I have met someone that I like...who likes me...and who I think generally doesn't consider gender in people she likes, just like I do.
We hung out the other day, and the subject of sex came up and I made it clear that I have to trust someone immensely to let them see my body, and have sex. She didn't seem bothered by that. But she's attracted to me, and I think she's pretty cool.
I don't want to dive into this just to screw things up cause of my attitude towards my body, and my dysphoria...
I worry that if we did get together, she'd be bothered by the fact that I can do without sex. Cause I'm very uncomfortable with acknowledging my own body, let alone letting someone else see it. What are your guy's experiences on this subject? Did you eventually give in and let your partner see your body, or do you just go without having sex, or did you end up having sex without taking off your underwear, or what?
As a grandparent I can tell you only that it isn't always a choice.
Beyond that, IDK.
Let's just say my sex drive trumped my dysphoria from approx. age 15-26. There were certain interactions I was always acutely uncomfortable with, but those weren't the sort most guys object to skipping.
Now that it's settled down, though, things are different and I relate to what you're saying.
Quote from: LordKAT on April 13, 2010, 11:24:19 AM
As a grandparent I can tell you only that it isn't always a choice.
Beyond that, IDK.
What isn't always a choice?
I totally understand. Its take me forever to get comfortable with someone seeing my body. I just take baby steps. Eventually once you are with someone long enough talking many months or years if they love you they wont care so it all comes out. I guess. It is rough and sometimes even though you are comfortable with that someone seeing your body certain days you wont let them because of how you feel that.
I have a boyfriend. We do 'things' we haven't had SEX SEX yet because im waiting for my birth control to set in. but in my experience, I was really nervous and uneasy about him seeing my downstairs junk. We started off slow, and I trust him. and now, I actually like him touching me there.. it feels good, I still do get a little dysphoric about it, like, I dont really want him to look at it, and I dont like my pants all the way down. Stuff like that. But, he helps me feel better by calling me 'boy' and that sort of thing, and i keep my binder on, and he always calls them my moobs.
id say its all about trust, sure you WILL get dysphoric, dude, I bet even buck angel gets dysphoric sometimes. but if you trust the person, after a while you just learn to use what you have.
I trusted my ex in my last relationship. But it's a different person, whole new game of gaining trust in them. Blah.
Well (I'm rather glad about this) my top half has been ignored at my request. As for the lower area. . . Sex drive > dysphoria in most cases. Although I haven't really had "real sex" yet so idk, I don't think I could really stand that.
If "real sex" is what I'm thinking you're meaning, I don't think I could stand it either.
I think people always get into strife with sexual relationships when they don't communicate. It is no different I think for us than any other person.
It is perfectly ok to discuss your needs and theirs. Just be honest, share your fears. Take it from there. The possibilities are endless. For example, you could be the one doing most of the pleasuring, and leave most of your clothing on. That way you sidestep the whole issue of your own body.
Please, Zombie, don't "give in" and do something that you are not comfortable with. That can really mess with your head. Establish the ground rules early on, with the understanding that the rules might change once you become more comfortable with her. If she thinks your boundaries are weird and gives you grief about it, do you really want to continue seeing her?
Arch, you summed up my thoughts. We're not even seeing eachother yet, but it's leaning wards that way. I'm going to stand my graound. I'm perfectly fine keeping my clothes on during sex. If she's not fine with that, she's obviously not meant for me.
Coming from the opposite side, meaning I'm cisgendered and my boyfriend is FTM, we have always had great sex, right babe ;) LoL
BUT once he came out to me as trans, and like we started talking more in depth I found that most importantly truly is communication. Like with him, he keeps his shirt on, I wish he wouldn't(BUT only meaning I wish he could let go of his dysphoria with me, and be comfortable, but i do understand that its not me, its HIS dysphoria and so if he is more comfortable with his shirt on then I'm fine with that) Another thing that helped is treating his downstairs in a different way, treating it as I would any other guy...Not that Ive ever been with a CISguy BUT I've watched porn lol..
