my questions are: how does it become noticeable that you are androgyne. why do you say that you are androgyne? what makes you feel "different"? is it because you don't drink beer as a man or you don't like make up as a woman? is it because you don't like football as a man or you don't like romantic movies as a woman? i know that these questions are excessive, but i'm really wondering what it is that makes us feel androgyne.
and please don't say that you are both female and male or neither female nor male, because thats only the definition of androgyne ;D i want to how you realize that your both or neither in your every day life
If I had to put my finger on it, it'd be the long-lasting-ever-spiralling spiral of confusion. I don't 'get' women and their womanly things and I don't 'get' men and their manly things, and whenever I try to fit one or the other I never seem to get it right and don't know how to get it right.
Hence, everything I do; the way I feel, hobbies, the way I act, I have to provide a '(that's just) me' tag for rather than 'woman' or 'man' tag.
Every now and then I am seen as one of the girls or as one of the boys, but on a personal level I never feel as one of.
In some ways I am kind of the opposite of No_iD - which is why I have coined myself the label GGG (gender gifted girl) to describe myself.
In my case I absolutely identify as female - but now that I am comfortable with my own body I find that I also "get" the male stuff as well. Which is kind of odd because I never did when I was... :laugh:
So with me it's not a case of not fitting in with the girls - I can do that just fine, it's that there is more of me, and I can also hang with the boys just as easily. In a sense I can feel like one of either, according to whom I'm with. Being just one is too restrictive.
But to answer the question of how I realised, that happened when I started coming to this site and realised that I didn't "get" some of the very gender polarised attitudes that many MtF and FtM people seem to have... For example the male and female privileges lost and gained threads... I know they are all in fun - but the vehemence with which some people disect those threads really shocked me.
I suppose it's natural that if you are having to fight for your right to be a certain gender you may tend to also try to become an ultra version of it... but then I never really had to fight - so inevitably I have ended up somewhat more fluid and relaxed about it all.
Am I an Androgyne? I don't know... but I guess I feel that as I have a lot of symapthy with the attitudes of the folks in this area of the site, so even if being a GGG is a slight varient on the theme, I guess it must fall within the broad and inclusive Androgyne definition.
plus we like the company
Everything Noid side is echoed over here,
Especially the bit that what I do is what I do and to many it doesn't seem to have a great deal of coherence...the journey I have been taking as an androgyne is to discover that coherence and feel like an integrated, authentic person - to be more vigilant about my own integrity and wholeness as a person.
Noid described it as a "long-lasting-ever-spiralling spiral of confusion and I discovered myself to be an androgyne by riding that spiral.
After a life of feeling somehow 'off kilter' and definite non-masculine traits (amongst some definite masculine traits) I went through a period of extensive bereavement. The grief, combined with some other factors of failure combined with this shakey sense of self and ripped it apart.
I decided that the problem was that I really wanted to be a woman and set off on the MtF journey - didn't take long to realise that it was not right and that I felt wrong as both - discovering the concept of androgyne allowed me to realise this isn't a completely unknown or alien thing and allowed me to rebuild myself again - and this time, much stronger.
So for me it was something bubbling away at the background, but it took a crisis to properly get to the bottom of it and I feel that I have personally come a very long way.
I do sometimes get frustrated by my male body - I would wish to be dainty and pretty and cute - but I am not and that is probably a frustration that many women have. If I were in a pretty and dainty female body I would probably feel frustrated in not being seen as an able and physical presence.
Quote from: Pica Pica on April 21, 2010, 02:00:12 PM
If I were in a pretty and dainty female body I would probably feel frustrated in not being seen as an able and physical presence.
LOL - I think the last person to call me pretty dainty and cute probably lived just long enough to regret it! ;)
By the sound of it I'm physically a well and truly feminised version of you - being female decidedly curvy, wide hips, big bust, but still being an able and physical presence works fine for me though :laugh: I just love exploding the apparent contradiction involved. :D
But more seriously it is all about being comfortable with oneself - so Im glad we both found our niche here.
