I was showing my mom some pictures from transbucket.. pictures of both.. really good, and pictures of bad top surgery results.
She recognized that the good results were better.. but she called them mutilation. said that the scars looked terrible.
and I showed her a picture of Charles Asher's chest.. he has the best surgery results from double incision. and she looked at it.. and made a face and said 'you can still see the scars'
I said "well the scars will always be there.. but it doesnt matter.. the scars don't matter.. he can go outside shirtless now, he doesnt have to bind"
ugh
it just makes me mad that she doesnt understand the importance of top surgery.. that I don't give a crap about having scars.. I'm frustrated that she doesnt understand how much I hate having these disgusting things on my chest.. and they are more disgusting then the deepest darkest scars.
my mom said the EXACT same thing. I don't think parents will ever fully understand how having breasts makes a ftm feel in comparison to light scarring
And hey, scars look tough. Boobs just look like boobs. :embarrassed:
That really sucks that she's not "getting it." I don't really know what to say to help though. I understand. I've shown people both top and bottom surgery pics, and always get the same "eew why would you want that?" response. Hum... I want it because it's a better option than dealing with what I currently have.
I actually love scars.. and so long as my top surgery scars arent HORRIFIC.. I think i will like them.. they will remind me what i went through.. and how happy I am I don't have boobs anymore.
Chicks dig scars. Well. And dudes dig scars.
I've got some pretty massive ones from necessary (non trans) operations and I've had more than a couple of people want to run their tongues over them. They're... not really in a place that that does anything for me, but on the chest would be pretty badass for that, probably.
Having just gone through a burst of growth on my boobs, I'm walking around going "BOOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!", playing with them, and feeling how great they are to stimulate.
Can't imagine the reverse hell it would be. Sorry guys. :(
... mutilation huh.... I wonder what she'd think diy results would be like..
I can see her point. It must be very hard for others to understand why we would want to put ourselves through surgery to remove part of our bodies.
It is not mutilation though:
"Mutilation or maiming is an act or physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body, usually without causing death."
My mum completely respects me and the choices I have made, but cringes at the thought of me going through chest surgery. It's partly the major surgery that scares her. Seeing her child getting cut up. But I imagine it's also the fact that her little girl will really be gone.
When we can't understand something, we often try to empathize, but even this isn't really possible without getting into the mind of a transperson.
Yeah as Ryan said, it's hard for non trans people to understand why we need to/would want to go through this process.
The amount of scaring varies by procedure anyway. I don't want to go through double mastectomy because of the lines across the chest. There are surgeons that use other methods. The one I would like to go to uses a two stage process; the first operation to cut away the fat, leaving scarring around the nipple and some excess skin. The second operation about 8 months later takes away any skin that hasn't tightened yet. All this means much less scarring - but not the immediate result of the mastectomy. Guess it depends what you want/can afford.
I agree with Ryan, alot of non trans people find it hard to understand and something so extreme and permanant people and especially parents will find scary.
I think the problem is that a lot of people think of top as being the same as plastic surgery. They see it as being the same as something like breast implants, and see it the same way, as something unneccesary.
I think society has put too much pressure on what women (because thats unfortunately how most people still see us) are supposed to be, and can't comprehend the idea that not everyone fits that mold.
Scars fade a lot over time. I have a scar on my back from 8 years ago, and you have to know its there to be able to see it.
Quote from: Ryan on June 05, 2010, 03:18:34 PM
It is not mutilation though:
"Mutilation or maiming is an act or physical injury that degrades the appearance or function of any living body, usually without causing death."
It's only mutilation on a female body/a body that is expected to breastfeed.
She sees you as a female, maybe you can try to convince her that you're not a crazy female, but a deformed male that needs surgical intervention to fix an unfortunate gynecomastia problem.
Then anyone who has ever had any type of corrective surgery has been mutilated.
To me, mutilation is to make something hideously ugly. Like years ago some rapist attacker slashed his victim's face. That's mutilation.
Corrective surgery done by a boarded surgeon or plastic surgeon is NOT mutilation.
Geez.
Jay
Quote from: Miniar on June 05, 2010, 03:06:48 PM
... mutilation huh.... I wonder what she'd think diy results would be like..
Yeah that was my first thought when I saw the title.
Your mom really needs to learn that youree not her little girl
Do you think, perhaps, your mom is grasping at straws?
