I always noticed that most guys tend to prefer looking older than younger and it perplexes me. Back before I started transitioning I was one of the few males who actually always wanted to look younger, so I am curious what it is about age that makes males feel more male. And obviously nobody wants to look prepubescent, but most 30+ year-old guys that I've talked to would be offended if you told them that they look like they were in their early-mid twenties even. I think that FtMs might be able to offer a better answer to this question than a genetic guy since they haven't had the luxury of taking their gender for granted. So, what is it about age that appeals to guys aside from the obvious desire to not look like a child?
I barely convinced myself not to buy some Grecian Formula today, so I'm definitely not the guy to respond--at least from my own perspective. But a lot of thirty-ish trans guys still look like teenagers, and that's irritating. They might like it more when they're forty and look thirty.
i know your asking ftm's n all , but i think i might know an answer
the simplest version of it would be this : any person , male or female , slightly and gradually changes in one direction over the years , less feminine , more masculine . for myself , since i was 10 years old i've always hated growing older for different reasons at each stage of my life, but before that (10 yo) i wanted to be older so i'm taken seriously
but after all everyone have different reasons , likes , and dislikes about age
Quote from: eNTROPY on June 12, 2010, 11:18:21 PM
...for myself , since i was 10 years old i've always hated growing older for different reasons at each stage of my life, but before that (10 yo) i wanted to be older so i'm taken seriously
but after all everyone have different reasons , likes , and dislikes about age
Hmm, even before I was a teen I wanted to be younger. I was always upset about my rate of growth even when time seemed to go by 10 times more slowly than it does now. I think it just had to do with knowing what was to come. I was a much more aware child than most. I was the type of kid who only humored my parents when they told me there was a Santa Claus. I always just figured it was something that parents joked about with their kids and never knew that any kids actually believed it until much later in life.
Can't really answer you but I think looking younger than your age regardless of gender is something to be valued. It is something that will always work in your favor as you age even if people are shocked to find out your real age.
I say this because I am on the other side, people assume I am way older than I really am and it feels like my youth and innocence has been stolen from me while people my age still "have it".
Perhaps it's because an older man has a wider selection of women to chose from since it's acceptable for a man to be seen dating a much younger woman, and the older a woman looks, the smaller the pool gets.
It's not so much that we all want to look older, but for each gender there's an "ideal" age that's perceived to have the perfect combination of sex appeal and maturity level. For men, it tends to hover in the late 20s to mid-30s, whereas for women it's the late teens and early 20s. Combining that with the fact that there's significant overlap between features of masculinity and features of age (with respect to bone structure and skin texture, at least) aggravates the pressure on both genders of trans people, but it's felt by cis people too.
I guess most young men don't want to be seen as boys. Whenever I've told a cis guy he looks younger than he is, he's been flattered, except for a few who were in their twenties and who didn't want to be seen as too young, like below the legal drinking age. But my trans friends get tired of being treated like teens when they're much older than they look. So a lot of them resent their youthful appearance.
To get all animal kingdom on you for a second, I think in males age is seen in a sense of virility and dominance. A mature male can rule the roost, provide for the nest and provide healthy offspring. In ladies, youth is seen as the ability to bear plenty of healthy offspring and raise them until they leave the nest.
There was a study that showed guys with just a bit of facial hair were generally seen as more attractive by women because it showed that physical maturity, and something about how we're hardwired to search for an "ideal" mate that promises healthy breeding, yadda yadda yadda. This is also generally why women are overly concerned about keeping their faces free of lines and their hair flawlessly colored, and guys get to be distinguished when their hair turns salt-and-pepper gray and they get a few characteristic wrinkles.
Thought that might bear some relevancy. :P To put it in a less biological perspective, I'd pretty much repeat what Kyril's already said.
Because im 26 and people often question if I'm old enough to drink. I have no problem with looking a couple years younger, but I'd at least like to look like I'm over 21. Most people guess 19-20.