I can relate a lot to Jenny, as I am most definitely a transsexual but with a more androgynous personality. I think my androgyny is probably due to upbringing and being 'allowed' a broader scope of interests and expressions than a cismale is usually afforded. Of course there are transguys who completely rejected all that and are not at all androgynous. But I was just free to develop along lines I might naturally would have where most cismen don't get that option. I simply never learned I wasn't supposed to express certain parts of myself.
I knew from a young age that I was different while everyone else was either a boy or girl I was not enough of either to have friends who were I tried youth groups and while I had friends I was different to them
while I couldn't relate on some things I could on others but I was always different. I've Known it my entire life what was different I couldn't explain like a splinter in my mind (can anyone pick the movie I'm almost quoteing) after a while I decided to search for answers so Down the Rabbit hole I went and found some Labels including androgyne I'm unsure just how deep the rabbit hole goes or if I'll ever know.
Perhaps looking at the "What makes it tic" thread would be enlightening. That's more or less the same idea as here.
I don't really have a deep connection with the "masculine" world or the "feminine" world. But then, there aren't many people I know in Real Life that do. Most of the people I know transcend their assigned roles to some degree. I go farther than a great deal of other people, and one particular thing I do stands out significantly more than others, but I still feel I am a man. The transcendence associated with androgyny (not necessarily "inversion") is not something limited to a small group of people, although degree/extent varies considerably.
To be an androgyne, that seems to go more to the idea that one's gender (not simply expression) does not fit in the female/male binary. It can be tricky trying to separate one's expression (masculine/feminine/androgynous/other) from one's gender (male/female/androgyne/other), and you probably can't "force" out an easy answer.
That's (part of) my understanding of who is an androgyne. Unfortunately, I can only relate it with much detail to the idea of androgyny, which is both almost the same and totally different (if that makes any sense).
I've been thinking about this a fair bit lately, and while I'm not an androgyne in that i identify as female...I have been living my life between genders for a very long time, or as I told my counsellor, living my life while suspended in limbo. never really felt like a man, couldn't quite manage to be the girl I know I am. I'm going to stick with jenny's term of GGG as I think it fits me. hehe ;D
Quote from: Nero on April 21, 2010, 04:15:16 PM
I can relate a lot to Jenny, as I am most definitely a transsexual but with a more androgynous personality.
I can relate to this. I identify female and want to fix my body to match that but I'm happy mixing with any crowd. Growing up with my sister probably has alot to do with this as we shared toys and played together all the time, she remains my best friend to this day.
androgyne for me is flexibility to express who I see myself as without the parameters of a gender label. I drift into the ts universe occasionally and feel more feminine than masculine sort of an androgyne amalgamation. Kind of like a deal I made with myself.
For me, it was years and years of feeling different, and noticing that i didn't fit in well with men OR women.
Then, the interweb thingy was invented.
I took one of those gender tests that everyone makes fun of here :D and it told me that i had a female way of thinking.
The more i thought about this, the more it made sense, and explained a lot of my childhood. A lot.
So I was able to label, to some degree, what it was that made me different.
More searching turned up susans. I lurked for a very long time, and finally joined.
I'm a freak (according to "normal" society) I like male and female things. I'm perfectly comfortable in heels and a skirt as i am in a business suit. Putting on makeup has a certain appeal. But then again so does swinging a chainsaw.
I'm just me :)
Ditto Bombi. I've always been comfortable and happy floating between the genders but at the same time have never felt that I belong or need to belong to either one. :)
Well I will self-describe as pretty androgynous, neither excessively masculine nor excessively feminine. Doesn't make me feel real special at all, I just can't really pick one side or the other. They seem a little extreme. I have a certain contempt for male and female stupidity, and these things show in the most socially sexually dimorphic. So instead of always rejecting one side, I will stay open.
Although when it does happen that everyone picks a side or is required to or whatever, I feel a bit left out since I'm not really part of either group.
