I was at a parenting conference this week and was invited to the Secret Men's Club. Meet at the secret location at X time. Okay! So I arrive at the appointed location to find myself with about 30 dads who had escaped their wives. :) And the next thing I know (and totally predictable from my own experience with my ex!), out pops the secret stash of beer! But gee, there is one 6 pack and 30 guys. So one guy runs off to get his secret six pack from his trunk, and another one goes for his secret bottle of wine. So there we sat, drinking, and discussing dad issues.
My first beer EVER! I should say :o (with a huge LOL) and it was exactly what I expected a group of dads to say about parenting, that they would never say to their wives (but their wives suspect it anyway).
And I was accepted into the group without question. Fun stuff!
Jay
Cool.
But now you've got me wondering what they said that they would never say to their wives!
Quote from: sneakersjay on June 10, 2010, 07:44:43 PM
I was at a parenting conference this week and was invited to the Secret Men's Club. Meet at the secret location at X time. Okay! So I arrive at the appointed location to find myself with about 30 dads who had escaped their wives. :) And the next thing I know (and totally predictable from my own experience with my ex!), out pops the secret stash of beer! But gee, there is one 6 pack and 30 guys. So one guy runs off to get his secret six pack from his trunk, and another one goes for his secret bottle of wine. So there we sat, drinking, and discussing dad issues.
My first beer EVER! I should say :o (with a huge LOL) and it was exactly what I expected a group of dads to say about parenting, that they would never say to their wives (but their wives suspect it anyway).
And I was accepted into the group without question. Fun stuff!
Jay
Ah secret men's business :laugh:
Why do guys always pack the trunk/boot of the car? Because they need to make their grog stash :laugh:. Very well known in Aus land. Typical drive, he says, 'We need to stop and get some ice' . She says, 'Why we are taking child to a 2 yrs old party" he says, ' never know when there will be an emergency'. Mum stays with screaming children and Dad goes with the other guys to wait for the emergency, " that's a good eskie Jay, how long does it keep the grog cold?" 'Not sure, better test it' says Jay.
Jay hope you are well and have a laugh and cold beer for me
Cheers
Cindy
Sneaky, sneaky mister! ;)
yay
I love waking up and reading good stuff first thing. Kinda sets the mood for the day.
Quote from: sneakersjay on June 10, 2010, 07:44:43 PM
And the next thing I know (and totally predictable from my own experience with my ex!), out pops the secret stash of beer! But gee, there is one 6 pack and 30 guys. So one guy runs off to get his secret six pack from his trunk, and another one goes for his secret bottle of wine. So there we sat, drinking, and discussing dad issues.
Sounds like the loaves and the fishes. :) Congratulations Jay! It has been a soul-deep thrill for me to be accepted into the women's club, so I think I know how you feel.
How wonderful to be just one of the guys. Yay Jay! :eusa_dance:
- Kate
yay! lol congratulations Jay ;)
LOL :) Those are fun, aren't they? I managed to get included in the Secret Men's Club after a year or so in the military, and it was like the crowning achievement of my life to be standing in a deserted parking lot at 2am drinking beer.
That's awesome dude.
That's so cool! Men and their beer, lol. :)
Quote from: sneakersjay on June 10, 2010, 07:44:43 PM
the Secret Men's Club. Meet at the secret location at X time. Okay! So I arrive at the appointed location to find myself with about 30 dads who had escaped their wives. :) And the next thing I know (and totally predictable from my own experience with my ex!), out pops the secret stash of beer! But gee, there is one 6 pack and 30 guys. So one guy runs off to get his secret six pack from his trunk, and another one goes for his secret bottle of wine. So there we sat, drinking,
Jay
That so funny, its made my day, sounds like my 3brothers and my boyfriend (fiancé), thats what they get up to, how Id love to be a fly in the wall, guys sure love their beer lol definitely no place for a girl or a lady
p
I enjoy the taste of beer now. I didn't pre-T. That's also an enjoyable thing.
Quote from: sneakersjay on June 10, 2010, 07:44:43 PM
Secret Men's Club. I should say :o (with a huge LOL) and it was exactly what I expected a group of dads to say about parenting, that they would never say to their wives (but their wives suspect it anyway).
