To be honest, I'm still not sure what I am. I was raised as a girl, and I guess I didn't really question it that much. I didn't really fit in with the other kids. Playing house was boring, so I ended up with the guys most of the time, until 4th grade or so. After that, I was an outcast in general. It didn't bother me: most people are boring. If they don't want to hang around with me, why would I want to hang around with them? I never really saw it as a gender thing, at the time.
To make things more complicated, maybe, I wasn't really raised to be super girly, either. I had the Polly Pockets and the Barbies, sure. But I also had Hot Wheels and Lego and K-nex. I wasn't a princess. I was an adventurer, a scientist, a hero.
In 8th grade, I started dating girls, so that made me a "lesbian". I didn't, and don't, like the word too much. It sounds too feminine. It slips off your tongue like a whisper, a fairy tale. I preferred "dyke". Dyke is still the only identity word I feel really comfortable in. It does imply female, sure. But it has a hard edge to it. It's a fierce word, a challenge, a call to arms.
"Woman", on the other hand. Not so much. It feels distant. In using it for myself, I feel a bit awkward. Like, "yeah, woman, okay. I know I'm not a man, so I guess that's all right."
And I've always felt such a draw to androgynous people. From the emo singers I obsessed over in my pre-teen years to the pierced and skinny girls I silently watched in high school, many of whom eventually went on to become transmen. And there's always been envy there. For sure, those are the people I'm attracted to. But it feels like so much more than that. It's a blow to the chest, a lump in my throat, almost panic. And longing like I couldn't possibly describe. I could spend hours trying to articulate this intense pull, and still not get it across. Maybe it's just sexual, but I really doubt it.
I probably would never have thought about it very much, but being a responsible leftist and "dyke," I started reading in gender theory and the like. And to be honest, I'm just eating it up. I could, and have, spend hours on genderfork. I've been getting every book about trans and gender issues I can from the library. Right now, I'm going though Kate Barnstein's my gender workbook. Not all of it resonates, but so much more of it does than any gender binary lit has.
More recently, I've taken on a more ambiguous aesthetic. My hair is cut short and dyed blue, it seems like most of the clothing I'm buying is in men's sizes. I've been trying to be less feminine in my body language, and working out. I feel more confident now that I can ever remember feeling before. It's not a coming home feeling, but my issues with panic and depression seem to be lessening (fingers crossed).
That being said, I still do enjoy wearing make-up and skirts and corsetry. But I think I would even if I had been born a "boy". After all, I'm a Goth as well, and really...
There's a final piece to this puzzle: I've never really experienced gender dysphoria. I'm not really sure if most androgynes and genderqueer folk do, but I got that impression. Sure, I really want to bind. I wish my breasts were smaller, absolutely. There are days I don't want to see them. But then, there are also days when I love my boobs. And I feel that same hatred for my stomach and thighs, too. Maybe this is because my mother didn't really play gender police very much. Maybe I'm just mistaken.
What it all comes down to is that I'm sort of having an identity crisis. Am I a woman, or not? Is there room in the word "androgyne" for someone like me? I know you out there can't tell me what I am, but if you have any advice, or if something in here resonates with you, please tell me. Anything would help.
Get thee to a gender therapists office post haste.
So...umm...short of a few things...I had to wonder if *I* somehow wrote this cuz...yea. Down to how you feel about the word "woman" and "dyke" I'm with ya.
I'm actually going in for breast reduction surgery soon myself. Yep. Want them, like them, but need them to be smaller.
Depression and anxiety lessening? Yep. I've got my fingers crossed that it lasts too. For sure.
Is there room for you? I think so. Is this the identity for you? Can't say...but I can say that I identify with alot, alot of what you wrote here..and *I* personally identify as androgyn. (FtA Female to Androgyn...actually)
Hello Nyctophile,
In some ways I can identify with what you wrote (kiddy adventures). When I first went through puberty and my body changed I was thrilled since it put me in a 'group'; 'thou art female and hereth thou belongeth' - too bad that didn't work out as planned and apparently puberty doesn't hand out receipts.