;D "I'm neither one thing nor the other particularly ... ;D (Edward Gorey, writer and illustrator)
...and that is sometimes how I feel...I believe that I am "Morphed" somewhere in the middle... blending both masculine and feminine qualities...being neither one thing or the other...my biological host is that of a female but when I (me) look in tha mirror I see a male figure intwined with the fe...I don't see one host but two...and I am very comfortable with being me...I am not really "fem" so-to-speak...my demeanor, style and displayed appearance is more like a male Yaoi manga character...I feel as though sometimes that I am a "real" gay-male trapped inside of a fe-male host and all I want to do is mind-meld with the two...so I can become the Androgenistic, Asexual fuctioning creature I was born to be...!!! ;D
I can relate to some of this because while I definately see myself as male, I'm not Hyper masuline, Nor hyper-Fem and there are some un-masculine characterisitics that I don't want to have to give up, while I deperately want others.
Pica touched on something when mentioning about wanting to be pretty and cute and small, but loosing presence. Prior to my social transistion I hated being over looked and overtly protected. Like a china doll you keep in cabinet to preserve but otherwise ignore it. I didn't have a presence.
Now, I do in fact I get so many stares when I go places now I feel as if I've suddenly become visable to the world by becoming more of who I want to be. I'm ok with having aspects of me that are concidered Female, so long as I'm still seen as a man. Does that make sense? It does in my head...lol
We're androgyne, everyone else is just something less.
Quote from: tekla on May 01, 2010, 07:44:31 PM
We're androgyne, everyone else is just something less.
Unless your not androgyne....
" I'm ok with having aspects of me that are considered Female, so long as I'm still seen as a man. Does that make sense? It does in my head...lol" "GothTranzboi "
"GothBoi" I totally get what you are saying [really I do]...I don't do "Self-Ostraciz[ation]" <-new word of tha' day :o
My outer shell [clothing aspects], reflects who I am und tha' way I want to be presented...while me shell [biological aspect], determines the nature of my birth-sex, however, my inner shell [the mind/pysche aspect], is the most important one [to me], because it determines who I am both mentally und outwardly...und I am in full control of all three: my mental, physical und bio-sex status, thus allowing me to socially harmonize with the rest of tha' world that surrounds me... ;D
I think we (humans) are all a composite of male and female. Sadly for TG people whether androgynous or male or female identifying, the lines are more blurred. We meet stereotypical males and females and think that's what I am. But they aren't; they have a mass of conflict as well, just of a different type. We sit on the normal curve of human gender and sexuality. If the data are not biased the majority of people will fit around the mean. We don't. We fit at a place higher or lower than the mean (statistically, not socially etc). We are normal but not as normal as the normal normals ::).
So what is an androgyne? A normal person.
Cindy
It's not a normal curve, it's a bimodal distribution :)
Whether normal, bimodal, uniform, or otherwise, we probably need more research to really know... not like it should matter, but it would be "interesting."
Quote from: LaPapito on May 02, 2010, 01:33:13 AM
" I'm ok with having aspects of me that are considered Female, so long as I'm still seen as a man. Does that make sense? It does in my head...lol" "GothTranzboi "
"GothBoi" I totally get what you are saying [really I do]...I don't do "Self-Ostraciz[ation]" <-new word of tha' day :o
My outer shell [clothing aspects], reflects who I am und tha' way I want to be presented...while me shell [biological aspect], determines the nature of my birth-sex, however, my inner shell [the mind/pysche aspect], is the most important one [to me], because it determines who I am both mentally und outwardly...und I am in full control of all three: my mental, physical und bio-sex status, thus allowing me to socially harmonize with the rest of tha' world that surrounds me... ;D
Well said! lol we are very complex...far more so then someone who doesn't question something so fundimental...I think.
Quote from: kyril on May 02, 2010, 07:29:42 AM
It's not a normal curve, it's a bimodal distribution :)
In sexuality or chest geography? :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: CindyJames on May 04, 2010, 04:46:16 AM
In sexuality or chest geography? :laugh: :laugh:
Androgynes clearly have a better sense of humour! :laugh:
Quote from: rejennyrated on May 04, 2010, 05:04:09 AM
Androgynes clearly have a better sense of humour! :laugh:
An androgyne, a transman and a transwoman were hiking through the Wilds of Scotland. (to cut a long story short) Mad Turk Odennal the fiercest and most evil warrior of the Clann leapt forward. ArHHH My beauties. This seven two inch of evil muscle exploded. I've got a girl that looks like a man, a man and one that I cannot decide. I'm going to have you ALL. Who first he salivates, Pretty pretty, as he strokes Cindy's hair. I'm not sure about you, you look evil. As he looks into Lord Kats Dark eyes he sees the determination of Satan himself, to protect his friends. The androgyne fights back, strength and honour, you'll never have me and I'll kill you if you try .