So idk my input even if its not what you're looking for is just talk. Let your partner know what is good and what isnt. It really helped me knowing you know?
Last Comment, is "real sex" is whatever you find satisfying and pleasurable...there is no solid definition of "sex" not in my opinion at least :) hope this helped......
^thanks, it's good to hear from a ftm's partner :)
Welcome :)
I'll make a confession: I originally wrote a much longer and more revealing post about my sex life with my ex before and after coming out. StaceyBean touched on a few nerves in that respect.
Let me just say that before I came out, I could not be honest with myself. For the first ten or twelve years of our relationship, sex was usually good, and my dysphoria was less of a problem. Then for years our sex was infrequent and, for me, often traumatic. But I could not let myself admit it except briefly--and then I would cover it up with some excuse to explain it away.
Before: I liked to keep my shirt on, but I often took it off because he liked that.
After: I always kept my shirt on.
Before: When I gave him oral sex, I felt like a subordinate, a girl. I did it but usually didn't get much out of it. Or I got a lot of emotional discomfort out of it.
After: I felt like I was a guy going down on another guy. Bring it on!
Before: Sex in the front hole was often problematic. Sometimes I couldn't follow through. Sometimes I should have stopped because I felt like I was being raped. But I was the one forcing me. It was...well, for me it was worse than being date raped. At least when that happened, I could fight and plead, even if it did no good.
After: I reclaimed my front hole and called it my boy hole. This phase didn't last long, unfortunately, but it lasted for the duration of our sex life. Now I don't want anyone to use that orifice again. Ever. I might change my mind later (I won't be having bottom surgery anytime soon), but that's how I feel now.
Some of us find ways of coping. Some of the strategies don't last. Sometimes transition is the only cure.
Arch - a lot of what you said rings true to me, as I'm right now in that sort of "shifting gears" phase with my partner. What you said about the front hole is particularly familiar. The one place my experience is different is that I've always loved giving oral - it's the one act that's never been triggery in any way of anything (abuse, rape, dysphoria, none of those have involved my mouth). If only I could get over the jaw tiredness thing...
Quote from: kyril on April 14, 2010, 12:39:04 PM
If only I could get over the jaw tiredness thing...
Boy, I hear ya there. I've heard that there are strengthening exercises you can do...
Quote from: kyril on April 14, 2010, 12:39:04 PM
If only I could get over the jaw tiredness thing...
oh yea, mine does that too
You three rock. Seriously.
That is all.
- N
Ugh, this thread reminds me that I need a girlfriend... well not need but you know what I mean. I'm not excessively hornier being on T, but it's always running in the background even if I don't mentally want it.
I haven't really gone all the way yet. My dysphoria, however has gotten a lot better this year and I think I would have very little issue with having sex... providing that I trusted the person, but again like said earlier, you get the same issues in a cisgender relationship. Everyone has things they like and don't like in bed, and things that make them uncomfortable.
I honestly think it just goes back to communication. In a relationship, you obviously want someone you can trust and communicate easily with. I couldn't trust my ex for several reasons, a couple of them being that she didn't know what the word 'no' meant. You obviously don't want someone like that... I think very few people do.
There are people out there who understand our dysphorias. Or maybe not understand, but at least, can deal with it. Before T, I only did stuff to my gf and didn't let her touch me. It was hard for her but she understood and didn't make me feel bad about it. You just have to find the right people. Don't do something you aren't comfortable with just to keep someone.
Now tho, the tables have turned.. my gf has a hard time keeping up w/ my sex drive lol
When it comes to sex I'm okay with being with somebody nude so long as they are respectful when it comes to language, and does stuff like asking me "is it okay if I...." I've been with one person who I felt was overly sensitive. She was uncomfortable with me taking my clothes off in front of her, she refused to touch me, etc.
