I know a couple of transguys who say that they'd never want to go stealth.
I don't understand that at all, so:
If you could be stealth with no questions, would you? And why?
That is one giant if.
but if I could, I would.
Why share a shameful and painful past that gains you nothing you would rather not deal with.
Exactly, that's what I don't get. Why would anyone not want to be stealth?
No. I feel to be stealth I'd have to deny some of my past as I was brought up as a girl and went through some stuff while living as a girl. I'm not ashamed of my past. Though that being said I don't want to be the token ->-bleeped-<- or anything either. So for me it's about being open but not wearing a sign around my neck saying FTM HERE! :P
Osirus,
That is why I said it was one giant if, among other reasons that it wouldn't work.
True stealth is a pipe dream.
One can have a realative semblance of stealth but someone will always find out.
Online records insure it.
I am stealth, and although it makes life much easier, it sure makes you wonder how many friends you'd have if they knew the truth. I usually end up telling my very close friends because I need their support with it sometimes and it feels like I'm hiding something after a while.
I also wish my love interests already magically knew. It stresses me out so much to worry about when to tell them, and I feel so much more comfortable if I am pursuing someone who already knows.
I consider myself somewhat stealth (friends from before know, teachers/administers know, certain classmates know, rest of the class doesn't, nurses I do clinicals with don't, most people I know casually don't know).
Whether I continue to stay stealth after I'm legally male and have graduated and have a job, that will depend on where I live. If I stay in my home state, I'll most likely be out because of the lack of resources and networking here for GLBT folks. If I move, I will probably go stealth and identify as an trans ally.
Either way, I'll still be involved in the community and will not be "deep stealth." I plan on telling my partner(s) and possibly close friends.
The only way it could really happen is if the lower surgeries made something that looked and worked exactly like the real thing. At least in my mind.
I can't be stealth because being queer and trans are parts of me that I'm proud to be. I facilitate a trans youth group, I talk on panels, if you search my name, the third thing that comes up is an article about me being trans on gaynz! lol I go out to schools and help give talks on sexuality and gender identity to -students in the greater Auckland area
I'm out because we need visibility and I enjoy educating.
I certainly don't have any problem with those who are or plan to be stealth however :) I just can't do it. Too often I'd end up mentioning something that just sounds odd if I don't add, "oh, yeah I was born a girl" or something to that effect.
At my work no one knows about my past. I am completely stealth there, but only there. Since I transitioned at a later age it makes it very hard to change my past all the time. Some of the things I have done would not have happened if I did not have a past as a female. It can be draining at times trying to change things on the fly, but it is what it is. The older you are when you transition and the more of your past you have to change the harder it is.
My opinion.
Myles
I'm as stealth as I can be, and only out myself if necessary. Can I say for sure nobody will ever out me? No. Do I expect that no one can find out about me? No. Realistically I'm as stealth as I can be, but I, unlike Myles, am out at work, though not sure if all of the newbies know, so I've stopped talking about stuff there, and I'm out to family and friends who need to know. I have 'reintroduced' myself to people I don't wish to out myself to. I just pretend I don't know them and start over. Much easier, esp. if there was no connection there other than acquaintance.
Case in point: former client from when i had a business. She works at a local office that I go to infrequently. I ran into her there at the start of my transition (hair cut, androgynous clothing), but as time went on and I went very infrequently, she no longer recognizes me at all. If I had to speak to her (haven't had to, but she's glanced at me with zero recognition, and we used to be really chatty!) I'd not out myself. No point, really.
Jay
Hell yeah I'd go stealth.
I try to go as stealth as possible now. I out myself to medical professionals, and people that deal with my legal paperwork, but beyond that I keep quiet.
I do it because I don't want people to get the wrong ideas about me, not because I'm running from my past.
If people find out I'm trans, they're going to stop seeing me as a man. I'll become somehow less than a man, something different. That's not who or what I am.
I leave out some details of my past because it allows people to see me for who I am. For me, it's the most honest way I can conduct myself. I am happy being judged and held to the same standards as other men.
Though that said, I don't change my behaviour to facilitate being stealth. I am happiest being known as a slightly eccentric man :laugh:.
Yes. And no. I have a feeling some people only talk to me or like me cause I'm trans, and I'd like to see who those people are.
I'm stealth now, or try to be. Hard when you have to give your legal name at the doctor's office, and your gender marker isn't changed yet. So it usually fails when it comes to that. Plus some people still read me.
I intend on being fully stealth in the future, when I have my surgery, change my name and gender marker, and get on T. I will probably always have to deal with being not stealth where I perform at, but that's fine with me. It's a gay bar ffs.
