Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transgender talk => Topic started by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 12:21:31 AM

Title: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 12:21:31 AM
I've been trying to figure out the differences are in transphobia and cisgenderism (or is it cissexism!?). Are they just one of the same for the most part?
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 12:30:03 AM
Hmm...alright. So let's say that hypothetically a trans woman with a set binary identity were to say negative things about trans folks that aren't so binary in their identities (Ex: gender queer, androgyne, two spirit) that would be an example of cisgenderism.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 12:50:12 AM
Oh jeebuz...too many words and confusion. In my hypothetical consider the trans woman more so as being a woman with a trans history...meaning-gosh, I really don't want to phrase this in a way that would be taken as offensive because I know I would be offended by this phrasing-this person has transitioned as much as a person could physically(ex, facial feminization, implants, bottom surgery, hair removal, E...not sure what else there is) legally (name change and gender change on whatever gender can be changed on). Maybe she is experiencing cis-privilage since she is read as cis?
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 12:59:35 AM
Oh jeebuz...the words of Audre Lorde are coming to mind.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Bones on June 21, 2010, 01:24:10 AM
I agree with Vexing. I'd call it hypocrisy...no matter how much surgery, hormones we take...we will always and forever be transgendered. I really really hope I never start behaving like this if I ever can go through a complete transition.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 02:10:04 AM
You'd have to either "attack" me or sign a contract stating that you're consenting to being shot.

It would have to be very official.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Asfsd4214 on June 21, 2010, 03:26:51 AM
Quote from: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 12:50:12 AM
Oh jeebuz...too many words and confusion.

That was my first impression too. Ugh, do we really need so MANY freaken words!

And to think I miss when I could consider sex and gender the same, let alone cisgendertransphobianisms.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 03:28:28 AM
Quote from: Ashley4214 on June 21, 2010, 03:26:51 AM
That was my first impression too. Ugh, do we really need so MANY freaken words!

And to think I miss when I could consider sex and gender the same, let alone cisgendertransphobianisms.
We do need the words and I am very glad that sex and gender are not considered the same.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: no_id on June 21, 2010, 08:08:00 AM
I usually just stick with the term 'moron' since it can be applied to so many, lovely situations.  8)

On a serious note, I think Vexing set a good one with 'binarism' although that kind of reaction seems more like a phobia. 'abinaryphobia' is a mouthful though...
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Asfsd4214 on June 21, 2010, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 03:28:28 AM
We do need the words and I am very glad that sex and gender are not considered the same.

They (as in the meaning of the words) are considered the same. Just not by most members of the trans community.

I don't know anyone (including my trans friend) who care to differentiate, I only do it here to be polite.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Rock_chick on June 21, 2010, 04:18:11 PM
Quote from: no_id on June 21, 2010, 08:08:00 AM
I usually just stick with the term 'moron' since it can be applied to so many, lovely situations.  8)


Moron is def a word of many situations.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 04:22:02 PM
Quote from: Ashley4214 on June 21, 2010, 03:50:03 PM
They (as in the meaning of the words) are considered the same. Just not by most members of the trans community.

I don't know anyone (including my trans friend) who care to differentiate, I only do it here to be polite.
I disagree and the majority of people I know can tell the difference and actively use them differently.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Asfsd4214 on June 21, 2010, 06:19:12 PM
Quote from: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 04:22:02 PM
I disagree and the majority of people I know can tell the difference and actively use them differently.

Would the majority of people you know happen to be people already heavily involved in LGBT issues or be people you have already preexplained the difference too?  ::)
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 06:21:28 PM
Quote from: Ashley4214 on June 21, 2010, 06:19:12 PM
Would the majority of people you know happen to be people already heavily involved in LGBT issues or be people you have already preexplained the difference too?  ::)
Some are heavily involved, some are slightly involved, others are just aware.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Asfsd4214 on June 21, 2010, 06:23:14 PM
Quote from: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 06:21:28 PM
Some are heavily involved, some are slightly involved, others are just aware.

Right, I know the difference is used heavily in most things LGBT, but from what I've seen, the vaaaast majority of people who are not L G B or T... consider them the same.

Personally, when I'm not around anyone who's LGBT, I do too. It just seems like nitpicking to me.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: Ashley4214 on June 21, 2010, 06:23:14 PM
Right, I know the difference is used heavily in most things LGBT, but from what I've seen, the vaaaast majority of people who are not L G B or T... consider them the same.

Personally, when I'm not around anyone who's LGBT, I do too. It just seems like nitpicking to me.
Doesn't seem like that to me.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Asfsd4214 on June 21, 2010, 10:45:08 PM
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on June 21, 2010, 06:38:09 PM
Whaaaaaaaat?

What? lol

Sorry I just don't put a lot of value in labels and categories. Making more of them isn't being diverse, it's just confusing IMO.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Asfsd4214 on June 21, 2010, 11:46:39 PM
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on June 21, 2010, 10:48:56 PM
Gender and sex are very different things.

The words are... to you, I don't make a distinction personally.

Meaning of words is only truely defined by how society uses them at any given time.

As I said, it seems like nitpicking to me to worry about the obscure difference that not everyone even recognises.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: James-Alen on June 22, 2010, 12:08:08 AM
Gender is in your mind and Sex is in your body. You need both to be homeostatic and emotionally well (a stable mind and body). While different, they play off of one another. trying to segregate them seems pointless.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Kristyn on June 22, 2010, 01:45:27 PM
Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on June 21, 2010, 12:56:32 AM
For sure; I definitely think that completely passing, woodworked/stealth people get a healthy dose of cis privilege.

What would some examples of cis privilege be?  Just trying to get a better understanding
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: Nygeel on June 22, 2010, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: Kristyn on June 22, 2010, 01:45:27 PM
What would some examples of cis privilege be?  Just trying to get a better understanding
Some examples would be in the work place because if you're trans an employer can fire you for that, medical care, confidence that everybody will use the right pronouns, not being evicted or denied food, not being questioned about genitals...just all the things cisgender people take for granted that we have trouble with.
Title: Re: Transphobia vs Cisgenderism (Cissexism?)
Post by: RebeccaFog on June 22, 2010, 07:00:04 PM
Quote from: Nygeel on June 21, 2010, 12:30:03 AM
Hmm...alright. So let's say that hypothetically a trans woman with a set binary identity were to say negative things about trans folks that aren't so binary in their identities (Ex: gender queer, androgyne, two spirit) that would be an example of cisgenderism.

In my opinion, it's an example of someone being a jerk.   >:-)

Genderqueerphobic

I think sometimes a word in general use will work. Words such as 'moron', Jerk', or phrases like 'stuck up' can work. Or, several really good words might be 'bigoted' or 'intolerant' or 'unenlightened'. These words capture the spirit of the attitude while leaving 'isms' out of it.

Do I win?