Ive always been a chameleon. able to slip into just about any social group...but here's the thing.
it never lasts. there always comes a point where i go.."still...nothing and no one that i can totally click with.."
its like almost beyond just gender dysphoria...its like...corporeal existence dysphoria. ??? least that's the best way i can describe it....and it doesnt exactly upset me...its more like a general..blah feeling. a sense of being forced to resign myself to something subpar. Im not unhappy with it..but im not happy with it either. and its not that im suicidal...far from it...i just dont want a body at all. i LOVE life..i just dont want to be tied down to this body. I want to be like the girl in that anime..Ghost in the shell...in the movie where she becomes..ascended i guess would be a good word for it. i want to be able to drift in the stars, mist through the jungles as dew on the back of a panther, dance with quantum particles, go swimming in a black hole, speed through the ether of the internet absorbing all the thoughts of mankind.
i feel like an observer..something set apart. i laugh and love and live within this context of flesh and blood but it is FRACKING NOT DAGNABBIT ENOUGH.
its not unease. its not hatred of myself. myself...my TRUE self of fire and electricity and photons is so beautiful its blinding. i ADORE my friends, my child. I even adore the hardships and pain. its all fascinating...
gah! i dont know what im even saying...*sigh*
Your not alone, then I grew up and reality set in.
reality is here. its just...not exciting.
i wanna be a space ghost lol.
ill settle for scientist though. and maybe "world's coolest parent".
Post Merge: June 12, 2010, 03:17:29 PM
what do you mean "reality set in"??
You are most certainly not alone.
I too am a chameleon. Unlike you I have chosen a group which, though it is not an exact match, I am happy to adopt as my own, namely the geek girls. Even so I admit that I do not feel entirely defined by that and I own the exact same feeling of unworldliness that you so beautifully describe
I suppose the difference between us is a bit like the glass half full vs half empty debate. You see the things which don't fit (the half empty) and feel sad about them I choose to concentrate on the things which do fit (the half full) so I am happy.
I also know that I do not truly belong in any humanly defined group, but I am happy to gratefully accept the hospitality of my chosen group whilst I need to exist in this physical plane.
But ultimately I too look forward to a future life spent roaming among the stars.
Quote from: rejennyrated on June 12, 2010, 03:28:39 PM
You are most certainly not alone.
I too am a chameleon. Unlike you I have chosen a group which, though it is not an exact match, I am happy to adopt as my own, namely the geek girls. Even so I admit that I do not feel entirely defined by that and I own the exact same feeling of unworldliness that you so beautifully describe
I suppose the difference between us is a bit like the glass half full vs half empty debate. You see the things which don't fit (the half empty) and feel sad about them I choose to concentrate on the things which do fit (the half full) so I am happy.
I also know that I do not truly belong in any humanly defined group, but I am happy to gratefully accept the hospitality of my chosen group whilst I need to exist in this physical plane.
But ultimately I too look forward to a future life spent roaming among the stars.
but what do you do if there's no change you can make to fix it? like it seems like you picked the best fit and stuck with it.
Im a dog nerd, mechanic, fiber artist, writer, hunter....all things that totally dont have anything to do with connecting to people...Im connected to animals and things. I have a pet raccoon. I found her as a baby. her ma got hit by a car with near due unborn babies. her head got smashed. her body was fine. i saw her belly moving. i cut her open out of curiousity and pulled the babies out. i bottle fed them and let all but the little runt with the deformed leg go. i dont know why i told you that. sort of random
i spend more time with the wolves in the carnivore preserve than with my own species.
i fell in love once. he was a total disaster and i loved him for his disastrousness. because it was new.
i dont know..just ranting like a looney babbling some gobbledegook...mostly because if i think about it too much Ill blow up.
.............. :icon_woowoo: :icon_wave-nerd: :icon_omfg:
Post Merge: June 12, 2010, 04:04:18 PM
this is not a pissed off vent.
its just a dump of a lot of stuff ive kept under wraps. buried so far down that i didnt even know about it.
im happy..im just not happy enough. I do nothing by halves. and i do ridiculous things that i think come from the fact that im so disconnected with all the human forms around me.
if there was just ONE. just ONE person like me IN REAL LIFE. someone i could spend time with doing things...
how do you meet other andros??? ??? ??? like...how do you go about meeting them face to face...???