I can't really answer this... I've always looked much younger than I am, and I've never wished it were otherwise. Sure, it gets kinda old when I get the "You'll be glad of it when you're older" because I get it pretty consistantly whenever someone learns my real age, but I guess it's just annoying because I know that it's coming. However, I love the expression people get on their faces when I tell them my age, after they guess about 6 or 7 years off. For me, looking younger than I am is simply a source of amusement. (And I did use it to get the 12 and under kids prices at restaurants while I could.) ;)
However, I have noticed that a surprising (to me) number of female people are attracted to men who are older than them. Sometimes older by 20 years or more. This makes no sense to me, but maybe it's a contributing factor to why some men want to look older?
Well I'm 33 and people always seem to think I'm about 24 or so which doesn't really bother me as I've always looked younger than I am when I started college I just turned 20 and I still looked like I was about 16.
Call me insane, but I can't wait to look older! Mid 30's would be nice ;D (for reference, I'm 26).
I'm sick to death of looking like a teenager. I look too feminine. Age will bring those unambiguous male characteristics I'm after. That and my mental image of myself is usually at least 5 years older than I actually am (I have no idea why... it just is).
I'd like to be finally rid of my acne, I'd like a few character lines, rougher skin, more facial hair, maybe a little grey at the temples. Aesthetically speaking, I simply think I'll look "hotter" with a few more years on.
I'm really digging the "rapid ageing" that's come from the first few months of T. Things are starting to look a little more right (I still look younger than I am - just a bit less so).
For me, it mostly has to deal with finding a mate. If I was 30 and looked 20, that wouldn't do too well for me because I'm not looking to attract a woman who is younger than me. And by the same token, some women might not want to date me because they think I'm far younger than I actually am.
I would just like to fit in with my peers. I look like a young boy. I can't buy cigarettes or alcohol and I even get IDed for energy drinks.
People make small talk and always ask me why I'm not in school, etc.
I just want to look like the person I am.
As males age, their faces masculinize. So if I'm twenty and look like I barely hit puberty, it's a sign that I'm not masculine.
That said, being older for a guy isn't as big a deal as it is for women. Well, depending on the age I guess. Looking to be 30 or so isn't a problem.
Well I'm a teen and I look like a younger teen. I bet I will for a number of years too :eusa_wall: Don't want to be a teenager forever.
I think age and experience should be valued and celebrated in any gender. However, in society today more people are concerned with being young forever. Now you see emo kids trying to look like they're twelve. Apparently looking like an awkward prepubescent individual is somehow appealing and considered attractive. Personally, I don't see it. When I grew up being twelve meant you were stuck in a place where you were too childlike to be taken seriously and your body was too awkward to actually do anything and you sure as hell weren't considered attractive even to other 12-year-olds.
I like getting old. I like looking like I'm getting old. I can't wait to be a grumpy old man yelling at the kids "GET OFF MY LAWN!!! Damn kids listening to your loud music!!!!" And then they'll say "But grandpa... You invited us over!" and I will say "Oh did I? Awww you're getting so big, go inside and grab a cookie."
But I digress...
I think the one person who best explained society's obsession with youth is probably Craig Ferguson-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU1KpMlzPiQ# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU1KpMlzPiQ#)
Quote from: Ayaname on June 12, 2010, 10:57:12 PM
I always noticed that most guys tend to prefer looking older than younger and it perplexes me. Back before I started transitioning I was one of the few males who actually always wanted to look younger, so I am curious what it is about age that makes males feel more male. And obviously nobody wants to look prepubescent, but most 30+ year-old guys that I've talked to would be offended if you told them that they look like they were in their early-mid twenties even. I think that FtMs might be able to offer a better answer to this question than a genetic guy since they haven't had the luxury of taking their gender for granted. So, what is it about age that appeals to guys aside from the obvious desire to not look like a child?
I wonder how much of this is a societal thing. Society, particularly Western, praises and values "wise men". Men gracefully age while women (and the whole industry surrounding this) are lead towards a fountain of youth. Rather than glorifying the age we're in and all it has to offer we lead by the Hollywood/perfect image of what women/men should be.
