I am new to these forums but I'm glad that I've found them. This is the first time that I have had the opportunity to see into the world of FTM and would like to ask a question.
As a male growing breasts, the allure seems to grow by the day, any change or feeling is welcome as it feels good or it hurts some, which is ok because I associate the pain with growth. I am a straight, married male that wants breasts for my own reasons. I have no plans to transition, I will remain in male mode, with breasts of course.
My question is long I suppose...Although I can understand partially why you would want to have your breasts removed as they soundly identify you as a female, what other reasons are there for wanting them removed? Are they a burden? Do they hurt? Are you ashamed of them?
These are just curiosities from a man growing breasts. Strange is the gap between MTF and FTM. We want'em and don't hav'em, you hav'em and don't want'em lol.
I'll start off with asking you to please respect the gender identity of the men here.
https://www.susans.org/wiki/Male_chest_reconstruction (https://www.susans.org/wiki/Male_chest_reconstruction)
removal of the lipid and (part of) breast tissue is part of the process to change the body to match identity and body image. it has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with being more happy with (their) body.
This is really rude man. But heres a few issues for you mkay? Seriously.....I think they are ugly looking. They remind me of fatty tummors. Mine are a large D and get in the way. They are heavy and hurt if not supported by binding...I have stretch marks. I get bruises and they sweat underneath...I can't play sports/work out/run unless I'm bound. And they are painful if you have large ones just hanging all day. Ugh...I could go on but I think you get the picture. If mine we a small B and not so prone to pain, cysts, and gravity, I'd have an easier time binding and coping.
Have a nice day....not.
I mean absolutely no disrespect of any kind. My question is directed to the physical aspect of having breasts. If this question offends anyone, then I apologize.
They are heavy. They hurt my back. They make me slouch. The constant pull of this weight makes the skin over my collarbones/sternum ache. They prevent me from sleeping on my stomach (they are in the way) or on my back (uncomfortable wobbling/weight). Even sleeping on my side, they can be intrusive by pushing flesh up towards my throat, making me feel lightly choked, causing me to snore. They prevent me from wearing many types of clothing that I would like to wear. They prevent me from running or doing jumping jacks. They invite unwelcome attention. They get objectified. They get me judged in unflattering ways. They make people act like idiots. They provide no pleasure to me as there is little to no sensation in them. The only "benefit" they provide is that some other people, ones I am not interested in romantically, might like to look at them; why would I keep them for such a stupid reason?
And none of that even enters into the body dysphoria.
They will be removed and thrown into the garbage where they belong.
Thanks for your reply. Once again, I mean no disrespect. I'm headed to a place where you guys have been and it's a little scary for me. So if i can learn from someone that has been there, more the better. Asking a MTF about having breasts is like asking a freshman "how was college?" I get a lot of "if's & maybes".
I don't plan on growing past a B cup. Ideally a small B is all I want.
With all respect, I am here to learn, nothing more.
I look in the mirror and wonder what is up with the image, that is not me. The image has two large growths, not the me i see in my mind. I reach down in the early morning hours and wonder where it is. What happened? Then I come fully awake and remember, someone forgot that part from the very beginning. This body I see in the mirror is not me, it is a caricature of what I would look like if I were a girl. I need it to look as my mind sees it.
I hope that gives you some idea.
I'm ashamed of them. They're ugly to me, on me. Breasts are for females. I'm not one. That's why I call them chesticles, and refuse to even acknowledge that I have anything but normal plumbing. By denying it most of the time it makes it easier. I'm not delusional, I know what my body looks like, but it's easier to ignore it. Makes dysphoria less.
I will note, I think breasts can be lovely on other people.
I'm just actively hostile at the idea of having such things on myself. For me, it's an unwelcome deformity, one that ruined my life. This is why I'm overjoyed at the idea of having the deformity FIXED.
Quote from: LordKAT on May 05, 2010, 02:36:21 PM
I look in the mirror and wonder what is up with the image, that is not me. The image has two large growths, not the me i see in my mind. I reach down in the early morning hours and wonder where it is. What happened? Then I come fully awake and remember, someone forgot that part from the very beginning. This body I see in the mirror is not me, it is a caricature of what I would look like if I were a girl. I need it to look as my mind sees it.
Kat, Extremely well said (although backwards for me). Very elegant.
Thanks again for the input. If you were to have some advice for a man growing breasts, what would it be? (Besides don't do it lol)
Quote from: Jasmine.m on May 05, 2010, 02:58:12 PM
Kat, Extremely well said (although backwards for me). Very elegant.
Thank you.
Quote from: Breastquest on May 05, 2010, 03:00:05 PM
Thanks again for the input. If you were to have some advice for a man growing breasts, what would it be? (Besides don't do it lol)
Survive the consequences without complaint.
Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on May 05, 2010, 02:44:11 PM
That's why I call them chesticles.
Woah that's what I call them.