Quote from: Arch on June 10, 2010, 08:00:10 PM
Cool.
But now you've got me wondering what they said that they would never say to their wives!
Ok Jay, the suspense is KILLING ME! ! What do guys say to each other that they never say to their Wives, your not getting off the hook on this one lol
Im about to become a guy's Wife in 2months time, your a typical guy Jay, give nothing away, my Fiancé is having his Stag weekend away 2weeks before our wedding, where he is going and what they are up to Iv no idea, Im tolded absolutely nothing, its a secret Men's Club, a guy only weekend, all a big secret, I'II have my hen night, no big secret or big deal, just a girly night out.
p
Trust me, pauline, you do not want to know.
Quote from: kyril on June 16, 2010, 07:28:28 PMTrust me, pauline, you do not want to know.
Well, but I do. Especially since I have no children and am not likely to ever be involved with a woman again.
Quote from: kyril on June 16, 2010, 07:28:28 PM
Trust me, pauline, you do not want to know.
But I do I do I do please.................
Quote from: Arch on June 17, 2010, 12:22:50 AM
Well, but I do. Especially since I have no children and am not likely to ever be involved with a woman again.
Right on Arch.......
Bah sucks, ok ok point taken, Jay hasn't replyed.
This male bonding or Secret Men's Club has been brought up in thread after thread, last time in this thread https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,76110.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,76110.0.html) why are guys so so protective of ''men activities'' Im just courious, guys don't seem to have the same couriosity, I had this discussion with my boyfriend last night.
In joking way I enquiried about his stag weekend away, just like the guys here he gave nothing away, 1 big male bonding secret, yet Id no problem telling him little bits about my hen night on what myself and the other women might do and so on, but in a teasing way he'd no interest, rolling his eyes to the sky, women! sissy silly stupid girly stuff, he still said nothing, gave nothing away, then finally just said 2words ''men stuff'' maybe Im over reacting, anyway after all this, Im still in the dark >:(
p
Ah well Pauline as I have observed some of us do occasionally get allowed to sneak in at the back. Mostly you really genuinely wouldn't want to know either because it would not interest you or because he would worry that it might offend you. Not all of the elements that I describe are present on all occasions but many of them probably will be.
There are many facets to this male bonding thing. Conversationally it can be anything from the impossibility of reading a womans mind "I hate it when she asks..." to cars to football, plus a lot of testosterone fueled good natured competition from drinking contests to Peeing contests (on occasion quite literally) and even good natured fights. I've seen two best mates slug it out till black and blue then slap each other on the back and go buy a drink together. There are also loads of practical jokes and silly stunts involved. How else do you think that detached toilet seat got hooked over the lamp-post?
Then there is the oggling and sexual comparing of notes. The blatant objectification of female flesh. The mental undressing of any women within range "I don't fancy yours," and associated rating of the goods. The sexploits and the general bad behaving and extreme "bending" of the rules of monogamy - the thing is none of this means that he doesn't love you. In most cases it is the thrill of the chase and the reassurance that he can still "pull" that is all he his after, but the avaerage woman would probably not understand it and might find it disturbing, which is why he won't let you see it, because he doesn't want you to get hurt and then have to spend weeks over analysing something which was a spur of the moment bit of fun.
There are also a lot of discussions arguements and debates held in what a man would maintain was the "straightforward" male fashion in which people say what they mean and do not laden comments with emotional and psychological subtle overtones and baggage.
Basically men need to have space to "rut" and compete with each other just as women do. The competition is more overt and physical where women do it psychologically and very subtly, but the game is actually exactly the same. For men the issue may be bragging the performance of his car or demonstrating his ability to pull and sweet talk a pretty girl, while for a woman it could be the health of her child or her sense of fashion and taste, but the idea is still to establish the pecking order, which is why someone of the opposite gender is difficult to accomodate because normally they would not be competeing for the same resources and emotional space and therefore there would be no need.