Hey it's ok to be otherworldly...I'm still trying to find a doorway from this mundane world into the world as a truly see it. Embrace who you are, you don't have to fit into a neat little box to be happy as yourself.
I know what you mean, I have felt that way myself, but I don't think it's a gender issue as such, it's to do with how connected you feel to your body. I suppose it's natural for people to be frustrated by the physical limits of their bodies, being blessed with imagination, but it's what you do with with what you've got that counts. I think pretty much everyone gets this feeling at some point, some less than others. I really do know what you mean, sometimes it's as if I'm viewing my life from outside a bubble (a lot of my dreams incude me in this perspective, too), doing things purely for the new sensations it will bring, or I'll look over a landscape and nearly give in to the impulse to take off and fly over it before I conciously remember that I can't. As I said, I reckon this happens to a lot of people.
I have felt a lot less like that as I've started to try and take control of my life, make my own decisions and all that. I found this feeling of detatchedness got me the worst when I felt like I was just caught up in the machine of society, like my next step was always obvious. Now, this next bit is going to sound odd, but I found it quite useful to see my body as being like a mech (for all you non-anime-geeks, that's a giant humanoid robot piloted by humans) that I (my real self) controlled. No, that wasn't me, but I was responsible for it's upkeep, how it looked, and I was the sole person responsible for making decisions that it could carry out. Over time, the body and the self became much more integrated and I feel more real now. :P Now, having wierded-out most members of the forum...
Find people you can talk about this with. It sound like you're after meeting new people anyway, and so maybe getting talking about this in real life would help relieve some of your feelings of isolation. Even just spending more time with people in general might help. Join an evening class, a sports team, volunteering, whatever floats your boat. Failing this, find a councillor you can talk about it to. I'm no expert on how to cope with this, so they may have some better strategies.
The way I see it is I've only got this body for the amount of time I'm on this earth, and so you have to enjoy the sensations it gives you while it can. It's OK to be wild and free with the animals, or the stars, or the grass and trees, let go of the human facade for a little while sometimes. I'm happy with that.
Quote from: Hauser on June 12, 2010, 03:49:44 PM
but what do you do if there's no change you can make to fix it? like it seems like you picked the best fit and stuck with it.
Im a dog nerd, mechanic, fiber artist, writer, hunter....all things that totally dont have anything to do with connecting to people...Im connected to animals and things. I have a pet raccoon. I found her as a baby. her ma got hit by a car with near due unborn babies. her head got smashed. her body was fine. i saw her belly moving. i cut her open out of curiousity and pulled the babies out. i bottle fed them and let all but the little runt with the deformed leg go. i dont know why i told you that. sort of random
i spend more time with the wolves in the carnivore preserve than with my own species.
i fell in love once. he was a total disaster and i loved him for his disastrousness. because it was new.
i dont know..just ranting like a looney babbling some gobbledegook...mostly because if i think about it too much Ill blow up.
.............. :icon_woowoo: :icon_wave-nerd: :icon_omfg:
Post Merge: June 12, 2010, 01:04:18 PM
this is not a pissed off vent.
its just a dump of a lot of stuff ive kept under wraps. buried so far down that i didnt even know about it.
im happy..im just not happy enough. I do nothing by halves. and i do ridiculous things that i think come from the fact that im so disconnected with all the human forms around me.
if there was just ONE. just ONE person like me IN REAL LIFE. someone i could spend time with doing things...
how do you meet other andros??? ??? ??? like...how do you go about meeting them face to face...???
We find each other like magnets. Trust me on this.
I have a like minded partner - we are both female (both having transitioned to get there) which is not quite what I had in mind, but it seems fate has a sense of humour. On a spiritual and emotional level we are so meant to be together and our union has lasted for 22 years so clearly fate knew what it did when it placed us together even if I doubted it.
You mention writing - that alone connects you to other people if you do it right. A love of animals and nature too connects you at very least to the physical world for as long as you remain here.
In fact all of the things you mention can connect you to people and the world if you want them to.
Yes you are darned right I picked the best fit and stuck with it, because that is what we must all do to survive in this world.