If you had your apendix taken out, you would have a scar.
Back to the empathy thing:
You're in your mothers shoes. You've had a child. Spent 9 months creating it inside you, then a massive portion of your life raising it.
Then you find that your child hates their own body. The body that YOU made. They're so unhappy that they want to go get surgery. Your little girl, the girl that you raised wants to have her breasts hacked off and her body completely changed.
As much as it sucks, I can completely understand why a parent would be so upset at the thought.
Yup, my mom thinks everything is mutilation. From changing my name to hormones to surgery.
And it is mutilation, but it's not like trans people do it for the wrong reason.
On a somewhat-but-not related note, my manager the other day started complaining about her bra then bras in general. She then said "I should get that surgery you're going to get". :D I thought that was funny yet somehow accepting as well.
My sister even told me there were times she wished she didn't have boobs. So, I have a theory... I think even most non-trans women sometimes wish they didn't have boobs.
As Ryan has said, I think your mother is probably a little bit shocked at losing her daughter. She is probably hoping to deter you by using the word mutilation, it's such a harsh word. I don't think women who've had breast cancer and removal would like it to be called that either.
As it is elective surgery (well not really, it's corrective surgery but...), some people can't grasp the idea of someone remodeling their body, whatever way that might be.
Once it's all said and done, your mother will come to terms with your new body shape.
This is why I have no plans to show my mom any surgery pics. No point in scaring her over something that is inevitable.
As a transman I get where you're coming from, but as a parent.. if my daughter came to me and said she was transsexual and wanted to have chest surgery.. I'd be understanding and supportive, but I'd be feeling the same thing that every other parent feels.. this is my little girl, and the little girl I helped create is not only unhappy with her body, but is planning to alter it.. and every future plan (no matter how slightly) that I had for her.... No the surgery isn't mutilation, yes for most it is necessary, and yes we aren't our parents daughters anymore.. but for a parent you're always going to be in some way, even just in memory their little girl.. and as a parent I still have to think that this is something that you never get over, you just learn to accept each new thing as part of the process of the child you love being able to finally love themselves. I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset that she doesn't understand... just that maybe we need to try and understand them too.
While I fully understand your urgent need to have something you feel does not belong on your chest, removed, I can feel for your mother too.
Any surgery has it's hazards and the thought of that is probably scaring her a lot. Especially if there have been any problems with friends or family's ops.
We are talking elective surgery here though, not some backyard operation in a tribal village. Have any of your relatives had a face lift? If so, did your Mum think that was 'mutilation?' It is really just a lot more of the same in a way.
Hope it works out.
I think Evan's comment holds a lot of weight. No matter what we do we will upset our parents in some way. The girl who has implants probably horrifies her Mum 'Why do you want to mutilate yourself'?
The same cry is no doubt heard when children get piercings, tats, none parental hair styles, non-parental clothing etc. OK having surgery may be seen as another level, I remember my Mum horrified when I tried to castrate myself, 'But you won't be able to marry and sire children :o,'
We just have to do what we do because none TG people will never understand. How could they? It is the total reverse of their entire biology and self belief. Why can't we accept how we are? For exactly the same reason.
Cindy
On the empathy angle.
Yes you need to be a little tolerant of your mother. She is growing up as well. Coming to terms with the reality that her little girl won't be a princess, swooped away by Prince Charming.
We all need to grow up. We all need to be tolerant when others are growing up. But it's about accepting the realities of life. Our parents seem to rock solid when we are young. It can be as difficult for us to accept that they are growing up as much as it is for them, that we are independent and think for ourselves.
My mum thought it was 'mutilation' for a long time and gave me a few lectures about 'why do you hate yourself so much that you feel the need to mutilate yourself!?' My eventual reply? 'Mutilation isn't getting the surgery with a proper doctor. That's corrective surgery. Mutilation would be me taking that scalpel in my room to my chest and cutting the lumps off myself.'
She pretty much stopped calling it 'mutilation' to my face after that... Not sure if she still thinks that inside her head or not though. But I think she's accepted that it's something that I really need to do, regardless of whether or not it's 'mutilation'.
You can always find this guy 6pac (6pak? 6pack? don't know the spelling). I know he has surgery pictures on transbucket or another surgery site and he's on youtube (often topless). He has little visible scarring from his surgery.