I don't feel like I've been with somebody that wasn't sensitive to the way my dysphoria works. I close my eyes a lot and imagine everything as if my body was more male.
Arch, I can relate to alot of what you said except I just can't be involved with men anymore. Can't stand the thought. It's not true to me and I now know I don't have to feel I have to do it anymore. But, your one simple statement says it all for me...
Quote from: Arch on April 14, 2010, 11:56:26 AMNow I don't want anyone to use that orifice again. Ever.
Hopefully not in a bad way arch!..I tried not to be too detailed either..just enough. lol
I had a relationship with a guy last year that lasted about a month or so. We had sex a few times (anal) and we were both completely undressed, though the lights were quite dimmed and it was under blankets. The problem was that apart from feeling a bit weird about things cause I'd never slept with anyone before, he didn't do anything that would get me off! He didn't know/try to stimulate 'my bits' and I just couldn't get up the nerve to say anything and rectify the issue (I didn't want to make him feel bad I guess lol).
I mean yes he was completely respectful and he was awesome about things but damn, I said clearly at the beginning that the only part I was uncomfortable about was vaginal penetration.
... ehh, was that helpful?
Quote from: StaceyBean on April 14, 2010, 08:58:52 PM
Hopefully not in a bad way arch!..I tried not to be too detailed either..just enough. lol
No, you just reminded me of the very lengthy post that I wrote and then shortened down to almost nothing...I'll admit it, I was a chicken.
I briefly thought that maybe I should not be too explicit because we weren't on the sexuality forum. But mostly I was just being craven.
Post Merge: April 15, 2010, 01:40:50 AM
Quote from: kestin on April 14, 2010, 10:12:40 PM
I mean yes he was completely respectful and he was awesome about things but damn, I said clearly at the beginning that the only part I was uncomfortable about was vaginal penetration.
Interesting...perhaps he was uncomfortable about your junk? I sure as hell would be if I were with an FTM. I guess I'm an extreme case, but the very thought of someone else's non-op FTM lower parts gives me the willies.
Ergh. No pun intended. ::)
Quote from: Arch on April 15, 2010, 01:37:01 AMI guess I'm an extreme case, but the very thought of someone else's non-op FTM lower parts gives me the willies.
LOL! Right there with you. It's icky enough when it's attached to me.
But then, I'd know that from the beginning and I wouldn't put a guy through that.
It entirely depends on the person and your comfort with them. I think relationships that start prior to or during transition have a different dichotomy than ones that start after, too. My ex, I really don't mind using my parts. With newer people... I don't even know, really. Honestly, I've sort of avoided that topic with recent partners because they don't know what to do with it, I don't know what to do with it, and talking about it sort of ruins the mood. Nothing seems to excite me anyway. All I get out of physical contact lately the pleasant tactile sensation of being caressed or massaged. No sexual arousal.
The last girl I was with was sort of FTM. He, she, argh I hate dealing with pronouns regarding that person. He goes by a male name and asks for it to be used most of the time, but switches between girl and boy pretty often and has admitted to other people I know that he's afraid of surgery and drugs. When we went to bed, he kept his boxers on but didn't seem to mind the top stuff.
Of course, he wouldn't communicate to me what he liked and I couldn't find it, and he didn't want to bother with the stuff I enjoy. After he didn't have much success with me either, he said, "God, you're such a girl. Girls are complicated. I'm lazy." And bitched that I was way more of a woman than the other MTFs he knows.
I asked him what he expected, because I told him about my complications. And I asked if he'd ever had much success touching a woman before >:-) He's pretty much a gay dude as far as we can tell. And 18. God, teenagers are just not worth sleeping with.
Oh god I just realized I had an awkward trans on trans encounter.
But versus say, my ex, who is the only person I'm actually sexually attracted to (and believe me, I've been trying since we broke up), which is probably because we started back prior to my transition, where I am comfortable with my body with her. She spent so much time, sometimes literally holding my hand while I learned to be more comfortable with myself and to just enjoy what was going on.
