My girlfriend, Elaine, wants to start trying to pass in public. But.. neither of us know where to start :(
She recently started shaving, and unfortunately she is very hairy with sensitive skin so... nasty razor burn. She's been getting different advice from everyone, but I think that y'all would know better than the girls at my college, as they don't have to deal with male hair. Right now she shaves with one of those lady razors (it's a nice brand, I bought it for her, but I can't remember the name.) and it works pretty well, but how do you prevent razor burn? She has tried lotioning up like nobody's business, which works kinda, but it's not the end all be all.
Is there another low cost method you would suggest for hair removal? She's tried Veet and Nair and those kinda work but we basically use a whole bottle in one go. she needs to do her whole body and it's just a horrible mess... Waxing seems too expensive, we're really poor because I'm in college and she's dealing with social anxiety so is having problems getting a job. I've looked at epilators but I don't know which one to get. Suggestions on those would be great.
Next is how to dress.. She is 21 and very girly IMO. She doesn't know what style she wants, and all she has right now is my hand-me-down shirts (Which are too small) and some pants that we could afford at thrift stores. So basically she is dressing like a 14 year-old. Yikes~ My question here is where do we start when shopping for her? Building up an entire wardrobe is hell for us, it's taken me a whole year just to do mine and it's easier for me because guy clothes are simple. (Jeans and T-shirts, baby!) Also, what styles work best with someone with very little curvature, enhancing and whatnot.
Third problem, BREASTS. Just thinking about buying breastforms makes my wallet hurt ;_; I know of the birdseed and pantyhose fix, but is it really a long-term fix? I can't see us being able to afford breastforms for a long time.. I've also heard of using those enhancers/cup size increaser thingies to make the birdseed fix look more realistically shaped. Is that worth it?
Makeup is something neither of us know anything about. Before I came out as trans I just wore eyeliner so.. Yeah my advice is pretty awful :c Also she has a hard time getting motivated to pretty herself up. I have a feeling that she thinks it's useless and futile.
And then there's the kicker. Coming out. She wants to start passing in my college where we frequently hang out and have many friends. She knows they're okay with me because several know and those who don't would probably be fine with it too. But actually going and doing it is the problem. Should we wait until she is ready to pass, or should we tell them now? Should I enforce those who already know to call her by the correct pronouns, or is that asking too much, I mean she's not passing right now or anything.
Her parents also know, but they don't try to refer to her correctly even though they support her 100% and call me he already and stuff. I know it's different because I'm not their kid, but still. Should we tell them to refer to her correctly too?
And lastly, I need someone to back me up on something. Elaine is pretty, in my eyes. And in our friend Mike's too. She's not too fem in the face, she has a thick nose, but very round eyes and a soft jawline and chin.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2F2v1n8t2.jpg&hash=dc6757cb4ad9c66365edf0c9a637f2ef2611c18f)
This is a picture I took of her for my photography class, which I photoshoped out her facial hair and thinned her eyebrows because this was before she started getting into plucking. Would you agree with me that if she started wearing makeup that she would pass fairly successfully? Also, do you think she should get bangs? She has a high forehead and I think that like side-swept bangs would help.
WOAH huge post! Thanks in advance for any help, I'd have her post this herself but she keeps saying that she will but never actually does.. Not very much of a go getter :P
Where to start? It's lovely that she has you to help her, that's the first thing!
Norelco makes a very nice electric razor with 3 rotary heads. You won't get as close a shave with an electric, unless you work over a patch over and over while pulling the skin taut, but there's less chance of razor burns.
The sad truth is that most of the accessories she will need are not cheap! She can probably find a few cute tops or whatever at a thrift store. I would suggest jeans and cute tops and, for now, don't worry about the breast forms. There are plenty of flat-chested women in the world! (As an old song says, "It's not the meat, it's the motion.")
Next suggestion: Go around to some coffee shops or wherever your peeps are hanging, and spend a few days studying how the girls dress. Elaine will be able to pick up lots of ideas. Like, you can wear really boring thong sandals and if you have toenail polish on, you'll look cute.
It's never useless or futile to make an effort to look the way you want to look! Most genetic females have body issues too, so please tell Elaine to work on looking her personal best and not worry about the things she can't change.
...well, the body hair thing could be something to change. I don't have much experience in that area, as my body hair distribution was 90% female to begin with.
Elaine faces some complex challenges, but thousands of people have walked through the challenges and come out the other side, stronger and happier. Hey, you have Internet access, right? Tell her to go on YouTube and check out some vids by Jesslyngirl87 or KimberATL or briannarose99. There are plenty of TG girls Elaine's age talking in very honest and open terms about what they have gone through and are going through. Encourage her to watch a big bunch of them. (You do have to sort of screen out the kinky ones. Just click past them and go on.)
Please keep us posted. We're here to help!
Hugs....
*** Jenna ***
Thank you so much for the quick reply! I'll link her to this asap. I've told her many times to look up stuff on youtube, maybe now she finally will, having some people to start with.