@ breastquest. Sorry I was snippy, but I absoulutely hate them. If I could hack em off right now and dump em I would. I'd be 4lbs lighter. Best way to loose weight ever.
Tits are great. I freaking love tits. Just not on me.
Original poster; Surely if you're MTF you can understand how we feel about our chests?
Not MTF only getting breasts.
Quote from: LordKAT on May 05, 2010, 03:04:41 PM
Survive the consequences without complaint.
Short sweet and perfectly to the point.
Post Merge: May 05, 2010, 03:58:55 PM
Also if you are looking for some fonder attitudes toward having breasts and supporting this...body part you want, you wont find much of that here unless its us admiring them on women. We are not really all that pleased with them, not to be mean but, you are a guy that has the chest I would love to have been born with, as would others here. It's kinda mind blowing, but your reasons are your own, you have a right to your body. whatever makes you happy dude.
Quote from: LordKAT on May 05, 2010, 03:52:25 PM
Not MTF only getting breasts.
Ah yes, apologies. I skim read the post earlier.
That's fair enough then, I don't think a cis-gendered person could possibly understand what it is to be in the wrong body.
(1) they're fat
(2) they bounce when I play sports
(3) the nipples are ridiculously painfully hypersensitive
(4) they prevent me from just throwing on a shirt and leaving the house (even when I didn't bind, I still had to wear a bra)
(5) they distort my t-shirts and make them hang wrong
(6) the fitted clothes I like aren't cut to accommodate them
(7) they get in the way (of throwing a baseball, crossing my arms, rolling over in bed)
(8) they hide my pecs
(9) the people who I want to find me sexually attractive are turned off by them
(10) I'm turned off by them
The fact that I only want breasts shouldn't be an issue, just having female breasts is enough to be outted as a MTF. I enjoy some of the other effects of my routine, higher waistline, softer skin etc. Just because I seek something that you despise doesn't make me wrong. The sensitivity that you dislike has improved my sex life ten fold. I also enjoy the lack of testosterone induced anger that dominated most of my younger years. Both genders have qualities that I'm sure we take for granted, but we will never be convinced of that by anyone, so we quest for the best of both worlds.
So...flame me if you must because I choose not to fully transition, but it's my choice, my life....
I come here for advice to aid me in my quest, not to judge or be judged.
I'm not sure why you would expect a lot of "positive" response in a Female to Male room. Breasts are one part most want to get rid of, as men don't have large breasts.
As someone who has transitioned, I love my breasts, but then I'm a woman.
Sarah L.
Quote from: Breastquest on May 05, 2010, 04:38:46 PMI also enjoy the lack of testosterone induced anger that dominated most of my younger years.
Which is funny because on T I've gotten less angry. Honestly, having been on both hormones(female puberty and now male puberty), the only real difference I could think of is how you experience it, but it doesn't seem to be more or less... unless you had excess testosterone for a male body. It's generally a myth.
Chances are you were just being a teenager.
I just said...whatever makes you happy. I'm not annoyed that you have chosen to do what you want. Again as I said previously it is your right. I don't care what you do with your life as it is not mine, and I nor anyone else has the right to tell you what to do.
I have no sensitivity in my chest. So I can't really relate to you there. But you also have to respect that it is difficult for us to be positive about. Furthermore, you asked our opinions on something we have lived with. You have not. Just because you don't like what we have to say doesn't make it any less true.
I don't think anyone is really flaming anyway.
I just think that perhaps coming to a forum of people who are tortured in the wrong body to say that you actually want part of that is something that we cannot relate to.
Quote from: Ryan on May 05, 2010, 04:45:22 PM
I don't think anyone is really flaming anyway.
I just think that perhaps coming to a forum of people who are tortured in the wrong body to say that you actually want part of that is something that we cannot relate to.
Agreed.
I have fibrous breasts. This means that, particularly before I was on T, they hurt about 50% of the time, whether or not they were being touched. Now that I'm on T and have been binding for about four years, they're broken down to the point that most of the pain is gone. Now I can't wait to rid myself of what's left. They started growing when I was 8, and were a constant source of trouble from then on.
Still, I'll reiterate what others have said: I'm a man. Men don't have breasts. I dig breasts on my girlfriend... but she's supposed to have them.
SD
We're not flaming you. You asked about our experience. We answered. We (all of us, uniformly) hate the things.
I didn't come here for a positive response. I came here because this is where I knew I could find the highest concentration of people with breasts that they don't like or even hate. Hearing what you guys have to say means a lot, it may help me with my decision to continue on my path.
Quote from: Breastquest on May 05, 2010, 04:38:46 PM
The fact that I only want breasts shouldn't be an issue, just having female breasts is enough to be outted as a MTF.
opinion ahead
trans woman are women, you've self identified as male. that alone sends a red flag for me because it indicates more then identity as work, fetish perhaps. I would not recommend hormone therapy for an issue of sexuality.
