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Here's my question - before getting to the point of HRT (for whatever reason) did you use anything that in your opinion helped with any aspect of feminization?
I'm thinking especially of something here I could use ostensibly for innocent reasons in the mean time while I'm waiting for the opportunity to start HRT...
For me I didn't look to much into things like herbal remedies but rather I worked on learning makeup and hair tricks. But perhaps the biggest thing that helped me was dropping form 208 lbs down to 160. I was amazed at how much it femmed me up. I didn't exercise to build muscle but just to loose weight and my body femmed up quite a lot.
Well, in theory phyto-estrogens are in Soya, Red clover etc. As to whether they would make any difference on their own I'm not convinced as they are fairly weak in their potency.
But spearmint tea does have a surprisingly powerful and medically proven anti androgenic effect, to the point where in the UK, some medical practicioners are now actually recommending it for women who have problems with excess body hair.
Postop my partner had body hair concerns for many years. In recent years we have both been drinking delicious spearmint tea and that has now vanished completely.
So I guess it is possible that a combination of soya supplement and spearmint tea might help you...
I've seen that recommendation from you before but for some reason I had convinced myself it was too expensive.
Doesn't seem to be though...
I'm working, sporadically, on the weight thing. Being on the road constantly for this job has made it a lot harder to avoid the temptation for something "un-diet-friendly" that is convenient.
I totally understand that. LOL! Please don't think I was criticizing you though. Thats not what I meant at all. I've still got 30 lbs myself that I need to drop.
I started with finasteride for hair loss, which I got changed to dutasteride last autumn (after convincing my physician that going to the bathroom is easier nowadays, too). From the point of view of my mental well-being the main benefit is that I've grown a small but still noticeable pair of breasts, and while I've lost weight overall my bum is a little bigger than it used to be. The point here is that both of these prevent testosterone from becoming dihydrotestosterone (which is an even more potent androgen), and some of it will turn into oestrogen instead.
A year or so ago I added soy to my daily regimen, in the form of pills marketed for menopausal women. At that time it seemed that they made me feel more energetic and also perhaps increased my libido a bit. I'm not sure about that, though, so a week ago I decided to drop those for a while to see what happens -- if it turns out that taking phyto-oestrogens really makes a difference, perhaps it's time to start thinking about the real thing. As of now, either I'm getting a cold or this experiment is indeed making me a little more tired than usual. Also, my little boobies are hurting, which is a bit surprising as it feels just about the same as a growth spurt.
Anyway, the soy derivatives don't really sound like something an innocent man would use. Medication used for prostate problems and male-pattern hair loss, on the other hand, is about as manly as it gets, there's even a warning to keep the pills out of contact with any women who are or may become pregnant. ;) Of course, it's an entirely different matter whether you can convince both yourself and your doctor that it would be useful to you.
I began with Black Cohosh and Wild Yams, just because they were inexpensive. I then switch to those OTC remedies for Menopause. The results were more mental than anything.
Also did the Flat to Fem thing, but I got lazy.
Finally I got on to HR and I am a lot happier. But the thing that help the most was my Orchie.
And I am trying to find the spearmint tea. There is an herbal shop up the road that I have not checked yet.
Quote from: Janet Lynn on March 19, 2010, 11:45:42 AM
And I am trying to find the spearmint tea. There is an herbal shop up the road that I have not checked yet.
If you can't find it anywhere else cheaper you can get it on Amazon.com Janet. But in the Uk they sell it in Walmart.
Or best of all you can just grow some spearmint in a pot and crush the leaves in boiling water.
Being pre-HRT to try and get more feminizing effects I have been drinking Soy Milk and Spearmint Tea, and changing my diet in general and exercise routine to get rid of my muscle bulk. A few months have made quite a difference in my upperbody size and appearance... so I will keep this up til I can add hormones to it.
Quote from: rejennyrated on March 19, 2010, 06:19:22 AM
But spearmint tea does have a surprisingly powerful and medically proven anti androgenic effect, to the point where in the UK, some medical practicioners are now actually recommending it for women who have problems with excess body hair.
I can so see a bulk order of spearmint tea in my immediate future.
Thanks for the tip jenny
So how much spearmint tea are you supposed to have a day?... Like 1 cup? or a large amount like 5+ cups a day
I can't recall the exact consumption which was used in the medical trial but I think it was of the order of two or three cups a day. In any case you should never consume too much of anything, even tea, so keep your intake sensible.