She said to me once, I think, that she has used an electric razor before and didn't like it. I can't remember if it didn't work for her, or if it irritated her skin, or what. I'll have to ask her.
Thanks again!
I'm not sure about what kind of advice I could give on the other parts, but I may be able to offer some for the shaving part. My face is really easily chopped up by a razor, so it took a bit to find a good combination.
It's men's shaving cream (scent etc) unfortunately, but I found that the Gillette Fusion Hydragel Ultra Sensitive shaving gel works wonderfully on my face, it's not nearly as brutal as using some of the other products, and I got less cuts and razor burn using it. If I recall it's like $3.75 a can or something, but the 7 oz. can lasts a pretty long time. As far as razor goes, Gillette Fusion by far has the closest shave of any I've used, but it's more likely to cut too in the process, and it's also expensive. Another decent one I found was the Schick Quattro Titanium razor, the blades last a long time and it's not super expensive, while getting a close shave without causing much burn (in my experience anyway).
I know they're all men's razor products :-\, but I thought I'd throw these out there, I hope it can help in some way!
Aww, she's cute. How could she not pass with features like those. And that's up close and fluorescent lighting and everything.
Findingreason, she's using the Barbasol sensitive shaving cream right now, seems to work but not enough. We'll give what you suggested a shot. As for the razors, if they won't cost me an arm and a leg, I'll get it for her lol! I know of some where the replacement blades are like twenty dollars.. Jeez. I'll definitely check out the Shick Quattro Titanium one, I like the 'not super expensive' and 'without causing too much burn' parts haha~
Summerfall, that's what I keep trying to tell her! She's not as manly as she thinks she is. I am always doing those online makeup tryout thingies with pictures of her, to prove that she's pretty lol.
For shaving, have to suggest an electric rasor.
There are some that come with hair trimers, often as attachments. These are useful for cutting long hair before using the foil.
The main thing to remember about these is to clean them after. They get clogged up easily. But can be cleaned in a few secs using the suppied brush.
As for the rest, it's really a matter of self confidence and experiment. Makeup works well, provided it isn't over done.
Breasts are, in my own experience, best done with some padding. I used cotton wool.
She looks passable. She definetely could pass with some makeup. Is she working on her voice?
Quote from: Kyle XD on June 26, 2010, 05:46:31 PM
She looks passable. She definetely could pass with some makeup. Is she working on her voice?
She has a pretty high voice to begin with, but she does have work to do with it, smoothing it out without becoming falsetto or whispery. She's capable of a feminine voice, but she doesn't believe me when I say so :/ But I don't know how often she works on it or if she does.
Try the Soleil by Bic for shaving. Use noxzema for a shave creme. I use a Braun 7500 electric followed by this very razor.
For breast forms, use rice/bird seed till she ether develops her own, aka HRT, or till you can afford forms.
Body hair, use Nail for the first go, then use the razor above.
As for a style, she need to go to the mall and just observe.
By the way, she is cute.
What product by Noxzema? I googled them but found nothing specifically for shaving...
Regular good old fashion noxzema, in the blue jar. They also make a Hair minimizing gel.
Hi Morgan
Reading your post shows how much you care for Elaine and helping her to achieve her goals are two of the most important things that one can do in your situation. There is so much that you have said and I will suggest a couple things that may help you out and others will fill in the rest.
Makeup and Clothes.Clothes need to be Elaine's choice and what has been suggested is for Elaine to go out and see what she likes and buy accordingly. As for makeup just buy some simple items, like lipstick blush, eye shadow, mascara and foundation, practice and practice using the Internet as your source of information on how to do it, along with advice from very close friends.
Breast formsWhen I started my change 21 years ago there was not a lot of information around on what type of breasts that I could use and it is so long ago I do not remember what other options I did considered in my case. I had never heard of birdseed and panty hose, I was vaguely aware of breast prothesis for women who had mastectomies, try and get those was next to impossible considering the time and where I lived. Today you have the Internet to search for a solution that will make Elaine happy and comfortable.
The simplest and the cheapest solution to my problem was to get two sponges, rectangular in shape about the size of a normal brick. Using a pair of scissors I cut and shaped my breast implants. How long did I use these breast forms for? At least 6 months from the time I left my family and friends.
The next couple of options are buying them ($100US) or making them, which can be found
here (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/breast/breastform.html) and other advice. Use the following search words in Google to help you find other sources (How breast forms are made).
I was not really concerned about how they should look, but how people saw me expecting to see me with big breasts. Until one day I forget to put my breast forms in (I was working full time by this stage) and guess what? Nobody even noticed, when the subject of breast size came up I would sometimes say, I have always been a small size. Anyway after forgetting to put my 'breasts' in from then on I started using them less and less, until one day I never used them again.
So use sponge breasts along with appropriate clothing and virtually nobody will notice any thing amiss.
