So pre-T, my voice was lower than normal, but not in the normal adult male range. I sounded like I was 13 and still got read as not male if I spoke, sometimes. Most times I'd just confuse people when I spoke cause my voice was very androgynous.
Now at 7 weeks, when I speak if anybody had any doubt in their mind of what gender I was before I spoke, they 99.9% of the time go with male, even if it's a doctor or someone who's had to see my ID. I'm sure my voice passes just fine. So fine that the IRS refused to set up a payment plan for me on the phone cause they thought I was trying to access someone else's account even after I explained the situation. It's pretty deep for only being 7 weeks and it's dropped faster than I expected. If I manage to get a vid posted I'll post it to show my voice.
However, I'm having alot of confidence issues with passing currently and want to get your opinion.
How do you think a passable/not passable voice affects your passing? If someone doesn't read you as male, then you speak, do they correct themselves? How often does this happen? When you personally are trying to figure out if a person is male or female, how much do you rely on voice to tell which they are?
I think that even if you had on makeup, btu had a super deep voice they would just think you were a guy with makeup
and I have seen a video you posted, your face totally passes man, no worries
Voice affects it hardcore for me, but I'm pre T. Recently I was up at the shop getting some Dr Pepper and scratch cards and the guy behind the counter went, "hey boy" and then when I lifted my head and said Hi! really happily he got all confused and flustered and didn't know what to do.
If I had been feeling depressed I would've been bummed. But I was in a good mood, so I laughed all the way home.
Overall though, my voice ruins passing for me. I don't think I will really pass til T.
Its funny you bring this up because yesterday i had to be a delivery driver for the night at work because someone called out. Literally i passed at every house until i spoke. One guy was like hey man so i said hey back and he was like ohhh im soo sorry. i was like no really trust me its ok. he still felt so bad he left me a ten dollar tip for a 15 dollar pizza. haha i just though it was funny. i was a little disappointed that my voice gave me away, but i was very happy to be called a boy the whole night!
Quote from: michaeljay33 on July 03, 2010, 01:36:40 AM
Its funny you bring this up because yesterday i had to be a delivery driver for the night at work because someone called out. Literally i passed at every house until i spoke. One guy was like hey man so i said hey back and he was like ohhh im soo sorry. i was like no really trust me its ok. he still felt so bad he left me a ten dollar tip for a 15 dollar pizza. haha i just though it was funny. i was a little disappointed that my voice gave me away, but i was very happy to be called a boy the whole night!
Haha! Nice! At least he gave you a big tip. :D
I dont understand it with my job. I'm on the phones for like 10 hours and i can get called sir, young gentleman, buddy, and all the rest for say 10 calls on the trot and then on the 11th i'll get a bloke calling me love or sweetheart. Does my voice suddenly change between calls?
Interesting. Elijah, that was an old video. If my friend ever posts my new video I'll post it. My voice has dropped even more. I wasn't satisfied with my voice at the time that video was made. To me, it wasn't male yet.
Al james....I used to work for a call center as a customer rep for Dish Network. When we answered, we had to say our first name. They let me say my male name. So 99.9% of the time I was called he but some customers didn't understand me cause I stutter and stuff and back then I was pre-T too...so it sucked, and it hurt when they didn't use the male pronouns (the customers). But voice changes on the phone, you have to remember that. No one sounds the same in person as they do on the phone.
Yeah i'll have to remember that the next time i throw the phone across the
office :D
Ha. I just about threw the phone across the room when my dentist called this week to confirm an appointment, asked for my legal name and I'm like no...they're not here. Sorry. K thx bye. And I mentally stab my legal name on paper. It's the enemy right now.
Quote from: elvistears on July 02, 2010, 07:25:42 PM
Overall though, my voice ruins passing for me. I don't think I will really pass til T.
^This!^
The other day I went to get my hair cut. My normal barber is away with a broken foot, so I went somewhere else. I walked into the place and the lady at reception said "Hi, how are you today" (no indication of how she gendered me yet) and I replied "good, how are you?" yadda yadda, had a seat to wait my turn.