Luckily, no one in the world can tell you who or what you are (else we'd probably have a bunch of stupid, purple, pigs wandering about).
Taking 'depression' comes into this game, I'd suggest to see a regular therapist before a gender specialist if you haven't yet. Best to go over the whole book instead of a few pages. But, that's my opinion.
Otherwise I'll give you the same advice someone else gave me when I first came to this forum and seeked selfknowledge through the written text:
'Careful Nyctophile, you tend to become what you read.'
And additionally; if something makes you feel 'well' then don't worry about a possible label to associate with it.
Parts of your story are familiar to me, yup. I'm also just starting out on this androgyny journey and am asking myself many of the same questions.
If androgyne resonates with YOU, then why not give it a whirl? You've noticed that gender ambiguity gives you increased confidence and improves your moods. So continue to push yourself into new territories and find out how that makes you feel: call it whatever you want.
"When in doubt, read, read, read." This is my life motto, and we're probably competing for the same books at the library (or at least I'm competing with someone, the hold lines suggest that there's some demand for trans/gender theory in my lil' library). But although you're going to find a lot of inspiration and information, finding out how and if it relates to your own experience/identities is a matter of getting out and trying it.
Quote from: no_id on March 15, 2010, 09:01:24 AM
Taking 'depression' comes into this game, I'd suggest to see a regular therapist before a gender specialist if you haven't yet.
This may be good advice. I myself have an anxiety disorder and while there's a fair chunk of gender-related issues in the mix, if my gender anxiety magically disappeared, I'd still be anxious. Having tools to deal with general feelings of depression and anxiety, before seeking gender therapy, might be useful (it is for me).
Post Merge: March 15, 2010, 10:27:45 AM
Quote from: no_id on March 15, 2010, 09:01:24 AM
'Careful Nyctophile, you tend to become what you read.'
This is wisdom I'd like to put up next to my bookcase. It sneaks up on me sometimes.
It's so good to know I'm not alone in this. (This is the first time I've really talked about it, actually.)
I'm already in therapy, but not for gender specifically. I'll bring it up the next time I'm in, definitely.
I've always been the sort of person that looks for myself in literature, so there probably is a bit of the "becoming what I read" in here... Maybe I should ease off it for a little while...
tole: I sort of doubt we're at the same library, since I'm up in Atlantic Canada.
(Thank you, everyone. It's so good to know that this resonates with other people.)
stupid purple pigs....interesting
but long as they are purple its all good
Quote from: cynthialee on March 14, 2010, 08:28:06 PM
Get thee to a gender therapists office post haste.
I wouldn't if I were you, you sound like an increasingly fair adjusted androgyne type folk. There's definitely room for you any which way.
I'm not sure how much being raised one way affects this stuff, I was never raised particularly manly and would like to find a softer word like you have found a harder word - a call to tea rather than a call to arms.
Whichever way this develops... welcome and such, have a look through the past posts, y'tend to get a feel for previous type discussions - the topic on fruitcake is particularly useful.
As for purple pigs, I know nothing, however.....
I never saw a purple cow
I never wish to see one
But I'll tell you this anyhow
I'd rather see than be one.
Post Merge: March 15, 2010, 03:53:15 PM
Quote from: no_id on March 15, 2010, 09:01:24 AM
Hello Nyctophile,
Otherwise I'll give you the same advice someone else gave me when I first came to this forum and seeked selfknowledge through the written text:
'Careful, you tend to become what you read.'
I like this, who told you that?
Quote from: LordKAT on March 15, 2010, 03:18:28 PM
stupid purple pigs....interesting
but long as they are purple its all good
Fear my knowledge of common insults. :P
Quote from: Pica Pica on March 15, 2010, 03:50:53 PM
Post Merge: March 15, 2010, 02:53:15 PM
I like this, who told you that?
The one and only Rebis. :)
I believe it was in the 'What kind of Androgyne are You?' poll thread back in ancient history.
Quote from: no_id on March 15, 2010, 05:53:26 PM
Fear my knowledge of common insults. :P
The one and only Rebis. :)
I believe it was in the 'What kind of Androgyne are You?' poll thread back in ancient history.