Body HairFind a beauty therapy place and when you can afford it, have the body hair removed professionally. This way it is less time consuming and less messy than doing it at home. When the hair is growing back or present again wear appropriate clothing. Nobody is going to see the body hair if clothes are covering it up. If Elaine is wearing a skirt, then shaving or waxing the legs can be done at home if you wish. Extensive hair removal (electrolysis or laser) can come later when Elaine has a job and passing.
Facial hairTo pass it is necessary to concentrate on the face as passing is primarily from the face up. Only electrolysis, voice and the face are the most important, however Elaine's face is very pretty, so that is not an issue. I would assume that Elaine is practising with her voice and there are plenty of free resources on the internet to achieve her feminine voice, so again that is not the concern. Her facial hair would be the most pressing problem. Her long hair and maybe even longer with your suggestion of banges, would help immensely in this area.
I would suggest a three pronged attack:
- Start hormones, this will help soften the facial features of Elaine's face and make it more feminine.
- Wax the facial hair off using wax that can be used again and again an old saucepan can be used in this case. The hairs that are pulled out can filtered with a sieve. If the face is just waxed it would allow Elaine to go out and gain the confidence that she needs. I have no doubt that if her face was free from hair, she would pass without a doubt. Doing it this way would also lessen the amount of time shaving the face would be involved.
- Finally, do what ever it takes to concentrate on having the facial hair removed with Electrolysis.
Some other things that Elaine would need to consider would be to see a therapist to get the hormones that she needs (if that is what shes wants to do) and to help her gain confidence to go out in the world and get a job, so that she can be who she wants to be.
We are here to help wherever we can, we can only offer you suggestions or advice and it is ultimately up to you to decide how you use what has been suggested.
Take care and all the best for the future, you can pm me if you wish.
Kindest regards
Sarah B
Quote from: Morgan on June 26, 2010, 05:01:36 PM
Findingreason, she's using the Barbasol sensitive shaving cream right now, seems to work but not enough. We'll give what you suggested a shot. As for the razors, if they won't cost me an arm and a leg, I'll get it for her lol! I know of some where the replacement blades are like twenty dollars.. Jeez. I'll definitely check out the Shick Quattro Titanium one, I like the 'not super expensive' and 'without causing too much burn' parts haha~
Summerfall, that's what I keep trying to tell her! She's not as manly as she thinks she is. I am always doing those online makeup tryout thingies with pictures of her, to prove that she's pretty lol.
Findingreason has good advice. I have very sensitive skin as well and I use the fusion gel she mentioned. I also highly recommend the Gillete Fusion rasors. They give VERY comfortable and close shaves. They JUST released a new one that does a good job but it's not as close as the classic Fusion rasor. That might work well too as an alternative to the classic fusion razor.
I can pretty much just help with shaving the legs: try a feminine shaving cream like Skintimate. It contains aloe and a few other things to help prevent razor burn. It's the only type of shaving cream that I can use without drying my skin out horribly and giving me a burn, and I don't have terribly sensitive skin.
Make-up:
Maybe Bare Minerals or a soft bronzer. She could also go to the mall and to the stores that have the large make-up sections with people and ask them, some of them might be able to help and you can generally get a free sit-down to figure out what would go good.
Clothes:
Well, what type of style does she wear now? She can probably find a similar style in a woman's or junior's section.
Hair style:
I love her hair! I don't think she should change, but that's just me. I think she looks really pretty as is. She also looks easily passable with just a bit of make-up and different outfit.
Thank you for all the advice, Sarah! The sponge idea is one I haven't heard of before! We'll definitely try that out.
As far as therapy and hormones, she is seeing the same therapist I do, but she is not allowed to start hormones until she is more emotionally stable, says our therapist. She's a big one for the waiting game.. She's making both of us wait. But until then, I think everything else suggested is definitely doable.
Covering up her body hair is fairly easy, as the climate where we live is not too hot most of the time. Definitely jeans and a t-shirt weather. But her arms are where her problems lie, long sleeves are a no-no this time of year. It reached 100 degrees Fahrenheit many times this week... Hopefully changing razors and shaving cream as everyone has suggested, and maybe trying out professionally waxing her arms will help.
And to everyone, I showed her this. She is overjoyed, and very flattered. Mission accomplished! I have done my good boyfriend deed for the day <3
Hi Morgan,
Before I was able to have laser hair removal I used dermablend, Its a make up that covers blemished but is really good to cover up the beard shadow after shaving and comes in several colours that match your own pigment.
Hope that helps
Stardust
You are most welcome Morgan.
Do not allow the therapist to make you wait to long or stuff you around. Both of you are adults, so if you want hormones to change your body, then you can make an informed choice on what you want to do. Getting the hormones will make you happy!
I know I was miserable for awhile because I was not taking them. However, since I have been back on them I have been more happier than I have ever been.
Kind regards
Sarah B
PS You are her shinning knight in armour and you most certainly have done your good deed for the day.
Quote from: Sarah B on June 26, 2010, 09:02:19 PM
You are most welcome Morgan.
Do not allow the therapist to make you wait to long or stuff you around. Both of you are adults, so if you want hormones to change your body, then you can make an informed choice on what you want to do. Getting the hormones will make you happy!