(I hope that doesn't contravene any rule on dosages as we are talking herbal TEA here and not hormones - if it does then please can some mod just edit this and accept my apologies)
What was interesting was that the tea worked as a free testosterone scavenger in the blood - that is, it didn't alter production, but it removed testosterone already produced from the blood, thereby lowering significantly the free T levels. It might therefore have beneficial effects not only against body hair, but also for anyone fighting Male pattern baldness, as by removing free testosterone it should in theory lower DHT levels and thereby reduce the level of damage caused to the follicles.
However one caution here, as all the triallists were female and normal (postop) female ranges are a lot lower than male ranges it remains unproven how effective it would be for anyone who still has male dangly bits attached. It will undoubtedly have some effect... but the question is how much.
If it even fractionally reduces my hated chewbacca cheeks, I will be very happy girl indeed.
Quote from: rejennyrated on March 19, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
I can't recall the exact consumption which was used in the medical trial but I think it was of the order of two or three cups a day. In any case you should never consume too much of anything, even tea, so keep your intake sensible.
(I hope that doesn't contravene any rule on dosages as we are talking herbal TEA here and not hormones - if it does then please can some mod just edit this and accept my apologies)
What was interesting was that the tea worked as a free testosterone scavenger in the blood - that is, it didn't alter production, but it removed testosterone already produced from the blood, thereby lowering significantly the free T levels. It might therefore have beneficial effects not only against body hair, but also for anyone fighting Male pattern baldness, as by removing free testosterone it should in theory lower DHT levels and thereby reduce the level of damage caused to the follicles.
However one caution here, as all the triallists were female and normal (postop) female ranges are a lot lower than male ranges it remains unproven how effective it would be for anyone who still has male dangly bits attached. It will undoubtedly have some effect... but the question is how much.
No more so than talking about coffee or soy milk's effect on the body. After all it is just tea.
I drink soy milk. If anything, it is a great placebo.
Quote from: rejennyrated on March 19, 2010, 06:31:19 PM
I can't recall the exact consumption which was used in the medical trial but I think it was of the order of two or three cups a day. In any case you should never consume too much of anything, even tea, so keep your intake sensible.
(I hope that doesn't contravene any rule on dosages as we are talking herbal TEA here and not hormones - if it does then please can some mod just edit this and accept my apologies)
What was interesting was that the tea worked as a free testosterone scavenger in the blood - that is, it didn't alter production, but it removed testosterone already produced from the blood, thereby lowering significantly the free T levels. It might therefore have beneficial effects not only against body hair, but also for anyone fighting Male pattern baldness, as by removing free testosterone it should in theory lower DHT levels and thereby reduce the level of damage caused to the follicles.
However one caution here, as all the triallists were female and normal (postop) female ranges are a lot lower than male ranges it remains unproven how effective it would be for anyone who still has male dangly bits attached. It will undoubtedly have some effect... but the question is how much.
I am not sure if the small effects I've noticed are real or placebo... it seeems at least I get a bit slower regrowth of hair.. instead of shaving my face everyday I go to 2-3 before I absolutely HAVE to shave. I also noticed slower regrowth on arms and body...again don't know if it is real or just me thinking it is doing anything. I suppose the slimming down and less muscle could be attributed a bit to that and my diet but mostly my newer exercise routines. I do have to give you credit though because I had forgotten to before... because it was your thread a little while back that got me to go get the spearmint tea and give it a shot. Oh well though if that and the soy milk are really not doing anything for me though at least I can say I enjoy them and they are good for me regardless.
It absolutely will NOT do anything for facial hair. As all transwomen know to their cost the only way to remove that is via electolysis.
Tea and soya would only ever be able to effect the same sort of metabolic effects as hormones would have, and then in a rather slower and more gentle way.
So it will indeed only affect body hair and perhaps body mass fat distribution and muscle development.
In other words it may feminise your appearance but it can't reverse masculinisation that has already happened.
*sigh*
At least I've got my tweezers
Quote from: Rock_chick on March 20, 2010, 03:57:58 PM
*sigh*
At least I've got my tweezers
Well to be fair even HRT won't change facial hair. You'll have to get electrolysis if you want to "pass". It's pretty well one of the entirely non optional parts of the MtF experience.
When ever someone comes to me for advice prior to transition I always tell them to start the electrolysis as soon as possible, if they are sure about transition then if possible even before they start their counseling. Because ultimately it will be the speed of progress with electro that will determine how long it takes before you can transition fully and have any chance of fitting in as a female.
