The way people with testosterone (generally refered to as "men"...lol) have their emotions and emotional responses organized is weird to me. It's like...if you've always had your file cabnet organized on the left side of your desk...alphabetically....then suddenly you walked in to find that all your files are now on the right side of your desk and organized catigorically...it'd be rather...disabling somewhat. You could get used to it, and work with it...but it's odd.
So I've got all these thoughts and emotions and they're as deep as they've ever been...it's just that they've been kinda...moved on me. I want to do as I've always done and get it out, write it out, think about it and process but....I'm finding it not as easy to do. I can't tell you how many times I've opened a new page to write...looked at the page and decided it's really too much work; and then close the page.
People often remark that men are emotionally distant, or not as emotional at all as women and I can now see why. It's like...when estrogen fueled...the emotions are just a fountain of water which can be dipped into easily...where as...now that I'm T fueled...my emotions are more like a slow lava under a thick crust of earth. They're there, just as real, just as deep...but harder to access.
I decided to take a leap last night and ask that scary question. I thought I was ready for answers..... but I also thought I already knew the answer and was just seeking confirmation of what i already knew. That (as is often the case) isn't how that worked out for me. I asked if the face actually changes on T. Or if I'll still look the same; just hairier. Nope. The fat of the face and the musculature DOES change and shift over time....I will look different. How different? No one can know. I mean...duh. That's obvious though. How did I disallution myself?! If transwoman's face shifts and changes with the addition of E how on EARTH could it not work the other way around? I have no idea.
I feel like I'm in a....a bit of a no win situation. I really worry that I'll be just as sad appearing male and being treated male as I am now being treated female. (Remember I identify as a transitioning androgyn...but since I'm on T I find more understanding here...I hope) I had a little...freak out moment this morning...I imagined appearing FULLY male. Yet still being just as akward because I'm *not* fully male. Maybe it's just an internal thing. Maybe I *think* I've got far more female mannerisms than I actually do. It has alot to do with workplace. My skillset is decidedly female. Can I still work in the areas I've grown acustomed to? Will I be able to make any money doing...say...childcare or energy work or... stay at home "slumber party" style work? Will anyone take me seriously or roll their eyes because "a man couldn't possible know"...
Dosing is a definite consideration. I go in and see my doc for a chat on Wed and I plan on asking for shots (buh. Not really excited about the *shot* part of that...) which will give us a bit more choice in finding the right dosing. Also plan on getting my bloodwork again. To see just where the T levels are. Last we checked I was only doing half dose....and I've been feeling great on my current dose but I seem to be hitting a speed bump....started yesterday? Maybe Sat? Maybe last week? Hmm...been creeping up on me now that I think of it.
Well...hormone blood panel will give more info...
I think a big part of what I'm dealing with is...no male friends. Well..no friends at all...but I don't know how to act or behave or...process. I feel like a lost pubecent boy (gee...imagine that!) My dad sucks and I don't want to be anything like him...I was hoping I could find some local trans men but it seems the only group here locally is SUPER segragated and my wife isn't welcome in the transmen meetings which makes a big mess of things. (They've got it so the FtM meeting and MtF meeting are back to back. But segragated. So I couldn't drop her off somewhere that would be fun for her for an hour or something because she'd then miss the start of her meeting the way they've got it set up.)
I'm sorry to go all emo and ranty and...long..here. If you've read all this, seriously...thanks. Just feelin a little lost. So much time and energy was spent just getting to this point and starting T that...now that I've STARTED...I don't know what to do with myself!
Screw gender. That's all I have to say. I don't bother getting worked up over my gender cause of this...I just get upset when i don't appear masculine enough cause I want my outside to match my inside. Gender is fluid. Who cares if this person thinks you can't do this or that cause you're male or female. Fck them!
To Phx: I seriously don't think I could explain my situation better than you seem to have already explained it for me. The only added thing on my end is that I'm kind of fearing the loss of my lesbian identity.. >.> as weird as that may sound.
Anyway, I'm not really sure how I can give much advice on this, but are you (still?) going to therapy? I don't know your history of getting on T or anything like that so forgive me if I assume things incorrectly.. I completely understand what it's like to feel you're not being socialized into the more masculine gender correctly.. and I can really only imagine how much more confusing things must be becasue you identify as FtA. (Which is something I feel I may be leaning more toward... looks like it's time for more soul searching...)
One thing though, if the ftm/mtf meetings are decently regular, maybe you and your wife could compromise and go every other meeting.. like taking turns or something like that?
Unfortunately that's about all I can offer on the subject.
Good luck =]
Lex
Not being an androgyn or on T yet, I don't know 100% what you're going through. But the one thing that sticks out to me in your post is the lack of male friends. Guys don't learn to handle their hormonally-modulated emotions in a vacuum through soul-searching and self-analysis. I'm not sure anyone really does that with any degree of success, but if anyone does, it's not pubescent males.
I imagine that it might seem difficult to make male friends with a female body and a particularly feminine-assigned skill set. But there's no reason you couldn't develop a gender-neutral or masculine interest or two, maybe by volunteering somewhere. Fire departments, environmental work, meal delivery, and other less people-focused work tends to draw more gender diversity than things like child and elder care. Other options would be things like political campaigns. There's also queer activism, maybe leaning more to queer-male-led causes like DADT repeal and AIDS activism rather than (or in addition to) women-dominated issues.
Basically, getting out and doing something that means something to you would serve the dual purpose of diversifying your skill set and helping you meet new and different people. And if you're working together, that context really helps set the tone so you don't really have to think as much about how you're supposed to be acting.