Then a lady came out from the back and said to the receptionist "did you help him yet?" (gesturing towards me), and the first lady was like "oh, *she* is just waiting for a haircut, you can take *her*" {grumble grumble}
There was a lot of other awkwardness during the haircut, like having to convince her that *yes* I really did want my sideburns cut straight across (like she couldn't tell from how they were already freakin' cut??), and *yes* my name is James, not Jane (she thought she misheard, then when I tried to correct her, confusion ensued...). And at the end she charged me the women's rate, which is more than the men's rate. Even though I got a decidedly men's cut (which I've been getting for a year, so it's not like I was starting with long hair that would've made sense to charge more to cut).
I didn't fight it (which I could've done by showing my carry letter which I keep on me at all times), because I was by then in a really grumpy mood and I just didn't want to deal with it. The thing is, my regular barber was a little awkward at first, but he didn't make a big deal about it, you could tell that he was trying to figure out what to make of my gender, but he treated me respectfully, didn't try to force the issue, and charged me men's rates, since no matter what gender head he thought he was working on, he obviously realized that a men's cut is a men's cut and should be charged thusly.
Whereas this lady was trying to forcefully resist seeing me as a guy, even though when I first walked in she called me "him"... But after that she did everything she could to try and push the issue. Why do people insist on doing that? Why can't more people be like my barber who just take it easy even if they don't totally understand it?
Anyhow, sorry for angsting all over the thread. But yeah, my voice is the bane of my existence right now. I "mentally stab" it all the freakin' time...
Wow. No, it's cool. You should see the angst I spit out most of the time, on my LJ. Lol. It'll get better dude. Have you tried training yourself to speak lower? I would've fought being charged the wrong price, too...but again, I didn't have as much guts to speak up for myself when I was mistaken for the wrong gender pre-T cause my voice was still....androgynous. Now I don't hesitate at all.
My voice is definitely not androgynous, it's very feminine. And I've considered in the past trying to train it lower (and worked on it in private for a couple of months actually), but it just felt wrong to me. It felt like I was trying too hard (for my comfort, I don't disparage anyone else who is comfortable doing so). I definitely will fight it once I'm on T and feel that I have more ability to do so. Right now though, it's just so hard to fight against when physically nothing has changed yet. Boo-urns.
I've been grinding my teeth being called miss/ma'am over the phone, and I've had quite a lot of it recently due to having to call so many places to get my name changed on many things. I was talking to my therapist about this and he said, well, even if you don't visually pass or audibly pass yet, you should still feel you have the right to politely ask people to NOT call you miss/ma'am.
So, today, I had to do yet another call and the customer service rep was polite but was immediately calling me 'Miss Lastname' and ma'am. I paused and said, "Please do not call me miss." He asked how he should address me and I said, "Mister, please." There was a very long pause and he replied, "...Mister Lastname?" "Yes." "You're... Mister Lastname?" "Yes." "... I do apologise for the earlier mix-up, Mister Lastname." And then our call continued.
It felt nice, and I know in a few (or several) months, my voice will pass on its own.
Quote from: M.Grimm on July 03, 2010, 10:46:20 PM
So, today, I had to do yet another call and the customer service rep was polite but was immediately calling me 'Miss Lastname' and ma'am. I paused and said, "Please do not call me miss." He asked how he should address me and I said, "Mister, please." There was a very long pause and he replied, "...Mister Lastname?" "Yes." "You're... Mister Lastname?" "Yes." "... I do apologise for the earlier mix-up, Mister Lastname." And then our call continued.
It felt nice, and I know in a few (or several) months, my voice will pass on its own.
this is awesome
I was blessed with a very deep voice for a female-bodied person. It's even deeper than some male-bodied people that I have met. But sadly, it still doesn't pass. Friends and family that talk to me on the phone are always mistaking me for my mother or sister, but people's voices sound different over the phone.
