Doctor and I found my estrogen levels go from 50-60 in middle of the month to around 200 +- at end of months O_o Without changing dosage at all, doing blood tests the same way each time.
Anyone noticed something like that?
I am much more depressed, moody and FREAKY at middle months when (kinda like last few days) when estrogen is low then much better, happier and calmer during end/start of months..
But I can't find any reason for dose to vary this way..
Edit: T levels also vary but their change is so tiny (my T is usually around 0.2 / 20 depends how you look at it, if it goes up it won't go over 0.3 / 30).
T increases when estrogen is lower if I remember..
You might want to have full bloodwork, an ultrasound pelvic exam and a full set of genetic profiles done.
You might just be intersexed and not know it. I was. It's not that common, but it certainly isn't unheard of to go undetected until puberty or later, particularly if you only have one of the partial forms of it.
There are several androgen receptor genes to ask them to check. I would list them but I honestly cant recall them all from memory I think one is called 5AR - but hopefully someone else can supply the info - anyone care to chip in on this and supply a list?
It's NOT enough just to check the sex chromasomes. You can show up as normal XY blood karotype and still be intersexed if you carry any of the genes associated with androgen insensitivity.
Then again to play devil's advocate, I have heard that some people do fluctuate like that without any obvious explaination, but I would certainly think about getting screened for IS conditions.
I don't care if I am intersexed or not.. I want a bit of sanity O_o
Post Merge: March 20, 2010, 10:55:56 AM
sorry :) thanks for the reply and information.. just going a bit crazy lately :/ Did you have this kind of estrogen changes and REALLY bad mood swings while it's low?
I never had a blood test of estrogens before Anti-T but when I was on anti-T my estrogen was quite low too. ( a bit below male minimum marked here)
I had heightened prolactin since ever but I have no idea why and it's probably not related, there are plenty of conditions that can cause that..
Quote from: Myself on March 20, 2010, 11:55:04 AM
I don't care if I am intersexed or not.. I want a bit of sanity O_o
Post Merge: March 20, 2010, 10:55:56 AM
sorry :) thanks for the reply and information.. just going a bit crazy lately :/ Did you have this kind of estrogen changes and REALLY bad mood swings while it's low?
I never had a blood test of estrogens before Anti-T but when I was on anti-T my estrogen was quite low too. ( a bit below male minimum marked here)
I had heightened prolactin since ever but I have no idea why and it's probably not related, there are plenty of conditions that can cause that..
Don't apologise. I understand that feeling very well. When too many things are in the air all at once it's absolutely natural to resent any more uncertainty.
The thing is it very probably is all related which is why you do need to ask the right questions and get the answers to them, otherwise you will go on chasing your tail and getting into a metaphorical medical pickle where nothing makes much sense.
If you were IS and had some residual internal female parts they could be interacting with the HRT. In which case you need to know so that the regimen can be adapted to work better with, rather than against your body.
The result doesn't change WHAT you do, just how you do it.
So it's in your interest to find out the truth, although I understand that it may not be the answer that you want to find.
To answer your question, yes I too have always had mood swings, although not quite as bad as you seem to be having. Sadly that is just the luck of biology. If you look around at natal females some have worse PMT than others. You clearly are one of the unlucky ones for which PMT is quite severe.
I sympthise fully!
Thank you :)
I will ask my gynecologist then to look into it a bit more because it's driving me crazy. Yesterday I woke up feeling good, then cried for an hour, then felt better,, started studying, started feeling irritated and sad again, couldn't focus, felt happy at the evening.. finally today I managed to finish one chapter, and today didn't lack mood swings either :/
I don't have a problem finding out I don't have internal organs of female or that I am not intersex by any test, I don't question my gender identity at all, just trying to pass a day feeling good somehow (and hopefully being good too!). I know it will probably be over in a few days.. and this just adds to the "nonsense" going on because I am pretty sure it is not supposed to happen.
That happens to me too. It doesn't matter on my dose, my E levels (and LH and FS levels) will change a lot depending on the time of the month, usually by hundreds of units. It confounded my doctor too, since he's never seen it. I've had that happen both pre and post-op.