Unless you are lucky, like me, and are partially androgen insensitive you can expect the removal of your facial hair to take anything up to two years. But sadly to suceed it's something you just HAVE to do.
I was already starting to look into options, because being fair skinned and dark haired i know it's going to be an issue. Guess this is why they invented overtime.
Quote from: Seshatneferw on March 19, 2010, 11:26:23 AM
I started with finasteride for hair loss, which I got changed to dutasteride last autumn (after convincing my physician that going to the bathroom is easier nowadays, too). From the point of view of my mental well-being the main benefit is that I've grown a small but still noticeable pair of breasts, and while I've lost weight overall my bum is a little bigger than it used to be. The point here is that both of these prevent testosterone from becoming dihydrotestosterone (which is an even more potent androgen), and some of it will turn into oestrogen instead.
A year or so ago I added soy to my daily regimen, in the form of pills marketed for menopausal women. At that time it seemed that they made me feel more energetic and also perhaps increased my libido a bit. I'm not sure about that, though, so a week ago I decided to drop those for a while to see what happens -- if it turns out that taking phyto-oestrogens really makes a difference, perhaps it's time to start thinking about the real thing. As of now, either I'm getting a cold or this experiment is indeed making me a little more tired than usual. Also, my little boobies are hurting, which is a bit surprising as it feels just about the same as a growth spurt.
Anyway, the soy derivatives don't really sound like something an innocent man would use. Medication used for prostate problems and male-pattern hair loss, on the other hand, is about as manly as it gets, there's even a warning to keep the pills out of contact with any women who are or may become pregnant. ;) Of course, it's an entirely different matter whether you can convince both yourself and your doctor that it would be useful to you.
Hmm, very sneaky and clever. I like you already.
So it sounds like this may even retard facial hair growth on the face, while increasing hair growth on the head? Correct me if I'm wrong?
YOU ARE MY HERO
Clever and sneaky rarely work because a) there is always someone there much smarter then you are (and being all sneaky and such you're not noticing them, but they sure are watching you), and b) even slow people catch on eventually.
Quote from: tekla on March 20, 2010, 05:31:56 PM
Clever and sneaky rarely work because a) there is always someone there much smarter then you are (and being all sneaky and such you're not noticing them, but they sure are watching you), and b) even slow people catch on eventually.
quoted for quotation purposes. :D
yes there is probably someone out there much smarter than me. but i wasn't talking about me.
being sneaky means noticing your surroundings. noticing the security cameras, ceiling mounted turrets and EVEN the mastermind who has been stalking you in the shadows the whole time.
being clever means thinking outside of said box and generally in a short amount of time. i consider myself to be somewhat clever although I am more of a slow and laid back learner.
Quote from: JillEclipse on March 20, 2010, 04:32:35 PM
Hmm, very sneaky and clever. I like you already.
I'm not really doing it to be sneaky, it's more a matter of seeing if I can deal with this without having to get a diagnosis for a 'mental disorder', or seek treatments my wife cannot accept. So far I'm pretty optimistic about the latter, the former is a bit more in doubt. Also, it seems prudent to know as much as I can about what I am before trying to convince a psychiatrist that that's what I am, if it turns out I do need to go that route. :)
Quote
So it sounds like this may even retard facial hair growth on the face, while increasing hair growth on the head? Correct me if I'm wrong?
It is supposed to increase hair growth on the head, or to be more precise, delay (and to some extent roll back) male-pattern hair loss. It won't make hair grow any faster, but depending on various things it is likely to make the hair at balding spots thicker. It won't make a difference on the face, though.
Nfr
Pre hormones, nothing but exercise, diet and a good razor. The only problem being that when I get depressed or stressed I tend to over eat. I think I have just about got my weight back in check and I know that I still have about a stone to lose. Difficult considering all the stress I have been under at work recently.
There are so many dodgy feminising products out there, I can see how some desperate girls are likely to be drawn in.
I also have dark hair and fair skin. Laser has been a great success so far. After six sessions, there is hardly a hair left.
I hope his isn't offensive to anyone - I just have to laugh. As far as I know I am a genetic girl and I have had facial hair since I was 10. (I entered puberty earlier than all of my peers) I am not talking about a cute little line of hair over my top lip or a few stray hairs on my chin, like my mom and my sister. No, if I went a week without shaving I would have a full beard! It's actually alot fuller on the right than the left, but still.