Quote from: phx_rising on March 22, 2010, 05:07:00 PM
I can't tell you how many times I've opened a new page to write...looked at the page and decided it's really too much work; and then close the page.
I actually did this a lot pre-T because it was more of an issue with thinking people don't want to hear it.
Quote from: phx_rising on March 22, 2010, 05:07:00 PM
People often remark that men are emotionally distant, or not as emotional at all as women and I can now see why. It's like...when estrogen fueled...the emotions are just a fountain of water which can be dipped into easily...where as...now that I'm T fueled...my emotions are more like a slow lava under a thick crust of earth. They're there, just as real, just as deep...but harder to access.
I get what yer saying here. The T in your system makes emotions become different. Not a bad thing if you can let it flow and know that underneath the changing, you are still you.
Some of my friends (FTM) have had a horrible time emotionally with their transition. Whether that had to due with too much T, deeper mental health issues than I knew of, or not being at peace with the way things were changing, I don't know.
btw - having male friends helps and it sucks you don't have any at this time. But I reckon you will with your good attitude/personality. I don't know what I'd do without my male mates. They've been a blessing as sometimes all the deep emotional chattering girly talk can drive me quite 'round the bend. <--nothing again girls. I just have a bit of a hard time with a lot of talking at times. :)
Quote from: Lex on March 24, 2010, 12:24:21 AM
To Phx: I seriously don't think I could explain my situation better than you seem to have already explained it for me. The only added thing on my end is that I'm kind of fearing the loss of my lesbian identity.. >.> as weird as that may sound.
Actually, a lot of guys go through this. It can be quite traumatic, from what some of my friends and acquaintances tell me.
Hey thanks guys! :D
After ranting it out I felt much better. Knowing that others have felt similar things...also very helpful.
Some great ideas...getting out there and finding new friends. Totally. I think that'd help big time.
It looks like the local group is going to do "mixers" so that everyone can get together, which would suit my wife and I. Though I may just go to the FtM meetings. That'd be a big step for me as I've been very awkward my whole life and don't do well when not in front of the computer screen. I type far more eliquently than I speak!! Promise. lol. I'm awesome at sticking my foot in my mouth. Though now that all pretenses of trying to be "the girly girl" are gone...maybe I can step up, step out, and be comfortable. Can't know until I try..right?
Anyway...thanks guys. I really apreciate you listening and taking time to respond.
Being around other guys can help you learn alot about male behaviors. Since we were raised female and society told us so we won't know everything about male traits, mannerisms, etc. Even just watching guys is helpful.
I know that being male doesn't mean being a manly-man, but some mannerisms do scream female and will make it harder to pass (at least at first). It sucks that society as a whole is like that, but it is what it is.
Quote from: Radar on March 24, 2010, 07:47:48 PM
Since we were raised female and society told us so we won't know everything about male traits, mannerisms, etc.
In my experience, neither do a lot of cis guys, actually. They just absorb and internalize. In fact, that is probably what I have done because I don't seem to have the mannerisms and gestures that people tend to see as feminine. Now if I want people to interpret me as gay, I have to learn "fem" mannerisms. Sheesh. I don't think so.
I put it down to the company I have kept--cis guys. FTMs who spend or have spent much of their time in the lesbian world and/or among trans guys might want to think about branching out a little, if they're concerned about how they are coming across (as Radar suggests).
Yeah, that's more what I meant. You know- learning and absorbing by watching and imitating male role models. While we (transmen) can watch these things before coming out and transitioning society doesn't expect us to know them or imitate them. Sadly, society prefers the opposite.
Quote from: Radar on March 25, 2010, 04:04:27 PM
Yeah, that's more what I meant. You know- learning and absorbing by watching and imitating male role models.
Oops, sorry, misunderstood a bit. I think that most of us do it more consciously than cis guys do when they're growing up, though.
Quote from: Arch on March 26, 2010, 01:50:46 AMI think that most of us do it more consciously than cis guys do when they're growing up, though.
Hmm, interesting thought. I have to admit I've pick up habits and characteristics through life that I didn't even realise or know was male habits until coming here. I think we are more conscious and observe more so we can learn more, but I bet alot of us were picking up on it subconsciously while growing up too.
Quote from: Radar on March 26, 2010, 08:18:37 AM
Hmm, interesting thought. I have to admit I've pick up habits and characteristics through life that I didn't even realise or know was male habits until coming here. I think we are more conscious and observe more so we can learn more, but I bet alot of us were picking up on it subconsciously while growing up too.
Yes, I think that's true. But how many cis guys get together and spend an hour talking about how to get rid of their fem mannerisms or adopt male ones? In FTM circles, I see guys asking for and trying to implement lots of advice about controlling their hand motions, making their esses less sibilant, walking a certain way, not commenting on a beautiful sunset, etc. And certain aspects, such as the walk, tend to evolve very organically for cis boys because they have cis male anatomy. This doesn't seem to apply to the "swishy" boys, but it does seem to apply to the vast majority.
This sort of instructional arc is even more prominent among the trans women I know, and it is quite studied.
I was aware of some of this stuff when I was a kid, but I think that's only because I was hyperaware of gender, a consummate tomboy who didn't meet with the program. While I was occasionally instructed by my mother about how to be more ladylike (don't sit with your legs apart!!!), I didn't grow up sitting in a group of girls and discussing the topic and practicing being more girly.
Then again, I would have been out of there in fifteen seconds if I had encountered such a situation. ::)
Quote from: Arch on March 26, 2010, 11:10:49 AMWhile I was occasionally instructed by my mother about how to be more ladylike (don't sit with your legs apart!!!)
Yep, my family did that too. I actually had to study and watch women to learn how to be more feminine. Now I have to untrain myself... what's left that is. The irony.