As I have observed, for some reason I am genuinely still welcomed in both clubs, so I hope I have not spoiled anyones fun by posting this little expose. If the guys want to know then, in the interests of fairness, I will happilly blow the gaffe on what really happens on a girls night out or a ladies coffee morning... but trust me guys to borrow Kyril's phrase "You really don't want to know!" ;) :laugh:
At a recent wedding the grooms speech in part said. I will give no explanation of how I got a black eye on the stag night, none is needed. But ladies I do want to know how (my wife) got a black eye on her Hen's night. Too which several female voices replied " Oh no you don't" to much laughter from all genders, and understood by one :laugh:.
Cindy
Without breaking the Guy Code by confirming or denying the contents of Jenny's post, I will say it's a very good post :)
Dear Jenny
That is the best reply Iv read on this forum in a very long time, you explain it so well, no wonder your excepted and genuinely welcomed in both clubs, your a very all rounded person. Very opened minded.
Iv no regrets in transition, but the role my Mother played in my transition in the early years was well sort of a ''very girly approach'' it has sort of stayed with me all them years, I think as well its how men in particular see in me.
When I asked my boyfriend what attracted him to me, he said I was very ''ladylike'' woman, thats why he was even more surprised when he learned I was trans. That why I think Im never made welcome in the ''guy activites''
Some of the activites guys get up to just wouldnd interest me ugh! But the secret silence around it always amazes me, last night 2brothers, my BF and 2other guys called by, I made tea and coffee and brought it into the room on a tray, they immediately stopped chatting and looked at one another, they where discussing this guy only weekend in July, probably wondering if I overheard, but I didn't, they then went out, probably to a ''woman free zone''
BF came back later, I just in a very light hearted way, ''how are the boys, looking forward to your weekend away, nice plans made'' he just replyed with that twinkle in his eye, yes plans all made, nothing to worry or concern you dear, nothing to do with you, just ''men stuff'' then he completely change the subject.
Quote from: rejennyrated on June 18, 2010, 01:41:47 AM
If the guys want to know then, in the interests of fairness, I will happilly blow the gaffe on what really happens on a girls night out or a ladies coffee morning...
Don't you dare Jenny, its a girl thing.........
Quote from: kyril on June 18, 2010, 03:55:15 PM
Without breaking the Guy Code by confirming or denying
Now that is a real typical guy reply lol yes the GUY CODE, well my Fiancé, my 3brothers and all their male friends in my experience never never never break the GUY CODE, not even to women who they know so well, your a nice guy Kyril, but you can't break the GUY CODE to a chick, thats the real world for us chicks.
p
Quote from: kyril on June 18, 2010, 03:55:15 PM
Without breaking the Guy Code by confirming or denying the contents of Jenny's post, I will say it's a very good post :)
...which still says nothing about what men might say to each other about parenting. Sigh.
If sex with a pretty woman is on the line guys break the man code every time.
The entire point of male compitition and bonding is for access to the females and breeding privlage. Once this is assured all bets are off. It is why alot of men have no real conection outside of the wife and kids.
I have seen it time and time again, everything is going great in a group of dudes then some Yoko Ono shows up and corupts the group or worse the alpha.
(I did spend many many years cultivating a male persona....)
1. In my experience women talk about men and sex when they are together in much more detailed and explicit terms then men EVER do. The average conversation between two guys about any given women is about two words. "Nice!" "Yeah." That's pretty much about it.
2. A woman will not necessarily break up the boys as fast as a boy breaks up the girls. Guys share, women do not.
3. Yoko Ono gets a bad rap for breaking up the Beatles. She didn't. Ringo and George had already walked out of the White Album sessions on separate occasions (hence Eric Clapton playing on While My Guitar Gently Weeps) and that was over Paul being 'bossy' as they said, "->-bleeped-<-" is the more American term for Paul's behavior then, and continuing to this day. Paul wanted to make another movie and had even signed papers, the other three did not, hence Let It Be, a third-rate 'documentary' that fulfilled the contract so Paul didn't get sued to hell and back, but it's obvious to watch it that none of them cared by that point. John by that point wanted out, he was getting death threats on a constant basis, and as he said numerous times he had other things he wanted to do that the rest did not (and that went for all three of them, George in particular) and it wasn't possible to like make more money from the Beatles as they had all made more then they could ever spend as it was. It was really Paul who when he sued the other three to get total control of the group and it's finances that ended it.