QuoteI come here for advice to aid me in my quest, not to judge or be judged.
your replies aren't helping
Firstly, know that developing them as an adult male as a choice is going to be a drastically different experience from what a confused 10 or 11 year old boy developing into a woman against his will goes through. For the latter, no sooner than you start noticing them on women, you notice that you are growing them too. This really ->-bleeped-<-s with your emerging sexuality. Things get confused, ->-bleeped-<-c elements may develop for some.
Secondly, the fascination is fleeting. There may be a bizarre sexual kick of imagining yourself as a woman and wearing those parts for a few minutes. But sex doesn't last that long. The other 23 hours and 55 minutes of the day are torture.
I suppose I could have kept them around for those few minutes of pleasure here and there, but I didn't. Trust me, it gets old. Invest in some breast forms or fill up some water balloons.
Quote from: Breastquest on May 05, 2010, 01:17:51 PMAlthough I can understand partially why you would want to have your breasts removed as they soundly identify you as a female, what other reasons are there for wanting them removed? Are they a burden? Do they hurt? Are you ashamed of them?
I'm going to give you the benifit of the doubt and assume you're just ignorant.
while I like them on other chicks...
They are
1. in the way
2. an extra 10-15lb of excess fat + unneeded tissue
3. and people stare at them ::)
Top 3 anyway
I'm really confused at your post though... if you devlope breasts (or get implants) they're more or less perminant. Why not get fake boobs that come off when you're done?
To be honest, I'm not sure why we all seem to be trying to convince this guy not to do it.
If he wants to do it, let him. But I don't think any of us would be surprised if he soon realised that it was the wrong decision. And if that happens, we shall all sit back and laugh.
Quote from: Ryan on May 05, 2010, 03:51:40 PM
Tits are great. I freaking love tits. Just not on me.
This.
Quote from: Lachlann on May 05, 2010, 04:44:25 PM
Which is funny because on T I've gotten less angry. Honestly, having been on both hormones(female puberty and now male puberty), the only real difference I could think of is how you experience it, but it doesn't seem to be more or less... unless you had excess testosterone for a male body. It's generally a myth.
Chances are you were just being a teenager.
I just wanted to build on this, because I feel like there's a misconception about testosterone that causes a lot of icky stereotyping. I've also heard that a lot of trans men have the same experience as you-- that they actually get calmer on T.
But anyway, I read a paper a while back (I can probably find it if anyone's interested) that looked at aggression in a species of monkey and testosterone and serotonin levels (serotonin is a neurotransmitter that is associated with a lot of things, including mood regulation). It turned out that it wasn't T that made certain male monkeys violent; it was the combination of T and low serotonin levels. The male monkeys with high testosterone and high serotonin were assertive but calm and generally not violent.
So yeah, testosterone doesn't cause aggression. The combination of high testosterone (assertiveness) and low serotonin (more risk-taking, poor executive function, unhappiness) is related to aggression.
I think there were other studies that showed similar findings in humans but I'd have to look that up.
I'll just kind of repeat what everyone else has said I guess mostly because I really don't get the point of this thread.
I like tits on my girlfriend, love them actually. They are very attractive on people who are supposed to have them. I am a man who would, not to be conceited but, be pretty damn attractive, if it weren't for the 2 tumors growing on my chest.
They get hot and sweaty. Now mine have sufficiently shrunk and flattened from T and binding that they do not really get in the way anymore but at one point they did.
Also, like most other transguys, I have found that I am much calmer on T. Testosterone does not inherently make you angry, having things to be angry about makes you angry.
Sigh...what baffles me is why he would come here...I think he would have gotten better understanding in MTF circles. There are certainly some trans ladies that have had breasts longer then myself.
Quote from: Breastquest on May 05, 2010, 02:31:15 PM
Asking a MTF about having breasts is like asking a freshman "how was college?" I get a lot of "if's & maybes".
I don't really understand what you mean by this.
I appreciate where you're coming from, but I don't fully get why you're not asking MTFs. FTMs will have an overwhelming tendency to hate these body parts no matter what. When we talk about the things we dislike about the parts, we inevitably filter some or all of that through our gender identity lens. So, for example, one complaint here is that moobs are heavy. Another is that we dislike the way these appendages move against our body. Still another is that the nipples are too sensitive. Well, I've talked to a couple of MTFs who have said things like, "I love having this weight on my chest...I love the way my breasts move with my body. It feels right." And "My nipples are becoming more sensitive! Sometimes they hurt, but how wonderful!" And so on. So it seems to me that if you want these parts but want to know about the down side of them, consulting someone who hates them like poison might not give you a particularly useful insight into what it might be like for YOU to have these parts. Maybe you should take what we say and reduce the negativity by ninety percent or something.
I dunno. Just my two cents' worth.