When I was 12 I tried Nair. I guess it was for my legs and not my face as it was too strong and took skin off. It was a terrible experience. I also tried my dad's electric razor. OUCH! Nope, that hurt alomost as bad. I found a triple edge vibrating razor and women's shave cream for sensitive skin and I am sticking with that. My fem sister plucks, waxes and bleaches. I just don't have the time or the patience! I doesn't bother me to shave. The alternatives do and probably just because of my previous bad experiences. Only a couple of peeps in my life were a little freaked out about it. Now, if I could just find the right cover up make-up no one would even notice. As for electro, my aunt had it done and it left her with enlarged pores that resemble pock marks on her chin. But, she is very fair and has thin skin. So I guess it's not the common result. I needed to let you gals know there ARE women in the world who shave their faces! You are so not alone on that one. But. if anyone has any suggestions on a good foundation make-up that isn't too expensive, please let me know.
thanx,
Ivy
Quote from: ivy on March 21, 2010, 10:33:35 AM
if anyone has any suggestions on a good foundation make-up that isn't too expensive, please let me know.
thanx,
Ivy
Ivy, A product called dema blend is very good and I used it while I still had a beard before laser. Also there is a product called vaniqua cream for woman which reduces the strength and growth of the facial hair. I used that as well and it begins to work after about 3 months use.
I did see a documentary a few years ago about genetic woman with facial hair and some decided to stop shaving (brave I know) and they had beards. Still that being said I wouldn't want it.
Stardust
Thanx Stardust,
I just googled derma blend and it looks like exactly what I'm looking for. I should probably hit the mall and see if there is someone who who can help me with the basics of application and finding the right shade. So sad, I studied cosmetology in high school and don't remember a thing. I guess I was paying attention to other stuff.
I think I saw the same documentary. I agree, I could never!
Ivy - Derma blend has been around for many years. They may have improved it, but everyone I saw who used it looked rather obvious because it is just Sooooo thick that it looks as if it has been put on with a trowel, while the colour is really too strong. It also goes bright orange under certain types of artificial light.
It's decadess since I had to use any makeup to coverup, but from memory I think Clinique still do a good thick foundation cream which covers reasonably well. My facial hair was never that thick probably because of the intersex condition, but it was noticable until I got it properly zapped, and the clinique covered it well.
Hi jenny,
Thanks. I've heard clinique is very good for sensitive skin. I'm a little afraid of the laser. Is it painful?
Quote from: ivy on March 22, 2010, 01:11:47 PM
Hi jenny,
Thanks. I've heard clinique is very good for sensitive skin. I'm a little afraid of the laser. Is it painful?
Not really - but if your hair is fair then it won't really work. It works well for dark hair. For fair hair you would need electolysis. Done properly it really needn't damage the pores. It sounds like your aunt had it done by someone who wasn't that skilled. I have very sensitive skin, and I've didn't have too much damage, if any at all.
Very little!
I also started with Black Cohosh. Nver did anything though.. But I am gonna look that spearmint tea...
I'm still looking for something that might work! surgery might be the only option?
Quote from: ivy on March 21, 2010, 10:33:35 AM
I hope his isn't offensive to anyone - I just have to laugh. As far as I know I am a genetic girl and I have had facial hair since I was 10. (I entered puberty earlier than all of my peers) I am not talking about a cute little line of hair over my top lip or a few stray hairs on my chin, like my mom and my sister. No, if I went a week without shaving I would have a full beard! It's actually alot fuller on the right than the left, but still.
When I was 12 I tried Nair. I guess it was for my legs and not my face as it was too strong and took skin off. It was a terrible experience. I also tried my dad's electric razor. OUCH! Nope, that hurt alomost as bad. I found a triple edge vibrating razor and women's shave cream for sensitive skin and I am sticking with that. My fem sister plucks, waxes and bleaches. I just don't have the time or the patience! I doesn't bother me to shave. The alternatives do and probably just because of my previous bad experiences. Only a couple of peeps in my life were a little freaked out about it. Now, if I could just find the right cover up make-up no one would even notice. As for electro, my aunt had it done and it left her with enlarged pores that resemble pock marks on her chin. But, she is very fair and has thin skin. So I guess it's not the common result. I needed to let you gals know there ARE women in the world who shave their faces! You are so not alone on that one. But. if anyone has any suggestions on a good foundation make-up that isn't too expensive, please let me know.
thanx,
Ivy
okay there is a coverup stick and it works wonders it is only 1 dollar and I have very thick grayish blue on my upper lip. most guys my age who shave don't have anything. but it works on me it makes the grayish blue almost unnoticable (if i apply it correctly) and im a guy and your a girl so it will probably work even better on you.