Cindy pouts. You want a blow or just F around all day. The monster walks in;Cindy parts her glistening ruby lips, the brave androgene slips the knife to Cindy. Cindy thinks to herself, thank you friends. People I can trust. The monster starts pushing an impossible swallow. The androgene just walks in and cut oit off from the base. Ah Cindy, Lord Kat and the androgyne decide to have a week end on the beach and the competioption is too see who can rub the decide
Quote from: CindyJames on May 04, 2010, 06:16:00 AM
An androgyne, a transman and a transwoman were hiking through the Wilds of Scotland. (to cut a long story short) Mad Turk Odennal the fiercest and most evil warrior of the Clann leapt forward. ArHHH My beauties. This seven two inch of evil muscle exploded. I've got a girl that looks like a man, a man and one that I cannot decide. I'm going to have you ALL. Who first he salivates, Pretty pretty, as he strokes Cindy's hair. I'm not sure about you, you look evil. As he looks into Lord Kats Dark eyes he sees the determination of Satan himself, to protect his friends. The androgyne fights back, strength and honour, you'll never have me and I'll kill you if you try .
Cindy pouts. You want a blow or just F around all day. The monster walks in;Cindy parts her glistening ruby lips, the brave androgene slips the knife to Cindy. Cindy thinks to herself, thank you friends. People I can trust. The monster starts pushing an impossible swallow. The androgene just walks in and cut oit off from the base. Ah Cindy, Lord Kat and the androgyne decide to have a week end on the beach and the competioption is too see who can rub the decide
Makes a face like a confused guppy
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 04, 2010, 01:14:32 PM
Makes a face like a confused guppy
Cindy parties hard! :D
??? ;) ::) :angel:
Quote from: Pica Pica on May 04, 2010, 01:14:32 PM
Makes a face like a confused guppy
I'm with you Pica... I figured the story people were probably on a quest for special mushrooms..
Ooops
Word processor - Susan connection failed badly. And I didn't keep my word version. Just goes to show, don't trust technology :laugh:
Well it was funny when I wrote it. Just got lost in translation.
::) ::)
Sorry :embarrassed:
Cindy
Quote from: CindyJames on May 05, 2010, 04:09:56 AM
Ooops
Word processor - Susan connection failed badly. And I didn't keep my word version. Just goes to show, don't trust technology :laugh:
Well it was funny when I wrote it. Just got lost in translation.
::) ::)
Sorry :embarrassed:
Cindy
Awww no worries Cindy. I'm sure no one figured it was the story, like me they probably thought: "Wow, I really don't understand women..."... ;) :-*
I didn't want to tell anyone but I've been on HRT for 29 days and I feel just a bit odd.
Is that normal?
Just feeling a little bit like I have never felt before.
I had a rant at work over something silly as well, forgot what I was doing ::)
Sorry
Cindy
Quote from: CindyJames on May 05, 2010, 04:49:43 AM
I didn't want to tell anyone but I've been on HRT for 29 days and I feel just a bit odd.
Is that normal?
Just feeling a little bit like I have never felt before.
I had a rant at work over something silly as well, forgot what I was doing ::)
Sorry
Cindy
In a word yes. It's called being hormonal - and it's perfectly normal though it will probably settle down after a while.
For a while you will go back to being an emotional adolecent - which is scary enough when you do it in your early twenties - I can't even imagine how weird it must be going through it in even later life.
... and congratulations.
Quote from: CindyJames on May 05, 2010, 04:49:43 AMI've been on HRT for 29 days...feeling a little bit like I have never felt before. I had a rant at work over something silly as well, forgot what I was doing
I have not experienced any significant emotional/psychological changes but what you are describing seems to be the norm. Actually, my wife says I am less prone to emotional swings than I was before I started HRT. I've been on transition level regimen of estrogen and spiro for 4 months.