Post Merge: May 05, 2010, 09:44:18 PM
Quote from: Lachlann on May 05, 2010, 04:44:25 PM
Which is funny because on T I've gotten less angry. Honestly, having been on both hormones(female puberty and now male puberty), the only real difference I could think of is how you experience it, but it doesn't seem to be more or less... unless you had excess testosterone for a male body. It's generally a myth.
I'm not more angry on T, but I have a lot more trouble controlling my anger and not acting on it. I've always been a very, um, well-behaved person. I'm still well-behaved, I guess, but sometimes I blurt things out when I'm pissed, and I have an awful time not getting in people's faces when they are being idiots.
you said it better then I did arch.
Quote from: Arch on May 05, 2010, 09:42:21 PMI'm not more angry on T, but I have a lot more trouble controlling my anger and not acting on it. I've always been a very, um, well-behaved person. I'm still well-behaved, I guess, but sometimes I blurt things out when I'm pissed, and I have an awful time not getting in people's faces when they are being idiots.
Exact opposite effect for me. Pre-T I had trouble controlling my anger and not acting on it, now I have like 99% control over it.
Quote from: brainiac on May 05, 2010, 08:50:54 PM
But anyway, I read a paper a while back (I can probably find it if anyone's interested) that looked at aggression in a species of monkey and testosterone and serotonin levels (serotonin is a neurotransmitter that is associated with a lot of things, including mood regulation). It turned out that it wasn't T that made certain male monkeys violent; it was the combination of T and low serotonin levels. The male monkeys with high testosterone and high serotonin were assertive but calm and generally not violent.
So yeah, testosterone doesn't cause aggression. The combination of high testosterone (assertiveness) and low serotonin (more risk-taking, poor executive function, unhappiness) is related to aggression.
I would love to read anything you have found on the subject. But I feel the need to point out that there is a big difference between aggressiveness and violent aggression. (I'm not implying that you are mixing the two up; I just run into a lot of people, particularly trans guys, who do.)
I hate to see aggression getting a bad rap when it can be beneficial. I'm not a doormat anymore, and I like that. I'm more apt to speak my mind, and I like that, too. I'm sexually more aggressive. I'm more apt to challenge someone who I think is wrong, even if I'm not one hundred percent sure. I can't definitively claim that HRT is responsible, but if T really IS making me a bit more aggressive, it's almost all to the good. The rest (controlling my occasional fits of temper, for example) just requires a learning curve, as with just about anything new.
I've had a number of experiences with trans guys who have become very aggressive about claiming that they are not aggressive on T. It's actually comical. I can see that they are behaving aggressively; I can't tell whether there has been an increase. But I think that they automatically equate aggression with violence. My response to them is, "Why knock aggression? What's wrong with a certain degree of aggressiveness? As long as you're not hurting people or being obnoxious, nothing at all."
And now back to our regularly scheduled program...what FTMs hate about freakbags.
Post Merge: May 05, 2010, 08:11:43 PM
Quote from: GothTranzboi on May 05, 2010, 09:50:01 PM
you said it better then I did arch.
Ah, but you're so much more concise.
Post Merge: May 05, 2010, 09:14:47 PM
Quote from: Lachlann on May 05, 2010, 10:09:20 PM
Exact opposite effect for me. Pre-T I had trouble controlling my anger and not acting on it, now I have like 99% control over it.
To be fair, I am considerably older than you are, and I am still working through a lot of my issues. Before I came fully out of the closet, I struggled with knowledge of my transness for about as long as you've been alive. I expect to be much more settled in a year or two, after I've made more progress.
Not to mention that I do have moderate depression, so my serotonin levels could very well be a factor. Brainiac, I hope you can send me a link to that study!!!
Lol, well I'm not speaking strictly about violence either. I'm actually less inclined to pick fights verbally, get into debate or challenge people nearly as much as I used to. When I debate with someone now, I have a lot more restraint even though I'm feeling the same amount of emotion as I did before, I feel like there is a lot more control. I feel like I have less to prove, therefore I don't feel the need to have pissing contests as much as I used to. I also find it easier to let things go and ignorant people bother me less. In a sense I simply don't waste my time and energy anymore. I've become a lot more passive, but again, I don't think my emotions have decreased or increased, just the ability to control them.
There's nothing wrong with aggression, as long as it's used wisely, I agree... however, women are assertive as well, and it usually stems from having confidence in yourself. I'd wager it's confidence that's doing it, not a hormone. Short man syndrome, maybe?
The whole testosterone vs serotonin levels is interesting as well. I've been feeling quite unhappy for a while now, but I'm not anymore violent either. I guess it would also depend on how you react on an individual level. Anecdotal evidence isn't always correct either... hmmm.
Quote from: Arch on May 05, 2010, 10:09:44 PM
I would love to read anything you have found on the subject. But I feel the need to point out that there is a big difference between aggressiveness and violent aggression. (I'm not implying that you are mixing the two up; I just run into a lot of people, particularly trans guys, who do.)