It bums me out a little bit that to make my voice more passable, I have to speak very monotone. I like speaking with lots of expression because it makes it more interesting to other people, but it makes me sound too feminine.
Voice training isn't too hard though and doesn't take much time to do.
I always have problems with the bus and people in shops and that. I got trained pretty hardcore to be polite, so I get this squeaky good girl thing happening. It's mostly because I used to be super shy, so I got all these little service routines programmed in.
It's like if I just grunt, I feel rude. But then I just end up going, One cheeseburger combo please! Thank you! And could I get that to takeaway please?
Maybe it wouldn't sound so girly if I had the right voice.
voice does seal the deal. about a year and a half ago i didn't pass at all look-wise because...frankly i hadnt gotten it figured out yet, it felt like an androgynous/male look to me but yeah.....anyways, during that time i never passed with people who just saw me but hadn't talked to me....as soon as i said a word they regarded me as a guy.
by now i pass with some people right away when i haven't spoken, but due to my long hair and very skinny frame, some people do still get confused. voice changes it all for the better for me.
cashiers that will not meet my eye in the beginning become utterly friendly after i say hi.
saturday i walked into the male bathroom at a bar and there were two very drunk ***holes at the urinals, guy1 just caught a glimpse of me from behind (full head of shoulder-length hair) and shouted "was that a giiiirl?" in his drunken stupor....guy2 was telling him "no" but he kept talking about it.....they were still at the sinks when i left the stall and ran into a friend there and we started talking....and on their way out i could hear guy2 making fun of guy1 for seeing "girls" in the mens room.
so yeah, voice IS a major issue. it just doesn't help you pass with random strangers in public places...so even though i pass to people within earshot, i can still sometimes see girls talking about me at the other end of a room :-\
Quote from: elvistears on July 06, 2010, 06:06:24 PM
I always have problems with the bus and people in shops and that. I got trained pretty hardcore to be polite, so I get this squeaky good girl thing happening. It's mostly because I used to be super shy, so I got all these little service routines programmed in.
It's like if I just grunt, I feel rude. But then I just end up going, One cheeseburger combo please! Thank you! And could I get that to takeaway please?
Maybe it wouldn't sound so girly if I had the right voice.
ME. TOO.
And my voice automatically gets really sing-songy when I'm being polite or when I'm feeling enthusiastic about something (which frequently coincide-- the more enthusiastic I am, the more polite my speech becomes). It's kind of terrible... yet at the same time, I really value both my politeness and my enthusiasm. I can't just get rid of them. Hopefully I'll sound less rediculous after I start T... until then, I'll just look forward to the day when I sound like a cheerful gentleman instead of a bubbly young lady.
Quote from: Crow on July 06, 2010, 06:47:31 PM
ME. TOO.
And my voice automatically gets really sing-songy when I'm being polite or when I'm feeling enthusiastic about something (which frequently coincide-- the more enthusiastic I am, the more polite my speech becomes). It's kind of terrible... yet at the same time, I really value both my politeness and my enthusiasm. I can't just get rid of them. Hopefully I'll sound less rediculous after I start T... until then, I'll just look forward to the day when I sound like a cheerful gentleman instead of a bubbly young lady.
I used to hate my voice pre transition because I thought it sounded so dismal and expressionless compared to my female friends. It worked to my advantage when I was pre T. But now my voice is deeper people tell me I have quite a cheerful voice, which is weird because I don't think I'm speaking any differently.
Voice definately is the biggest indicator for me though, since I just get confused by looking at people now.
Grimm: that's really awesome. I'm totally in admiration of the balls that took. I never correct people, even when I should (see my post above about the stupid hairdresser I should've corrected...). I'm working on getting up the nerve to correct people, mentally first, then in real life. lol
Elvis: me too. I tend to be polite and while not "talkative" perse (to strangers at least), I still feel rude when I just nod or whatnot, so I tend to speak and then feel like crap afterward because I "outed" myself. Gah, such a catch 22! :(
When my voice just started changing and I wasn't completely comfortable with it and thought it wasn't deep enough, I had that monotone. I was afraid I'd be monotone forever even with a deep voice. Then it dropped again this time to the extremely male range. And now I can use more expression when I talk cause I don't squeak or sound high pitched.