Good ol' Rebis, I miss 'em.
Indeed that time felt like a bit of a golden age.
Quote from: Pica Pica on March 15, 2010, 06:12:57 PM
Good ol' Rebis, I miss 'em.
Indeed that time felt like a bit of a golden age.
Yep, too bad they aren't around anymore. It was a fun time.
Pica Pica: Talking things through in therapy really does help for me, but I am reluctant to go to someone who specializes in gender. I feel like they might try to push me more towards being either a girl or a transguy...
I don't think being raised one way or another affects your gender identity, but rather, how long it takes you to come to terms, and whether/how bad you get gender dysphoria. In my case, I think the reason I never got seriously dysphoric is because my mom never really played gender police.
May just be my personal distaste of therapy - prefer the pint with a friend on a friday method meself.
Quote from: Nyctophile on March 15, 2010, 07:06:14 PM
Pica Pica: Talking things through in therapy really does help for me, but I am reluctant to go to someone who specializes in gender. I feel like they might try to push me more towards being either a girl or a transguy...
I don't think being raised one way or another affects your gender identity, but rather, how long it takes you to come to terms, and whether/how bad you get gender dysphoria. In my case, I think the reason I never got seriously dysphoric is because my mom never really played gender police.
Therapy can be hit-or-miss -- some people are trying to box people into their original gender, some want to at least fit people into *one gender*, and some are more than happy to just let you be you and make your own decisions, but are there to be supportive of you. My experience has been the latter - my therapist doesn't try to push me into one role or another, and things move along at my pace, rather than someone else's. So best advice I can give on that is try it and see if you like it, but don't feel obligated.
That said, reading your post you seem to be pretty sure about yourself, but maybe not so sure about how you fit into the rest of society -- what should you label yourself so that other people can know who you are, sort of thing. So my question is, do you *want* to find a label for yourself, or do you feel like you're *supposed* to find a label?
Quote from: Ketsy on March 15, 2010, 07:31:39 PM
That said, reading your post you seem to be pretty sure about yourself, but maybe not so sure about how you fit into the rest of society -- what should you label yourself so that other people can know who you are, sort of thing. So my question is, do you *want* to find a label for yourself, or do you feel like you're *supposed* to find a label?
I spend a lot of time by myself, in my head, so yeah, I do know myself pretty well. It's just a matter of expressing myself to others, really. But I do think there's a huge power in words. Naming a thing gives you control over it. And generally speaking, if you don't give yourself a label, someone else will do it for you, so that person effectively gets a certain amount of control over you. And besides, it's so liberating. I mean, I could have several uneasy paragraphs for a strong but formless feeling, or I could have a single word. I think it would be a huge weight lifted.
(This might be just me, but all these people who are rejecting labels bother me. A word can have many meanings, I think. So a label is just a starting point, not a claustrophobic box. Telling someone you use no labels when they're trying to get to know who is like handing them a blank map and expecting them to make sense of it.)
Quote from: Nyctophile on March 15, 2010, 08:46:09 PM
I spend a lot of time by myself, in my head, so yeah, I do know myself pretty well. It's just a matter of expressing myself to others, really. But I do think there's a huge power in words. Naming a thing gives you control over it. And generally speaking, if you don't give yourself a label, someone else will do it for you, so that person effectively gets a certain amount of control over you. And besides, it's so liberating. I mean, I could have several uneasy paragraphs for a strong but formless feeling, or I could have a single word. I think it would be a huge weight lifted.
(This might be just me, but all these people who are rejecting labels bother me. A word can have many meanings, I think. So a label is just a starting point, not a claustrophobic box. Telling someone you use no labels when they're trying to get to know who is like handing them a blank map and expecting them to make sense of it.)
Beautifully expressed, I've been trying to put that case so tidily for ages.
Quote'Careful Nyctophile, you tend to become what you read.'
If this is true, why have I not become a necromancer like Anita Blake?
Humor aside, I do use what I identify with in what I read to learn more about myself. And I identify with female protagonists. (That hasn't caused a sex change though, darn it).
Kendall