Quote from: Osiris on June 13, 2010, 02:06:14 PMNow you see emo kids trying to look like they're twelve. Apparently looking like an awkward prepubescent individual is somehow appealing and considered attractive. Personally, I don't see it. When I grew up being twelve meant you were stuck in a place where you were too childlike to be taken seriously and your body was too awkward to actually do anything and you sure as hell weren't considered attractive even to other 12-year-olds.
Perhaps this is an inevitable consequence of something we've been doing for a few decades now: marketing skinny twelve-year-old fashion models who are made up to look as steamy and sexy as possible (and it's an impossible goal for normal grown women to try to look like that).
I don't mind looking young. It bothers me when people talk down to me because of it, but if I look like a teenager well into my thirties then I'd be glad. Besides, I'm beginning to find it funny when I get carded for things. The cashier asks for my ID in that "what-are-you-doing-kiddo" voice, I triumphantly present it (read it and weep, I think to myself,) and I watch for the subtle astonishment on their faces. It gives me mildly sadistic glee.
It could be that I'm making up for the atrocious experience of my mid- to late-teens. It could also be because I enjoy shocking people, or a manifestation of feeling like I have no internal age. Maybe it's all three or more. Granted, if I looked my chronological age (which is twenty-one) and not younger or older that would be fine, but I don't and so I make the most of it.
Well, I'm in my mid-thirties and have always looked younger than I am. Even now I still look younger but have never been confused for being a teenager/early 20's (except maybe one time). I would be mad if I was seen as a teenager because I'm way past that point- in age and experience- and don't want to be held up to those expectations (or lack there-of). Being seen as mid-20's and up I don't mind.
For a little while it sort of drove me nuts that a lot of men in my group--most of them are fifty and up, with a few in their forties--assumed that I was under thirty. So they would say things like, "You wouldn't remember this, but..." and "As you get into middle age, you'll find..." A lot of them assumed that I was still in school...you get the picture.
It was weird because I'm not very old in gay life, at least in terms of real experience, and in my head I've always been stuck in adolescence, and now I'm going through a real adolescence (of sorts). So I felt...chronologically challenged, but not in the way that most people mean when they jokingly say that. I'm still struggling with this. I can speak my age out loud, and I know I have the life experience that goes with that age, but I also want to disavow much of that experience and start over...and in a way, I am starting over, yet I'm middle-aged. I like being seen as younger than I am, but I resent it when people think I lack life experience...what a mess.
Quote from: SilverFang on June 13, 2010, 12:43:40 PM
Well I'm a teen and I look like a younger teen. I bet I will for a number of years too :eusa_wall: Don't want to be a teenager forever.
I'd guess based on you're avatar that you are 19-20 and far past puberty, I don't really see anything that says young teen boy.
Quote from: uni on June 13, 2010, 05:37:34 PMI'd guess based on you're avatar that you are 19-20 and far past puberty, I don't really see anything that says young teen boy.
Could be a "whole body" thing. If he's short and slight (I can't tell from the avatar), his body can add to people's impression that he is still a boy. Not to mention that his voice, if it isn't very deep, might imply that he's a fourteen-year-old with a delayed puberty.
I don't really want to look older...just looking my age would be nice. I can still get on trains and busses for child fare and I'm 21.
QuoteI like being seen as younger than I am, but I resent it when people think I lack life experience...what a mess.
Ditto and I have had some assume I'm not old enough to remmeber something when I am actually older than they.
QuoteI would just like to fit in with my peers. I look like a young boy. I can't buy cigarettes or alcohol and I even get IDed for energy drinks.
People make small talk and always ask me why I'm not in school, etc.
I just want to look like the person I am.
Ryan makes a completely valid point. Even thought I've been on T for years, my face is as masculine as it'll get along with everything else. Only in the last year could I pass for being over 18 and that's with facial hair.
It isn't so much the typical beard and wrinkles older I'd like to look, but sometimes I feel like a little boy bodily as my shoulders are not as wide as I'd like and I feel dainty in comparison to some other XY men. Ew, dainty. I hate that feeling.
Hell, more years of socially acceptable[or so they think!] trick-or-treating... Whats not to love?