I see what you mean, and thank you for the clarification. :) This is what I meant by assertiveness vs. violence.
And I'll find my class notes on those studies and post links to them tomorrow! The more I think about it, the happier I am that I took Behavioral Neuro 2 (even if the last half of it was terribly confusing). The prof was actually surprisingly progressive about transgender stuff--he spent a while making sure that people in the class understood that there are many ways to define sex and gender-- and even showed us that one post-mortem study that showed that MTFs had BNSTs the same (smaller than male) size as those of cis females and the one FTM had an even bigger BNST than most of the cis males.
Also, he demonstrated rat courtship and mating behavior (which he actually did some interesting work on--he accidentally got male rats to show female sexual behaviors and the reverse-- I'll see if I can find that too) to our class by
acting out the male and female's behavior. Including lordosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordosis_behavior).
Quote from: Lachlann on May 05, 2010, 10:26:47 PM
The whole testosterone vs serotonin levels is interesting as well. I've been feeling quite unhappy for a while now, but I'm not anymore violent either. I guess it would also depend on how you react on an individual level. Anecdotal evidence isn't always correct either... hmmm.
Unfortunately, serotonin isn't actually "the happy chemical", no matter what the antidepressant manufacturers want us to believe. Mood regulation is really complicated, so feeling unhappy doesn't necessarily mean you have low levels of serotonin or vice versa. And I think you made an important point-- everyone reacts to stress differently!
Quote from: brainiac on May 05, 2010, 10:45:20 PMUnfortunately, serotonin isn't actually "the happy chemical", no matter what the antidepressant manufacturers want us to believe. Mood regulation is really complicated, so feeling unhappy doesn't necessarily mean you have low levels of serotonin or vice versa. And I think you made an important point-- everyone reacts to stress differently!
I've read that serotonin level is strongly implicated in depression, but that there's a lot of conflicting evidence and so much that we don't know. Anyway, SSRIs did not really help me, whereas other (non-SSRI) depression meds did. So who knows what's going on in my tiny little brain.
Oh boy, Breastquest-you should move over to the MTF or Non-Op section and browse for a while if you havent already. You won't get a positive response from the ftm guys about their breasts as they can't stand to have them. If you want to go ahead and transition to female why don't you get in touch with those of us who want the same things? If you can't/won't transition then the non op section will help you or the mtf section-at least we all want to have the burden of carrying our breasts and have at best a dis-interest in having the horrid appendage down south.
At the moment I am very stable emotionally and do not have any disphoria to speak of (as compared to a month ago). I would suggest that you read as many of our previous posts as you have time to and go from there. PM any of us that you want to.
If you haven't already looked into it-a gender therapist will help alot. I love having what growth I have and I have a difficult(sometimes) home life as many others here have as well. I am a woman and do not wish to identify as male. And if you havent figured it out yet-there are some who do not like it when someone asks these sort of questions. The forum is just like in the general population of our society-you will find all kinds of people and we don't always agree or get along well. For what it's worth SUSANs is the best forum to be associated with that I have found.
randi
Uh...my chest is massive and prevents me from passing and prevents me from being comfortable in my own skin. Clothing doesn't fit because of them. Reading the OP's post and responses caused mucho face palms.
Anyway, regardless of what many of you think of me, I appreciate all of the comments and wish you all luck and happiness.
Quote from: LordKAT on May 05, 2010, 02:36:21 PM
I look in the mirror and wonder what is up with the image, that is not me. The image has two large growths, not the me i see in my mind. I reach down in the early morning hours and wonder where it is. What happened? Then I come fully awake and remember, someone forgot that part from the very beginning. This body I see in the mirror is not me, it is a caricature of what I would look like if I were a girl. I need it to look as my mind sees it.
This is so true, after only a few days of binding im very used to seeing myself with a flat chest because that is always the way i have been in my mind.
They get in the way, they occasionally hurt, i can't lie on my stomach without propping my pillow up in a certain way. They make me look like a tent when i wear tee's and they just look really wrong when you look at the rest of me =/
I hope I can control my anger more on T. I have had rage issues since adolescence. Major violent, destructive rage. Although I'm not on T yet, just presenting as male seems to have calmed me down considerably. Like I should be raging now, because a "friend" of mine has been ->-bleeped-<- talking me but I feel oddly detached.
As for breasts. I have a complicated relationship with mine. I know they are nice. They are great, perfect tits. Good size, good shape. People have even said as much. They're just not mine. I would love to see them/touch them on someone else.
Since binding, I find myself looking at girls tits A LOT more. Yup.
I hope you guys don't mind an MtF butting in here, but I have just been reading through all of your posts and have to say that I can relate a whole lot better to you guys and what you feel, than I can relate to the OP. I personally don't think, Breastquest, you will really find the specific answers you are looking for in either the FtM or MtF camps. It sounds to me more that you are not dysphoric, since there was no mention of you disliking any part of being a man. For the rest of us, being what we know we are (in our mind) and what see in the mirror and feel in our clothes, etc is completely wrong.
