earrings. I would add a pair of stilettos!
Quote from: Alyssa M. on February 27, 2010, 12:44:02 PM
I'm assuming this is a business class. Presenting a confident, conformist look is important in business probably more than anywhere else. So get over it. Or get on with your transition.
This might be a sign you're in the wrong field.
It's not a business program or a business class. I'm in media arts and this particular class is a creative cumulative project. I know this the career field for me, because I enjoy working with media and design and am also talented at what I do.
I can't really transition full time right now. I know that if I come out at school there is a good chance that I will be treated differently by not only my classmates but my professors as well. My plan is to go full time once I graduate and I am getting the laser therapy and voice therapy out of the way, while I wait for that wonderful day.
I already decided that I would go through with this ordeal, but try to make the best of it. I'm going to wear something cute on underneath and put on a bit of my jewelry on to at least keep a little bit of my personal dignity intact.
I would personally tell the teacher to screw herself and ask one of my teammates to do the presentation themselves. I wouldn't put up with that ->-bleeped-<-.
as long as you are willing to do it, that's all that matters.
I'd say there's a 100% chance that if you transition, you will be treated differently by people around you. ;) School is often one of the best places to do so. Also, getting a diploma in the correct name can save you some heartache. Conversely, waiting until you graduate can mean being stressed out more by, well, things like this. Of course, transitioning while in school causes other stresses.
I remember the last time I wore a suit, and it really sucked. I felt ridiculous, and I don't think it looked good at all, because I was just so ill at ease. You have my sympathy and best wishes. :)
Well I must only say I feel sorry for you. I would NOT use suite nor necktie no matter what because I would just look funny in it and definably would not feel good. Having said that, I was told by some though to get a nice female business suit so I might go for something like this... but just need to loose some weight first.
http://burninsilence.tv/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/business-skirt.jpg (http://burninsilence.tv/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/business-skirt.jpg)
Quote from: Kiera on February 25, 2010, 03:32:37 PM
Rachel, get a pinstripe suit - nothing says "masculine look" more than that!
Now *on sale (http://www.roamans.com/Product.aspx?PfId=180597&ProductTypeId=1&affiliate_id=017&affiliate_location_id=01&mr:referralID=be0c6bed-2254-11df-a274-000423bb4e79)* for $26.99! (you can always add a few buttons & the tie part I'm sure you can figure out on yer own!)
*signed*
Your Local Authority on Female CD'ing!
Oh ->-bleeped-<-e, I'm on the estrogens but I totally want a pinstripe suit! Am I violating the Sacred Secret Rules Of Being Trans? ???
That's OK, I want a real zoot suit so bad, and that's not a popular style for old white people like me, but I'm just El Pachuco at heart - old school.
actually just to point out: girl in an oversized man's shirt looks cute if not hot. keyword here is *girl*.
so rachael if you are serious about this transition thingy (and not some teenage passing fancy) you got to prioritise and make plans, which means going to a therapist and if your doctor dictate hormones are on your no. 1 list, not punching earholes. and yes i would say school is a good place to transit, a lot better than when you're out at work...i mean, in a school you are paying them like a customer, and at work they're paying you to be their slave...sort of...
and on your voice training...there are plenty of materials on youtube and all you need is a recorder internet and some private space...so many girls here lament about their voice but all it takes is constant exercise and putting your mind on it!
Quote from: milktea on February 28, 2010, 10:17:35 AM
actually just to point out: girl in an oversized man's shirt looks cute if not hot. keyword here is *girl*.
so rachael if you are serious about this transition thingy (and not some teenage passing fancy) you got to prioritise and make plans, which means going to a therapist and if your doctor dictate hormones are on your no. 1 list, not punching earholes. and yes i would say school is a good place to transit, a lot better than when you're out at work...i mean, in a school you are paying them like a customer, and at work they're paying you to be their slave...sort of...
and on your voice training...there are plenty of materials on youtube and all you need is a recorder internet and some private space...so many girls here lament about their voice but all it takes is constant exercise and putting your mind on it!
I'm currently on a waiting list for a therapist. In the mean time I'm working on what I can to make things run smoothly when I do go full time.
You aren't the first person who has said school would be the best place to come out and go full time and, believe me, I would love to go full time as soon as I can. This is definitely something to take into consideration, but not something I want to do without thought or planning. Do you have any advice on how to come out during school, should I consider going through with it?
I have actually developed a pretty fair female voice by doing what you just suggested. It does need more adjustment and practice but I am definitely on the right track there.