To explain this let me borrow a concept from the books that I am writing, although like everyone I write what I know. An angel is a creature of perfection and absolutes. A human is a creature of limitations and compromise. Take one and place it in the world of the other and the result is stress and anxt. Dysphoria in fact. To survive the one must, at least temporarily, learn to adapt to the world of the other. They must become a chameleon learning to pass unseen in the midst of those unlike themselves, taking what emotional support and companionship they can find. The strange thing is that when you start to try to do that you find that fate placed you in the orbit of others like yourself and suddenly you are no longer as alone as you thought.
That precisely is what my first book is about.
There is more than one like you. To meet them all you need to do is use your intuition and then reach out your hand, to touch them. They are all around you feeling as lonely and frightened as you do, because like you they hide feeling that there is no one around them who would understand.
Truth is fate will draw you together if you will only trust enough to let it do so.
Quote from: Fenrir on June 12, 2010, 05:01:10 PMNow, this next bit is going to sound odd, but I found it quite useful to see my body as being like a mech (for all you non-anime-geeks, that's a giant humanoid robot piloted by humans) that I (my real self) controlled. No, that wasn't me, but I was responsible for it's upkeep, how it looked, and I was the sole person responsible for making decisions that it could carry out. Over time, the body and the self became much more integrated and I feel more real now. :P Now, having wierded-out most members of the forum...
That's an awesome way of describing it and dealing with it.
I think a lot of people feel very detached from this world and people around them...I know I've always felt like I was just visiting, but jenny is right you will find kindred spirits who understand. You kind of have to come to the realisation that even if you feel like you are perpetually just visiting, that you can still interact with the world around you.
Sometimes I walk through the day with a dizzy headache and realize that it's caused because I'm having a multidimensional day...
This is why we have an imagination I guess, but the truth is you won't be roaming the stars and howling at the moon. Unless you're insane.
Reality is you're a human being, that needs to fit within societal measures, and what you are is who you are. You can be transgendered, gay, gothic, feminine, weird, insane, and that's fine.
Are you insane, then that's fine too.
Quote from: Megan on June 13, 2010, 08:17:40 PM
This is why we have an imagination I guess, but the truth is you won't be roaming the stars and howling at the moon. Unless you're insane.
Reality is you're a human being, that needs to fit within societal measures, and what you are is who you are. You can be transgendered, gay, gothic, feminine, weird, insane, and that's fine.
Are you insane, then that's fine too.
i can too howl at the moon and be perfectly sane doing it. i volunteer at a carnivore preserve in the wolf enclosures. sometimes i howl to get them to howl for the visitors. ;D
anyways...that whole thing was a brain puke. i have them now and again. its where my brain just kinda pukes up my...whatever it is that it pukes up..mental anorexia..
i have more to say but i have to go...will return and add to this post later
Hi Hauser.
It sounds as though what you're describing is what everyone feels. It is a human thing, not an androgyne thing. We ARE a bunch of floating particles. That's science. I'm not sure how this relates to gender.
Quote from: Megan on June 13, 2010, 08:17:40 PM
This is why we have an imagination I guess, but the truth is you won't be roaming the stars and howling at the moon. Unless you're insane.
Reality is you're a human being, that needs to fit within societal measures, and what you are is who you are. You can be transgendered, gay, gothic, feminine, weird, insane, and that's fine.
Are you insane, then that's fine too.
Sorry Megan but I almost violently disagree with this post. I'm not going to take it personally because a single lifetime is rather too short to waste falling out, but it seems to me to represent a falsely restrictive and narrow definition of a "safe" reality, the only alternative to which you seem to acknowlege is insanity.
I reject the implication that I am insane, but I truly believe that "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy".
Having lived 50 years I can tell you with certainty that there really is a lot more to life and a lot more variations in reality than you imagine. Society is merely a convennient construct created by those who control the game to prevent their position being threatened by people who choose to live by different rules and values.
They actually have no moral right to do this other than the power of physical force and the threat of physical sanctions. But being in majority and therefore able to set the rules does not make a viewpoint objectively right or true. Nor indeed does it make it mandatory, or indeed in some instancces even desirable, to fit in with those "societal measures".
That sort of thinking and speech belongs to psychiatrists and therapist who are in reality merely societies mental enforcers designed to ensure that non compliance does not escalate beyond a certain token level. Humanity, as with every species, will act to preserve its own genetic purity, and will thus tend to persecute anyone who either can not or will not comply whether by reason of genetics or merely of mindset. That action is natural, but it is not imbued with any kind of right. It does not give the current definitions and world view any kind of monopoly on absolute truth - if indeed such a concept even exists in this quantum multiverse.