We MtFs may have it slightly easier in some respects than the guys here do, at least we can wear breast forms and tuck the dangly bits out of the and they are stuck with their "chesticles" (BTW I love that term) which really hinder their ability to pass or even feel like the men they are supposed to be. For me, I could not comprehend wanting to remain a man and have breasts. There are so many potential social problems and prejudices that would be associated with it. That and they are permanent.
Any how, I would suggest that as has been suggested, maybe checking out the non-op section, or ->-bleeped-<-/crossdresser sections, or even the androgynes. There are many flavors of transgender throughout this site and some 4000+ opinions and feelings on the subject. If you are not dysphoric, I would not expect to get a satisfying opinion from anyone who is.
I wish you the best of luck in finding what is comfortable for you and wish you much happiness. In the end that is what we each want - just in different forms.
I return you now to your regularly scheduled discussions. :)
Deanna
Quote from: Deanna_Renee on May 06, 2010, 05:30:12 PMAny how, I would suggest that as has been suggested, maybe checking out the non-op section, or ->-bleeped-<-/crossdresser sections, or even the androgynes. There are many flavors of transgender throughout this site and some 4000+ opinions and feelings on the subject. If you are not dysphoric, I would not expect to get a satisfying opinion from anyone who is.
Good advice. Certainly much better than mine. Thanks, Deanna.
I can see that the original poster is trying to weigh his options in some way, get a better idea of what life might be like afterward. But I truly feel that most or even all FTM perspectives will be amplified and distorted in such a way that they won't be of much use. Of course, it's up to the poster to decide that. Comments, Breastquest? I wasn't trying to tell you to buzz off, and I don't think most others here were, either. I hope you didn't get that impression. But I would like to know if you got anything useful out of this thread.
Deanna touched on it quite nicely. I do think there are places where breastquest could find a more productive outlook on what he seeks. Also I came across an interesting buck angel video a day ago, in which he said a cisgendered man, wrote him a letter saying that he'd always felt like a man who was meant to have a vagina, and leave the rest as he was and live as male. While I initally balked at the romoval of his jr. parts it made me think of this thread. I also think though that like most ftm's the man who traded parts below the waist would have a conciderably easier time going about his day to day life undetected.
If it's true that a part of our brains is devoted to a "body map," then I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some men feel that they want traditionally female parts and vice versa. This could also explain why some trans men don't crave bottom surgery.
Quote from: Arch on May 07, 2010, 12:07:16 AM
If it's true that a part of our brains is devoted to a "body map," then I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some men feel that they want traditionally female parts and vice versa. This could also explain why some trans men don't crave bottom surgery.
True.
I keep reaching in the night for something that isn't there tho. I will probably go for it when I can afford it. I debate on what exactly tho.
I understand this completely; I'm doing the exact same thing, and it has been worsening as of late. I
try not to think about it because it is incredibly demeaning and crippling.
As for the chesticles, which is a term I love, I find them quite obnoxious to live with. I am only a B luckily, so they don't get in the way of most things... However, I have always felt that my clothes fit me "wrongly". I'll contribute to the idea that the FTM section of the site is not the place to get what the OP is looking for, however.
Quote from: LordKAT on May 07, 2010, 04:36:59 AM
True.
I keep reaching in the night for something that isn't there tho. I will probably go for it when I can afford it. I debate on what exactly tho.
I always said i'd never consider phallo as it is at the moment. Now however its becoming strangely appealing.
I find it truly annoying that I think its there and have to consciously recall that it is not. This happens during the day too but seems the worst in those early waking moments. I used to be afraid to sleep knowing what waking would bring. That awful feeling of being deformed. I often felt that it must have been cut off because of how much I feel it there and its not. This is depressing.
I appreciate all of the posts here, I really do. And in a way I did find some of what I was looking for. You see, if I were to ask a MTF about having breasts, most of it would be sugar coated by their admiration of their own breasts, which would really mean the "pros". I needed to hear the "cons" of having breasts and this really turned out to be a great source for the "cons".
I never intended any disrespect, you guys are sorting out your lives here and I am an outsider. BUT, I leave this FTM forum with more than I came with and a better understanding of how you feel.
It seems, strange as it is, that the things that you guys dislike or hate about breasts are the things that make me want them. Keep in mind that I am 42 years old, I've had all the kids I'm going to have and I have a wife that loves me. I can tell ya, sex with four soft breasts between you is an awesome thing for me.
I will take with me all of the opinions here about breasts and certainly remember these words whenever I have some sort of breast related difficulty, which I'm sure will happen sooner or later. Also, your input will assist me in keeping my breast size modest (never really wanted D's lol).