So it wasn't some broad (and Linda was much more disliked than Yoko by the others), it was, as it always is in business, money - and not just the money, really the CONTROL of the money.
What Tekla said.
It's true, if it's any consolation: only gay men talk explicitly about sex. Straight guys don't come even close to the level of detail that women do, and the vast majority of what they do say is lies and macho posturing about past encounters. 99% of the stuff guys don't want you to know has nothing whatsoever to do with you or any other woman who exists outside of their heads.
On parenting specifically, it's nothing special, usually falls into one of two categories: (a) squeamishness about the birth process and related stuff, or (b) stories about ridiculous and idiotic things the dads did while taking care of their kids and the hilarious ways they found to hide the damage from their wives (or the hilarious ways their wives reacted when they found out). It's harmless stuff, but you do not want to know the specifics. Understand that things said between guys over beer are almost exclusively said in joke format and embellished heavily for entertainment value - this including descriptions of their wives.
What Tekla and Kyril said.
And now that I no longer have to pretend to be a guy, I can tell you that a big part of the guy code is not telling the women. That aspect is often more important than anything that gets said, maybe because the women might ridicule them and that would not be good. (Do not - I repeat: do not - ridicule your guys, girls.) It's a circling of the wagons kind of thing. I've got your back, man.
- Kate
Quote from: K8 on June 21, 2010, 07:44:52 AM
What Tekla and Kyril said.
And now that I no longer have to pretend to be a guy, I can tell you that a big part of the guy code is not telling the women. That aspect is often more important than anything that gets said, maybe because the women might ridicule them and that would not be good. (Do not - I repeat: do not - ridicule your guys, girls.) It's a circling of the wagons kind of thing. I've got your back, man.
- Kate
Great! - so as a member of both groups, when I'm at the other group I can't tell myself then :P :laugh:
It's all good fun!
Oh - and for those who correctly pointed out that I didn't include much about parenting that's because I've never been in the "Dads" club. Alison has, long before we met, but now she won't tell me! ;) Postop I have fostered, but that only got me an associate membership of the Mums club... so I really don't know what men say about parenting. :D
It was only exciting because for the first time in my life I was one of the boys. I don't need to break the guy code to let you know what went on. If anyone here was/is married with kids, you already know. It was funny because it was exactly what I expected my ex-h was doing with the guys, and I was right.
OTOH most of the parenting things I could relate to, but most of them were parents of kids under 7. Mine are far older than that. I'm so glad to be past the diapers and bedtime thingy.
Jay
Quote from: K8 on June 21, 2010, 07:44:52 AM(Do not - I repeat: do not - ridicule your guys, girls.)
Don't even say anything that only the whiniest, most sensitive, apron-string-entangled third-grade crybaby would construe as ridicule...::)
guy code is not telling the women
What happens backstage, stays backstage!
Sign in my office, left to me and my minions by my predecessor, circa 1999
What happens on tour, stays on tour, there's a reason we don't bring the wives/GF
My first tour manager on my first tour, circa 1973
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas
The Rat Pack, the originals, and still the best. Circa, the late 1950s
And somewhere on some parchment I'm sure are the words - in Latin no doubt - what happens on the Crusade, stays on the Crusade
Quote from: kyril on June 20, 2010, 09:38:01 PM
Understand that things said between guys over beer are almost exclusively said in joke format and embellished heavily for entertainment value - this including descriptions of their wives.
Descriptions of their Wives, eekkk probably discussing butts, boobs and legs and heavens knows what else, ugh you where right the first time Kyril, I really don't want to know the gritty details, whats being said about me and the other Wives, thankfully its mostly just silly stupid macho fun.
p
I've never, not tour, not in the shop, or construction site, or faculity club been anywhere were anyone talking much of anything about wives - theirs or others - was tollerated. They are, like daughters, off the table.
Yeah, I think you got the wrong idea about "descriptions of their wives." Bodies and body parts and sexual activity are off the table. Funny stories, however, are not.
Quote from: kyril on June 22, 2010, 12:32:32 AM
Yeah, I think you got the wrong idea about "descriptions of their wives." Bodies and body parts and sexual activity are off the table. Funny stories, however, are not.
I miss understood Kyril, got my knickers in a twist, I understand, thank you.
p