I personally don't enjoy receiving oral (except from her), but I do love physical contact. Skin to skin, body to body, where you just sort of meld together, and you don't think about who has what parts - that's why I've been able to enjoy sex well enough. Though I still can't shake the 'duty' and 'obligation' feelings when I'm on top of a girl, because the whole 'will you satisfy her enough before you finish?' thing is a big stress for me, even though it's usually never a problem.
I think the real problem I've discovered is that I need a real connection to a person to be satisfied, and that isn't something that really comes along that often. So I'm trying desperately to find something that hits and sticks, but ultimately, I'm just flittering through casual experiences that are teaching me the things I'm ambivalent about.
I may also have just reached the point where I just can't focus on sex prior to SRS.
You guys with the jaw tiredness talk...that was priceless :laugh:
Now do you guys, who are trans, (and girls, since there's some mtfs in this thread) feel the need to be the one in control when it comes to sex? Or can you be submissive and be comfortable with it? Or do you need to be in control incase they try to do something you're not comfortable. IE: I'm a top. I can't be submissive unless I REALLY trust someone enough to know that they're so intune with what I will tolerate as far as being touched...and that's not really likely. So, yeah.
Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on April 15, 2010, 11:23:57 AM
You guys with the jaw tiredness talk...that was priceless :laugh:
Now do you guys, who are trans, (and girls, since there's some mtfs in this thread) feel the need to be the one in control when it comes to sex? Or can you be submissive and be comfortable with it? Or do you need to be in control incase they try to do something you're not comfortable. IE: I'm a top. I can't be submissive unless I REALLY trust someone enough to know that they're so intune with what I will tolerate as far as being touched...and that's not really likely. So, yeah.
I am submissive.. I like being dominated.. but, I am also slightly sadist, masochist. But, I do like being in control, but it feels silly that way at times because my SO is much stronger and larger then me.
Quote from: kyril on April 15, 2010, 03:01:03 AM
But then, I'd know that from the beginning and I wouldn't put a guy through that.
But you wouldn't necessarily know about him from the beginning! I think if I ever get interested in someone and I start leaning toward sex, I'll want to tell him up front that I have certain hang-ups and can't be with a non-op FTM...another non-op FTM, that is; I would have to come out to him at the same time, if he hadn't guessed before.
Maybe with time and therapy I can get over this aversion. It would certainly open up my dating pool considerably.
Zombie, I have to have enough control to make sure that nothing bad happens to me, but I don't need to control the whole shebang. I like to be aggressive at times, but not dominant. Sometimes I like to be dominated, but often I like to feel like an equal partner in the control aspect of things.
I guess I'm a semi-aggressive, semi-submissive bottom.
Quote from: Radar on April 14, 2010, 07:21:29 PM
Arch, I can relate to alot of what you said except I just can't be involved with men anymore. Can't stand the thought. It's not true to me and I now know I don't have to feel I have to do it anymore. But, your one simple statement says it all for me...
Quote from: Arch on April 14, 2010, 11:56:26 AM
Now I don't want anyone to use that orifice again. Ever.
I'm exactly the same. In fact that was one of the big clues I somehow missed during my late teens/early twenties. I just thought that's how it was, never thinking that maybe there was a good reason I could never relax during sex with a man, even though I still liked him in other ways.
Right now I don't have a relationship, and now is certainly the worst time to think about that. I'm not really gonna be much help here though; after the fun I've had so far, I'm waiting 'til marriage for the next time - by then I'll have a surgically constructed dick :P
Quote from: Arch on April 15, 2010, 01:37:01 AM
Interesting...perhaps he was uncomfortable about your junk? I sure as hell would be if I were with an FTM. I guess I'm an extreme case, but the very thought of someone else's non-op FTM lower parts gives me the willies.
Ergh. No pun intended. ::)
lol, well to explain further, before we went out, he said at the begining he identified as bisexual so that's why I was confused he didn't go 'anywhere'