Whole societies can be, and indeed historically have been, SERIOUSLY corporately deluded about the nature of reality for long periods, and sometimes people who were once thought
insane later become recognised as the only ones who saw through the delusion.
Early navigators who believed that the earth was not flat but round were an example of just such a thing, as were many great scientists like Tesla and Einstein both of which were sometimes accused by their peers of insanity.
So I would be careful with using that "I" word if I were you because the truth is you may not know as much as you think! Nor indeed may you always be sure who and/or what you talk to.
Quote from: Nero on June 13, 2010, 11:00:17 PM
Hi Hauser.
It sounds as though what you're describing is what everyone feels. It is a human thing, not an androgyne thing. We ARE a bunch of floating particles. That's science. I'm not sure how this relates to gender.
because I have none. at all. I have biological sex. I have no gender. I have a shapeshifting presentation and i am completely asexual.
everyone feels like it sure...but its complicated by an almost complete lack of concrete identity. Like you have your identity that makes you comfortable enough to make friends and have a relativly normal life rigt.
i have an identity that explodes on people if they get too close. and then they run away. my last relationship partner told me "i cant be with you because YOU dont exist. you change and morph so much i cant keep up with it".
i just kind of exploded here after some tense incident where i ran into that person.
you would think that someone could appreciate a person who can adapt like i do...but no. my creatures appreciate me though.
Quote from: Hauser on June 14, 2010, 04:57:16 AM
you would think that someone could appreciate a person who can adapt like i do...
Trust me Hauser - some of us do get it. You just haven't found us IRL yet. But we are out here , some of us male some female and some neutrois, but whatever our chosen form we DO exist and in bigger numbers than you think.
Heh I was just thinking about that today... about drifting through space. Though I figured I wanted a pet tiger to protect me from aliens, a high tech device that will let me map the universe, and a never ending supply of food and water. Oh, and did I mention my tiger knows how to fetch? So I'll bring a frisbee too :).
Moon frisbee! Then watch the earthrise after you get tired. Hmm I also decided I didn't really want to "fly" through space, more like walk on a magic bridge that appears in front of me while I walk to different galaxies and planets. Yeah.. I think I've thought about this too much haha ^ ^
Quote from: rejennyrated on June 14, 2010, 05:09:39 AM
Trust me Hauser - some of us do get it. You just haven't found us IRL yet. But we are out here , some of us male some female and some neutrois, but whatever our chosen form we DO exist and in bigger numbers than you think.
well IM HERE!! lol. Im pretty sure itll end up ok. Im generally fine i just go through these spells of feeling the big lonely sometimes. most of the time i dont mind it. but sometimes something will come along and remind me. thanks for listening. :)
I get that 'deeper' sense of loneliness - wrote a thread on it earlier. Though really, there's so many more things to focus on than a Nokia-fail.
Also, I dig the GITS reference. :)
I feel this way too- although I've always thought of it as a wall between me and everyone else. Sometimes it's thick and stone, and I can't see or comprehend how people act on the other side, and sometimes it's clear and flexible like plastic wrap. I can see and hear, and even feel heat from the other side, but I'm never really a part of things. I try to imitate what I see on the other side, but the wall is still there.
I guess I just had to look around on my side of the wall for a bit to see that I'm not alone. :)
I can really relate to a lot of stuff on this thread. There is a new agey saying, (not sure who it is originally by) "I am a spritiual being having a human experience"; I see my essentialbeing/spirit as being genderless, I am just inhabiting a male body for a little while, and as it wasn't made-to-measure there are gonna be times it doesn't quite fit properly :)
I used to get a lot of dissociative type feelings, (in part from uneducated use of psychedelics in my teens) and they used to really freak me out. But these days I see them as just another feeling or emotion or mood, they are a welcome reminder of the far-out-ness of existence!
I like this thread! I think I have similar feelings; I would also like to experience consciousness beyond the confines of a human body. We live in a time when this seems to be possible in principle, but is not yet within reach. I have trouble dealing with a lot of the mundane details of my life right now because of thoughts like this, but of course we have to work with what we have.