As for intersex, that is a possibility, although a lot of doctors don't know how to deal with that or what to do. I've run into that problem with my doctor.
Quote from: gothique11 on March 20, 2010, 04:11:39 PM
That happens to me too. It doesn't matter on my dose, my E levels (and LH and FS levels) will change a lot depending on the time of the month, usually by hundreds of units. It confounded my doctor too, since he's never seen it. I've had that happen both pre and post-op.
As for intersex, that is a possibility, although a lot of doctors don't know how to deal with that or what to do. I've run into that problem with my doctor.
Well I'm a case in point.
In my case the fact that I was already taking progesterone, and cycling my hormone dosage meant that we were able, with a bit of fiddling, to get the cycles more or less in sync and adjust the dosages so that everything remained within normal ranges at all times. It takes a bit of time to get it right but it can be done.
Quote from: gothique11 on March 20, 2010, 04:11:39 PM
That happens to me too. It doesn't matter on my dose, my E levels (and LH and FS levels) will change a lot depending on the time of the month, usually by hundreds of units. It confounded my doctor too, since he's never seen it. I've had that happen both pre and post-op.
As for intersex, that is a possibility, although a lot of doctors don't know how to deal with that or what to do. I've run into that problem with my doctor.
Do you also go crazy for few days a month?
Quote from: Myself on March 20, 2010, 05:27:10 PM
Do you also go crazy for few days a month?
I think we all do... it's only the degree which varies slightly. I have definite and clearly identifiable PMT symptoms and my partner can always tell when I'm "starting".
yeah, I pms and get cramps. o_0
Quote from: gothique11 on March 21, 2010, 03:50:13 AM
yeah, I pms and get cramps. o_0
Sorry to break in, but this made me laugh.
I was at my gay men's group a week or so ago. It's a big group, so we keep adding chairs and cramming everyone in. I was feeling protective of my personal space that day, so I was trying to carve out some room between me and the guys around me. The fellow to my right said, "Feeling cramped?" "Yes," I replied, "I always feel cramped here. Must be that time of the month." We both laughed, and he made some remark about having hot flashes (I think he is in his sixties). I almost said something like, "Oh, I had hot flashes for a couple of years...don't you hate it?" I caught myself and said instead, "Gee, is that what I have to look forward to?!"
Of course, he doesn't know I'm trans. :D
Quote from: Myself on March 20, 2010, 05:27:10 PMDo you also go crazy for few days a month?
god yes I get it just about every 24 days. My breasts are sore, I cry at everything, I feel bloated and gain water weight, sometimes my face breaks out, I get migraines. the symptoms evolve but the whole thing lasts a little over a week. I live in a house with 2 menstruating women and I always know when they are about to start because I get the same symptoms. There are some PMS vitamins I take (B6 and zinc) that help a little. But by far the strongest symptom is definitely the rollercoaster emotions.
Quote from: FairyGirl on March 21, 2010, 05:42:24 AM
god yes I get it just about every 24 days. My breasts are sore, I cry at everything, I feel bloated and gain water weight, sometimes my face breaks out, I get migraines. the symptoms evolve but the whole thing lasts a little over a week. I live in a house with 2 menstruating women and I always know when they are about to start because I get the same symptoms. There are some PMS vitamins I take (B6 and zinc) that help a little. But by far the strongest symptom is definitely the rollercoaster emotions.
That is one of the most interesting replies so far because of course there is some observed data suugesting that sometimes a group of closely knit females living in close proximity will tend to synchronise their menstrual cycles. It's by no means a proven effect in humans, but it is intriguing.
Intersexed is a real possibility, I too have PMS and had hot flushes before HRT (50yr old, lol). I still get PMS and I do have a neo vagina not fully formed that was only found last year. I suspect that a number of trans people are in fact intersexed. It makes sense really and perhaps transsexualism is an intersexed condition if the scientific theory of brain mismatch to body is right.
At the end of the day it doesn't make much difference except how my SRS will be done. I have a regime of HRT that mimics a female cycle and that helps.
Stardust
Yeah, if you live with other women you'll synch up. Happens to me. I also break out at that time.