I would like to leave an old Cajun saying with you. Anyone here know what Boudreaux's Law is?
Boudreaux thought Murphy was an optimist. (I really live by this law lol)
Getting "cons" from those who don't want their breasts is good, getting the "pros" of those who do want breasts is all good, but your real questions is, How ackward is it to have breasts as a genetic man?
In other words, will this cause issues for you at the gym (especially in the shower), at the beach (walking around in your speedo with breasts), at work (all the other men looking at you and wondering), etc.
This isn't to put you down, but just things to think on.
Sarah L.
I've given this a great deal of thought. I don't spend much time at the beach, if i do I keep my shirt on. I don't go to the gym.
I have a pretty large frame so i found that concealing them isn't that hard. I enjoy my breasts, knowing that they are there all the time, even when they ache or hurt. This is for me to enjoy, I did this only for me. I think that the breast is one of natures finest creations and as a man I feel cheated or short changed by not having them from birth. My little sister mentioned to my wife that she wants to get a BA. I cringed! So I asked my wife, "how do I pass on what I know to her", Breast enlargement that is. It works for gg's too. I am thinking about "coming out" to my sister just so I can show her what I have learned about breast enlargement, hoping to prevent her from getting implants. What does she have to lose? Besides, she's tiny and it wouldn't take much in the way of enlargement to make her look and feel better about herself.
What worked for you, may not work for her.
You are correct. What works for me will not work for her. However, there are ways for gg's to enlarge as well. ;D
You know what I don't understand? Why so many women get breast augmentation in the first place.
When I was researching top surgery, I came across lots of BA before-and-after shots. I'm not exactly a boob man, but in about two thirds or three quarters of the cases, I couldn't see any earthly reason to have the surgery. Most of the, er, parts, were quite ample. A lot of them were big to begin with, and they weren't particularly saggy or lopsided or weird or anything. And the after photos...good lord, you would need a crane, not a bra, to handle those things. Why do that to yourself voluntarily?
I just don't get it.
This is what I'm trying to prevent my sister from doing, even at the cost of "coming out" and letting her know that her brother has breasts (and experience growing them). Hard topic to bring up with a gg if you are a man :o
Quote from: Arch on May 07, 2010, 04:05:47 PM
You know what I don't understand? Why so many women get breast augmentation in the first place.
When I was researching top surgery, I came across lots of BA before-and-after shots. I'm not exactly a boob man, but in about two thirds or three quarters of the cases, I couldn't see any earthly reason to have the surgery. Most of the, er, parts, were quite ample. A lot of them were big to begin with, and they weren't particularly saggy or lopsided or weird or anything. And the after photos...good lord, you would need a crane, not a bra, to handle those things. Why do that to yourself voluntarily?
I just don't get it.
Apart from the fact they look fake. Probably feel fake too. Regarding above, the one springing to mind right now is Katie Price, aka Jordan. Eeeeeww...
Natural's much better - just not on me. They sometimes hurt, they're lumpy, they prevent me from whipping my shirt off in summer and therefore forcing me to bake. They've already let me down once when one decided to grow two sizes bigger than the other, making me feel even more insecure; when using outplants to bring the smaller up to the larger (while awaiting reduction surgery), I got a lot of unwanted attention, which I hated. I've never liked the things, even before I knew I was trans.
Quote from: LordKAT on May 07, 2010, 05:21:28 AM
I find it truly annoying that I think its there and have to consciously recall that it is not. This happens during the day too but seems the worst in those early waking moments. I used to be afraid to sleep knowing what waking would bring. That awful feeling of being deformed. I often felt that it must have been cut off because of how much I feel it there and its not. This is depressing.
On top of my waking hours, I am now having incredibly traumatic dreams about it. Quite graphic, too - clawing at my crotch, desperate to find it. It's inescapable. It is very depressing, isn't it? There's not much I can add, unfortunately, but I understand how you feel.
Quote from: Breastquest on May 07, 2010, 04:44:59 PM
This is what I'm trying to prevent my sister from doing, even at the cost of "coming out" and letting her know that her brother has breasts (and experience growing them). Hard topic to bring up with a gg if you are a man :o
Bad, bad idea (coming out to your sister). You seem to have some rather romantic ideas about how the experience will go, but what if it doesn't go that way? What if she tells, say, your parents about what is going on? Are you ready for that? Or what if you lose or damage your relationship with her? Your sister? She might be horrified that her brother is thinking along these lines. She is a GG after all. The idea of her brother wanting breasts, and offering advice on growing breasts is likely to be really, really weird to her.
Please sit back and carefully reconsider this. While I see nothing wrong with a male that wants breasts (after all i'm an androgyne with some breasts), there are a *lot* of things to consider before you take that step.
Quote from: Rhalkos on May 07, 2010, 05:24:22 PM
I'm going to be honest with you here.