"shameful" is the thing...
I don't think my past is "shameful".
I do not feel ashamed of how I was born.
I do not feel ashamed of the work I have to do in order to get from "F" to "M" legally and physically.
I actually take a small measure of pride in having the proverbial balls to be myself regardless of these things.
I do find it enjoyable though, when I pass without question.
^^See, I'm instantly ashamed when I have to admit my past. Cause that F....makes me want to seriously hurt myself. I'd rather erase it and start over.
But, why?
What makes it something to be ashamed of?
It's not like any one of us can choose what we're born with.
I'm not ashamed that I'm trans. But I personally don't like to be reminded that I was forced to live the first part of my life in the wrong body. And now that people finally see me as me, as male, I do NOT want them looking at me sideways thinking, hey, he USED TO BE A WOMAN!!
Bleh.
Jay
I know but...I still hate my body. I'm ashamed cause I'm so male in my personality that I can't stand my body in ways I can't even describe. I know we can't control it but I guess I have such a hatred for it that I can't possibly bring myself to be proud of it.
Teknoir just summed up my reasons for being stealth right there.
I also find that although I'm not ashamed of my past, thinking about it sucks. I accept my past, but it's something that I'd rather not be associated with anymore.
I have to agree with the "stealth never lasts" statement.
If even one person knows your past history, no matter how close to you they are right now, it will all eventually come to bear.
Kinda reminds me of the old saying, "Two people can keep a secret....... as long as one of them is dead."
I have lived totally stealth for the past 20 years with only my wife knowing my past. She knew from the very beginning about my transition as I had been living full time for over 10 years when we first met. Now that we are in the midst of a nasty divorce, she seems to decide to "tell all" to everyone with her, of course, being in the dark about it all the time. This makes her look like a big time victim and me being nothing short of pure evil.
Tell me, people, do you really think it possible to live with someone for almost 20 years and not know?
The earlier you transition, the better your chances of successfully living stealth at some point in your life. Especially if you didn't have to change your name. Sure, there's a danger that someone will figure it out. But that doesn't mean it will actually happen.
I think there might be confusion about what "stealth" means. I understand it to mean that you live as your true gender without divulging your trans status/past. The term therefore refers to an intention, a way of living, not a risk-free life in which no one knows or could possibly know about your past. In this usage, "stealth" refers to how YOU live, not whether other people can find out about you. Because someone pretty much always can, if he or she digs enough. Of course, if someone does find out and outs you, there's a problem.
I would be completely stealth if I could. I don't want people thinking that I'm not a real man or that I used to be a woman. Ugh. I didn't change my gender. That's always been male.
But to be truly stealth, I would have to cut off all of my old friends and all of my new trans friends. I would have to stop attending the few trans groups that I still attend. These are tacit admissions to my trans status. So I consider myself semi-stealth.
Quote from: TheCG on April 13, 2010, 03:50:52 PM
I have lived totally stealth for the past 20 years with only my wife knowing my past. She knew from the very beginning about my transition as I had been living full time for over 10 years when we first met. Now that we are in the midst of a nasty divorce, she seems to decide to "tell all" to everyone with her, of course, being in the dark about it all the time. This makes her look like a big time victim and me being nothing short of pure evil.
Tell me, people, do you really think it possible to live with someone for almost 20 years and not know?
It does seem hard to believe, but Billy Tipton might have pulled it off, for shorter periods of time, with some of his relationships. And he hadn't had surgery or, from what I understand, hormones. I've also read accounts of other relationships, mostly in the nineteenth century, in which the wife says that she didn't know.
Non-op and non-hormonal. Twenty years like that, in these enlightened and information-rich times? That would take a lot of doing and a lot of luck. It seems improbable.
Your circumstances are quite different; you're on T. But you wrote that you only started T a few years ago. Surely she would have noticed that you suddenly started changing...
However, you have to remember that transsexuals have a long history of being seen as deceptive. It's what lots of people automatically assume about us. Even the term "stealth" implies deception, doesn't it? And people tend to want to believe the first statement they hear about an event. If your wife is the one putting out the initial report about you, you have to work harder to change people's minds. And because you are trans, logic and evidence and reason (oh, my) won't necessarily be enough.
With that said, I get what you're saying about stealth, and I hope your life improves. I'm going through a non-nasty divorce, but it's not without its bumps. So I can only imagine what yours is like. Hang in there, CG.
I don't think its something I'll generally announce, but I certainly won't let it become a deep "dark" secret or anything. That seems stressful.