I know I was miserable for awhile because I was not taking them. However, since I have been back on them I have been more happier than I have ever been.
Kind regards
Sarah B
I don't know what to do about it.. For me it's because my parents want me to wait. I'm going to be transferring colleges next fall, and for some reason they don't want me starting hormones while still attending this college I'm at now, even though everyone either knows I'm trans or thinks I'm a guy outright. My therapist specifically works with transsexuals, but I don't always feel she works for them, if you know what I mean. She was going to give me my letter of recommendation back in November but when I told my parents they said no, so now she says no and is even going to the extent of having them write up their agreement with her... I don't really get it :/ As for Elaine, I guess I can understand why she is making her wait. She needs to be more emotionally balanced before starting hormones, but I can't help but think that starting HRT will make her more emotionally balanced. I don't know. It's all just really confusing right now.
I'm sorry to hear to hear this.
I would trust your own instincts that the therapist will hinder your progress in obtaining the hormones you need, signing an agreement with your parents would indicate this. It would also seem that your parents are also hindering your progress (they probably still want you as you were), but I sense that you would be able to start them when you go to the other college in the Fall and your parents are paying for it.
If you do not get the hormones at the start of the Fall then I would start considering other options, so that you will be able to achieve what you want in life. For example, see another therapist, get and pay for the hormones yourself. Without your parents knowing about it. But these are things you and you alone will need to carefully consider and weigh up the consequences of following those choices.
Passing for Elaine is the most important thing, so concentrating on that will allow her to be more emotionally stable and allow her to be herself.
Yes things are confusing, because you do not have the knowledge that you need to make the decisions you will need to make, but you have the Internet to find out all the information you will ever need.
I never had Internet when I changed and other sources for information where very scarce, you are lucky in this regard. Once you have the information, you will not be confused.
Kind regards
Sarah B
Okay, I can help with 2 things on this:
For body hair I would definitely suggest the Norelco BodyGroom Pro electric razor. It has variable trim combs similar to the way that hair trimmers do (for buzz cuts, etc), as well as taking those heads off for a VERY close trim, then a final head that is essentially the same thing as a flat-headed electric razor that's essentially the same as as a normal razor.
The advantage to this is that when you don't have time for a full, close shave you can just do a quick trim with the other head to keep the hair down to where it's barely noticeable in a short about of time (especially nice if you have a problem with razor bumps or ingrown hairs).
For clothes, I would recommend going to a Plato's Closet clothing store (if there is one near you) because it is basically a thift store for clothes from Hollister, Aeropostale, American Eagle, Express, ETC...
Definitely check out sites like polyvore.com, chictopia.com (for chic styled things), looklet.com, or lookbook.nu
All those sites are pretty good for just finding clothes and styles on various body types, especially lookbook.
Hope this helped out a little. :D
She passes 100% from that picture and with features like that, she doesn't need to wear make up. Wearing mascara though will make her look even more feminine, it's pretty easy to figure out and fun to put on.
Lots of good advice in the thread, let me take a different tac with some of these...
Quote from: Morgan on June 26, 2010, 03:38:06 PM
My girlfriend, Elaine, wants to start trying to pass in public. But.. neither of us know where to start :(
She recently started shaving, and unfortunately she is very hairy with sensitive skin so... nasty razor burn. She's been getting different advice from everyone, but I think that y'all would know better than the girls at my college, as they don't have to deal with male hair. Right now she shaves with one of those lady razors (it's a nice brand, I bought it for her, but I can't remember the name.) and it works pretty well, but how do you prevent razor burn? She has tried lotioning up like nobody's business, which works kinda, but it's not the end all be all.
Since you said she "recently started" I'm going to guess that its not really the face you are asking about here. There's a lot of good advice here on face shaving in any case and i won't try to add to that - in fact what i am about to say is decidedly NOT for the face.
It would be hard for anyone to be more hairy than i am, naturally. I used to spend almost two hours every other night saving everything. i don't have sensitive skin (except on my lower neck) but it was a huge chore.
what saved me was an epilator. n one else here has recommended it but i do - highly.
YES it hurts like a mofo the first time...in some places it is pretty painful even still (I've been doing it over six months) but in other places it is quite tolerable and on my legs it barely bothers me at all now.
In the places where it grows back, it takes much longer for it to become obvious to others (you can feel it before you see it) and is much like "girl hair" in the sense that even when you know it's there it's light and thin and not "manish" - if I have to I can go a week or more without plucking (though if you do that, you have to put the razor head on and trim it down first - the longer it is the more it hurts).
I buzz over my legs and arms a couple of times a week...I shave down to below my "breasts" while shaving my face in the morning (adds a few minutes, easier than plucking that tender area) and I epilate the other areas I can reach intermittently (I've found that time spent on the john is an excellent opportunity to cover a few square feet).