Quote from: rejennyrated on March 21, 2010, 06:37:22 AM
That is one of the most interesting replies so far because of course there is some observed data suugesting that sometimes a group of closely knit females living in close proximity will tend to synchronise their menstrual cycles. It's by no means a proven effect in humans, but it is intriguing.
It does happen, I can say from experience. Takes 1-2 years usually to synchronize. It still baffles me that MTF women have menstrual cycles though.
Quote from: SilverFang on March 22, 2010, 03:08:20 AM
It does happen, I can say from experience. Takes 1-2 years usually to synchronize. It still baffles me that MTF women have menstrual cycles though.
Well in my case, and in Stardust's case, it's probably something to do with actually having being intersexed... and although I don't know enough about them to say for sure it may well also be so for the others.
I posted a topic about us having a monthly cycle in this thread:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,69765.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,69765.0.html)
It's true. My therapist who is very educated about our issues and hormone research has already informed me this is a symptom of us taking estrogen. We have a monthly cycle. That week when you are feeling cranky,depressed, and having horrid cramps is your "period" and your body apparently wont process as much estrogen. You might even notice a strong or fishy odor down there at this time of the month.
However, the time you are calm, relaxed, feeling like yourself again is when your body is processing estrogen correctly and the hormone level therefore reads higher. The estrogen levels continue to rise after your period ends until they reach their peak level. Once they reach their peak, they start to drop again and again until you start your period again.
This is just how a genetic female's body works when it comes to hormone usage. We are so lucky to have cycles but also cursed in a way with all its side effects of constant changing hormone levels, but its something I would put up with any day just to experience what a girl is supposed to go through :)
how can you have cramps without uterus? doesn't make sense to me.
Right now I am having stomach pains but I think I just ate something. I don't see in any way in the world how it can be related. Maybe I am just a bit more stomach sensitive because last 2 days I had a bit of pain too (due lighter than today), but I doubt it's related as THERE IS NO UTERUS!
Painful breasts are probably related though :/ (started today)
Some intersex people do have a uterus - it's just absolutely TINY - often less than 1cm across and has never developed fully. Which is why it takes a really thorough ultra sound pelvic exam to find!
There is no way I have an uterus O_o Probably just the stomach or intestine! The pain is just around the belly button, uterus is supposed to be lower anyways.
Well I guess that's a genuine mystery then...
a little late to the game, but I get some PMS type symptoms during my trough week (E levels are usually lowest, and it's the week right before I'm due for an injection. It got so bad that I started cutting last year (something I hadn't done for like 15 years. I mean, srsly, WTF?). I started keeping track of my moods in my day planner and realized that it was every 4 weeks, almost like clockwork. My endo's solution was to switch injection frequency to every 2 weeks (hope that's not too close to dosage information for this site) and that's helped quite a bit.
Well today I am feeling much better. Started getting better sometime yesterday, I think it's almost suddenly. Well slowly but fast.
I always like the "day after" or the days after, it's like my mood, happiness and calmness is just increased tenfolds, almost like being on happy drug (but I never tried drugs :P) without bad side effects.
I also find it's the days I get a bit more interested in guys and intimacy. O_o much more social too.
On an embarrassing note, someone asked me if I am alright and I said yeah and then he said "that time huh?". eek! I was half embarrassed half "HUH" and it resulted with him being like "It's ok" apparently he is used to it O_o
Would be cool if I had some uterus or something :3 but I still doubt it :/ I don't think I can convince my gynecologist to look into it seriously either, he will just suggest to change the doses a bit probably.
It was too long ago to remember numbers but at age 18 (when I could legally get tested without my mother's permission) my testosterone levels were found to be about 1/2 of normal male levels and oestrogen was about 1/2 of normal female levels and cyclic (which explained why I had natural breast development and very little male development). All levels dropped to "post-menopausal" after SRS and nobody ever explained it all.
Of course that was a long time ago and people still wrote with a quill by oil lamps then ;D
I know that oh, 4 years back or so, my testosterone levels were about half the normal male levels, never had the oestrogen tested, was for some other genetic health issues I have. Hope that'll get me a leg up on HRT when I do actually start :)
Quote from: rejennyrated on March 21, 2010, 06:37:22 AM
That is one of the most interesting replies so far because of course there is some observed data suugesting that sometimes a group of closely knit females living in close proximity will tend to synchronise their menstrual cycles. It's by no means a proven effect in humans, but it is intriguing.