I'm in a study for transmen on T...I called the guy to ask a question and he's like "is this your second reading or your last....?" I'm like "second, ha." it made me momentarily happy that even another transguy was surprised that my voice was that deep already. I'm still heckling my friend to post my youtube video. When she does I'll post it to show my voice.
I psych myself out too much when it comes to passing (obviously). Seems the deeper my voice gets the more confused people get when they have to see my ID. I'm waiting for the first time someone denies it's my ID and threatens to call the cops. Ha.
Quote from: Yakshini on July 04, 2010, 11:55:24 PMI like speaking with lots of expression because it makes it more interesting to other people, but it makes me sound too feminine.
You might have to give this up if you go on T...my voice shifted yet again, and now when I speak expressively, I squeak or wobble or cut out entirely. Embarrassing. I'm having to learn to talk all over again. And sing. Gah.
This time, my voice didn't go down much at all. Mostly I lost range, and I didn't gain as much as I lost. Guess that's life.
Yeah, i just wanna stab my voice sometimes, haha. But i am lucky in that it is in the deeper range of the female register. I've definitely passed with it. Although that's simply because I'm easily taken for a 15/16 year old boy. Being at college is totally different. I can pass there, but it's harder, cuz college guys are physically more masculine and noticeably developed (usually). So in that environment, my looks and voice are more likely to get me classified as female.
Since we're sharing voice stories, at college i'm walkin into the library to renew a book i borrowed. At this point I'm definitely passing physically (to those who don't know me)...and then I speak to the guy XD It was funny, the look on his face. Cuz I forgot about keeping my voice more masculine, and was actually higher than normal (I was still attempting to develop the habit). He gave me this shocked/confused expression and there was this lapse of silence before he responded. So yes, voice is important XD But if you have a more ambiguous voice, then I think physical presentation and body language should tip the scales towards a masculine reading.
More and more I'm getting frustrated with my voice though, because I know it's not a guy's voice and it just feels so limited n wrong.
And about correcting people as was previously talked about...yeah. that takes quite a bit of nerve. I only correct people who know about me (excluding family). Even when I'm sure a person will be okay with the correction, I still can't bring myself to say anything. If I see said person semi-frequently it gets irritating and I half hope the irritation will grow to the point where I'm like "Screw this" and just start tellin people that I aint a girl. I don't know why, but I feel like I don't have the right to correct a person as I am now. Like I have nothing to back it up with or somethin. It's hard.
^ Irritation does help. Once I became more irritated with people slipping when I passed more that's what caused me to tell them about it. When I get irritated that's usually the breaking point.
Oh! I just remembered a funny voice-related story.
Some years ago in high school I was in Competetive One-Act plays. I was presenting as female at the time, and the cast only had three people that were physically male. I got a part in the chorus, which consisted entirely of bio-girls. So the director asked two of the chorus members to dress and act as men. Of course, I jumped at the chance (as did another person who ended up eventually dating me. She now performs as a drag king with the name Oliver Clothesoff :p). The play we did was Wiley and the Hairy Man, and the chorus was just a bunch of hillbillies. We bound our chests, got fake facial hair, and wore ridiculous outfits. During our first competition, our play won first place. The performers from the other plays came to shake hands with us, someone congratulated me and I said thank you. They immediately yelled out, "Oh my god! You're a woman!"
I still have pictures of me in my costume. :P
I think it does seal the deal, so to speak.
I had a passing failure at a certain electronics store last week, where I made an appointment to talk with one of the, erm, geniuses, and he greeted me with "Hey, man." He held out his hand for a firm handshake, then I went for his hand, thinking All right. I just passed. 8) and I said "Hey" in my naturally wimpy voice.
And then, in 90's speak, he totally siked me out. And said, "Aw, I'm so sorry, hun." >:(
I did weasel some free headphones out from him, though.