The drawback is ingrown hairs - I don't really get them anywhere except on the front of my torso and it looks like a bad case of acne sometimes and it's said exfoliation will work them out though I've not had a lot of luck with that - but even if i did something else because I didn't want the bumps, i could still do all of the potentially exposed skin without having that problem.
Mine is a little low-end Remington that I bought on e-bay for less than $40
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Next is how to dress.. She is 21 and very girly IMO. She doesn't know what style she wants, and all she has right now is my hand-me-down shirts (Which are too small) and some pants that we could afford at thrift stores. So basically she is dressing like a 14 year-old. Yikes~ My question here is where do we start when shopping for her? Building up an entire wardrobe is hell for us, it's taken me a whole year just to do mine and it's easier for me because guy clothes are simple. (Jeans and T-shirts, baby!) Also, what styles work best with someone with very little curvature, enhancing and whatnot.
WHERE to shop? Can't beat the Goodwill or similar thrift shop type stores. I sometimes sturuggle because it's hard to find the big sizes but if she can wear "14 year old" type clothes she shouldn't have size issues (except perhaps in shoes)
Also, Wal-Marts often have really good clearance prices on late-season stuff...I've seen stuff as low as the $1-$3 range that I'd die to be able to fit into.
As for HOW to dress - and this applies to the makeup question later too - the best things she can do are two:
1. be observant. Spend days on end sitting in the mall and looking at girls her size. The average person would be surprised at the wide variety of nice "looks" which a girl can choose from at her age.When she's up close to another girl - like some cashier checking her out in a store
she should pay careful attention to how they wear their makeup and jewelry and such - it's a lot more informative of how she needs to look "on the street" than what you see in magazines and such.
Second, and probably more important, identify some "girlfriends" in your circle of acquaintences. level headed but fun GG's that will be accepting and come out to them and ask them to give Elaine a make-over. Get them to take her under their wing and give her clothing and makeup and jewelry advice.
Us middle-aged and older girls don't have that sort of opportunity but college age? My guess is you could find they would be THRILLED to teach her the ropes.Not to mention, the real possibility that they will give her clothes and make-up and stuff that is old to them but which she will treasure and will help quickly build her wardrobe at no cost.
In addition to this - she can go to a Mac counter and the girls there will give her a make-over and take the time to tell her how to do all sorts of things including techniques that trans-girls need that GGs don't. Just don't buy much of their make-up as it will bust your budget.
One other thing - casual reading. when she has time on her hands and access, ladies mags like Redbook or Cosmo or whatever or even cheapos like Woman's World have lots of tips for everything from shaving to skin care to make-up.
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Third problem, BREASTS. Just thinking about buying breastforms makes my wallet hurt ;_; I know of the birdseed and pantyhose fix, but is it really a long-term fix? I can't see us being able to afford breastforms for a long time.. I've also heard of using those enhancers/cup size increaser thingies to make the birdseed fix look more realistically shaped. Is that worth it?
No need hun. While I admit there is SOME issue with movement and such - and certainly their is the psychological factor of their not being "real breasts" in even the very slight sense that silicone forms are, the ones I use are very cheap and very effective (I've had more than one ask me how long I'd been on HRT just because they thought my homemade ones were that real looking.
Here's what you do. first, determine how big she wants them to be. Because I'm a big girl I have to wear mine pretty big (there are not many flat chested fat girls) but you will have to decide - mine are, I guess, basically D cup so you can adjust the amount downward if you want.
You will need one cheap pair of knee-highs, and some plain cheap rice. i use one 16 ounce bag for each form. if you want smaller results you might split one bag to make two.
I put one whole 16 oz bag in one knee high, tie a not and then pull the excess bag over the form to "double bag" it. this does two three things - makes it last longer, makes it a bit firmer, and the knot where you tied it first makes a convincing "nipple" when you turn it in the right position.
Repeat for the other breast form, and when she places them in the bra she needs to be aware of where the "nipple" is. After they are in, if the bra cup is the right size for the bag, you take your hands and flatten the edges of the bag towards the curve of your chest to give them a realistic shape. The rice works very well for me in this. also, they should be situated so that the "high part" is at or slightly below her real nipple - one of the sure signs of fakes is wearing them too high.
if you get it right (bra and bags) you can even get a reasonable "bounce" effect (although not at all as bouncy as real breasts). Again, I have no idea if the stick on breasts ever "feel almost real" to the wearer - but these won't. What they will do is fool a LOT of casual observers. and knowing that will give her a lot more confidence which is the biggest part of passing anyway.
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Makeup is something neither of us know anything about. Before I came out as trans I just wore eyeliner so.. Yeah my advice is pretty awful :c Also she has a hard time getting motivated to pretty herself up. I have a feeling that she thinks it's useless and futile.
Again - girlfriends. if she gets two or three GG friends who are really supportive of her transition, they will teach her everything there is to know...assuming of course they are "girly girls" themselves and not tomboys.
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And then there's the kicker. Coming out. She wants to start passing in my college where we frequently hang out and have many friends. She knows they're okay with me because several know and those who don't would probably be fine with it too. But actually going and doing it is the problem. Should we wait until she is ready to pass, or should we tell them now?