Quote from: GnomeKid on April 14, 2010, 01:19:32 AM
I don't think its something I'll generally announce, but I certainly won't let it become a deep "dark" secret or anything. That seems stressful.
Thats exactly how I feel about it too.
As above - I'm not going to go out of my way to tell people I'm trans but should it arise I am happy to discuss my past respectfully.. I'm not going to be telling people willy nilly on the street or those out for a bit of goss!
I truly like the fact that there is always going to be 'something' about me that makes me just that little bit different from cis males. I enjoyed my previous queer identity and I don't plan on losing the one I am currently developing anytime soon!
I like both the feminine and masculine parts of my personality - obviously to transition I enjoy the masculine parts more so! And I like to be treated as the man I have always felt like.. But I can also appreciate the past 25 odd years of being socialised and treated as female and what that has given me-sensitivity and other characteristics of my personality that I cherish..
To attempt to live completely stealth as someone put before would mean shutting out those values and traits, and shutting out old friends and some new ones I have now. I am not prepared to do this so as I said in the beginning - I'm not going to shout it from the rooftops, but when questioned I will not run from my past or deny the person I was - as unhappy and misunderstood as 'she' was and felt, it was still me on the inside...
Jay
Quote from: GnomeKid on April 14, 2010, 01:19:32 AM
I don't think its something I'll generally announce, but I certainly won't let it become a deep "dark" secret or anything. That seems stressful.
Exactly.
Not gonna shake hands with every person I meet and go "Hai, I'm Miniar, I was born with female genitalia." that would just be ridiculous.
It's essentially like someone shaking your hand and going "Hey, I'm Jack, I'm allergic to asparagus." when no asparagus is anywhere remotely within sight or reach.
But, if situations arise within which referring to my past is relevant, of course I will.
It's a part of my life. It's part of who I am and why I am who I am. It's not a secret. And it's nothing to be ashamed of.
I'm not gonna allow it to become something "bad" when all it is is just "something factual".
Quote from: Miniar on April 14, 2010, 09:06:03 AM
Exactly.
Not gonna shake hands with every person I meet and go "Hai, I'm Miniar, I was born with female genitalia." that would just be ridiculous.
It's essentially like someone shaking your hand and going "Hey, I'm Jack, I'm allergic to asparagus." when no asparagus is anywhere remotely within sight or reach.
But, if situations arise within which referring to my past is relevant, of course I will.
It's a part of my life. It's part of who I am and why I am who I am. It's not a secret. And it's nothing to be ashamed of.
I'm not gonna allow it to become something "bad" when all it is is just "something factual".
I'm not really remotely close to this being something that's an issue for me since I'm pre-transition, but I pretty much agree with this. I don't think I'll want to cut myself up from friends and people I know now, so I probably won't really be completely stealth in most groups, but I don't plan to go around announcing it to every new acquaintance.
The question was if you could go stealth with no questions. That no question part is what would lead me to say yes. If no one questioned my gender, I would go stealth.
I know that isn't possible which then changes the answer a bit. I don't want to be open to anyone, I just know I can't be total stealth. I fought to hard to be me, I don't want to be ostracized for being someone else. I feel that it is my life and private. I have felt that way about most things in my life, I see no reason to be different about this one. It just leads to trouble, at least it does here.
As to the shame thing, it is shame of having had to live in female roles and I still find the anger that came from that buried in my memory and eager to rise when I hear the comments of how I'm not a real man or such. I don't need the anger and depression that goes with it.
I may be dealing with that wrongly but for now it is how I feel.
Quote from: LordKAT on April 14, 2010, 10:05:26 AM
The question was if you could go stealth with no questions.
True. Easy to forget this little detail. ::)
Even without questions I'd rather stick to my previous answer.
Mostly for the sake of my own comfort with myself.
But, I think, also, in part, because it's something that'd help all of us.
Agreed. Even with no questions this is my identity.. This is me. I like who I am and who I am becoming. And acknowledging that past is part of my present. I am definitely not ashamed of who I am or was.
Wouldn't change a thing if it would mean existing as a different person today.
But I can appreciate that way of thinking is not for everyone. So for the OP my answer is no.
I dont advertise my trans past but I dont hide it either. if somebody asked (it hasnt happened yet) I'd tell 'em & everythin would be cool. 8) 8) 8)
at work everybody knows me as what I am, a dude. there's no need 4 them 2 know anythin else. I'm there 2 work, thats it. my trans past is none of their business.
some of my close friends know 'bout my trans past but to them I'm just another dude. no biggie. :D :D :D