Well, the basic first step would be to find the queer student center or support group on your campus and start attending. Familiar faces and a safe place to be yourself can help you feel less alone, and real-life people at your school can give you specific advice about how to handle the process there. If there's no such group, there's probably at least one person on your school's faculty who's taken on the responsibility for supporting/mentoring LGBTQ students - search your school's website for things like "queer," "Safe Space," "LGBT," and "GLBT" to see what comes up.
The next step depends - you can start the legal transition by changing your name and then just go in to the next term with your correct name and gender expression, or you can choose to come out to your professors and ask them to use your preferred name, and delay the name change until later (but it's something you want to do before graduating).
Coming out to your professors could seem intimidating ,but the truth is that of all the people who are important in your life, they're likely the easiest. They don't know you very well, they're not attached to you emotionally, they can't fire you, they run a serious risk of losing their job if they even look like they're discriminating against you, and they really have no stake in your gender identity one way or another. And they deal with far, far more touchy subjects on a daily basis...handling a cheater, or a kid whose mother keeps calling to demand better grades, or a student with an abusive spouse who won't let them leave the house to come to class, or a student hospitalized after being beaten coming out of a gay bar, or any of the other really distressing things professors deal with is going to be far more stressful than a simple change in how one student prefers to be addressed.
are you talking in your fem voice 24/7? that's the best way really, and of cos consciously and constantly thinking up ways to improve it...
the truth is that of all the people who are important in your life, they're likely the easiest
True that, and not even for the many reasons listed, it's largely because we just don't care. And, I don't mean 'we don't mind,' I mean that we don't give a damn at all. Not that we don't care about you (sort of we do, kinda, not really) but its more that given all the stuff going down, it seems like such a minor and trivial matter to the world at large.*
That why I'll kinda side with the proff here and the dress code - its sort of pretending, and playing dress up like a grown up2 and all that (I'm sure the teacher thinks of it as 'real life training in the world of work' and all that) - because it is the way it works in that real world deal. Whenever I had students complain to me that college sucked and had nothing to do with the real world, I would remind them that, in fact, college sucking was excellent preparation for the real world, which they will find out, also sucks.
In reality, no one is ever going to hire you based on what you wear to the interview. That being said, dressing wrong will assure you that you don't get hired.
One person's fashion, is just costume to everyone else. 'Twas ever thus.
*I've worked for well over a decade now (off and on) with a guy called Brian Warner. Except he doesn't want to be called Brian - guess it's not evil enough, the minions of the almighty prince of darkness are not running around with names like 'brian'. So he calls himself Marylin Manson. And, if you ever want to see the gates of hell open and all the anger of the gods poured out in rage and fury you don't need to buy his records, all you have to do is call him Brian. He's so cute when he gets mad. But, either way, what's it to me?
2 - Though if any student of mine had their mother calling me it damn well better be for some sort of sex hook-up. 'Cause if you still have your mom defending you, well, perhaps college is not the place for you to be. You are not ready for the world of work, I doubt if you're ready for high school. Cheaters on the other hand were easy, I failed them - flat F - as per my syllabus, and as I also said in the syllabus, I did my best to get your ass kicked out of the college. It was kind of fun part of the job, like brutality is for a lot of cops. I did give shelter to two different women at my house for the abuse deal, and helped a lot more without putting myself, my life, and my families life on the line. And I never had a student beat up for coming out of a gay bar, not even in Iowa. (Though I almost gave a few heart attacks when I saw them in there.) Though I had plenty spend the night in the free motel for a DIU, gay and straight.
I'm sure the teacher thinks of it as 'real life training in the world of work' and all that
Exactly. And depending on the field, it's likely pointless and a bit petty. In other words, fairly representative of the real world and par for the course for requirements of a college class.
god im glad i went to school for anthropology...... weirdos are the norm, and the more removed from general society you are, the better anthropologist you make. ok, well i was glad i did anthropology, until i graduated and couldnt get a job in it. oh well, you win some battles, you lose some....
Well, I showed them. I wore a cute formal top that I found in my closet, and did myself up nice and pretty and said my piece with confidence and dignity. And, though, I had more of the effeminate male look than 100% lady look I feel that this was a big step in my coming out and going full time. I've been giving it thought and I'm going to discuss with my coordinator about coming to school next semester as a woman. ^_^
Great job! That sounds like it was an awesome experience. Good on you for turning this into something empowering for yourself. ;D