Assuming she is going to transition in a public way (i.e. the same people who knew "Ed" will know he's now Elaine) then I don't think it's necessary for her to wait until she gets to a "convincing" level (albeit, she's pretty enough that one weekend with the girlfriends would have her ready for a photo shoot, IMO)
The key is confidence. WHEN and if she goes into a full time presentation, the MOST important part is that she hold her head up and not let her body language communicate that she's fearful or ashamed about it. If she goes out with the attitude "I'm a girl and you can damned well get used to it" and looks everyone in the eye without shame, she'll have over half the battle won when it comes to "passing"
Remember, those who know her now who interact with her after she goes full time will KNOW she's trans and for the most part know they are expected to respect her presented identity. so passing isn't really an issue with THEM. Passing is about when she faces those who didn't know her before - and the confidence she gets dealing with the familiar faces will be what carries her when she meets new people.
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Should I enforce those who already know to call her by the correct pronouns, or is that asking too much, I mean she's not passing right now or anything.
I don't think "enforce" is the proper attitude but when she commits to going forward, i think as much managing as you can do behind the scenes to strongly suggest to your friends and acquaintances how vital it is to her mental state that they get that right you should do.
no one will enjoy being pressured into an obligation to do it - but most will be happy to be respectful of someones feelings if asked nicely.
But until she really commits, i would be very subtle about it - because folks do find it confusing when you are "neither here nor there"...just plant the seeds and when she steps up and commits to a full time presentation, then remind them "this is what I was talking about - she's scared to death and needs a lot of support"
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Her parents also know, but they don't try to refer to her correctly even though they support her 100% and call me he already and stuff. I know it's different because I'm not their kid, but still. Should we tell them to refer to her correctly too?
Again, gently and with grace - let them know (privately) that "Elaine would never say anything or have you think she was bothered but just between us, i know it would mean the world to her if you would do this for her - I know from experience how much it means to me"
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And lastly, I need someone to back me up on something. Elaine is pretty, in my eyes. And in our friend Mike's too. She's not too fem in the face, she has a thick nose, but very round eyes and a soft jawline and chin.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.tinypic.com%2F2v1n8t2.jpg&hash=dc6757cb4ad9c66365edf0c9a637f2ef2611c18f)
This is a picture I took of her for my photography class, which I photoshoped out her facial hair and thinned her eyebrows because this was before she started getting into plucking. Would you agree with me that if she started wearing makeup that she would pass fairly successfully? Also, do you think she should get bangs? She has a high forehead and I think that like side-swept bangs would help.
She is very pretty! Like I said, let a few girlfriends have a makeover party and she cold pass anywhere. I'd wager that with very little more than what is showing in that picture - a bit of curve on the breasts, concealed beard (I'm assuming since you said you shopped it out) just a bit of blush and such and fem clothes and jewelery - that almost no one would give a thought to suspicion that she was trans.
All she needs really is confidence - and that will come once she looks in the mirror and really sees Elaine in all her glory instead of the insecurities about passing she has now.
Can't offer advice but she's really pretty to me. I don't see why she would need makeup.
a bit of makeup helps most women
to get nice looking boobs go look for a GelBra...not sure who wil stock those in USA but someone will.
Quote from: SilverFang on June 27, 2010, 02:59:13 AM
Can't offer advice but she's really pretty to me. I don't see why she would need makeup.
Well, if you start with a pretty face and then add a little interest or excitement here or there, you'd be amazed how nice you can look! To me, the nicest makeup is when it doesn't really look like makeup, it's just
you. Having said that, though ... if you study women's faces and look at what they're doing to pretty themselves up, you'll see more makeup than you ever noticed before. That's my experience, anyway.
On the other hand, doing it badly is almost bound to be worse than not doing it at all!
*** Jenna ***
(Blogging about gender at jennawillow.wordpress.com)
Thank you so much for that literal MOUND OF INFORMATION Laura! :o :D
We looked at epilators and will probably end up getting either the one you suggested or one similar. Though, she complains about simply plucking her eyebrows XD Gives me the most sour look when I tell her to go do so. She's a good sport though :)
And I guess 'enforcing' wasn't quite the word I was looking for. More like 'suggest'. And 'remind'. She has two friends that aren't sure whether to call her 'her' yet to her face (One does when talking to me on the phone, but not so much in person), and that guy is one I can go ahead and give the 'ok' to do so, because I know him well enough. The other friend is her choice, when that time comes.
As for her parents, I'll try. They're older, and have a lot on their plate as it is. Whether I'll be successful is still up in the air but I'll see about talking to them about it.
And something else occurred to me, when she gets nervous or scared, like when she's around a bunch of men, she puts on a face. Meaning, she starts to act manly, I guess to protect herself. Has anyone else found themselves doing this, ever? I try to elbow her when she's doing it, but it seems to be a hard habit to kick.