This definitely does happen. Growing up, my mom, sister and I all menstruated at the same time. It made for some interesting times at my house. (especially since my sister is a bathroom hog :P)
Now that my gf has been on hormones for a while, something interesting has happened. At the same time that she began having monthly symptoms, mine went wonky, starting to come in earlier each month until we were synched.
The human body is a weird, complex thing. Every time I think I'm starting to get a grasp of how it works, some new piece of information comes along and amazes me all over again :)
Also, from what I understand, cramps don't actually take place in uterus, at least not all/most of the time. Mine definitely come in quite a bit higher than that, and I also get back aches, arm/leg cramps and muscle fatigue. Not sure what's up with that.
as for my self, I know I have "extra material" there that shouldn't be in a male-bodied person, same with some really badly formed ovaries. I know that through a scan 'cause I was having a lot of inflammation of the parts (they said it was probably endometritis). The docs didn't know what to do, 'cause they've never dealt with anyone like me before. I just went on pain killers. I had it happen for almost 2 months straight. I've had problems before I transitioned, too, and did a scan and they just said that there was partly formed extra material that's not supposed to be there in a male-bodied person.
I've never done a genetic test, although I've thought about it... I just haven't had any real reason to. I will say, that my condition causes me problems and has caused them since I was young. It's not fun, and I usually don't talk about it much. Doctors just don't know what to do and my current family doc just says my biology is how it is and we'd just have to deal with things as they come, since he can't predict what could happen next.
It almost stopped me from getting SRS 'cause I was experiencing the problems with inflammation and pain inside. Luckily, it stopped a month before SRS and I was able to have it. I know that the SRS doc took some of it out to make room. I only sometimes get the pain now.
After my SRS I had major bladder problems. It was found that I had nothing to do with the surgery, but my own biology with the stuff down there (probably from the trama from it). I then started expericing nerve problems similar to MS. I don't have any leasions on my brain, and they still consider I could develop ms in the future (like my mom). So, I'm kinda stuck in limbo. After a while, and some bladder meds, I got better. I don't need the bladder meds now.
It was very annoying, 'cause doctors didn't know what to do or explain things. My doc tried to get me to see a urologist for possible surgery down there, but they all refused here 'cause they said they didn't know how to handle someone like me. It's hard to be left in limbo.
Being intersex isn't fun (for me at least). Sometimes it really bothers me, especially when it comes to health and doctors having no clue what to do with me and in some cases, won't even really help me 'cause they don't know what to do. I wouldn't wish someone else to be intersex - it's a ball of trouble. :( That's why I don't mention it very often, 'cause it full of painful memories and there have been many times I wish I wasn't intersex or had these health problems.
At the moment I'm doing fine. No problems at all. I'm glad for that. Very glad. I just hope it keeps up.
Quote from: Princess_Jasmine on March 22, 2010, 10:19:29 PM
I posted a topic about us having a monthly cycle in this thread:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,69765.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,69765.0.html)
It's true. My therapist who is very educated about our issues and hormone research has already informed me this is a symptom of us taking estrogen. We have a monthly cycle. That week when you are feeling cranky,depressed, and having horrid cramps is your "period" and your body apparently wont process as much estrogen. You might even notice a strong or fishy odor down there at this time of the month.
However, the time you are calm, relaxed, feeling like yourself again is when your body is processing estrogen correctly and the hormone level therefore reads higher. The estrogen levels continue to rise after your period ends until they reach their peak level. Once they reach their peak, they start to drop again and again until you start your period again.
This is just how a genetic female's body works when it comes to hormone usage. We are so lucky to have cycles but also cursed in a way with all its side effects of constant changing hormone levels, but its something I would put up with any day just to experience what a girl is supposed to go through :)
Female born people don't have cycles because their bodies refuse to process estrogen for a week out of every month. The ovum releases a burst of estrogen that peaks during ovulation and falls once the ovum reaches the end of its life.
If the refusal of the body to process estrogen were the cause, birth control pills would be useless. The body simply would continue with normal menstrual cycles.