You are a self-identified man who is appropriating part of the female body for your own kicks. From a feminist perspective, this is quite reprehensible and highly misogynistic. Trans women cop enough flak for being female identifying people who work towards female bodies without you sticking your male-identifying oar into this already touchy issue.
Why is it that many males feel that they can take whatever they like from women? We have enough problems in this world operating as females, without having a man taking away another part of our identity for his own pleasure.
I respect your right to have and state your opinion, but I'm wondering what you think of trans men who keep their front holes because they like them. Or trans men who keep their internal parts and then pop out babies. Or androgynes who want some "female" parts and some "male" parts. Or lesbians who use strap-ons and who pack on a regular basis. And so on.
I for one try very hard to fight against biological essentialism. That kind of thinking is what makes trans people pariahs in the first place. A lot of people, mostly women, feel that trans women are men who appropriate female spaces, female bodies, and female identities. I think that's a lot of hokum.
As for Breastquest, it's his body. He can do what he wants with it. I may not understand. I may not even approve. But I will not condemn him for it, especially on a trans support site. People with all sorts of gender issues and genderbending tendencies come here for positive vibes, help, and advice. And I think they should get it.
Well said Arch,
I personally don't see how it could be perceived that I am 'taking away another part of' a woman's identity. I am not appropriating anything from anyone. My need to change myself to more closely reach my gender identity is not done at the loss of any other person, same for the guys here in this forum. I am also having a very, very hard time fathoming how what the OP is hoping to accomplish or what any of us are trying to accomplish is even remotely misogynistic? The OP is not desiring to grow breasts (I'm assuming from what has been said here) out of some hatred of women.
misogynist |məˈsäjənist|
noun
a man who hates women.
adjective
reflecting or inspired by a hatred of women : a misogynist attitude.
The guys here are not transitioning out of a hatred of women (again assuming) it is out of severe incongruence with one's own body image with their gender identity that pushes us to do what is needed for each of us to reach a level of transition that we are comfortable with. If that means identifying as male and developing breasts (whether for sexual gratification or gender congruence) then it is not for any one of us to say it is right or wrong.
I think it is also safe to say that few people, here or elsewhere, 'choose' to undergo any form of transition with the intent of harming or lashing out against another person or group of people, be they women or men or androgynes or other identifying group.
Each of us has our own individual scale of what it will take for us to be comfortable within our own skins, some require only small superficial changes (i.e. cross-dressing in private on occasion) while others seek far more drastic measures. We can not judge what is right, wrong, good, bad, crazy, sick, or enviable for another person, only for ourselves. The rules here state that this is a support site.
Now, stepping off my soapbox. In response to Breastquest's question about broaching the topic of coming out to his sister as a means to help convince her to not undergo surgery for a BA. Only you can judge how she will accept the news. If she is open-minded and you mention it in manner that will not freak her out or sound condescending then it may well be a great experience. I am assuming that if you have any kind of direct relationship with her, she will likely eventually figure out what is going on - as those fleshy bumps alter the fit of your shirts. If you choose to come out, then I would recommend perhaps starting out with explaining what and why you are doing what you are doing. She may come out and ask how you are doing it which would be your in for explaining what you are doing to accomplish this goal. That may be all she needs to hear to dissuade her from seeking surgery.
As to your comments about only going to a certain point in development and then 'turning off' the growth. Ummm... I don't understand that one. To my knowledge no one has control over how much breast development they get, they will get as big or small as they are going to get. Perhaps with the exception of BA, and even then there are too many factors to dictate just how far they go.
All the reasons why I hate mine have pretty much all been covered already... Coming from someone who is attracted to men only, they don't do anything for me, on me or anyone else. I hate the way they look, they distort the way my shirts should hang, and I really hate the way it feels when I run. I don't swim in public pools any more because swimsuits are required, and I don't feel comfortable in them. I'm lucky to be small, but that's not without problems either because I get suggestions on how to enlarge or better show them off, and all I want to say is DO NOT WANT. :eusa_wall:
Quote from: Rhalkos on May 07, 2010, 05:24:22 PM
Why is it that many males feel that they can take whatever they like from women? We have enough problems in this world operating as females, without having a man taking away another part of our identity for his own pleasure.
And just what is it that one man in this whole universe with breasts going to take from you? And what sort of problems do you have "operating" in this world? :icon_confused:
To be honest, I think moderate-average size breasts on a proportional body looks amazing, even if its smaller than average.
But when it's too large (non-plastic) it looks like it would hurt, and when it is documented it looks fake.
Rhalkos, I believe I know exactly where you're coming from. I've read more feminist theory than I know what to do with. But I'm not going to get sucked into a whole blow-by-blow analysis of the merits of your statements. My last post (and my position as a moderator) is concerned with whether the people who come here for support are actually getting it--and whether they are being subjected to ad hominem attacks instead. Opinions are fine until they cross the line into personal attack. Your opinion is at least in the grey area, so please be careful.