She is just trying to protect herself. We learn to do it. Try holding her hand, or put your arm around her to protect her. She should soften up and begen to drop the mask.
Quote from: Morgan on June 27, 2010, 05:24:56 PM
And something else occurred to me, when she gets nervous or scared, like when she's around a bunch of men, she puts on a face. Meaning, she starts to act manly, I guess to protect herself. Has anyone else found themselves doing this, ever?
Only all my life.
*** Jenna ***
I have sensitive skin to shaving. I always broke out, and when I started HRT it got even worse.
Then one of the wonderful transwomen I have met here sugested that I try a product called Shave Secret.
No more shaving bumps and skin abrasions for me. My neck is smooth as a womans should be.
As to makeup...She doesnt need it, but it helps the self feel like passing is happening. So it can be theraputic. I did it the trial and error way over the years in the closet with my girlfriends make up then some stuff I swiped. lol
There are some good videos out there that show how to do make up. Just need to have google skills too find them.
We've tried a few things suggested her in the last week. Um, shave secret is awesome, she has been talking about it non stop to all our friends! I keep telling her that that's weird but she's just so excited lol!
We got her two 36c bras and did the rice-hose thing and it looks AMAZING. She looked so good~ It's a shame I only got to see her like that for a few minutes in the bathroom. We got her a new shirt too, that looks really good on her. It all really boosted her confidence.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi29.tinypic.com%2F2cfsbgy.jpg&hash=5bf69d76a36ed5bfbfaf886aebfa2f060bb4ea57)
My camera on my phone sucks.. It looked a bit better IRL.
I bought her foundation that actually matched her skin tone (Instead of the hand-me-down that I gave her, my skin is more yellow and tan than hers so it didn't look right...) and I got her some mascara. What brands they are, I forgot.. Nothing special. Like clinique or something -shrug-
I do have a question about her breasts, now, though. They don't... move right? I'm not sure how to put it. They don't bounce. Would putting those bust enhancer gel insert things help? I know it would help shape it, it took us a bit to get them boob-shaped. I don't think the no-bouncing thing is too big a deal, but if there IS a fix, that would be awesome.
Thank you again, everyone! This has been so much help. She seems alot more confident even in this short amount of time.
Confidence does wonders. I really can't help with the breast forms things but I'm glad you are standing behind her, or more like with her.
From my experience, they will never move RIGHT but i have found that i can get SOME "bounce" by having bags that are somewhat smaller than the cup size of the bra, which gives them the opportunity to move a bit in the right situations - like going down steps for instance.
But no, they don't bounce right.
it will take some sort of liquid or thin gel to get that and i've not heard good suggestions for how you make a liquid filled breast without risking bursting if you bump them too hard.
i got one suggestion early on about putting shampoo in plastic bags but i never got those to look right and feel secure....and i tried putting shampoo in "double sack" balloons (and then in single sack just to be sure) and i could never get the shampoo to stretch the balloon out the way water does - I eventually gave up.
some smart cookie ought to invent a "breast balloon" that could be filled with, for instance, gelatin, which would be realitively cheap and would achive a similar effect to the expensive forms.
Looks like everyone has covered mostly everything. I think I'll try reccomending using hard waxes for the face.
SurgiWax found beauty supplies like Sally's... Get the type for brazilian or sensitive areas its a nasty green color (never get the yellowish kind) This stuff is awesome for doing ones face, since shes photoshopped in that pic to get rid of the darkening.
The surgiwas is stripless... so you can do really small areas (Id recommend starting off with quarter sized patches) It hurts like hell as first, but if you keep ontop of it, 1 the hair starts growing back thinner and finer, 2 it doesn't take nearly as long to do, and 3 hurts less. The nice thing about this is you don't have too worry about that nasty undergrowth....
Also added benifit, using stripless wax lets you grab the hairs when they are allot shorter than a normal stripped wax does. This helped allot when I was early in transition. Hope it helps.
PS your therepist sounds like a (BLEEEP) how can a TS be stable with out HRT? I couldn't even hold a job more than 2 or 3 months prior to starting....
The proportions look good. That's 99% of the battle really.
Not sure how breasts are suppose to move. Most girls I know tend to like them to behave and keep still. :D
Quote from: LauraHopesome smart cookie ought to invent a "breast balloon" that could be filled with, for instance, gelatin, which would be realitively cheap and would achive a similar effect to the expensive forms.
Oh.... the things I've done to try and make false boobs cheap!
I even made a breast shaped mould out of motor-car body filler and made my own out of liquid latex. In fact, only just unearthed that mould and threw it away last week!
.... anyway..... an alternative to shampoo is glycerine - cheap and readily available from the chemist :)
I just wanted to say that WOW she's very pretty!!!!
This has been a good topic. Lots of good ideas here.
I thought I would list my routine stuff here as well. Maybe it will give you some more ideas to try.
First off, the shaving. You're actually better off using a men's razor. I don't know how many makeup books recommend them over women's razors. Women's razors are designed to not nick the skin as much and can be used more quickly on sparse hair. Men's razors get a closer shave against more hair, and they actually help exfoliate. I have been using a Gillette Mach 3, which is expensive when you buy the cartridges. However, if you make sure to rinse it really well and tap it (and even blow on it with a sharp breath) so that it's as dry as possible, then keep it up where it won't get wet in between, then the blades will last a lot longer and it will be worth it. That goes with any razor, actually. I have also been really happy with Gillette gel for sensitive skin. It's cheap and works well for me. The technique I use is to shave well with the direction of the hair, then go back over it against the hair. That will give you a very good shave. Just be sure to use a good blade. I would recommend having a second dedicated razor for that. Irritation is an issue, but it can be dramatically decreased by using a good blade.
Body hair- Other than shaving, you can also make your own sugaring supplies for dirt cheap. Simply make some caramel and take it to the hard ball stage. If you get it to the right stage, you won't even need muslin strips. You can just soften it enough when you work it with your hands, and peel it off after you apply it. If you don't get it quite firm enough, just use some muslin with it and it won't go to waste. For cleanup, simply follow it with a damp cloth. Here's a recipe to use:
In a non-reactive stainless sauce pan add:
3 cups sugar, 1 cup water.
Slowly bring to heat and do not stir! If you must stir, use stainless only and do not reuse. It can cause the sugar to crack. If (when) it starts to foam gently squeeze a slice of 1-2 lemons over it, just enough to break the foam and avoid getting any of the lemon solids in it. Even if it doesn't foam (LOL) you may still want to add the lemon. It gives it a nice scent.
Clothes- Can't really help there too much. Almost all the good suggestions are already listed. One other place to look is eBay, and just keep an eye out for some really good deals, but it can be very time consuming. Just a bit of advice for choices: I personally recommend going with dark solids or vertical stripes if she has wide shoulders. Also v-necks or button ups. She can layer over a camisole for color. Until she figures herself out though, she will probably gravitate toward younger clothing. I know I did. Maybe you can pick her wardrobe foundation the first time and only give her veto power over your choices, since you *had* to wear the stuff and are less emotionally invested in it. Then she can start adding with her own personal style.
Breasts- I would skip the foam. I have never been happy with it. Birdseed or lentils work really well. I prefer the silicone, though. The thing is that you can get it for a lot less than you seem to be thinking. Go to ebay and buy from a reputable seller. You can take her up two sizes for less than $30 US (plus shipping costs). Well worth it. As for the gelatin that somebody recommended, that may be a possibility. I know that for special effects appliances it would be unsuitable because it melts easily and can't be reused (it melts under stage lighting, even). However that may work to your advantage for precisely that reason. Maybe put it in tough balloons? If you need to reshape them, you might be able to redo them with a hair dryer on low and some patience. You may also try the Slime you can put in tires in case they go flat, or maybe some homemade silly putty from borax and Elmer's school glue. Most other special FX supplies like cold foam and silicone are too expensive and technically difficult (unless you like playing with vacuum tables and whatnot).
General body shaping- I don't have much to add except she can use an ace bandage around the belly to give the illusion of an hourglass figure. Padding I haven't had much luck with except hips with some foam cut to the shape of Africa and tapered to blend, worn under thigh-length control panties. Since she plans on transitioning permanently, she may want to do things like pilates targeting the obliques and glutes, or yoga to lengthen the muscles and give a more slender appearance.
Makeup- Since this post is already way too long (sorry about that), I'll just list a couple of TG-specific things. For the beard area she needs to correct the blue (I see very little in the pic, but it's been photoshopped). The books say to correct that with red, but the best advice I have read is to use a matte (not frost) salmon lipstick. When you use red, it doesn't come out as close to a flesh tone as it does with salmon. If that isn't enough, you need to get some good coverage foundation. You can get Kryolan stick foundation for $10-15 US or look for "scar cover" or camouflage foundation on ebay or a search engine. As for the nose, just use a little contour powder or bronzing powder. Also a touch of blush on the forehead and chin does wonders overall. General skincare is recommended as well. Exfoliate and tone. It doesn't seem like much, but I have seen it do wonders. Women generally have better skin and smaller pores.
As for her pic, she is really pretty and really passable.
Anyways, I hope some of this stuff helps. Good luck!
*Edit* Changed hard crack to hard ball. Big difference. Sorry.
QuoteGeneral body shaping- I don't have much to add except she can use an ace bandage around the belly to give the illusion of an hourglass figure.
corset.
At least, so I've read.
i suppose someone here probably has experience with this so i may get corrected, but the story goes that a tightly worn corset, worn constantly, "retrains" your midsection to a more hourglass shape (I would try it if i ever got the massive roll out of the way)
Quote from: Laura Hope on July 13, 2010, 08:05:47 PM
corset.
At least, so I've read.
The problem is that a decent corset is expensive, especially for waist training. We're talking in the realm of $100 US and up. Ace bandage- $5 US. Hourglass figure while out on the town- priceless. Oh god, I really wrote that bad joke didn't I? Where's the Delete butto